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Yeah, I got tons of pushback when I tried to steer Automattic and the WordPress community away from React in 2015 with people saying not to worry: "Replace Rea

Yeah, I got tons of pushback when I tried to steer Automattic and the WordPress community away from React in 2015 with people saying not to worry: "Replace React with Mithril for licensing reasons" https://github.com/Automattic/wp-calypso/issues/650 https://github.com/Automattic/wp-calypso/issues/650 Personally, I increasingly doubt that BSD+PATENTS is even GPL-compatible -- and so potentially Automattic may be violating the GPL by using React integrated with WordPress. What's especially sad about this is that React isn't even that good compared to other vdoms like Mithril and Inferno and others. React just has a lot of name recognition and mindshare from the Facebook association (which then translates into a rich-get-richer effect with more tutorials and components). Here is a list of more than twenty alternative vdoms I put together in January 2016 (although Mithril remains my favorite): https://github.com/dojo/meta/issues/11#issuecomment-176790243 https://github.com/dojo/meta/issues/11#issuecomment-17679024...

joobus 9y ago
React also has react-native. There is no comparable alternative for that.
- pdfernhout 9y ago
  You're right overall (at least for developers who prefer React). React Native is a compelling technology. That said, I can hope that over time, lightweight JavaScript libraries like Mithril along with better mobile browsers with better support for occasionally-connected web applications will continue to reduce the relative benefits of a native approach. Apache Cordova and NativeScript are other options as well.
- mygo 9y ago
  Pretty sure VueJS has Weex (https://weex.incubator.apache.org https://weex.incubator.apache.org)
bryanlarsen 9y ago
Most of those twenty probably infringe on Facebook patents. You can choose to use a library with an explicit grant, or a library with unclear patent status.
- pdfernhout 9y ago
  We don't know for sure what React-related patents Facebook really has or if they would claim any other libraries infringe them -- or whether those patents would stand up in court given prior art. There are vdom-like approaches that predate React. That said, I would expect that vdom libraries like Mithril that work in a very different way than React would be less likely to be claimed by Facebook to infringe a React-related patent than, say, Preact which tries to duplicate the React API. Of course, this is all speculation with a lot of unknowns. It all is another example of why software patents are very problematical ways to "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts".
Lazare 9y ago
If Facebook has a patent on React, it's almost certainly going to be on the vdom concept. If Facebook has a patent on the vdom, then all the projects in your list violate the patent, and none of them come with even a conditional patent grant from Facebook. If Facebook does not have a patent on the vdom or other React technology, then those other projects are safe, but so is React, since termination of the patent grant has zero cost to you. My personal belief is that Facebook has no patents on React, so I feel safe to use React, Mithril, or any other vdom based library. But I can certainly understand people who feel like they need to play it safe, assume Facebook does have a vdom patent, and avoid all such libraries. But I'm not really following your logic at all. It's like you think Facebook has a patent, but then you only want to use the libraries that maximise your ability to get sued over it? What am I missing?
- falcolas 9y ago
  Being sued, whether the patent is valid or not, is really expensive. Unless you're Google, or of similar size, you're going to lose just due to the costs. Using React just opens you up to liability, with no real benefit (other than using React). Why would you use it?
  - incompatible 9y ago
    Presumably anybody in this situation will be able to cope with the expense, since they'd already be suing Facebook.
    - mygo 9y ago
      just because you may have enough resources to sue facebook for patent infringement doesn't mean you can afford to halt all new development and rewrite/rebuild what has become the reason that you have enough resources to sue facebook
  - Lazare 9y ago
    > Using React just opens you up to liability, with no real benefit (other than using React). How? Again, if they have a patent, they can sue you if you use one of the alternatives mentioned. If they don't have a patent, they can't sue you if you use React. What's your thinking behind saying using React adds liability? Because to me, it looks like either it does nothing or it reduces liability.

joobus 9y ago

React also has react-native. There is no comparable alternative for that.

pdfernhout 9y ago
You're right overall (at least for developers who prefer React). React Native is a compelling technology. That said, I can hope that over time, lightweight JavaScript libraries like Mithril along with better mobile browsers with better support for occasionally-connected web applications will continue to reduce the relative benefits of a native approach. Apache Cordova and NativeScript are other options as well.
mygo 9y ago
Pretty sure VueJS has Weex (https://weex.incubator.apache.org https://weex.incubator.apache.org)

bryanlarsen 9y ago

Most of those twenty probably infringe on Facebook patents. You can choose to use a library with an explicit grant, or a library with unclear patent status.

pdfernhout 9y ago
We don't know for sure what React-related patents Facebook really has or if they would claim any other libraries infringe them -- or whether those patents would stand up in court given prior art. There are vdom-like approaches that predate React. That said, I would expect that vdom libraries like Mithril that work in a very different way than React would be less likely to be claimed by Facebook to infringe a React-related patent than, say, Preact which tries to duplicate the React API. Of course, this is all speculation with a lot of unknowns. It all is another example of why software patents are very problematical ways to "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts".

Lazare 9y ago

If Facebook has a patent on React, it's almost certainly going to be on the vdom concept. If Facebook has a patent on the vdom, then all the projects in your list violate the patent, and none of them come with even a conditional patent grant from Facebook. If Facebook does not have a patent on the vdom or other React technology, then those other projects are safe, but so is React, since termination of the patent grant has zero cost to you. My personal belief is that Facebook has no patents on React, so I feel safe to use React, Mithril, or any other vdom based library. But I can certainly understand people who feel like they need to play it safe, assume Facebook does have a vdom patent, and avoid all such libraries. But I'm not really following your logic at all. It's like you think Facebook has a patent, but then you only want to use the libraries that maximise your ability to get sued over it? What am I missing?

falcolas 9y ago
Being sued, whether the patent is valid or not, is really expensive. Unless you're Google, or of similar size, you're going to lose just due to the costs. Using React just opens you up to liability, with no real benefit (other than using React). Why would you use it?
- incompatible 9y ago
  Presumably anybody in this situation will be able to cope with the expense, since they'd already be suing Facebook.
  - mygo 9y ago
    just because you may have enough resources to sue facebook for patent infringement doesn't mean you can afford to halt all new development and rewrite/rebuild what has become the reason that you have enough resources to sue facebook
- Lazare 9y ago
  > Using React just opens you up to liability, with no real benefit (other than using React). How? Again, if they have a patent, they can sue you if you use one of the alternatives mentioned. If they don't have a patent, they can't sue you if you use React. What's your thinking behind saying using React adds liability? Because to me, it looks like either it does nothing or it reduces liability.