28 ms·

Dangers of Sitting

184 points by petethomas 9y ago

jonbaer 9y ago
And not one mention of developing blood clots
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  Or hemorrhoids.
- jpindar 9y ago
  I have one of those under-desk exercise bikes. I don't know if it has any overall effect on my health, but it keeps the circulation going anyway. I definitely recommend this particular model. It's smooth and quiet, works under a normal height desk, and is heavy enough that it doesn't slide around. https://www.amazon.com/DeskCycle-Exercise-Pedal-Exerciser-White/dp/B00B1VDNQA/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1503499919&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=deskcycle++exercise&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/DeskCycle-Exercise-Pedal-Exerciser-Wh...
delias_ 9y ago
I have an adjustable desk. It's really nice to be able to move around throughout the day, but for any thoughtful task that requires some amount focus, I have to sit. I'd like to read further collectively inconclusive research about that.
- degenerate 9y ago
  I have the exact same issue. I recently moved to an adjustable desk, and writing emails is fine standing up. It's when I need to have a 2-3 hour coding session that I must sit down or I can't focus. I am wondering if this is learned behavior or if sitting down fosters creativity in some way. I'd love to see some science on it too.
  - ioquatix 9y ago
    It took me 6 months to make the switch. My standing desk has two computers, 2 keyboards, and 3 screens, soon to be more. I have both systems set up for working on different parts of the same project. I work for an hour on one, walk to the other, do some different work. Switching to this kind of setup was both physical and mental. It was taxing assuming the right posture after years of sitting. My back isn't quite right, but it's a lot better now. Mentally speaking, sometimes I need to sit - I just can't do a certain thing standing up or I'm mentally exhausted and it starts manifesting physically. I actually sit on the floor now, it's uncomfortable and encourages me to stand after a while. So, the net result is, I've incorporated both mental and physical movement into my work and life.
- gnl 9y ago
  Adjustable desk owner here as well - while it's great and I wouldn't want to miss it [1], I also have a bar stool with a backrest, so I can easily transition between standing and sitting in a second. I also often find sitting conducive to thinking, but then again sometimes I feel most focused when walking around the room. It's hard to put my finger on what it depends on exactly, but it seems to me that often when I have no idea how to approach a problem, I like to sit or lie down, roll it around in my mind, maybe look at the code/the application and let possible solutions come to me. When I already have a basic idea of what direction to go in, I like to walk around in front of my desk while I work out the details (= talk them over with myself) and then type/write standing. It almost seems as if the natural action for a physical destination (not standing around like an idiot until I know where I want to go, then starting to walk and finding my way there as soon as I do) helps with the corresponding thought processes involved in reaching a purely mental destination. Regarding the physical aspect - over the last years of transitioning to and experimenting with a standing a desk I have had phases where I spent hours standing, phases where I went back to sitting most of the time and phases where I had a balance between the two. My personal experience seems to match the anecdotal evidence I've encountered as well as what seems to be the scientific consensus (oiling of joints and lymphatic circulation both rely on movement, among other things), which is that the human body simply isn't designed for spending long periods of time in a single static position. Spending hours standing tends to hurt my feet and knees, spending hours sitting makes my back unhappy. Constantly switching between the two and walking around the room in between makes long sessions of working on a computer much less taxing on the body by far and it makes perfect sense to me that the accumulative effect of this over the course of years and decades will make a difference to my quality of life down the line (in addition to the immediate effects I'm experiencing often after only a single day of doing one or the other). Another thing I've noticed - giving myself the option to easily switch positions, forcing myself to do it for a while with a timer and paying attention to how it feels, lead to me being aware of becoming restless in a single position after a while and noticing the beginning discomfort in parts of the body, which I only used to notice when they were already hurting after hours standing or sitting. I don't use a timer anymore, by now I just listen to my body telling me when it's time to move my arse and it all syncs up nicely with the different mental states I move between during work. On a side note/quick rant - how stuck are we in our heads and screens, how detached are we from our bodies and how ignorant of the fact that in evolutionary terms we were moving around all the time until like a second ago, that we need a study to figure out that hey, maybe sitting on our collective arses 90% of the time might not be great for us and are we really sure that's a problem, maybe we need more studies. End of rant. TL;DR - get an adjustable desk and a comfortable bar stool, don't stand still, pay attention to how you're feeling - both your body and your mind will thank you. [1] IKEA has this cheap manually adjustable option if one doesn't want to spend the money on an electrical desk, plus only having mechanical parts means it's less likely to break/easier to fix if it does: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S29084966/ http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S29084966/
Lxr 9y ago
I think it's important to keep in mind as with all things, correlation doesn't automatically mean causation - less healthy people are probably more likely to be drawn to less active jobs, for instance. Maybe there is a randomised intervention study that's been done?
stephengillie 9y ago
Who makes money by us being afraid to sit down? Makers of standing desks? http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html
- ioquatix 9y ago
  Or you can build your own? It's actually really easy to make a A-frame standing desk.
- hammock 9y ago
  Good one, the standing desk lobby is way too powerful imo
  - askvictor 9y ago
    It's time we stood up to Big Ergo.
- aklemm 9y ago
  Just because there are many lies out there doesn't mean it's all lies.
  - 35bge57dtjku 9y ago
    Unless you're lying, too.
- pasquinelli 9y ago
  i agree with others that the standing desk industry doesn't hold much sway, but at the same time, if some experts say sitting is the most dangerous thing a person does in a day, then some experts are laughably stupid. why is this sort of thing so common? these articles taking a common fact of life and using it to tell their readers they're doing it wrong and killing themselves and everyone they love? why is that such a common tactic for getting eyeballs? i guess because it works. but is it good for people to injest so much of this? to be clear, i'm not saying that there aren't adverse health effects from sitting too much, and i'm sure there's good science to back that up, but there's a lot of good science, most of which never gets a writeup in bloomberg. so why do we get so much of "dangers of sitting", or "you're walking all wrong", and on and on?
Johnny555 9y ago
Cut sitting time to less than three hours a day, one group of researchers found, and you could lengthen your life expectancy by two years I care more about my quality of life than my life expectancy. Will I get 2 more years of quality life (decent mobility, self reliance, good mental health), or 2 more years of being confined to a bed in a nursing home as my mental faculties fade away?
- stephengillie 9y ago
  Would 2 years of pleasure be preferable to 4 years of torture? Where would the balance be for you? Edit: Was updated to be more in-line with Parent's comment, and less direct.
  - Johnny555 9y ago
    What happens after those 2 years or 20 [1] years? And then I die? I'd take the pleasure. [1] The post originally said "20" years then updated to 4 years, but my answer is the same.
    - stephengillie 9y ago
      To some, it's the same as asking if you'd rather eat tasty meals and live until 62 - or never enjoy what you eat, and constantly torture yourself with exercise, and live until 80. May you maximize both your years and your prosperity.
      - Stratoscope 9y ago
        I'm 65. Being dead three years ago does not appeal to me!
        danielam 9y ago
        I'm willing to bet that's an age-independent invariant :).
- 9y ago
GokhaleMethod 9y ago
Another perspective, "Sitting: Is It Hurting You?" > https://gokhalemethod.com/blog/63827 https://gokhalemethod.com/blog/63827
ahh 9y ago
I know this well, but standing for more than about an hour is torture on my back. (I suspect my flat feet and tight hips contribute here.) I have no idea how to fix this.
- grzm 9y ago
  Tight hips—and mobility improvement in general—is very likely something you can address. I'd encourage you to look into yoga or exercise programs that emphasize functional mobility. You might want to check out the Kelly Starret's Mobility WOD[0], which has a bunch of short videos that provide pointers on diagnosing and addressing mobility issues. He talks about sitting, standing and posture in particular that you might find useful. [0] https://www.mobilitywod.com https://www.mobilitywod.com
- GokhaleMethod 9y ago
  Our founder is actually coming to Seattle (if you're still there as your profile says) over Labor Day - maybe you can join one of her Free Workshops to get an intro? Esther did a talk at Google in Mountain View in 2008 > http://gokhalemethod.com/video/authorsgoogle http://gokhalemethod.com/video/authorsgoogle maybe she could do one at Google in Seattle during her trip? Get in touch! info@gokhalemethod.com Cheers
- kirse 9y ago
  Get a standing mat to help with foot discomfort and work your way up. Week 1 - 10 min stand, 50 min sit. Week 2 - 20 min stand, 40 min sit. Week 3 - etc... Postural muscles take time to develop. Do the Agile 8 every day to work on your flexibility. https://www.t-nation.com/training/defranco-agile-8 https://www.t-nation.com/training/defranco-agile-8 The shortcut to an iron back is deadlifts, find a quality trainer and get in the gym for 30-45min 3x a week and you'll really improve.
  - gnl 9y ago
    Daily mobility work (even just 5 minutes in the evening makes a difference when done daily) combined with a hip hinge exercise a couple of times a week does indeed work wonders (it did for me). As an alternative to the deadlift, I'd like to suggest the two-arm kettlebell swing. While there's no magic bullet in training, the kettlebell swing seems to come pretty close [1]. Plus, you can get one for home/work if you don't want to go to the gym. I would however second the recommendation of learning exercise technique from a qualified trainer, particularly for hip hinge exercises - most adults, myself included, seem to suck surprisingly hard at what is one of the most fundamental human movements. In case you do decide to go the YouTube route however, at least learn from a quality resource like StrongFirst [2], there's too many technique videos ranging from ineffective to plain dangerous. [1] http://www.strongfirst.com/optimizing-back-health-with-the-kettlebell-swing/ http://www.strongfirst.com/optimizing-back-health-with-the-k... [2] https://youtu.be/ZQEFc6rSKvA https://youtu.be/ZQEFc6rSKvA
blueatlas 9y ago
Like anything health related, it really depends on many factors (overall health, genetics, other risk factors) as to weather sitting will have a significant effect on your health. For some, it may never affect them much. But, it won't be a short term thing - you won't know until after many years of sitting. The negative effects of sitting aren't the kinds of things you can reverse.
rpmcmurphy 9y ago
On modern occupational hazards.... "Alex, I'll take circular saws for $500" Perspective people, perspective.
EGreg 9y ago
I would say it's safe to assume most people here sit A LOT. So what's the state of research regarding whether you can make up for it with vigorous activity? Does sitting itself cause problems? Seems to be some hidden variable.
- _nothing 9y ago
  Last I remember (don't remember the source) they found that vigorous exercise elsewhere in the day doesn't make up for it.
  - EGreg 9y ago
    The article says there is research that contradicts that though.
FuckOffNeemo 9y ago
I only mean this statement partly in jest. Buy everyone on your floor a Nerf gun.
- mod 9y ago
  This happened once in my office. It wasn't as cool as it sounds, and also it just led to a lot of shooting each other from our desks.
  - FuckOffNeemo 9y ago
    That's the intent? A handful of us in my office have guns. The novelty wears off once you get sick of retrieving the ammunition. This is why my comment was only partly in jest. My personal experience with getting away from my desk and walking more was spurred on from the discomfort of my DIY standing desk that I made (instructions for the desk are found at [0] and are not my own) and to quit smoking. I sustituted cigarettes with vaping and it's done more for my health and encouraging regular movement than I expected or intended. YMMV of course, I live in a sub-tropical city in Australia and I'm fortunate enough to have a gorgreous river bank [1] and Botanical gardens at my offices offices front door [1]. You'd be less inclined to be outside in Middlesbrough in the UK where I am from or say, Seattle. [0] - http://www.ikeahackers.net/2012/07/on-off-standing-desk-a-lack-desk-add-on.html http://www.ikeahackers.net/2012/07/on-off-standing-desk-a-la... [1] - https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Brisbane+city&client=firefox-b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKt62Au-zVAhXMybwKHcYzBrYQ_AUICygC&biw=1920&bih=955 https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Brisbane+city&client=fire... [2] - https://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-b-ab&biw=1920&bih=955&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Brisbane+city+gardens&oq=Brisbane+city+gardens&gs_l=psy-ab.3...23004.23280.0.23386.8.4.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..8.0.0.wm6EzRnLf5E https://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-b-ab&biw=192...
- i_am_nomad 9y ago
  That would work for my office, except we're all adults and professionals.
  - rixed 9y ago
keyboardmonkey 9y ago
reclining workstation ftw, and getting worthy exercise elsewhere... allows for it all, better sleep and better feeling back that I've had in years.
roceasta 9y ago
If sitting is so bad why is meditation considered to be so good an' healthy? http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2014-11-19-ChairSittingGood.jpg http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2014-11-19-ChairSittingGood... My guess is this problem is not to do with sitting per se; it's how your (partly unconscious) attention is distributed. It's not just work/gaming/movie that requires bandwidth, the body needs some too. If you can't walk about then better posture and even little things like wiggling your toes might be helpful.
- 35bge57dtjku 9y ago
  Maybe because you don't meditate for longer than an hour and sitting for less than an hour is unlikely to give you blood clots.
  - roceasta 9y ago
    Some people pay to meditate for days on end! GP about blood clots. Likelihood of clotting also depends on sympathetic arousal: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2629605/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2629605/ So stimulation arising from eating food, drinking coffee, work stress, etc, whilst being seated would be a double whammy.
- malydok 9y ago
  Sitting isn't a prerequisite for meditation and improving your physical health isn't the point of it either, as far as I know.
  - 0xcde4c3db 9y ago
    Improving physical health is a goal of some types of meditation. It's hard to generalize about meditation in a useful way, because the term covers such a wide range of traditions. It's a bit like trying to generalize about religion (not coincidentally).
- aedron 9y ago
  Different type of sitting. I would guess the cross-legged, straight-back position is great for your core, as well as improving hip and knee flexibility.
ahhhhhhhhhh 9y ago
this is why I lay down
ransom1538 9y ago
Remember. Habits require easy accessibility. You can make an adjustable desk for $0. I can take a recycle bin, trash can, cardboard box, another chair, books, another desk, --and place this item on top of any desk -- then just set my macbook on that. You don't need a $500 electrical moving standing desk - they are annoying. I currently have my macbook on top of a planter on top of a desk (the height is perfect). I worked for 6 months ontop of 3 large legos. If you need to be hipster or require a mouse you can splurge on a nice one for $29. https://oristand.co/ https://oristand.co/
- arvinsim 9y ago
  It's not that easy when you use a multi monitor setup when doing work. Granted, I could use a standing setup when I am just using my computer/laptop for leisure.
- SimeVidas 9y ago
  Yup, I’ve been using the following setup for years: 1. My monitor sits on a cardboard box and an old inkjet printer. 2. My keyboard and mouse are on a nice, wooden plank on top of two stacks of cheap books.
- fredsted 9y ago
  Eh, I'd never stand up if I had to do all that. I prefer pressing a button to raise the desk to my preferred standing height. Also, I use 3 screens. I'd like to see "oristand" do that!
- white-flame 9y ago
  Or just get a tall chair & desk, or boost the chair up on a platform. Sit when you want to, stand when you want to, same desk height.
touchofevil 9y ago
I was working in visual effects where we were doing 9 to 11 hours per day of work at a desk. Nearly everyone ending up buying their own varidesk (varidesk.com) I can't recommend them highly enough, especially if you work at an office where you are provided a regular desk. Varidesks just sit on top of your regular desk. I liked using a standing desk so much, I bought a Geek Desk for home use. geekdesk.com If you get one, be sure to get a standing desk floor mat as well.
Xoros 9y ago
So sitting is bad. Last week it was standing : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15050248 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15050248 It's starting to be difficult to know how to work ! (And yes, I know it's a matter of the duration you stay in the same position, but I found it funny that both topics pop out in the same week)
- kaskavalci 9y ago
  Article agrees with risks of standing and clearly says there is no winner here. Suggestion: The best way for desk jockeys to avoid the sitting trap, research shows, is to not just stand but walk around — for a couple of minutes once an hour, or for five or 10 minutes a few times a day.
  - henrik_w 9y ago
    I have a standing desk, and I try to switch between sitting and standing. But I also have a Fitbit Charge 2 that has (as the default setting) a reminder to walk at least 250 steps every hour. If I am below that at 10 minutes to the hour, there is a little buzz, and often I try to take a quick break then and walk around the office.
  - dzdt 9y ago
    Maybe that is why coffee drinkers are healthier. Up for more coffee and/or bathroom every hour or so.
    - rkowalick 9y ago
      I think I heard Kent Beck refer to this as the 'pee-modoro' technique
- unicornporn 9y ago
  I alternate between standing and sitting. It seems only natural to me that the body needs variation. Stand, sit and (if possible) take a brief walk. Also, there's only one way to stand (correct me if I'm wrong), but there's a whole bunch of ways to sit. http://www.anvention.com/images/zazen_postures.jpg http://www.anvention.com/images/zazen_postures.jpg
grondilu 9y ago
I once joked that ever since I've heard about how bad it is to sit down during hours, I've decided to lay down instead. But is that really so silly? I used to work in front of a computer. I was sited all day and I can tell it got very uncomfortable. I had back pain and stuff. Now I spend most of my time on the bed, and my back is absolutely fine. The main drawback is my neck, but it's not nearly as inconvenient. What I mean is : isn't the posture what is wrong with sitting instead of just inactivity? If so, does that mean we need something like the Altwork Station[1]? 1. http://altwork.com/ http://altwork.com/
- kranner 9y ago
  Serious question: do you have separate beds for sleeping/working? I've worked in bed during long periods of recovering from injury but I found it was very difficult to fall asleep at the end of the day because my body thought it was still 'in the office'. Now I work at a regular desk, and fall asleep within a couple of minutes of lying down at the end of the day.
  - grondilu 9y ago
    Nope, I use the same bed. I do have difficulty to fall asleep though.
    - papa_bear 9y ago
      I spend most of my workday in a zero-gravity chair - I got a leather one off craigslist, but the cheap patio versions are just as comfortable (you can find a bunch on amazon). I have a monitor mounted above me and a keyboard in my lap, and it's never uncomfortable. I think for programming, being uncomfortable can definitely kill some productivity - at a normal desk, I'm intermittently thinking about and correcting my posture, or trying to shift myself to find a new comfortable position, and it interrupts my train of thought. And to feel like I'm not relaxing my ass into an early death, I'll get up and do a quick workout once every hour or two.
      - 9y ago
mahgnous 9y ago
And yet they say standing desks are just as bad and that it's the lack of movement.
pasta 9y ago
So I had all this: insulin problems, hypertension, anxiety and other problems. I can say this is a real problem you should not underestimate. But I can't agree with the title. I believe the underlying problem is lack of muscle movement. So standing all day will give you the same problems. Muscles are a glucose buffer working tightly together with insulin. When this buffer doesn't work well your metabolism also doesn't work as expected and you will get all kinds of problems. Take care of yourself and move as much as possible throughout the day.
- agumonkey 9y ago
  Also sitting position I suppose. Sitting on the side of my bed is not the same as sitting on top of it. It puts pressure under my thighs and with bad blood flow would make my whole legs feel bad.
sashavingardt 9y ago
Ironically, when I worked at Bloomberg, I failed to get a stand up desk for myself. HR made people jump through so many hoops. A note from this doctor and an approval from that specialist, on and on. I tried for months. Then I brought in a swiss ball to sit on and it got taken away. And all of that was in 2014, not that long ago.
- matwood 9y ago
  > Then I brought in a swiss ball to sit on and it got taken away. Huh? Why? Anecdotes like this make me hope I never have to work in a large company again.
- poooogles 9y ago
  You bought in a Swiss ball and it got taken away? Can you expand upon this, I've been looking at positions there any input on this would be great.
rfeather 9y ago
I've found 1-2 walks around the parking lot per day to be a great boost to my well-being. I usually do it solo (escape from open office overload), though at my last job one of the more senior people would usually round up a core group for a good half hour walk. If anything, taking active breaks has been good for my career. Often I go when I finish a task/segment and the quiet, outdoor time give my mind a chance to wander and put things in context so that I can choose my next tasks effectively. It's anecdotal, but I suspect that the people who eat lunch at their desk and don't get up all day aren't actually creating more value than those who take some time. A quick search indicates there are at least some studies backing this up [1]. I'd be curious if there is evidence that points the other way though. [1]http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8548292 http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8548292
agumonkey 9y ago
Jog people. Seriously jog. To work, to the store... Smoothly, avoiding heel stomping (youll have calves in 3 days), to avoid joint pressure, especially at first. (my knees are still fucked up, but even then, I barely feel pain after 4 miles jog when I amort the landing properly). 2 miles per day will change your life. I now miss when I can't, I sleep better, I wake up better. It's a huge stress reliever, resets your mind, burns fat, opens your lungs, makes you hungry for healthier food (less pastry, more veggies and meat). bonus point: you get a tan I couldn't "move" for three years and I notice the difference now that I can. See you in 2 miles.
- tarsinge 9y ago
  Why not cycling instead? Seems easier on the joints and muscles
  - agumonkey 9y ago
    I do indoor biking, for this exact reason. But, it has a much lower impact on my health. Maybe it's because indoor bike don't move, thus not involving as many muscle groups as real bike. The efforts are not distributed the same way. Obviously biking will exercise your thighs but not much else. While running uses abs, all your legs muscles groups. I also believe that we're wired to be efficient at running and thus running tickles your body in better ways. Also there's a nice feeling when your center of gravity lifts up. Even if I can go fast on a bike for 1 min, I can barely sprint that long and surely slowly and I end up exhausted differently. In the end I prefered what running brought me. It may be very subjective though, even if I enjoy all sports, I always had a thing for running. This is all crude opinion, I'd love if anyone with bio/biomech knowledge could shed light on the subject.
    - tarsinge 9y ago
      Good point for the muscle groups involved. Maybe you could bike for cardiovascular health, and for muscle training add some squats (a simple complete workout would be push ups, pull ups and squats, pull ups require a bar though but it's a very useful investment for your back in the long term)
jbb67 9y ago
I'd like to be able to sit much of the time but have frequent short periods of standing. But even adjustable standing desks don't really facilitate that well, and most of the adjustable standing desks I've seen are _worse_ sitting desks than a standard one. My solution it to sit but every 45 minutes go for a 1 minute walk around the office. I'm not sure it's very effective but can't hurt too much
enthukarthik 9y ago
In India, we believe sitting with your leg hanging is not healthy. We usually sit on the floor which will restrict blood flow to the lower part of the body, resulting in more blood to the upper body where most of the vital organs are. Yogis/Rishis sit for months in that cross legged posture without any issues. Standing/Jogging/Walking is not the opposite of sitting. We need to learn how to sit properly
- silverbax88 9y ago
  Are you referring to the Yogis who maintain specific positions for years, deforming their bodies into gnarled, unusable limbs? I wouldn't consider that healthy at all. I would consider them mentally ill.
  - rshaban 9y ago
    Ah, yes: yogis with gnarled, unusable limbs. Here's a clip of of Iyengar in 1977, at age 59: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pIgs03TYo4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pIgs03TYo4
  - enthukarthik 9y ago
    :) I'm saying sitting comfortably on the floor with cross legged. Sample : https://a248.e.akamai.net/secure.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/6/1/c/0/600_458185024.jpeg https://a248.e.akamai.net/secure.meetupstatic.com/photos/eve... http://s.isha.ws/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/20121119_CHI_0248.jpg http://s.isha.ws/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/20121119_CH...
MatthewWit 9y ago
Just go to gym on regular basis and do a lot of core exercises. Also once a hour stand up and walk for a moment. Problem solved.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
throwawaymanbot 9y ago
Sitting at work is bad, standing at work is bad. Rollerskates are the answer!
amai 9y ago
Try sitting on an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_ball https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_ball

Dangers of Sitting

184 points by petethomas 9y ago

jonbaer 9y ago

And not one mention of developing blood clots

sillysaurus3 9y ago
Or hemorrhoids.
jpindar 9y ago
I have one of those under-desk exercise bikes. I don't know if it has any overall effect on my health, but it keeps the circulation going anyway. I definitely recommend this particular model. It's smooth and quiet, works under a normal height desk, and is heavy enough that it doesn't slide around. https://www.amazon.com/DeskCycle-Exercise-Pedal-Exerciser-White/dp/B00B1VDNQA/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1503499919&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=deskcycle++exercise&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/DeskCycle-Exercise-Pedal-Exerciser-Wh...

delias_ 9y ago

I have an adjustable desk. It's really nice to be able to move around throughout the day, but for any thoughtful task that requires some amount focus, I have to sit. I'd like to read further collectively inconclusive research about that.

degenerate 9y ago
I have the exact same issue. I recently moved to an adjustable desk, and writing emails is fine standing up. It's when I need to have a 2-3 hour coding session that I must sit down or I can't focus. I am wondering if this is learned behavior or if sitting down fosters creativity in some way. I'd love to see some science on it too.
- ioquatix 9y ago
  It took me 6 months to make the switch. My standing desk has two computers, 2 keyboards, and 3 screens, soon to be more. I have both systems set up for working on different parts of the same project. I work for an hour on one, walk to the other, do some different work. Switching to this kind of setup was both physical and mental. It was taxing assuming the right posture after years of sitting. My back isn't quite right, but it's a lot better now. Mentally speaking, sometimes I need to sit - I just can't do a certain thing standing up or I'm mentally exhausted and it starts manifesting physically. I actually sit on the floor now, it's uncomfortable and encourages me to stand after a while. So, the net result is, I've incorporated both mental and physical movement into my work and life.
gnl 9y ago
Adjustable desk owner here as well - while it's great and I wouldn't want to miss it [1], I also have a bar stool with a backrest, so I can easily transition between standing and sitting in a second. I also often find sitting conducive to thinking, but then again sometimes I feel most focused when walking around the room. It's hard to put my finger on what it depends on exactly, but it seems to me that often when I have no idea how to approach a problem, I like to sit or lie down, roll it around in my mind, maybe look at the code/the application and let possible solutions come to me. When I already have a basic idea of what direction to go in, I like to walk around in front of my desk while I work out the details (= talk them over with myself) and then type/write standing. It almost seems as if the natural action for a physical destination (not standing around like an idiot until I know where I want to go, then starting to walk and finding my way there as soon as I do) helps with the corresponding thought processes involved in reaching a purely mental destination. Regarding the physical aspect - over the last years of transitioning to and experimenting with a standing a desk I have had phases where I spent hours standing, phases where I went back to sitting most of the time and phases where I had a balance between the two. My personal experience seems to match the anecdotal evidence I've encountered as well as what seems to be the scientific consensus (oiling of joints and lymphatic circulation both rely on movement, among other things), which is that the human body simply isn't designed for spending long periods of time in a single static position. Spending hours standing tends to hurt my feet and knees, spending hours sitting makes my back unhappy. Constantly switching between the two and walking around the room in between makes long sessions of working on a computer much less taxing on the body by far and it makes perfect sense to me that the accumulative effect of this over the course of years and decades will make a difference to my quality of life down the line (in addition to the immediate effects I'm experiencing often after only a single day of doing one or the other). Another thing I've noticed - giving myself the option to easily switch positions, forcing myself to do it for a while with a timer and paying attention to how it feels, lead to me being aware of becoming restless in a single position after a while and noticing the beginning discomfort in parts of the body, which I only used to notice when they were already hurting after hours standing or sitting. I don't use a timer anymore, by now I just listen to my body telling me when it's time to move my arse and it all syncs up nicely with the different mental states I move between during work. On a side note/quick rant - how stuck are we in our heads and screens, how detached are we from our bodies and how ignorant of the fact that in evolutionary terms we were moving around all the time until like a second ago, that we need a study to figure out that hey, maybe sitting on our collective arses 90% of the time might not be great for us and are we really sure that's a problem, maybe we need more studies. End of rant. TL;DR - get an adjustable desk and a comfortable bar stool, don't stand still, pay attention to how you're feeling - both your body and your mind will thank you. [1] IKEA has this cheap manually adjustable option if one doesn't want to spend the money on an electrical desk, plus only having mechanical parts means it's less likely to break/easier to fix if it does: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S29084966/ http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S29084966/

Lxr 9y ago

I think it's important to keep in mind as with all things, correlation doesn't automatically mean causation - less healthy people are probably more likely to be drawn to less active jobs, for instance. Maybe there is a randomised intervention study that's been done?

stephengillie 9y ago

Who makes money by us being afraid to sit down? Makers of standing desks? http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html

ioquatix 9y ago
Or you can build your own? It's actually really easy to make a A-frame standing desk.
hammock 9y ago
Good one, the standing desk lobby is way too powerful imo
- askvictor 9y ago
  It's time we stood up to Big Ergo.
aklemm 9y ago
Just because there are many lies out there doesn't mean it's all lies.
- 35bge57dtjku 9y ago
  Unless you're lying, too.
pasquinelli 9y ago
i agree with others that the standing desk industry doesn't hold much sway, but at the same time, if some experts say sitting is the most dangerous thing a person does in a day, then some experts are laughably stupid. why is this sort of thing so common? these articles taking a common fact of life and using it to tell their readers they're doing it wrong and killing themselves and everyone they love? why is that such a common tactic for getting eyeballs? i guess because it works. but is it good for people to injest so much of this? to be clear, i'm not saying that there aren't adverse health effects from sitting too much, and i'm sure there's good science to back that up, but there's a lot of good science, most of which never gets a writeup in bloomberg. so why do we get so much of "dangers of sitting", or "you're walking all wrong", and on and on?

Johnny555 9y ago

Cut sitting time to less than three hours a day, one group of researchers found, and you could lengthen your life expectancy by two years I care more about my quality of life than my life expectancy. Will I get 2 more years of quality life (decent mobility, self reliance, good mental health), or 2 more years of being confined to a bed in a nursing home as my mental faculties fade away?

stephengillie 9y ago
Would 2 years of pleasure be preferable to 4 years of torture? Where would the balance be for you? Edit: Was updated to be more in-line with Parent's comment, and less direct.
- Johnny555 9y ago
  What happens after those 2 years or 20 [1] years? And then I die? I'd take the pleasure. [1] The post originally said "20" years then updated to 4 years, but my answer is the same.
  - stephengillie 9y ago
    To some, it's the same as asking if you'd rather eat tasty meals and live until 62 - or never enjoy what you eat, and constantly torture yourself with exercise, and live until 80. May you maximize both your years and your prosperity.
    - Stratoscope 9y ago
      I'm 65. Being dead three years ago does not appeal to me!
      - danielam 9y ago
        I'm willing to bet that's an age-independent invariant :).
9y ago

GokhaleMethod 9y ago

Another perspective, "Sitting: Is It Hurting You?" > https://gokhalemethod.com/blog/63827 https://gokhalemethod.com/blog/63827

ahh 9y ago

I know this well, but standing for more than about an hour is torture on my back. (I suspect my flat feet and tight hips contribute here.) I have no idea how to fix this.

grzm 9y ago
Tight hips—and mobility improvement in general—is very likely something you can address. I'd encourage you to look into yoga or exercise programs that emphasize functional mobility. You might want to check out the Kelly Starret's Mobility WOD[0], which has a bunch of short videos that provide pointers on diagnosing and addressing mobility issues. He talks about sitting, standing and posture in particular that you might find useful. [0] https://www.mobilitywod.com https://www.mobilitywod.com
GokhaleMethod 9y ago
Our founder is actually coming to Seattle (if you're still there as your profile says) over Labor Day - maybe you can join one of her Free Workshops to get an intro? Esther did a talk at Google in Mountain View in 2008 > http://gokhalemethod.com/video/authorsgoogle http://gokhalemethod.com/video/authorsgoogle maybe she could do one at Google in Seattle during her trip? Get in touch! info@gokhalemethod.com Cheers
kirse 9y ago
Get a standing mat to help with foot discomfort and work your way up. Week 1 - 10 min stand, 50 min sit. Week 2 - 20 min stand, 40 min sit. Week 3 - etc... Postural muscles take time to develop. Do the Agile 8 every day to work on your flexibility. https://www.t-nation.com/training/defranco-agile-8 https://www.t-nation.com/training/defranco-agile-8 The shortcut to an iron back is deadlifts, find a quality trainer and get in the gym for 30-45min 3x a week and you'll really improve.
- gnl 9y ago
  Daily mobility work (even just 5 minutes in the evening makes a difference when done daily) combined with a hip hinge exercise a couple of times a week does indeed work wonders (it did for me). As an alternative to the deadlift, I'd like to suggest the two-arm kettlebell swing. While there's no magic bullet in training, the kettlebell swing seems to come pretty close [1]. Plus, you can get one for home/work if you don't want to go to the gym. I would however second the recommendation of learning exercise technique from a qualified trainer, particularly for hip hinge exercises - most adults, myself included, seem to suck surprisingly hard at what is one of the most fundamental human movements. In case you do decide to go the YouTube route however, at least learn from a quality resource like StrongFirst [2], there's too many technique videos ranging from ineffective to plain dangerous. [1] http://www.strongfirst.com/optimizing-back-health-with-the-kettlebell-swing/ http://www.strongfirst.com/optimizing-back-health-with-the-k... [2] https://youtu.be/ZQEFc6rSKvA https://youtu.be/ZQEFc6rSKvA

blueatlas 9y ago

Like anything health related, it really depends on many factors (overall health, genetics, other risk factors) as to weather sitting will have a significant effect on your health. For some, it may never affect them much. But, it won't be a short term thing - you won't know until after many years of sitting. The negative effects of sitting aren't the kinds of things you can reverse.

rpmcmurphy 9y ago

On modern occupational hazards.... "Alex, I'll take circular saws for $500" Perspective people, perspective.

EGreg 9y ago

I would say it's safe to assume most people here sit A LOT. So what's the state of research regarding whether you can make up for it with vigorous activity? Does sitting itself cause problems? Seems to be some hidden variable.

_nothing 9y ago
Last I remember (don't remember the source) they found that vigorous exercise elsewhere in the day doesn't make up for it.
- EGreg 9y ago
  The article says there is research that contradicts that though.

FuckOffNeemo 9y ago

I only mean this statement partly in jest. Buy everyone on your floor a Nerf gun.

mod 9y ago
This happened once in my office. It wasn't as cool as it sounds, and also it just led to a lot of shooting each other from our desks.
- FuckOffNeemo 9y ago
  That's the intent? A handful of us in my office have guns. The novelty wears off once you get sick of retrieving the ammunition. This is why my comment was only partly in jest. My personal experience with getting away from my desk and walking more was spurred on from the discomfort of my DIY standing desk that I made (instructions for the desk are found at [0] and are not my own) and to quit smoking. I sustituted cigarettes with vaping and it's done more for my health and encouraging regular movement than I expected or intended. YMMV of course, I live in a sub-tropical city in Australia and I'm fortunate enough to have a gorgreous river bank [1] and Botanical gardens at my offices offices front door [1]. You'd be less inclined to be outside in Middlesbrough in the UK where I am from or say, Seattle. [0] - http://www.ikeahackers.net/2012/07/on-off-standing-desk-a-lack-desk-add-on.html http://www.ikeahackers.net/2012/07/on-off-standing-desk-a-la... [1] - https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Brisbane+city&client=firefox-b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKt62Au-zVAhXMybwKHcYzBrYQ_AUICygC&biw=1920&bih=955 https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Brisbane+city&client=fire... [2] - https://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-b-ab&biw=1920&bih=955&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Brisbane+city+gardens&oq=Brisbane+city+gardens&gs_l=psy-ab.3...23004.23280.0.23386.8.4.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..8.0.0.wm6EzRnLf5E https://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-b-ab&biw=192...
i_am_nomad 9y ago
That would work for my office, except we're all adults and professionals.
- rixed 9y ago

keyboardmonkey 9y ago

reclining workstation ftw, and getting worthy exercise elsewhere... allows for it all, better sleep and better feeling back that I've had in years.

roceasta 9y ago

If sitting is so bad why is meditation considered to be so good an' healthy? http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2014-11-19-ChairSittingGood.jpg http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2014-11-19-ChairSittingGood... My guess is this problem is not to do with sitting per se; it's how your (partly unconscious) attention is distributed. It's not just work/gaming/movie that requires bandwidth, the body needs some too. If you can't walk about then better posture and even little things like wiggling your toes might be helpful.

35bge57dtjku 9y ago
Maybe because you don't meditate for longer than an hour and sitting for less than an hour is unlikely to give you blood clots.
- roceasta 9y ago
  Some people pay to meditate for days on end! GP about blood clots. Likelihood of clotting also depends on sympathetic arousal: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2629605/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2629605/ So stimulation arising from eating food, drinking coffee, work stress, etc, whilst being seated would be a double whammy.
malydok 9y ago
Sitting isn't a prerequisite for meditation and improving your physical health isn't the point of it either, as far as I know.
- 0xcde4c3db 9y ago
  Improving physical health is a goal of some types of meditation. It's hard to generalize about meditation in a useful way, because the term covers such a wide range of traditions. It's a bit like trying to generalize about religion (not coincidentally).
aedron 9y ago
Different type of sitting. I would guess the cross-legged, straight-back position is great for your core, as well as improving hip and knee flexibility.

ahhhhhhhhhh 9y ago

this is why I lay down

ransom1538 9y ago

Remember. Habits require easy accessibility. You can make an adjustable desk for $0. I can take a recycle bin, trash can, cardboard box, another chair, books, another desk, --and place this item on top of any desk -- then just set my macbook on that. You don't need a $500 electrical moving standing desk - they are annoying. I currently have my macbook on top of a planter on top of a desk (the height is perfect). I worked for 6 months ontop of 3 large legos. If you need to be hipster or require a mouse you can splurge on a nice one for $29. https://oristand.co/ https://oristand.co/

arvinsim 9y ago
It's not that easy when you use a multi monitor setup when doing work. Granted, I could use a standing setup when I am just using my computer/laptop for leisure.
SimeVidas 9y ago
Yup, I’ve been using the following setup for years: 1. My monitor sits on a cardboard box and an old inkjet printer. 2. My keyboard and mouse are on a nice, wooden plank on top of two stacks of cheap books.
fredsted 9y ago
Eh, I'd never stand up if I had to do all that. I prefer pressing a button to raise the desk to my preferred standing height. Also, I use 3 screens. I'd like to see "oristand" do that!
white-flame 9y ago
Or just get a tall chair & desk, or boost the chair up on a platform. Sit when you want to, stand when you want to, same desk height.

touchofevil 9y ago

I was working in visual effects where we were doing 9 to 11 hours per day of work at a desk. Nearly everyone ending up buying their own varidesk (varidesk.com) I can't recommend them highly enough, especially if you work at an office where you are provided a regular desk. Varidesks just sit on top of your regular desk. I liked using a standing desk so much, I bought a Geek Desk for home use. geekdesk.com If you get one, be sure to get a standing desk floor mat as well.

Xoros 9y ago

So sitting is bad. Last week it was standing : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15050248 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15050248 It's starting to be difficult to know how to work ! (And yes, I know it's a matter of the duration you stay in the same position, but I found it funny that both topics pop out in the same week)

kaskavalci 9y ago
Article agrees with risks of standing and clearly says there is no winner here. Suggestion: The best way for desk jockeys to avoid the sitting trap, research shows, is to not just stand but walk around — for a couple of minutes once an hour, or for five or 10 minutes a few times a day.
- henrik_w 9y ago
  I have a standing desk, and I try to switch between sitting and standing. But I also have a Fitbit Charge 2 that has (as the default setting) a reminder to walk at least 250 steps every hour. If I am below that at 10 minutes to the hour, there is a little buzz, and often I try to take a quick break then and walk around the office.
- dzdt 9y ago
  Maybe that is why coffee drinkers are healthier. Up for more coffee and/or bathroom every hour or so.
  - rkowalick 9y ago
    I think I heard Kent Beck refer to this as the 'pee-modoro' technique
unicornporn 9y ago
I alternate between standing and sitting. It seems only natural to me that the body needs variation. Stand, sit and (if possible) take a brief walk. Also, there's only one way to stand (correct me if I'm wrong), but there's a whole bunch of ways to sit. http://www.anvention.com/images/zazen_postures.jpg http://www.anvention.com/images/zazen_postures.jpg

grondilu 9y ago

I once joked that ever since I've heard about how bad it is to sit down during hours, I've decided to lay down instead. But is that really so silly? I used to work in front of a computer. I was sited all day and I can tell it got very uncomfortable. I had back pain and stuff. Now I spend most of my time on the bed, and my back is absolutely fine. The main drawback is my neck, but it's not nearly as inconvenient. What I mean is : isn't the posture what is wrong with sitting instead of just inactivity? If so, does that mean we need something like the Altwork Station[1]? 1. http://altwork.com/ http://altwork.com/

kranner 9y ago
Serious question: do you have separate beds for sleeping/working? I've worked in bed during long periods of recovering from injury but I found it was very difficult to fall asleep at the end of the day because my body thought it was still 'in the office'. Now I work at a regular desk, and fall asleep within a couple of minutes of lying down at the end of the day.
- grondilu 9y ago
  Nope, I use the same bed. I do have difficulty to fall asleep though.
  - papa_bear 9y ago
    I spend most of my workday in a zero-gravity chair - I got a leather one off craigslist, but the cheap patio versions are just as comfortable (you can find a bunch on amazon). I have a monitor mounted above me and a keyboard in my lap, and it's never uncomfortable. I think for programming, being uncomfortable can definitely kill some productivity - at a normal desk, I'm intermittently thinking about and correcting my posture, or trying to shift myself to find a new comfortable position, and it interrupts my train of thought. And to feel like I'm not relaxing my ass into an early death, I'll get up and do a quick workout once every hour or two.
    - 9y ago

mahgnous 9y ago

And yet they say standing desks are just as bad and that it's the lack of movement.

pasta 9y ago

So I had all this: insulin problems, hypertension, anxiety and other problems. I can say this is a real problem you should not underestimate. But I can't agree with the title. I believe the underlying problem is lack of muscle movement. So standing all day will give you the same problems. Muscles are a glucose buffer working tightly together with insulin. When this buffer doesn't work well your metabolism also doesn't work as expected and you will get all kinds of problems. Take care of yourself and move as much as possible throughout the day.

agumonkey 9y ago
Also sitting position I suppose. Sitting on the side of my bed is not the same as sitting on top of it. It puts pressure under my thighs and with bad blood flow would make my whole legs feel bad.

sashavingardt 9y ago

Ironically, when I worked at Bloomberg, I failed to get a stand up desk for myself. HR made people jump through so many hoops. A note from this doctor and an approval from that specialist, on and on. I tried for months. Then I brought in a swiss ball to sit on and it got taken away. And all of that was in 2014, not that long ago.

matwood 9y ago
> Then I brought in a swiss ball to sit on and it got taken away. Huh? Why? Anecdotes like this make me hope I never have to work in a large company again.
poooogles 9y ago
You bought in a Swiss ball and it got taken away? Can you expand upon this, I've been looking at positions there any input on this would be great.

rfeather 9y ago

I've found 1-2 walks around the parking lot per day to be a great boost to my well-being. I usually do it solo (escape from open office overload), though at my last job one of the more senior people would usually round up a core group for a good half hour walk. If anything, taking active breaks has been good for my career. Often I go when I finish a task/segment and the quiet, outdoor time give my mind a chance to wander and put things in context so that I can choose my next tasks effectively. It's anecdotal, but I suspect that the people who eat lunch at their desk and don't get up all day aren't actually creating more value than those who take some time. A quick search indicates there are at least some studies backing this up [1]. I'd be curious if there is evidence that points the other way though. [1]http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8548292 http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8548292

agumonkey 9y ago

Jog people. Seriously jog. To work, to the store... Smoothly, avoiding heel stomping (youll have calves in 3 days), to avoid joint pressure, especially at first. (my knees are still fucked up, but even then, I barely feel pain after 4 miles jog when I amort the landing properly). 2 miles per day will change your life. I now miss when I can't, I sleep better, I wake up better. It's a huge stress reliever, resets your mind, burns fat, opens your lungs, makes you hungry for healthier food (less pastry, more veggies and meat). bonus point: you get a tan I couldn't "move" for three years and I notice the difference now that I can. See you in 2 miles.

tarsinge 9y ago
Why not cycling instead? Seems easier on the joints and muscles
- agumonkey 9y ago
  I do indoor biking, for this exact reason. But, it has a much lower impact on my health. Maybe it's because indoor bike don't move, thus not involving as many muscle groups as real bike. The efforts are not distributed the same way. Obviously biking will exercise your thighs but not much else. While running uses abs, all your legs muscles groups. I also believe that we're wired to be efficient at running and thus running tickles your body in better ways. Also there's a nice feeling when your center of gravity lifts up. Even if I can go fast on a bike for 1 min, I can barely sprint that long and surely slowly and I end up exhausted differently. In the end I prefered what running brought me. It may be very subjective though, even if I enjoy all sports, I always had a thing for running. This is all crude opinion, I'd love if anyone with bio/biomech knowledge could shed light on the subject.
  - tarsinge 9y ago
    Good point for the muscle groups involved. Maybe you could bike for cardiovascular health, and for muscle training add some squats (a simple complete workout would be push ups, pull ups and squats, pull ups require a bar though but it's a very useful investment for your back in the long term)

jbb67 9y ago

I'd like to be able to sit much of the time but have frequent short periods of standing. But even adjustable standing desks don't really facilitate that well, and most of the adjustable standing desks I've seen are _worse_ sitting desks than a standard one. My solution it to sit but every 45 minutes go for a 1 minute walk around the office. I'm not sure it's very effective but can't hurt too much

enthukarthik 9y ago

In India, we believe sitting with your leg hanging is not healthy. We usually sit on the floor which will restrict blood flow to the lower part of the body, resulting in more blood to the upper body where most of the vital organs are. Yogis/Rishis sit for months in that cross legged posture without any issues. Standing/Jogging/Walking is not the opposite of sitting. We need to learn how to sit properly

silverbax88 9y ago
Are you referring to the Yogis who maintain specific positions for years, deforming their bodies into gnarled, unusable limbs? I wouldn't consider that healthy at all. I would consider them mentally ill.
- rshaban 9y ago
  Ah, yes: yogis with gnarled, unusable limbs. Here's a clip of of Iyengar in 1977, at age 59: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pIgs03TYo4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pIgs03TYo4
- enthukarthik 9y ago
  :) I'm saying sitting comfortably on the floor with cross legged. Sample : https://a248.e.akamai.net/secure.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/6/1/c/0/600_458185024.jpeg https://a248.e.akamai.net/secure.meetupstatic.com/photos/eve... http://s.isha.ws/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/20121119_CHI_0248.jpg http://s.isha.ws/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/20121119_CH...

MatthewWit 9y ago

Just go to gym on regular basis and do a lot of core exercises. Also once a hour stand up and walk for a moment. Problem solved.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

throwawaymanbot 9y ago

Sitting at work is bad, standing at work is bad. Rollerskates are the answer!

amai 9y ago

Try sitting on an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_ball https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_ball