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One of the major flaws of this species is that we don't do anything inconvenient, that requires global agreement, until it becomes literally an existential thre
by Florin_Andrei 9y ago
One of the major flaws of this species is that we don't do anything inconvenient, that requires global agreement, until it becomes literally an existential threat. And even then we may dither, and there will be special interests that will keep spreading out misinformation about it, etc.
Seriously, the "sapiens" part in the name of our species is a bit of an exaggeration.
- microcolonel 9y ago> Seriously, the "sapiens" part in the name of our species is a bit of an exaggeration. Compared to what? I think you should be happy with what you've got, because it's the best we've ever seen. I'm happier with a species that could burn out, than one that could do no wrong. If there was a problem, yo, we'll solve it.
- Florin_Andrei 9y agoCompared to the freaking brink of annihilation that we walk to every time there's an opportunity to do so.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- mirimir 9y agoI'm reminded of Stephenson's Seveneves.
- cholmon 9y agomy first thought as well
- moultano 9y agoI would have never imagined that a book about the utter obliteration of the world could be so hopeful.
- mirimir 9y agoIndeed. I'd say more, but spoilers.
- Florin_Andrei 9y agoI'm a licensed HAM radio operator, but I'm too young to have gone through the Morse era. One of the things that book did for me was kindling my interest in learning to transmit and receive Morse. I mean, you never know when you might need it, right? :)
- brightsize 9y agoI'm a Ham too and I'm wondering if it might be a good time to assemble a crystal radio - no power needed.
- mirimir 9y agoI recently read D.O.D.O., and I'm convinced that it's in the same literary world as Anathem and Seveneves. I won't say more, but do read D.O.D.O., if you've otherwise liked Stephenson's work.
- googletazer 9y agoConsidering that research shows that every human existed today is descended from a small group that survived the Ice Age in Madagascar, I wouldn't call it a flaw. More like a self-regulating system that adjusts to behaviors where every independent actor is out for themselves.
- api 9y agoThis isn't a flaw in the species. It's a consequence of game theory and evolution and would likely be found in any species that was a product of evolution.
- amelius 9y agoYes, this is one of the explanations of the Fermi paradox.
- api 9y agoI was discussing that with a friend once and I argued that a more intelligent species might fare worse in these matters. It would more rapidly and aggressively exploit its environment due to higher intelligence and would therefore run a greater risk of triggering catastrophic environmental events. The problem is that there is no game theoretic advantage in cooperating to reduce CO2 unless everyone cooperates. If one large player (e.g. USA or China) or many small players do not cooperate then the incentive flips and it's actually in everyone's best interest to defect. If catastrophic climate change is going to happen anyway then you are better off burning as much CO2 as you want to build up your economy so you have a better chance of mitigating the damage. It's basically a variation on the prisoner's dilemma scenario.
- CountSessine 9y agoI guess someone didn't like hearing what you said, but you're absolutely right. Global agreements are coordination problems; there's an incentive to violate them, discretely at least. And there's a cost to genuinely comply with the agreement while others are clandestinely violating it.
- Florin_Andrei 9y agoIt took me a couple seconds to realize how utterly pessimistic that statement is.
- baddox 9y agoPerhaps a singular consciousness could evolve that wouldn't have the inherent game theoretical problems that groups of conscious individuals have.
- simonh 9y agoTo be fair to us we are only just barely sentient. In evolutionary terms we have literally only just managed to build a technological society. Therefore it stands to reason we only recently evolved sufficient intelligence to do so. Otherwise we'd have done it sooner. In the grand scheme of things we're on the very lowest bottom level of the sentience hierarchy.
- gooseus 9y agoThat's fair, but it'll be sad to see our species added to the dustbin of history after squandering such a great opportunity to move from planetary to stellar civilization. If there happen to be any other sentient species watching us, I can only assume they spend most of the time face-palming, head-shaking and eye-rolling.
- colordrops 9y ago> I can only assume they spend most of the time face-palming, head-shaking and eye-rolling Or they see us as a natural phenomenon following similar patterns to other fledgling civilizations. We don't roll our eyes when a pathogen is so virulent it kills its host before it propagates.
- ams6110 9y agoMaybe there aren't any. Maybe all sentient species self-destruct when they discover and start developing technology but don't understand all the implications. There's a theory along these lines that explains why we've never found any signs of extraterrestrial intelligent life.
- MoOmer 9y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter
- ams6110 9y agoYes. I actually subscribe to the idea that local maxima at a lower level if sentience is much more common. We'd probably still be a dinosaur-populated planet if not for a random asteroid.
- losteric 9y agoHave we ever done something that requires global agreement?
- redcalx 9y agoCFC ban?
- joshmaker 9y agoThe Montreal Protocol was a successful international treaty to protect the Ozone Layer, so there is some precedence for countries coming together to protect our environment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol
- mturmon 9y agoApproximately all nations, the Nuclear test ban treaty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Nuclear-Test-Ban_Treaty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Nuclear-Test-Ban...)
- praneshp 9y agoI kind of disagree with this one. The number is high, but a bunch of countries haven't signed it (As of 2016, eight Annex 2 states have not ratified the treaty: China, Egypt, Iran, Israel and the United States have signed but not ratified the Treaty; India, North Korea and Pakistan have not signed it.) [[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Nuclear-Test-Ban_Treaty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Nuclear-Test-Ban...
- ghrifter 9y agoCFC global ban in the 90s - http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/this-week-in-history-banning-cfcs-and-saving-the-ozone-layer-took-a-global-effort http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/this-week-in-history...
- ams6110 9y agoTrue, but there was a ready substitute. When have we ever had a global agreement that required real sacrifice?
- guelo 9y agoIt's a prisoner's dilemma type problem. Unless you can get everybody to agree then the rational thing to do is to use as much carbon as you can to stay ahead of the other guys.
- Florin_Andrei 9y ago> the rational thing Perhaps that indicates that reason itself has some hardcoded fundamental limits.
- tajen 9y agoThe hard limit is just that the ones who survive survive. And the reasonable people die. The reasonable are those who don't consume more resources than their environment provides.
- vacri 9y agoIt's not a prisoner's dilemma at all. There are plenty of humans trying to change, and several countries. Herein lies the problem with game theory - it reduces human behaviour to absurdly simplistic levels.
- jacquesm 9y ago> Seriously, the "sapiens" part in the name of our species is a bit of an exaggeration. I think that was meant to point to the individuals, not the species as a whole and that's exactly what causes this problem. But we're working on the hive mind as we speak.