8 ms·

And how many of those searches are initiated by MS spyware that watches what you type in the start menu? (If you have a Windows computer with default privacy s

And how many of those searches are initiated by MS spyware that watches what you type in the start menu? (If you have a Windows computer with default privacy settings, press the Start key; type a few letters. You just "searched" Bing)

cma 9y ago
Yeah, it isn't a coincidence that windows 10 was the first "free" major OS upgrade from MS and then we see numbers like this.
- nolok 9y ago
  Weren't Windows 7 and 8 already having "web search" enabled for the start menu ? I'm sure it was there, but not if that was default behavior or if it needed to be enabled. Not a Windows 10 introduction, although that one tends to find any excuse it can to call home.
  - lucb1e 9y ago
    Maybe Windows 8? Because definitely not 7. I think it offered you to "search the internet" (aka bing), but it didn't do that by itself, you had to click that option.
- adventured 9y ago
  Microsoft doesn't yield enough sales or profit from Bing for such a thing to matter at all, versus the profit given up from the free upgrade on their single most profitable product. Bing is a financial joke compared to Windows and always will be. The free upgrade was to get people off of 7 and 8. Windows 7 was an aging product that people were reluctant to give up, and Windows 8 was a disaster that was accelerating the erosion of Windows and doing damage to a brand worth tens of billions of dollars. Windows 8 was acting as a product generation blockade, most 7 users didn't want to touch it, and people who bought it had a poor experience. Bing had nothing to do with the free upgrade at all.
  - cma 9y ago
    The upgrade changed your search provider to Bing unless you were very careful, I believe in more than one place. It also tries hard to default you to Edge which would take you to Bing. And I believe it added lots of new agreements on tracking. There is now a Cortana/Bing voice search service that can't really be fully turned off that came with it or one of thelater upgrades I think.
_Codemonkeyism 9y ago
a.) yes b.) I don't like or use that feature c.) But aren't that searches?
- nolok 9y ago
  To your C), see my other comment on this same thread. Yes, and it's valid in a "which search engine handles the biggest amount of search". But what matters money wise for their share holders, for you as a potential customer (ad buyer), ... is not how many search they take on, it's how many times your ads can be seen. And in that context, those aren't worth anything. (of course that is until they try to embed ads there, but since even Google hasn't found a way yet I don't see Microsoft taking the first step)
  - _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
    Yes, but every search taken on Bing is less money for Google.
    - philipodonnell 9y ago
      I think the point is that this type of search isn't worth anything to anyone because it can't result in an ad being displayed. It benefits MS because they can talk about big "search" numbers, but no one else cares.
      - _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
        If as a Win10 user I'm getting used to searching in the "Start" menu I'm not going to google.com
        jerf 9y ago
        The point is that if you're searching for "n", "no", "not", "note", "notep", "notepa" and "notepad" because you typed a bit slowly into your start menu, those 7 searches count for nothing by any useful metric, be it either anything a human was interested in, or anything an advertiser is interested it. Google doesn't lose out a search because typing "notepad" into the Start menu never meant a desire to search the internet in the first place. If Bing is counting those as searches they aren't very "real". I say "if" because I don't have any direct knowledge.
nolok 9y ago
Aren't Firefox/Ubuntu/Chrome doing the same for Google (eg type a few letters and they search for suggestions in their local db [bookmarks, history, ...] but also make a remote search for more) ? Not saying this as anti-Google, pro-Microsoft or pro/anti anyone, merely agreeing with you that the "% of {area|time|...} search" means absolutely nothing. Especially in the context that matters for potential Bing customers, aka ads buyers: I don't care about how many search there are, I care about how many people can see my ad. Of course no big search entity has any interest of giving those "real search" numbers, neither the front runner nor the underdog.
- jameskegel 9y ago
  Actually, for a while, Ubuntu tried to do this with Amazon. I'm not sure if it is still there, I doubt it, but I remember the unity-advertising-lens-removal fix being pretty popular at the time.
- jeltz 9y ago
  Ubuntu got a lot of shit for doing that with Amazon so I think they stopped doing it, and Firefox has as far as I know never done a remote search until you press enter, the suggestions in the bar are all based on local data.
  - sz4kerto 9y ago
    Firefox absolutely does run searches after you agree into it after installation.
    - TrinaryWorksToo 9y ago
      At least it's opt-in though, unlike windows.
    - mehs 9y ago
      AFAIK it doesn't on address bar but of course it does on search bar for suggestions. That's why they were keeping the two separate.
gnicholas 9y ago
Ditto for asking Siri anything that she cannot handle via specialized search conduits (weather, sports scores, etc.). Anything else ends up as a web search powered by Bing, and its tallied even if it was useless and unused. This often happens to me when I'm exploring the edges of what Siri can do (which is much less than Alexa or Google's assistant). It also happens when Siri mis-hears me and can't properly route the search query to weather, sports, or whatever handler would have been appropriate. And note that while it is possible to change Safari's default search engine, it is not possible to make these Siri searches run on anything other than Bing. I'm sure Apple is being paid handsomely (and keeping some valuable data out of Google's hands).
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

cma 9y ago

Yeah, it isn't a coincidence that windows 10 was the first "free" major OS upgrade from MS and then we see numbers like this.

nolok 9y ago
Weren't Windows 7 and 8 already having "web search" enabled for the start menu ? I'm sure it was there, but not if that was default behavior or if it needed to be enabled. Not a Windows 10 introduction, although that one tends to find any excuse it can to call home.
- lucb1e 9y ago
  Maybe Windows 8? Because definitely not 7. I think it offered you to "search the internet" (aka bing), but it didn't do that by itself, you had to click that option.
adventured 9y ago
Microsoft doesn't yield enough sales or profit from Bing for such a thing to matter at all, versus the profit given up from the free upgrade on their single most profitable product. Bing is a financial joke compared to Windows and always will be. The free upgrade was to get people off of 7 and 8. Windows 7 was an aging product that people were reluctant to give up, and Windows 8 was a disaster that was accelerating the erosion of Windows and doing damage to a brand worth tens of billions of dollars. Windows 8 was acting as a product generation blockade, most 7 users didn't want to touch it, and people who bought it had a poor experience. Bing had nothing to do with the free upgrade at all.
- cma 9y ago
  The upgrade changed your search provider to Bing unless you were very careful, I believe in more than one place. It also tries hard to default you to Edge which would take you to Bing. And I believe it added lots of new agreements on tracking. There is now a Cortana/Bing voice search service that can't really be fully turned off that came with it or one of thelater upgrades I think.

_Codemonkeyism 9y ago

a.) yes b.) I don't like or use that feature c.) But aren't that searches?

nolok 9y ago
To your C), see my other comment on this same thread. Yes, and it's valid in a "which search engine handles the biggest amount of search". But what matters money wise for their share holders, for you as a potential customer (ad buyer), ... is not how many search they take on, it's how many times your ads can be seen. And in that context, those aren't worth anything. (of course that is until they try to embed ads there, but since even Google hasn't found a way yet I don't see Microsoft taking the first step)
- _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
  Yes, but every search taken on Bing is less money for Google.
  - philipodonnell 9y ago
    I think the point is that this type of search isn't worth anything to anyone because it can't result in an ad being displayed. It benefits MS because they can talk about big "search" numbers, but no one else cares.
    - _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
      If as a Win10 user I'm getting used to searching in the "Start" menu I'm not going to google.com
      - jerf 9y ago
        The point is that if you're searching for "n", "no", "not", "note", "notep", "notepa" and "notepad" because you typed a bit slowly into your start menu, those 7 searches count for nothing by any useful metric, be it either anything a human was interested in, or anything an advertiser is interested it. Google doesn't lose out a search because typing "notepad" into the Start menu never meant a desire to search the internet in the first place. If Bing is counting those as searches they aren't very "real". I say "if" because I don't have any direct knowledge.

nolok 9y ago

Aren't Firefox/Ubuntu/Chrome doing the same for Google (eg type a few letters and they search for suggestions in their local db [bookmarks, history, ...] but also make a remote search for more) ? Not saying this as anti-Google, pro-Microsoft or pro/anti anyone, merely agreeing with you that the "% of {area|time|...} search" means absolutely nothing. Especially in the context that matters for potential Bing customers, aka ads buyers: I don't care about how many search there are, I care about how many people can see my ad. Of course no big search entity has any interest of giving those "real search" numbers, neither the front runner nor the underdog.

jameskegel 9y ago
Actually, for a while, Ubuntu tried to do this with Amazon. I'm not sure if it is still there, I doubt it, but I remember the unity-advertising-lens-removal fix being pretty popular at the time.
jeltz 9y ago
Ubuntu got a lot of shit for doing that with Amazon so I think they stopped doing it, and Firefox has as far as I know never done a remote search until you press enter, the suggestions in the bar are all based on local data.
- sz4kerto 9y ago
  Firefox absolutely does run searches after you agree into it after installation.
  - TrinaryWorksToo 9y ago
    At least it's opt-in though, unlike windows.
  - mehs 9y ago
    AFAIK it doesn't on address bar but of course it does on search bar for suggestions. That's why they were keeping the two separate.

gnicholas 9y ago

Ditto for asking Siri anything that she cannot handle via specialized search conduits (weather, sports scores, etc.). Anything else ends up as a web search powered by Bing, and its tallied even if it was useless and unused. This often happens to me when I'm exploring the edges of what Siri can do (which is much less than Alexa or Google's assistant). It also happens when Siri mis-hears me and can't properly route the search query to weather, sports, or whatever handler would have been appropriate. And note that while it is possible to change Safari's default search engine, it is not possible to make these Siri searches run on anything other than Bing. I'm sure Apple is being paid handsomely (and keeping some valuable data out of Google's hands).

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]