9 ms·

What's interesting about these concept cars, is that they sometimes get built if they generate enough interest. I believe this is how the new VW Beetle came abo

by awjr 9y ago

What's interesting about these concept cars, is that they sometimes get built if they generate enough interest. I believe this is how the new VW Beetle came about, and I suspect what nudged BMW to bring out the new mini. One that is in the process of making that leap right now: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/98136/volkswagen-boss-confirms-id-buzz-concept-to-make-production http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/98136/volkswagen-bos... I do wonder if the reason concept 'updated' models are more likely to be made is there is a huge amount of nostalgia at play in the market. As an aside, having owned a new Mini convertible, I can confirm it was probably the most fun I've had in a car. Felt like driving a go-kart. The suspension is ridiculously hard. Completely horrible car to be a passenger in but so so so much fun to drive. Apparently very close to the original.

cjsuk 9y ago
I borrowed my mother's (edit 1968) Mini for a week, after my Land Rover series 3 fell to bits. This was mid-1990s. The suspension was unpleasant and painful to anyone in the vehicle. It was hard as nails. Definitely fun, until you accidentally lose it going around a roundabout at which point your sense of mortality re-appears and you wish you were driving anything else.
- hollander 9y ago
  Go back another 100 years, and think about the vehicles and their suspension (probably leather bands?), and then realize that there were no asphalt roads, only dirt roads with holes and rocks. Then go back several hundred years, when carriages had no suspension at all. How did people handle that? Speed was probably the big difference. Plus what else was there? The only alternative was walking or maybe travel by horse or mule. So that 1968 Mini was probably very OK for that time, with careful driving, and a tougher ass.
  - lucaspiller 9y ago
    Speed was the big difference. It's interesting that speed limits in the U.K. haven't increased since the first motorway was opened in 1958, yet cars have got a lot safer. I wonder if autonomous vehicles will change that...
    - simias 9y ago
      Human reaction times haven't increased, that's probably the main issue with speed. It's also not generally very eco-friendly to drive faster, so I doubt limits are going to increase regardless of safety.
    - Lio 9y ago
      When the first UK motorway, the M1, opened it had no speed limit. When the speed limit was introduced, in 1965, it was originally a temporary measure to reduce excessive fuel consumption. The non-motorway speed limit was again reduced in 1974 for the same reason [1]. (Sorry I can't find a citation for the introduction of the first motorway speed limits off hand). http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/15/newsid_2559000/2559807.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/15...
      - KineticLensman 9y ago
        > a citation for the introduction of the first motorway speed limits in the UK, 25 November 1965 [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_United_Kingdom#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_Unite...
      - wyager 9y ago
        Fascinating. I wonder if it's possible to control for improved car safety when looking at the decreasing risk of driving over time; did speed limits make highways/motorways safer or more dangerous? I recall reading that (counter-intuitively), removing stop signs from a residential area made it safer, and I wonder if the same is true for speed limits. Maybe if people weren't given a suggestion of how fast to drive, they would be more likely to drive within their personal safety limit (whether that be faster or slower).
        gsnedders 9y ago
        > Maybe if people weren't given a suggestion of how fast to drive, they would be more likely to drive within their personal safety limit (whether that be faster or slower). I have the impression that this is very different in most of Europe compared with most of the places in the US I've driven: in the US, most roads have a speed limit ultimately set to the lower of what's politically acceptable and what an engineering is willing to sign off on as safe, AFAIK; in most parts of Europe, there are two or three standard speed limits (urban, rural, highway) that apply everywhere and speed limits are only altered downwards if there's a stretch that's a particular crash hotspot. For example, I've been down plenty of narrow roads around the UK where the speed limit was the standard 60mph, but good luck going more than 20mph even if you know the road well. As such, you're already expected to use personal judgement. By comparison, all of the rural roads in the US I've driven down that were at all tight had speed limits like 20 or 30mph, and if anything they were set lower than I would've driven down them had they been higher.
  - pilsetnieks 9y ago
    There was the leaf spring suspension: https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/36259/from-when-did-carriages-have-leaf-springs https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/36259/from-when-...
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - Angostura 9y ago
      Still used in my old MGB
      - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
        And basically every truck and van.
- the-dude 9y ago
  Just like the original.
  - cjsuk 9y ago
    This was the original :) Was a 1968 one. I should have clarified that!
- danieltillett 9y ago
  The original minis are such death traps I am surprised when ever I see one on the road - firstly how is anyone foolhardy enough to drive one and secondly how did it manage to survive to 2017.
  - gsnedders 9y ago
    It's worth noting that the last one came off the production line in October 2000; the later ones surviving isn't that much an accomplishment. (And yes, it may well be the case the majority of Minis produced had been scrapped before the last was one produced!)
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    It's hard to be worse than a VW van but the British gave it their best shot.
  - gambiting 9y ago
    Say hello to Fiat 126, still a semi-common sight on Polish roads. When I was a kid my parents had one and I remember it fitting 5 people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_126 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_126
    - cjsuk 9y ago
      Better than a Trabant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S8idecb8Ek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S8idecb8Ek
      - abawany 9y ago
        <spoiler>A similar thing happened to a Mini on a Top Gear episode filmed in India.</spoiler>
    - dingaling 9y ago
      A friend had a 126, each morning he would load the four schoolchildren by the door and then roll-back the canvas top and pass-in their schoolbags. It was also quicker to reverse by putting a foot out the door than flapping the stick around the mushy gearbox trying to find reverse gear.
LoSboccacc 9y ago
it was how the Alfa Montreal came to be, it was originally meant as a prototype to generate interest but there was so much demand they went into a production run, albeit they had to change so many things to get it on the road.
regularfry 9y ago
The new Mini project was originally Rover. BMW effectively bought it and finished it off with bits of the 3 series. If I had to speculate, I'd say the Mini project was a hail-mary for a company in a deep hole. It might have worked, too, if the timing had been better.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Peugeot was in a similar situation a while before that and they 206 saved the company, it really could have worked. But I don't know if their quality control was up to it, BMW seems to have made a big difference there.
- ollie87 9y ago
  Which 3-Series bits?
  - mschaef 9y ago
    You see more explicit sharing these days than then. The Mini Countryman and BMW X1 both share the same platform. (And it's front wheel drive, at that, which is a big shift for BMW.)
  - regularfry 9y ago
    The body electronics was mostly the same. Many shared parts, and the same buses. That's the bit I worked on, so my knowledge of how much of the rest of the car was carried across is a bit more limited.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
masklinn 9y ago
> What's interesting about these concept cars, is that they sometimes get built if they generate enough interest. I believe this is how the new VW Beetle came about, and I suspect what nudged BMW to bring out the new mini. Audi TT, Peugeot 206 CC, Chevy Volt, Ford's new GT40, the New Beetle (Concept One), BMW's i8 (EfficientDynamics), the Boxster, the Model S was originally a concept/show car. These are usually the tamer concept cars though.
- freehunter 9y ago
  >Chevy Volt Oh man I was so disappointed when I saw the production Chevy Volt. It looked nothing like the concept. The concept was a cool Camaro-inspired design and had the Volt looking like a small hybrid muscle car. It was such a good looking car... and then they released a knock-off of the Prius design.
  - samstave 9y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt#Concept_vehicle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt#Concept_vehic...
- Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
  Citroen C3 Pluriel: http://www.convertiblecarmagazine.com/buyers_guide/citroen-c3-pluriel/ http://www.convertiblecarmagazine.com/buyers_guide/citroen-c... Similar to the concept, but if anything with an even more refined design. I had one (long-time Citroen fan) and absolutely loved it. It was essentially a 2CV for the modern age: a small family hatchback which did double service as pickup, convertible and coupe. It lasted a few years in Citroen's lineup but was never a big seller, thanks partly to worries about water ingress and various other mechanical eccentricities. But I still think it's one of the purest designs this design-led car company has ever produced: a profile that reduced to two simple curves, concealing a design that was all about utility and never about performance.
- cr0sh 9y ago
  The Isuzu VehiCROSS was a concept car, too - what actually sold was almost identical to the concept (IIRC, there were a couple of side fender vents eliminated, and not much else). If you've never driven one, you don't know the fun you're missing. I describe it as a vehicle that either "is an off-road beast that thinks it's a sports car" or "a sports car that knows it's an off-road beast". I say it like that because I'm one of the "lucky owners". It has pretty great handling for a vehicle of its nature. Even with a small lift and 32" MTs, it takes corners like on rails. While it isn't really a "sports car", for an off-road vehicle it doesn't do too bad in the "get-up-n-go" area. Much better than my I6 jeep. It's a very unique vehicle, and I can't imagine not driving or owning it... /between it and my jeep, my wallet screams for mercy...
pbhjpbhj 9y ago
There was an original Mini parked outside my house for the last few days, it really strikes you how small it is compared to modern cars. My sister had a Mini, it was really bare-metal. The modern Mini I drove last year felt like an armchair, a very very different experience for me.
samstave 9y ago
"Capacitive touch steering wheel" So what features are out of reach when one dons their driving gloves
woobar 9y ago
Cadillac Evoq from 1999 not only went into production as XLR, but it is also defined Cadillac's design for the next ~20 years.
kwhitefoot 9y ago
The new Mini owes nothing but a vaguely similar shape to Alec Issigonis' original. I had two Minis, a van (1965 model) and a Traveller (1970-ish). They were both great cars to drive and the ride was not especially hard. I never felt particularly unsafe or uncomfortable driving either of them and none of my passengers exhibited any signs of worry either. They were also astonishingly roomy when you consider how much smaller they are than the BMW version.

by awjr 9y ago

cjsuk 9y ago

I borrowed my mother's (edit 1968) Mini for a week, after my Land Rover series 3 fell to bits. This was mid-1990s. The suspension was unpleasant and painful to anyone in the vehicle. It was hard as nails. Definitely fun, until you accidentally lose it going around a roundabout at which point your sense of mortality re-appears and you wish you were driving anything else.

hollander 9y ago
Go back another 100 years, and think about the vehicles and their suspension (probably leather bands?), and then realize that there were no asphalt roads, only dirt roads with holes and rocks. Then go back several hundred years, when carriages had no suspension at all. How did people handle that? Speed was probably the big difference. Plus what else was there? The only alternative was walking or maybe travel by horse or mule. So that 1968 Mini was probably very OK for that time, with careful driving, and a tougher ass.
- lucaspiller 9y ago
  Speed was the big difference. It's interesting that speed limits in the U.K. haven't increased since the first motorway was opened in 1958, yet cars have got a lot safer. I wonder if autonomous vehicles will change that...
  - simias 9y ago
    Human reaction times haven't increased, that's probably the main issue with speed. It's also not generally very eco-friendly to drive faster, so I doubt limits are going to increase regardless of safety.
  - Lio 9y ago
    When the first UK motorway, the M1, opened it had no speed limit. When the speed limit was introduced, in 1965, it was originally a temporary measure to reduce excessive fuel consumption. The non-motorway speed limit was again reduced in 1974 for the same reason [1]. (Sorry I can't find a citation for the introduction of the first motorway speed limits off hand). http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/15/newsid_2559000/2559807.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/15...
    - KineticLensman 9y ago
      > a citation for the introduction of the first motorway speed limits in the UK, 25 November 1965 [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_United_Kingdom#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_Unite...
    - wyager 9y ago
      Fascinating. I wonder if it's possible to control for improved car safety when looking at the decreasing risk of driving over time; did speed limits make highways/motorways safer or more dangerous? I recall reading that (counter-intuitively), removing stop signs from a residential area made it safer, and I wonder if the same is true for speed limits. Maybe if people weren't given a suggestion of how fast to drive, they would be more likely to drive within their personal safety limit (whether that be faster or slower).
      - gsnedders 9y ago
        > Maybe if people weren't given a suggestion of how fast to drive, they would be more likely to drive within their personal safety limit (whether that be faster or slower). I have the impression that this is very different in most of Europe compared with most of the places in the US I've driven: in the US, most roads have a speed limit ultimately set to the lower of what's politically acceptable and what an engineering is willing to sign off on as safe, AFAIK; in most parts of Europe, there are two or three standard speed limits (urban, rural, highway) that apply everywhere and speed limits are only altered downwards if there's a stretch that's a particular crash hotspot. For example, I've been down plenty of narrow roads around the UK where the speed limit was the standard 60mph, but good luck going more than 20mph even if you know the road well. As such, you're already expected to use personal judgement. By comparison, all of the rural roads in the US I've driven down that were at all tight had speed limits like 20 or 30mph, and if anything they were set lower than I would've driven down them had they been higher.
- pilsetnieks 9y ago
  There was the leaf spring suspension: https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/36259/from-when-did-carriages-have-leaf-springs https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/36259/from-when-...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - Angostura 9y ago
    Still used in my old MGB
    - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
      And basically every truck and van.
the-dude 9y ago
Just like the original.
- cjsuk 9y ago
  This was the original :) Was a 1968 one. I should have clarified that!
danieltillett 9y ago
The original minis are such death traps I am surprised when ever I see one on the road - firstly how is anyone foolhardy enough to drive one and secondly how did it manage to survive to 2017.
- gsnedders 9y ago
  It's worth noting that the last one came off the production line in October 2000; the later ones surviving isn't that much an accomplishment. (And yes, it may well be the case the majority of Minis produced had been scrapped before the last was one produced!)
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  It's hard to be worse than a VW van but the British gave it their best shot.
- gambiting 9y ago
  Say hello to Fiat 126, still a semi-common sight on Polish roads. When I was a kid my parents had one and I remember it fitting 5 people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_126 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_126
  - cjsuk 9y ago
    Better than a Trabant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S8idecb8Ek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S8idecb8Ek
    - abawany 9y ago
      <spoiler>A similar thing happened to a Mini on a Top Gear episode filmed in India.</spoiler>
  - dingaling 9y ago
    A friend had a 126, each morning he would load the four schoolchildren by the door and then roll-back the canvas top and pass-in their schoolbags. It was also quicker to reverse by putting a foot out the door than flapping the stick around the mushy gearbox trying to find reverse gear.

LoSboccacc 9y ago

it was how the Alfa Montreal came to be, it was originally meant as a prototype to generate interest but there was so much demand they went into a production run, albeit they had to change so many things to get it on the road.

regularfry 9y ago

The new Mini project was originally Rover. BMW effectively bought it and finished it off with bits of the 3 series. If I had to speculate, I'd say the Mini project was a hail-mary for a company in a deep hole. It might have worked, too, if the timing had been better.

jacquesm 9y ago
Peugeot was in a similar situation a while before that and they 206 saved the company, it really could have worked. But I don't know if their quality control was up to it, BMW seems to have made a big difference there.
ollie87 9y ago
Which 3-Series bits?
- mschaef 9y ago
  You see more explicit sharing these days than then. The Mini Countryman and BMW X1 both share the same platform. (And it's front wheel drive, at that, which is a big shift for BMW.)
- regularfry 9y ago
  The body electronics was mostly the same. Many shared parts, and the same buses. That's the bit I worked on, so my knowledge of how much of the rest of the car was carried across is a bit more limited.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

masklinn 9y ago

> What's interesting about these concept cars, is that they sometimes get built if they generate enough interest. I believe this is how the new VW Beetle came about, and I suspect what nudged BMW to bring out the new mini. Audi TT, Peugeot 206 CC, Chevy Volt, Ford's new GT40, the New Beetle (Concept One), BMW's i8 (EfficientDynamics), the Boxster, the Model S was originally a concept/show car. These are usually the tamer concept cars though.

freehunter 9y ago
>Chevy Volt Oh man I was so disappointed when I saw the production Chevy Volt. It looked nothing like the concept. The concept was a cool Camaro-inspired design and had the Volt looking like a small hybrid muscle car. It was such a good looking car... and then they released a knock-off of the Prius design.
- samstave 9y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt#Concept_vehicle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt#Concept_vehic...
Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
Citroen C3 Pluriel: http://www.convertiblecarmagazine.com/buyers_guide/citroen-c3-pluriel/ http://www.convertiblecarmagazine.com/buyers_guide/citroen-c... Similar to the concept, but if anything with an even more refined design. I had one (long-time Citroen fan) and absolutely loved it. It was essentially a 2CV for the modern age: a small family hatchback which did double service as pickup, convertible and coupe. It lasted a few years in Citroen's lineup but was never a big seller, thanks partly to worries about water ingress and various other mechanical eccentricities. But I still think it's one of the purest designs this design-led car company has ever produced: a profile that reduced to two simple curves, concealing a design that was all about utility and never about performance.
cr0sh 9y ago
The Isuzu VehiCROSS was a concept car, too - what actually sold was almost identical to the concept (IIRC, there were a couple of side fender vents eliminated, and not much else). If you've never driven one, you don't know the fun you're missing. I describe it as a vehicle that either "is an off-road beast that thinks it's a sports car" or "a sports car that knows it's an off-road beast". I say it like that because I'm one of the "lucky owners". It has pretty great handling for a vehicle of its nature. Even with a small lift and 32" MTs, it takes corners like on rails. While it isn't really a "sports car", for an off-road vehicle it doesn't do too bad in the "get-up-n-go" area. Much better than my I6 jeep. It's a very unique vehicle, and I can't imagine not driving or owning it... /between it and my jeep, my wallet screams for mercy...

pbhjpbhj 9y ago

There was an original Mini parked outside my house for the last few days, it really strikes you how small it is compared to modern cars. My sister had a Mini, it was really bare-metal. The modern Mini I drove last year felt like an armchair, a very very different experience for me.

samstave 9y ago

"Capacitive touch steering wheel" So what features are out of reach when one dons their driving gloves

woobar 9y ago

Cadillac Evoq from 1999 not only went into production as XLR, but it is also defined Cadillac's design for the next ~20 years.

kwhitefoot 9y ago

The new Mini owes nothing but a vaguely similar shape to Alec Issigonis' original. I had two Minis, a van (1965 model) and a Traveller (1970-ish). They were both great cars to drive and the ride was not especially hard. I never felt particularly unsafe or uncomfortable driving either of them and none of my passengers exhibited any signs of worry either. They were also astonishingly roomy when you consider how much smaller they are than the BMW version.