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Announcing .NET Core 2.0
- snomad 9y agoLooks like VS 15.3 is official too https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2017/08/14/visual-studio-2017-version-15-3-released/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2017/08/14/vis...
- Todd 9y agoHere's the associated submission: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15009929 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15009929
- systems 9y agoBeside C#, what other languages are considered to have first class support I know VB .Net might be implicit here, but I am not so sure as I dont hear much about it anymore and I think it is no longer adding new features And I know that there is some F# support So aside from those two (VB .Net and F#) ... any other languages have serious support for .net core?
- canada_dry 9y agoApparently a bunch of extensions like C, C++, Python, Go are available. Not sure 'bout "first class support". FYI... interesting collection of .net core stuff here: https://github.com/thangchung/awesome-dotnet-core https://github.com/thangchung/awesome-dotnet-core
- bsaul 9y agoi tried f# and it really feels like a second classe citizen ( at least on macos). Very few educational resources. You still need to spend a lot of time on c sharp to learn the frameworks, and then maybe move to f#.
- pryelluw 9y agoThis has been my experience as well and I have really good f# devs available to answer questions.
- jackfoxy 9y agoThe problem is F# does not use the Roslyn compiler (but does use other components of the Roslyn tool stack in Visual Studio) and it uses things in the IL (primarily tail calls) the other .NET languages do not -- and the rest of the Microsoft teams understandably want to move fast on all the initiatives surrounding .NET Core. This results in the Microsoft F# team and the F# community contributors playing catch-up. Eventually F# will catch-up, but it is going to take time.
- pjmlp 9y agoF# was supported on the MDIL compiler for Windows 8.x, then Microsoft did not consider the language relevant enough to support on the new .NET Native compiler when Windows 10 came out, almost two years ago. How much time do they need to catch up?
- TensorMetric 9y agoMicrosoft's own .NET Native runtime is simply not .NET compliant https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15007166 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15007166 This is unacceptable and should be fixed ASAP. F# is a mature language existing for more than a decade, there is simply no excuse to let this slide.
- jackfoxy 9y agoMicrosoft had to fix the C# compiler. The result was Roslyn. It's actually amazing that Roslyn was a successful project. Probably most software projects that ambitious fail. The project would have failed if they tried to make it F# compliant at the same time. Speaking as someone who makes his living writing F# code, I'm as frustrated as anyone about this, but there will be a successful resolution. I just don't know how soon. Before today's announcements my personal thinking was that it would be this autumn. That's still possible. In the meantime I can still function in the F# world, as before. It just remains frustrating to branch out into some of the areas I would like to.
- ams6110 9y agoI think C# is the one and only language to consider if you're doing anything serious in .NET. While F# is academically interesting and maybe OK for some personal or solo projects, you'll struggle to find developers for anything of substantial size.
- bnw06 9y agoI'd agree with this but F# is increasingly moving towards first class support.
- maxxxxx 9y agoIs that true? I see no evidence for that.
- pjmlp 9y agoI will believe that when F# gets a spot in UWP, right now it seems on its way out with an open ticket for support since Windows 10 came out.
- TensorMetric 9y agoWe should make a bigger fuss about F# support for UWP https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15007166 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15007166
- ocdtrekkie 9y agoVisual Basic .NET is still getting new features, though they recently announced they will stop keeping exact parity between VB and C# language features. (Instead, it looks like they are interested in making it easier to include C# code in your VB project and vice versa long-term.) Discussion of VB.NET language design can be found here: https://github.com/dotnet/vblang https://github.com/dotnet/vblang
- manigandham 9y agoGood video overview of everything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2mMbjw6cLA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2mMbjw6cLA
- banashark 9y agoI'm enjoying reaping the rewards of all the dotnet core work in my F# projects. One critique: Why break semver? https://github.com/dotnet/standard/blob/master/docs/faq.md#what-about-the-breaking-change-between-net-standard-1x-and-20 https://github.com/dotnet/standard/blob/master/docs/faq.md#w... Like I get that it feels like a big change (and it is), but you've gone and confused a huge population of library writers and users with the major version bump. https://github.com/search?q=netstandard2.0&type=Issues&utf8=%E2%9C%93 https://github.com/search?q=netstandard2.0&type=Issues&utf8=... How many of those are irrelevant or invalid? That's just github. I already see the noise being created in slack and gitter channels as well. Other than that I think dotnet core is an amazing engineering effort and I've been happy using F# on OSX with it.
- bsaul 9y agodo you still need to install mono in addition to core to get autocomplete on vscode ?
- terrajobst 9y agoIt doesn't break sem ver. Sem ver doesn't disallow revving the major number without making a breaking change. It only says if you do a breaking change, you need to rev the major number.
- sridca 9y agoIs there a good open source F# project running on .NET core? Just to see what it looks like.
- hacker_9 9y ago"You can now refer to .NET Core/.NET Standard libraries from .NET Framework projects and vice versa. No need to manually add interop NuGet packages – Visual Studio does this for you automatically." Excellent. Hopefully developers moves over to .Net Core en masse now, and I won't have to wait long for all my third party projects to switch over.
- jefe_ 9y agoI have been absolutely loving .NET Core since I started using it this spring. Currently running two applications in production, one on a Windows Server with IIS and another on a Centos 6 server with Docker. Docker was surprisingly easier than configuring Web Deploy to IIS. There have been a few things that are oddly documented, but generally documentation has improved over these months as user base has grown. They have some great videos on Microsoft Virtual Academy. Early on it felt like many packages weren't compatible (particularly PDF & Image tools), but as time has progressed many old packages have been converted to .Net Core. One project I converted was in PHP before, so I can't accurately speak to performance (obviously feels fast), but development speeds have increased greatly with IntelliSense vs a text-editor. Another project, I had a C++ console application that sort of needed to become a web application but wasn't worth the effort of rewriting. In relatively short order, I had a .Net Core web application using interop services to call the dll. I was later chided by some C# purists that it could have been rewritten in C#, but it was still cool to see how easy it was. Ten years ago when I was starting out, Microsoft wasn't even a consideration when looking at toolsets, it was stodgy, expensive, and didn't run on a MacBook. Now, not only have they completely redesigned, and sold me on their development toolsets, but they've implemented an interesting alternative to AWS, and they've shifted my go-to machine from a Mac to a Windows machine. The turnaround is pretty remarkable (obviously they have remarkable resources, but still). I sort of want Michael Lewis, or someone, to write a book about the last decade at Microsoft.
- Yhippa 9y agoWhy did you select .NET Core versus other technologies?
- jefe_ 9y agoIt made sense throughout the whole stack. We're right on the edge of small-midsized, so we need to find technologies which our people know or can easily learn. Database level, our DBAs are very SQL Server oriented and all of our primary data stores are such, the ORM for .NET Core, Entity Framework plays very well with it. This was probably the biggest factor. It has a decent Redis library. Application Level, it is a managed runtime, strongly typed, performant, with a strong ecosystem of libraries. We're running calculations on data so out of the box performance is important. Scaffolding models into Controllers and Views is handled very well, along with migrations. Strong facilities for serializing and parsing Json & XML. Nice interfaces for integrating email and SMS services. It has a secure, extensible authorization framework (Identity Server). It has a strong debugger, when you make a typo, you know right away, so you can cut out the vast majority of issues by the time you're running it. Easily share class libraries across projects with a private NuGet repository. A nice implementation to get metadata in System.Reflection along with intuitive handling of generics. Support for lambda expressions and functionalish behaviors. Carefully considered implementations of asynchrony and parallelism. For front-end tools I'm not as up to speed, but browsersync is built in, so that is running without any configuration. They have automatic minification of css and javascript on build, and some tools to work with Angular, Vue, React, etc. as well as an emmet clone which allows you to use emmet shorthand when generating html. Dev Ops, the Visual Studio IDE is really comfortable for a wide range of people. Strong integration with GitHub & Docker.
- pantalaimon 9y agoDoes .NET Core also include a cross platform GUI toolkit? (Windows.Forms and WPF come to mind) If not, what toolkit would be recommended these days for this purpose?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Nelkins 9y agohttps://github.com/AvaloniaUI/Avalonia https://github.com/AvaloniaUI/Avalonia
- asp_net 9y agoNot specificly .NET Core, but Xamarin is already available for macOS and is, afaik, actively working on Xamarin.Forms coming to desktop, including Linux.
- alykhalid 9y agoBlog post announcing this feature https://blog.xamarin.com/glimpse-future-xamarin-forms-3-0/ https://blog.xamarin.com/glimpse-future-xamarin-forms-3-0/
- doctoboggan 9y agoWe use Eto.Forms for our cross platform dotnet core app. https://github.com/picoe/Eto https://github.com/picoe/Eto
- pknopf 9y agoI am currently working on a .NET Core/Mono integration with QML. https://github.com/pauldotknopf/net-core-qml https://github.com/pauldotknopf/net-core-qml The idea is to only have bindings for QML engine and it's parts, with the ability to use .NET objects (properties, signals, slots, methods) with vice-vera (using dynamic). It is very much in the early stages, but to me, the idea seems very promising.
- SiVal 9y agoI wish I had a better sense of where cross-platform desktop app platforms stood these days: Electron, Java, .NET, QT. All I hear are "Eww, Electron is ridiculous, slow, heavy Web junk for desktop", "Eww Java is blub, insecure, and half-abandoned by Oracle", "Eww, .NET is Microsoft and unreliable for anything serious on non-MS OSes", "Eww, by the time you pay the license, learn QT, learn the odd variant of C++, and manually deal with different bugs on every platform, you discover you would have been better off using the OS makers' preferred tech on each," and so on. It's hard to tell how much of this emotional reaction is due to current reality, how much is leftover from old experiences that are no longer relevant, how much is just language preference (not platform quality), etc. I could just try them all, but my experience years ago was that the cross-platform tech, when it worked, made things easy at first, but that final 5% of your code was always trying to find hacks to do what no one had ever tried before--very time consuming and risky (no guarantee of success). So "trying them all" won't really give me a true sense of where the technologies are in reality. There's no rush in my case, but I do wish I had a more realistic sense of what the various desktop dev technologies were like these days in case I ever go back to it.
- cormacrelf 9y agoI wasn't aware .NET Core 2.0 had anything to do with desktop apps?
- pknopf 9y agoNot at the moment, but I am looking to bridge that gap. https://github.com/pauldotknopf/net-core-qml https://github.com/pauldotknopf/net-core-qml The idea is to only have bindings for QML engine and it's parts, with the ability to use .NET objects (properties, signals, slots, methods) with vice-vera (using dynamic). It is very much in the early stages, but to me, the idea seems very promising.
- hacker_9 9y agoEvery technology has it's problems, and you should be careful what you use as your source of information. Always do your own research when choosing a new technology to fit your needs best, and talk to other people/consultants who have experience in this area and can point out problems before you commit to anything.
- sandGorgon 9y agoWhy are there so few new languages built on the .NET platform ? This is a genuine question - is there something about the JVM that gives rise to such vibrant ecosystems. Clojure, Scala, Kotlin, Groovy, JRuby : Most importantly, every one of them is in production use - not just as toy/experimental languages. And we havent even opened the Pandora's box that is Java 9+Truffle. There's a lot of broscience that .NET is superior to the JVM - is that on sheer performance only ?
- hacker_9 9y agoOK well .Net has Clojure, F#, C#, VB and Rosyln (compiler as a service). CLR vs JVM wise; both are highly optimized virtual machines with years of man hours behind each of them.
- Scarbutt 9y agoMy guess would be because Microsoft technologies were to tied to windows. If you, a non-corporate entity is creating a new programming language with aiming at being mainstream, why would you choose a closed non-multiplatorm ecosystem? Also, the JVM is better suited (much better performance) for running dynamically typed code. You also seem to be confirming .Net has "superior performance" over the JVM, from where do you get that? .Net still has a long way to go to in being as mature/battle-test as the JVM is in linux IMO.
- jahewson 9y agoThere are plenty of languages built on the CLR [1], including variants of Clojure, Python, and Ruby. Then there's the "official" languages: C#, C++/CLI, VB.NET, JScript.net. I suspect what's going on is that 1) unlike Java C# has actually evolved so the need for "escape hatch" languages is lesser, and 2) .NET developers want to use languages with rich Visual Studio tooling. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CLI_languages https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CLI_languages
- GordonS 9y agoDon't forget F#!
- raziel2p 9y agoTrying to get it working on Linux, I had to manually fix some permission errors, and now am stuck on this helpful error message: No executable found matching command "dotnet-net" Not a great experience, especially since I was able to get 1.1 working quite easily.
- dvfjsdhgfv 9y agoDoes someone has some experience running .NET Core on Linux? Any problems/experiences you could share?
- manigandham 9y agoWe've been running high-traffic production services for months, everything's been great. Leaner faster apps running on smaller, cheaper Linux VMs and containers. No problems encountered. For running typical webapps and services, the existing .NET APIs were already good enough and now we have pretty much everything else available.
- adrianlmm 9y agoI find weird that Asp.NET Core 2.0 was announced before .NET Core 2.0
- terrajobst 9y agoAll within hours. Basically, they all shipped at the same time. Blog posts were manually published. There is no order implied.
- disease 9y agoAm I misunderstanding something, or does Entity Framework Core, even at version 2.0, not support translating LINQ code into GROUP BY in the generated SQL? That seems so unbelievable that I figure I have to be wrong here.
- LyalinDotCom 9y agoFor those of you who are using VSTS: CI/CD or VSTS: Build please note that we're still updating our hosted build image but that should be done in the next few days. We'll also be sure to update the docs here with the list of what is supported: https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/docs/build/concepts/agents/hosted#software https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/docs/build/concepts/agent...
- styfle 9y agoI just realized that Hosted VS2017 is still using Visual Studio 2017 (15.1 Update). That's two versions behind now. When is it going to get the 15.3 update?
- pi-rat 9y ago- CI/CD support for containers Anyone know what that's about?
- WhitneyLand 9y agoPerfect example of a strong technology that has really been hurt by strategic errors. Whatever success .NET did have, it was still largely pigeonholed as just something for Microsoft stack devotees. There was no technical reason the essence of the new core version couldn't have been a priority 20 years ago. Not only cross platform and open source, but acting earlier and more aggressively to dispel patent trap mistrust. It cost precious momentum. No doubt hindsight makes it easy to say all this now, but there was still an issue of entrenched thinking about the way things had always been before, combined with a circle the wagons mentality. One part of it I think was easy to see, was that free high quality development tools should have been widely available day one. How does it make any sense for a company to try and make $5000 off of a copy of visual studio, at the expense of platform momentum that is driving $200 billion a year in revenue?
- pjmlp 9y ago20 years ago there was Rotor (aka Shared Source CLI), but it was another management in place. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749640.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749640.aspx
- locusm 9y agoWhats support like for non MSSQL databases these days like? Can MySQL & Postgres be easily hooked up and used??
- mosen 9y agoI'ved used http://www.npgsql.org/ http://www.npgsql.org/ to great effect.
- junto 9y agoWith "Live Unit Testing Support" it seems that NCrunch is about to become redundant. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/test/live-unit-testing https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/test/live-unit... http://www.ncrunch.net/ http://www.ncrunch.net/