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As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and ha

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take out a rounded bill/note (say $20) - Cashier takes the bill/note, punches in the register and then spends a few seconds giving you the change back. Credit card workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You swipe card/insert in chip reader - Done

tylershuster 9y ago
*Credit card workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You swipe card/insert in chip reader - You avoid making eye contact while the transaction is processed - (optional) The card reader fails and requests reinsertion. Repeat previous two steps - Done
- herbst 9y ago
  You missed the part when they are in holidays in Europa or Asia and realize that American whatever credit card is usually not accepted and they begin shouting at everyone what kind of third world country this is. Disclaimer: I've seen exactly this a few times
pantalaimon 9y ago
> Credit card workflow: > - Cashier tells you the total amount > - You look in your wallet/purse > - You swipe card/insert in chip reader > - Done You forgot the part where you have to enter you PIN and wait for the transaction to go through, or sign the receipt.
- fleg 9y ago
  Contactless payments don't need PIN (up to some small but comfortable amount) and go through almost instantly.
  - wongarsu 9y ago
    But Germans don't trust contactless payment because in theory anybody could hold a card reader against your wallet while you're innocently waiting in some line.
    - Symbiote 9y ago
      And just what would they do with it? That seems an easy way to get your merchant account cancelled very, very quickly.
      - herbst 9y ago
        But why would they care? Stripe does payments every 3 days or so and you can easily create more accounts. I never ever checked my credit card history, and I assume many people who only use it as secondary payment system don't. It's easy as fuck therefore IMO a valid scenario.
        Symbiote 9y ago
        Without the CVC code, Stripe isn't going to accept the payment. Even if it did, the bank is likely to block the transaction, or call/text for verification.
        jhasse 9y ago
        > CVC code I heard that those are very easy to crack. It might have been this article from 2011 where I read about this (German, sorry): http://www.zeit.de/2011/21/Kreditkarten-Sicherheit http://www.zeit.de/2011/21/Kreditkarten-Sicherheit
        9y ago
- codegeek 9y ago
  Another difference between American and other systems. Credit cards in US don't have PIN numbers. Only Debit cards have PIN.
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    Yeah, but you have to sign, which is worse.
  - planteen 9y ago
    They do have PINs, just most people don't know what they are. You can use the PIN to withdraw cash from an ATM at a ridiculous interest rate. I recently was using my credit card in Iceland at a gas pump where I was prompted for a PIN.
- hobo_mark 9y ago
  That's because, as I was shocked to find out, most POS in the US don't ask for a PIN! Convenient indeed, until someone gets ahold of your card.
  - codegeek 9y ago
    Almost all credit cards are 0 liability to the consumer. Even if someone gets a hold of my card, I can call the credit card company and get all fraud charges reversed. That's why I personally always use a credit card EVERYWHERE. I hate cash and I hate to wait in lines. But sure, they have an electronic trail on me which frankly, I don't care too much about. If the Govt wants to get you, they WILL get you.
    - pmoriarty 9y ago
      "Almost all credit cards are 0 liability to the consumer. Even if someone gets a hold of my card, I can call the credit card company and get all fraud charges reversed." That's true only if you or the credit card company notice the fraudulent transactions and act on them within the limited grace period, which I believe is something like 3 months. Many people don't actually keep their receipts or reconcile them with their credit card statement. So unless they get an unexpectedly huge credit card bill, they might not even notice that they were victims of fraud and in that case the "0 liability" credit card policies are worthless, because they get defrauded anyway.
  - planteen 9y ago
    Americans are used to entering PINs on debit cards, but not credit. However, in my recent experience in Iceland & Germany, most POS don't ask for a PIN on credit transactions either. The only time I was asked for a PIN on a credit card was at a gas pump.
    - herbst 9y ago
      That however is because of your American card and not the POS systems usually not asking. I have to verify any transaction over 20$ with my Swiss credit card for example. Even on contactless
- anarazel 9y ago
  You commonly don't have to do that for small transactions in your usual country.
conanbatt 9y ago
In america prices are always cent-specific (2.85, 3.78). Berlin, much like Argentina (cash strong markets) have rounded prices for everything, its actually much faster. What ist errible is the waste of time going to an atm frequently, or handling lots of petty coins or bills. Cards are definitely more convenient.
- zip1234 9y ago
  In Germany the price advertised is the price paid. Not so in America due to taxes and fees.
  - memco 9y ago
    One thing I like about Square from an independent merchant standpoint is that I can mark that an item's price should be considered to include all relevant taxes & fees. This allows for listing prices in round increments. This is more helpful for cash transactions because most people only cary bills so I mostly only have bills to hand back as change. It is easier for me to deal in whole dollar or at least quarter increments so I never have to worry about pennies, nickels or dimes. For cards, I can charge arbitrary amounts and it doesn't affect me or the customer at all. Granted, you have to do a little math up front for each item to ensure you're getting the right profit per sale, but it's negligible to the amount saved by not having to count change.
  - ApolloFortyNine 9y ago
    Germany has the VAT, they just require that vendors hide it from the consumer.
    - germanier 9y ago
      "Hide" as in "the calculation is done in multiple lines on each receipt with the amount of VAT clearly spelled out"? Germany has some hidden taxes in the supermarket (on alcohol, tobacco, and coffee) but VAT is absolutely visible.
    - lobster_johnson 9y ago
wongarsu 9y ago
In a German supermarket there are two notable differences: People pay with rounded bills most of the time, cashiers are fast at returning change (amounts are usually a single cent below the full euro for each item, so change isn't a big problem). The credit card workflow requires you to sign as well (or alternatively sometimes your pin if it's a debit card). Also, no swiping, only chip readers. So in essence, taking out the bills is comparable to taking out your card, and the question is whether signing/entering pin is faster than the cashier giving you your change. Of course occasionally you will pay in exact change, but that's balanced out by all the times you have to insert your card a second time, followed by trying another card.
- antouank 9y ago
  Say hello to contactless https://www.visa.co.uk/products/visa-contactless/ https://www.visa.co.uk/products/visa-contactless/ Standard on most bank cards in the UK. No pin or anything. Tap it on the machine and you go. Takes 2 seconds at most. Still, I do hold cash sometimes, you do need it in some cases.
  - aembleton 9y ago
    I'm sure I've used this in Germany many times at Lidl and other supermarkets.
    - TillE 9y ago
      NFC payment has been rolling out more and more over the past couple years. Edeka is probably the biggest exception, I'm waiting very impatiently for them to catch up.
      - germanier 9y ago
        Edeka is (despite its appearance) not a chain but just a common brand used by lots of independent merchants without many rules[0]. Some Edeka stores therefore introduced contactless payments years ago, some never will. Best is to talk to the owner (they usually just have one or a few stores) – I have been successful with "mine". [0]: In contrast to e.g. Rewe which is also mostly operated by independent merchants but has strict rules for those.
fh973 9y ago
For many people credit card payment also means: - verify statement at the end of the month. Which is annoying and time-consuming.
jasonkostempski 9y ago
Parting with your money shouldn't be easy :)
guelo 9y ago
I find the workflow with the new chip cards much less convenient to the point that I'm starting to prefer cash or Android Pay if it's available. Even though I lose the 2% cashback bribe.
- tbomb 9y ago
  Which card is that, that takes away the incentive? I use Apple Pay pretty frequently and still get my cashback rate, or double points incentives on the cards that I use.
  - tehwebguy 9y ago
    Among others the Citi Double Cash, earned in 2 steps: 1% earned when spending 1% earned when paying the bill Cashback is not immediately applied to the balance so it's actually 2% and not something like 1.9999999. No annual fee but it's not really worth it to apply for this card per se, better to get another card that comes with a signup bonus (this one never does) and "product change" it to this card by calling in.
  - guelo 9y ago
    You're right, I worded that poorly. I meant only for when I pay with cash I lose the 2%.
pmoriarty 9y ago
Not only that, but you also have to either carry your small coins around so you can use them up or you have to collect them and then redeem them all for bills or deposit them. This is a royal pain. I have so much change lying around the house that I haven't bothered to count and redeem. On the other hand, if you use credit cards, you would ideally be keeping receipts and then reconciling them to the statements you get from your credit card company to make sure there's no fraud and no errors in billing. Some people have the discipline to do that, but many don't. With credit cards it's easier to overspend. Not only can you perhaps too easily borrow more than you have in the bank with a credit card, but temporarily giving someone a card that you get back right away or giving them a credit card number doesn't have the same psychological impact as permanently and irrevocably giving someone your hard-earned cash. So people are tempted to spend more when using credit cards. Finally, there's the issue of being tracked. When you use credit, at the very least the credit card company knows where and when you shop and possibly what you buy. With cash you could have more privacy in this respect.
- _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
  Every evening I put all spare change from my trouser pockets into a large glass jar next to the door. Once a year I reedem the money and have a really nice dinner.
  - pmoriarty 9y ago
    Do you count the change before you redeem it? That is a huge time-suck for me, and I hate doing it. Also, I feel really bad for the cashiers that are unlucky enough to have all that change dumped on them and are forced to count it all. Some banks have change counting machines, but surprisingly, many don't and the change is still counted by hand while you wait.
    - galvin 9y ago
      If you get bags for change (like shops use) and split everything by denomination and amount it makes it a little easier.
_Codemonkeyism 9y ago
Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - I get a 10 EUR note from my trouser pocket - Cashier gives back money - I put money in trouser pocket - Done - Home: I put all spare money in a large glass jar Credit card workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You swipe card/insert in chip reader - You insert PIN number - You shield your PIN entrie from the people next to you - You tell people too close to back off - Chip reader did not work because of humidity - You insert PIN again - You tolerate the angry stares from people behind you who think you're either stupid or broke - You wait 5 sec for transaction to fish - You put card back in wallet - You put wallet back in trouser pocket - Done
- rubicon33 9y ago
  Credit cards don't require a PIN. Just get a credit card and pay it off every month. Free points!
  - sp332 9y ago
    America has much higher "rewards" than anywhere else. The reward money comes straight out of merchant fees.
    - TheBeardKing 9y ago
      Exactly. I'll continue to use my card whenever possible to save at least 2% on every transaction. But this comes at the cost of getting my CC data stolen from shitty POSs 1-2 times a year. Small inconvenience, but worth it.
    - cosmie 9y ago
      The merchant fees do fund a substantial portion of the rewards programs for cards. However, there's a pretty large market for credit/debit card transaction data. Even Google purchases it[1]. Both your credit card company and the payment processors/networks themselves are able to monetize this data quite effectively. And the more complete people's transaction histories get the more effective this data becomes for different uses and the more the companies can charge for it. Depending on the demographic a particular card is able to capture, the transaction history may be valuable enough to run the rewards program at a loss or break even when looked at purely from the merchant fees recouped. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/05/23/google-now-knows-when-you-are-at-a-cash-register-and-how-much-you-are-spending/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/05/23...
praneshp 9y ago
At least in the five years that I've been in America, the credit card workflow is almost never like that. It's more like - Total amt - (After deciding which card is best) Get card out - Swipe, but piece of shit card reader complains, so retry. Or insert chip, then the piece of shit card reader makes the same sound for "wait" and "remove", sometimes cauing confusion. - Wait for piece of shit card reader to show up signature bar (or less commonly the cashier has to print out a receipt and have you sign it) - Done. I love credit card rewards though, but I'm not sure if it's a zero-sum game.
- koolba 9y ago
  You missed the step where the digital pen on a string doesn't work to sign the touch pad followed by using your finger.
davemp 9y ago
I've found cash to be much faster and more pleasent than card for eating out. - Waiter brings check - Leave cost + tip - Leave If you pay with card that's an extra trip from the waiter which can take a pretty long time.
- irrational 9y ago
  At the restaurants I frequent you can now either pay with an app on my phone or pay at a tablet/device that sits on the table. It is super convenient and so fast.
- Symbiote 9y ago
  In countries where paying by card is common, the waiter will assume this and bring the terminal. You can make it explicit, by having a card visible when you ask for the bill.
  - mod 9y ago
    Speaking for America, where it's common to pay by card, I have never had a waiter bring a terminal to the table. They take your card away and bring back a card receipt for you to sign & leave a tip on.
    - eric_h 9y ago
      The mobile card readers are very uncommon in the US. In Canada, they're everywhere.
    - adventured 9y ago
      Numerous large restaurant chains in the US (eg Olive Garden) have installed small interactive screens at every table that act as a terminal, that do other things including take orders. When your meal is finished you pay by card at the machine and leave (it prints your receipt as well). I would expect this premise to essentially spread everywhere among non-fast-food chains.
    - Symbiote 9y ago
      In Europe, pretty much every restaurant, and many bars and cafés, have portable card readers. (If they don't, then they don't take payment at the table.) There is no practical alternative, since the customer needs to input their PIN. Dishonest waiters used to be considered a common way for card details to be stolen. Example: https://www.paymentsense.co.uk/card-machines/portable/ https://www.paymentsense.co.uk/card-machines/portable/
mcrad 9y ago
I think it only takes standing in a few long lines to compare cash vs. card, to understand your analysis does not reflect reality(?)
stuaxo 9y ago
Just count your cash as you queue. Though that whole thing in the US of showing prices not including tax seems pretty wack, what's the point ?
haeffin 9y ago
In efficient stores (e.g. Aldi in Germany and branches in Switzerland and Austria) the cashiers start taking the change into the hand the moment you say you pay cash. They do that up to the next bill and if you pay with a higher bill, picking up extra bills from the registry is really fast. Whereas with a credit card you put the card in, wait until the remote system decides if you should use your PIN or signature, then either put the pin in or wait until the cashier gives you the thing to sign and sign it. And if you're really unlucky the store has a system that looks you up in their customer database if you pay by card which adds another couple seconds. The new contactless payment system is faster, unless the store does something stupid ... like wanting to do a customer database lookup before doing the actual transaction which one chain here in Austria unfortunately does.
- pishpash 9y ago
  You forget that American cashiers are incapable of arithmetic.
problems 9y ago
I found the whole swipe/insert thing really painfully slow and paid cash all the time. Now though we have NFC tap-to-pay in Canada and it's wicked fast in comparison to everything. No signature, no PIN entry, connections seem much faster.
gingerlime 9y ago
I'm surprised it's not mentioned on other comments, but in Japan, the whole thing is automated. The cashier feeds the cash notes / coins into a machine, and the machine spits out the exact change. It's super-fast, even when the cashier counts your change in front of your eyes, and lays it out neatly onto a tray[0]. I wonder how come these types of machines aren't more popular in other countries. [0] sounds like some super fancy concierge service, but it's pretty much standard, from 7-eleven to fancy stores
- Thlom 9y ago
  Pretty normal in Norway as well. Cashier feeds notes into machine, customer drops coins in coin machine. Usually pretty fast if the machine reads the coins/notes immediately.
- alasdair_ 9y ago
  This happens in grocery stores in the US but many other stores don't have enough volume to bother.
  - adventured 9y ago
    That has turned out to be the comedy of the cash systems in the US. As I noticed the cash readers / auto change makers being installed in a lot of locations, it was just in time to rarely be used due to the shift to everyone using cards.
amenghra 9y ago
One factor that contributes to making cash slower in USA is the fact that the price displayed isn't the price you have to pay (because of taxes added at checkout time). You end up having to handle random amount of small change for something that ended up being $10.21 (but advertised as $9.99). In most EU countries, the item would be priced at €10, you would pay with a €10 bill and move on.
DamnYuppie 9y ago
You obviously have never been to a Home Depot or Lowes on a weekend and watched in abject horror how long it takes most people to navigate the pin pad to complete their CC purchase! The speed with which the transaction is completed is 100% dependent on the ability of the card holder to navigate all the prompts. At most stores I now have to wade through 4-5 prompts for input before my transaction is complete, this takes up to 30 seconds. This is nowhere near as fast as cash is if one is prepared and has their money out.
nickpsecurity 9y ago
You're oversimplifying it. At some places (eg Subway), it was about 1 second timing for credit cards. At most stores, you would have to do things like say whether it was credit or debit, tell it yes/no to cash back, and tell it yes/no to whether amount is OK. All of them seemingly do it a different way. So, if you're used to it, the process might take several seconds. If you're not, significantly longer. Under Chip and PIN, you have that plus a several second wait in most places I go. Cashiers with decent performance will take a solid bill like a twenty and give you back your change in a few seconds. If you want to give specific amounts of change, that adds time but so does when you split credit cards to put specific amounts on them. If anything, the cards can take longer since the transactions are separate. Wise users of cash also already have most of their money ready for payment by the time the order is totaled since it saves them time. So, for most orders I see, the cash and credit take about the same time if customer is moving decent speed. The only difference is if the customer is moving slow for whatever reason (eg indecision or fumbling for stuff). That can happen with either but happens more for cash since credit users look for one item (the card).
jhasse 9y ago
> - You swipe card/insert in chip reader > > - Done In Germany you always have to insert your PIN or sign the bill if you want to pay by card (we use debit cards mostly, credit cards are very uncommon).
Perseids 9y ago
I've talked to an Aldi employee as of late and he said Aldi is proud to now have the fastest Card processing of all the German stores (within the regulatory limits: you have to put in your PIN or sign the receipts except for those fancy/scary NFC chips) and the Cash workflow is still faster, according to their own statistics. Consider that I already look into my purse while standing in line to get an overview of my available coins and that the cashier starts to collect the likely change the moment they tell you the total amount. This speeds up the process considerable compared to the – likely more cash-inexperienced if I follow your description – American cashiers. I can also second the opinion of many other commenters that the privacy implications of credit cards, especially the RFC ones which allow for invisible tracking, is a huge turn down of card payments in Germany. And last but not least, as a developer, I gotta vent some air and complain that credit cards payments are huge pain in the butt, because of all those pesky special cases that arise from fraud prevention and risk reduction. Which isn't necessary for any sane payment method which can collect money directly from your bank account without the possibility of any charge-backs. This is one of the core reasons which persuaded me a European Fintech Startup Scene is necessary, so that Stripe with its CreditCard-centric API doesn't stand uncompeted.
- germanier 9y ago
  I assume you talk about Aldi Süd? Their card handling is pretty fast and they can even start scanning the next customer's items while the machine is still processing. Aldi Nord on the other is hand is (while still faster than average) not particularly noteworthy.
- adventured 9y ago
  > This speeds up the process considerable compared to the – likely more cash-inexperienced if I follow your description – American cashiers. That doesn't make sense as a premise. The US wasn't lacking in experienced cashiers 15-20 years ago when cash was still king, nor today. There was a decade or more of time where the US rapidly transitioned from cash-heavy in stores over to card-heavy, the cards were universally faster unless the store ran a behind-the-counter swipe machine that the cashier had to use. The premise would have to be that in an economy with a super high GDP that has an extremely large service sector, America has especially slow cashiers everywhere (for no apparent reason given the extraordinary economic output overall). It's more than a reach.
larrysalibra 9y ago
As an American living in Hong Kong: Cash can be faster because you do know the total before hand since the price on the menu/price tag is what you pay. This is because there is no sales tax or tipping. Buying 3 items at HK$12 each? Your total is HK$36. If there's a queue I usually have my exact change ready before I'm to the front. In the US, you can rarely tell how much you'll pay since sales tax varies by county or sometimes by city. A side effect of this is weird totals like $23.76 that result in lots of hard to spend small change which also disincentivizes cash use.
vxNsr 9y ago
How about the NFC (Apple/Samsung Pay) workflow: - Tap phone (that's already in your hand because you were aimlessly swiping while standing in line) to terminal with finger on fingerprint reader while cashier is ringing up items - Tap confirm and sign once all items rung up
xbmcuser 9y ago
Here in Singapore they have started using automated cash machines the teller tells you the amount you feed it into the machine. The machine gives change. I use it for getting rid of all the coins once in a while and I don't have to count the coine just drop all the coins I have. If I drop in to much it I returns notes back if pposible. If the coins at a bank coin depositor they charge $0.01 per coin so if you are depositing at the bank you loose 10-20% for 5-10c coins.
antihero 9y ago
Contactless workflow: - You hold your card/device near the screen for about a second - It authorises in a few secs - Done

tylershuster 9y ago

*Credit card workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You swipe card/insert in chip reader - You avoid making eye contact while the transaction is processed - (optional) The card reader fails and requests reinsertion. Repeat previous two steps - Done

herbst 9y ago
You missed the part when they are in holidays in Europa or Asia and realize that American whatever credit card is usually not accepted and they begin shouting at everyone what kind of third world country this is. Disclaimer: I've seen exactly this a few times

pantalaimon 9y ago

> Credit card workflow: > - Cashier tells you the total amount > - You look in your wallet/purse > - You swipe card/insert in chip reader > - Done You forgot the part where you have to enter you PIN and wait for the transaction to go through, or sign the receipt.

fleg 9y ago
Contactless payments don't need PIN (up to some small but comfortable amount) and go through almost instantly.
- wongarsu 9y ago
  But Germans don't trust contactless payment because in theory anybody could hold a card reader against your wallet while you're innocently waiting in some line.
  - Symbiote 9y ago
    And just what would they do with it? That seems an easy way to get your merchant account cancelled very, very quickly.
    - herbst 9y ago
      But why would they care? Stripe does payments every 3 days or so and you can easily create more accounts. I never ever checked my credit card history, and I assume many people who only use it as secondary payment system don't. It's easy as fuck therefore IMO a valid scenario.
      - Symbiote 9y ago
        Without the CVC code, Stripe isn't going to accept the payment. Even if it did, the bank is likely to block the transaction, or call/text for verification.
        jhasse 9y ago
        > CVC code I heard that those are very easy to crack. It might have been this article from 2011 where I read about this (German, sorry): http://www.zeit.de/2011/21/Kreditkarten-Sicherheit http://www.zeit.de/2011/21/Kreditkarten-Sicherheit
        9y ago
codegeek 9y ago
Another difference between American and other systems. Credit cards in US don't have PIN numbers. Only Debit cards have PIN.
- StavrosK 9y ago
  Yeah, but you have to sign, which is worse.
- planteen 9y ago
  They do have PINs, just most people don't know what they are. You can use the PIN to withdraw cash from an ATM at a ridiculous interest rate. I recently was using my credit card in Iceland at a gas pump where I was prompted for a PIN.
hobo_mark 9y ago
That's because, as I was shocked to find out, most POS in the US don't ask for a PIN! Convenient indeed, until someone gets ahold of your card.
- codegeek 9y ago
  Almost all credit cards are 0 liability to the consumer. Even if someone gets a hold of my card, I can call the credit card company and get all fraud charges reversed. That's why I personally always use a credit card EVERYWHERE. I hate cash and I hate to wait in lines. But sure, they have an electronic trail on me which frankly, I don't care too much about. If the Govt wants to get you, they WILL get you.
  - pmoriarty 9y ago
    "Almost all credit cards are 0 liability to the consumer. Even if someone gets a hold of my card, I can call the credit card company and get all fraud charges reversed." That's true only if you or the credit card company notice the fraudulent transactions and act on them within the limited grace period, which I believe is something like 3 months. Many people don't actually keep their receipts or reconcile them with their credit card statement. So unless they get an unexpectedly huge credit card bill, they might not even notice that they were victims of fraud and in that case the "0 liability" credit card policies are worthless, because they get defrauded anyway.
- planteen 9y ago
  Americans are used to entering PINs on debit cards, but not credit. However, in my recent experience in Iceland & Germany, most POS don't ask for a PIN on credit transactions either. The only time I was asked for a PIN on a credit card was at a gas pump.
  - herbst 9y ago
    That however is because of your American card and not the POS systems usually not asking. I have to verify any transaction over 20$ with my Swiss credit card for example. Even on contactless
anarazel 9y ago
You commonly don't have to do that for small transactions in your usual country.

conanbatt 9y ago

In america prices are always cent-specific (2.85, 3.78). Berlin, much like Argentina (cash strong markets) have rounded prices for everything, its actually much faster. What ist errible is the waste of time going to an atm frequently, or handling lots of petty coins or bills. Cards are definitely more convenient.

zip1234 9y ago
In Germany the price advertised is the price paid. Not so in America due to taxes and fees.
- memco 9y ago
  One thing I like about Square from an independent merchant standpoint is that I can mark that an item's price should be considered to include all relevant taxes & fees. This allows for listing prices in round increments. This is more helpful for cash transactions because most people only cary bills so I mostly only have bills to hand back as change. It is easier for me to deal in whole dollar or at least quarter increments so I never have to worry about pennies, nickels or dimes. For cards, I can charge arbitrary amounts and it doesn't affect me or the customer at all. Granted, you have to do a little math up front for each item to ensure you're getting the right profit per sale, but it's negligible to the amount saved by not having to count change.
- ApolloFortyNine 9y ago
  Germany has the VAT, they just require that vendors hide it from the consumer.
  - germanier 9y ago
    "Hide" as in "the calculation is done in multiple lines on each receipt with the amount of VAT clearly spelled out"? Germany has some hidden taxes in the supermarket (on alcohol, tobacco, and coffee) but VAT is absolutely visible.
  - lobster_johnson 9y ago

wongarsu 9y ago

In a German supermarket there are two notable differences: People pay with rounded bills most of the time, cashiers are fast at returning change (amounts are usually a single cent below the full euro for each item, so change isn't a big problem). The credit card workflow requires you to sign as well (or alternatively sometimes your pin if it's a debit card). Also, no swiping, only chip readers. So in essence, taking out the bills is comparable to taking out your card, and the question is whether signing/entering pin is faster than the cashier giving you your change. Of course occasionally you will pay in exact change, but that's balanced out by all the times you have to insert your card a second time, followed by trying another card.

antouank 9y ago
Say hello to contactless https://www.visa.co.uk/products/visa-contactless/ https://www.visa.co.uk/products/visa-contactless/ Standard on most bank cards in the UK. No pin or anything. Tap it on the machine and you go. Takes 2 seconds at most. Still, I do hold cash sometimes, you do need it in some cases.
- aembleton 9y ago
  I'm sure I've used this in Germany many times at Lidl and other supermarkets.
  - TillE 9y ago
    NFC payment has been rolling out more and more over the past couple years. Edeka is probably the biggest exception, I'm waiting very impatiently for them to catch up.
    - germanier 9y ago
      Edeka is (despite its appearance) not a chain but just a common brand used by lots of independent merchants without many rules[0]. Some Edeka stores therefore introduced contactless payments years ago, some never will. Best is to talk to the owner (they usually just have one or a few stores) – I have been successful with "mine". [0]: In contrast to e.g. Rewe which is also mostly operated by independent merchants but has strict rules for those.

fh973 9y ago

For many people credit card payment also means: - verify statement at the end of the month. Which is annoying and time-consuming.

jasonkostempski 9y ago

Parting with your money shouldn't be easy :)

guelo 9y ago

I find the workflow with the new chip cards much less convenient to the point that I'm starting to prefer cash or Android Pay if it's available. Even though I lose the 2% cashback bribe.

tbomb 9y ago
Which card is that, that takes away the incentive? I use Apple Pay pretty frequently and still get my cashback rate, or double points incentives on the cards that I use.
- tehwebguy 9y ago
  Among others the Citi Double Cash, earned in 2 steps: 1% earned when spending 1% earned when paying the bill Cashback is not immediately applied to the balance so it's actually 2% and not something like 1.9999999. No annual fee but it's not really worth it to apply for this card per se, better to get another card that comes with a signup bonus (this one never does) and "product change" it to this card by calling in.
- guelo 9y ago
  You're right, I worded that poorly. I meant only for when I pay with cash I lose the 2%.

pmoriarty 9y ago

Not only that, but you also have to either carry your small coins around so you can use them up or you have to collect them and then redeem them all for bills or deposit them. This is a royal pain. I have so much change lying around the house that I haven't bothered to count and redeem. On the other hand, if you use credit cards, you would ideally be keeping receipts and then reconciling them to the statements you get from your credit card company to make sure there's no fraud and no errors in billing. Some people have the discipline to do that, but many don't. With credit cards it's easier to overspend. Not only can you perhaps too easily borrow more than you have in the bank with a credit card, but temporarily giving someone a card that you get back right away or giving them a credit card number doesn't have the same psychological impact as permanently and irrevocably giving someone your hard-earned cash. So people are tempted to spend more when using credit cards. Finally, there's the issue of being tracked. When you use credit, at the very least the credit card company knows where and when you shop and possibly what you buy. With cash you could have more privacy in this respect.

_Codemonkeyism 9y ago
Every evening I put all spare change from my trouser pockets into a large glass jar next to the door. Once a year I reedem the money and have a really nice dinner.
- pmoriarty 9y ago
  Do you count the change before you redeem it? That is a huge time-suck for me, and I hate doing it. Also, I feel really bad for the cashiers that are unlucky enough to have all that change dumped on them and are forced to count it all. Some banks have change counting machines, but surprisingly, many don't and the change is still counted by hand while you wait.
  - galvin 9y ago
    If you get bags for change (like shops use) and split everything by denomination and amount it makes it a little easier.

_Codemonkeyism 9y ago

Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - I get a 10 EUR note from my trouser pocket - Cashier gives back money - I put money in trouser pocket - Done - Home: I put all spare money in a large glass jar Credit card workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You swipe card/insert in chip reader - You insert PIN number - You shield your PIN entrie from the people next to you - You tell people too close to back off - Chip reader did not work because of humidity - You insert PIN again - You tolerate the angry stares from people behind you who think you're either stupid or broke - You wait 5 sec for transaction to fish - You put card back in wallet - You put wallet back in trouser pocket - Done

rubicon33 9y ago
Credit cards don't require a PIN. Just get a credit card and pay it off every month. Free points!
- sp332 9y ago
  America has much higher "rewards" than anywhere else. The reward money comes straight out of merchant fees.
  - TheBeardKing 9y ago
    Exactly. I'll continue to use my card whenever possible to save at least 2% on every transaction. But this comes at the cost of getting my CC data stolen from shitty POSs 1-2 times a year. Small inconvenience, but worth it.
  - cosmie 9y ago
    The merchant fees do fund a substantial portion of the rewards programs for cards. However, there's a pretty large market for credit/debit card transaction data. Even Google purchases it[1]. Both your credit card company and the payment processors/networks themselves are able to monetize this data quite effectively. And the more complete people's transaction histories get the more effective this data becomes for different uses and the more the companies can charge for it. Depending on the demographic a particular card is able to capture, the transaction history may be valuable enough to run the rewards program at a loss or break even when looked at purely from the merchant fees recouped. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/05/23/google-now-knows-when-you-are-at-a-cash-register-and-how-much-you-are-spending/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/05/23...

praneshp 9y ago

At least in the five years that I've been in America, the credit card workflow is almost never like that. It's more like - Total amt - (After deciding which card is best) Get card out - Swipe, but piece of shit card reader complains, so retry. Or insert chip, then the piece of shit card reader makes the same sound for "wait" and "remove", sometimes cauing confusion. - Wait for piece of shit card reader to show up signature bar (or less commonly the cashier has to print out a receipt and have you sign it) - Done. I love credit card rewards though, but I'm not sure if it's a zero-sum game.

koolba 9y ago
You missed the step where the digital pen on a string doesn't work to sign the touch pad followed by using your finger.

davemp 9y ago

I've found cash to be much faster and more pleasent than card for eating out. - Waiter brings check - Leave cost + tip - Leave If you pay with card that's an extra trip from the waiter which can take a pretty long time.

irrational 9y ago
At the restaurants I frequent you can now either pay with an app on my phone or pay at a tablet/device that sits on the table. It is super convenient and so fast.
Symbiote 9y ago
In countries where paying by card is common, the waiter will assume this and bring the terminal. You can make it explicit, by having a card visible when you ask for the bill.
- mod 9y ago
  Speaking for America, where it's common to pay by card, I have never had a waiter bring a terminal to the table. They take your card away and bring back a card receipt for you to sign & leave a tip on.
  - eric_h 9y ago
    The mobile card readers are very uncommon in the US. In Canada, they're everywhere.
  - adventured 9y ago
    Numerous large restaurant chains in the US (eg Olive Garden) have installed small interactive screens at every table that act as a terminal, that do other things including take orders. When your meal is finished you pay by card at the machine and leave (it prints your receipt as well). I would expect this premise to essentially spread everywhere among non-fast-food chains.
  - Symbiote 9y ago
    In Europe, pretty much every restaurant, and many bars and cafés, have portable card readers. (If they don't, then they don't take payment at the table.) There is no practical alternative, since the customer needs to input their PIN. Dishonest waiters used to be considered a common way for card details to be stolen. Example: https://www.paymentsense.co.uk/card-machines/portable/ https://www.paymentsense.co.uk/card-machines/portable/

mcrad 9y ago

I think it only takes standing in a few long lines to compare cash vs. card, to understand your analysis does not reflect reality(?)

stuaxo 9y ago

Just count your cash as you queue. Though that whole thing in the US of showing prices not including tax seems pretty wack, what's the point ?

haeffin 9y ago

In efficient stores (e.g. Aldi in Germany and branches in Switzerland and Austria) the cashiers start taking the change into the hand the moment you say you pay cash. They do that up to the next bill and if you pay with a higher bill, picking up extra bills from the registry is really fast. Whereas with a credit card you put the card in, wait until the remote system decides if you should use your PIN or signature, then either put the pin in or wait until the cashier gives you the thing to sign and sign it. And if you're really unlucky the store has a system that looks you up in their customer database if you pay by card which adds another couple seconds. The new contactless payment system is faster, unless the store does something stupid ... like wanting to do a customer database lookup before doing the actual transaction which one chain here in Austria unfortunately does.

pishpash 9y ago
You forget that American cashiers are incapable of arithmetic.

problems 9y ago

I found the whole swipe/insert thing really painfully slow and paid cash all the time. Now though we have NFC tap-to-pay in Canada and it's wicked fast in comparison to everything. No signature, no PIN entry, connections seem much faster.

gingerlime 9y ago

I'm surprised it's not mentioned on other comments, but in Japan, the whole thing is automated. The cashier feeds the cash notes / coins into a machine, and the machine spits out the exact change. It's super-fast, even when the cashier counts your change in front of your eyes, and lays it out neatly onto a tray[0]. I wonder how come these types of machines aren't more popular in other countries. [0] sounds like some super fancy concierge service, but it's pretty much standard, from 7-eleven to fancy stores

Thlom 9y ago
Pretty normal in Norway as well. Cashier feeds notes into machine, customer drops coins in coin machine. Usually pretty fast if the machine reads the coins/notes immediately.
alasdair_ 9y ago
This happens in grocery stores in the US but many other stores don't have enough volume to bother.
- adventured 9y ago
  That has turned out to be the comedy of the cash systems in the US. As I noticed the cash readers / auto change makers being installed in a lot of locations, it was just in time to rarely be used due to the shift to everyone using cards.

amenghra 9y ago

One factor that contributes to making cash slower in USA is the fact that the price displayed isn't the price you have to pay (because of taxes added at checkout time). You end up having to handle random amount of small change for something that ended up being $10.21 (but advertised as $9.99). In most EU countries, the item would be priced at €10, you would pay with a €10 bill and move on.

DamnYuppie 9y ago

You obviously have never been to a Home Depot or Lowes on a weekend and watched in abject horror how long it takes most people to navigate the pin pad to complete their CC purchase! The speed with which the transaction is completed is 100% dependent on the ability of the card holder to navigate all the prompts. At most stores I now have to wade through 4-5 prompts for input before my transaction is complete, this takes up to 30 seconds. This is nowhere near as fast as cash is if one is prepared and has their money out.

nickpsecurity 9y ago

You're oversimplifying it. At some places (eg Subway), it was about 1 second timing for credit cards. At most stores, you would have to do things like say whether it was credit or debit, tell it yes/no to cash back, and tell it yes/no to whether amount is OK. All of them seemingly do it a different way. So, if you're used to it, the process might take several seconds. If you're not, significantly longer. Under Chip and PIN, you have that plus a several second wait in most places I go. Cashiers with decent performance will take a solid bill like a twenty and give you back your change in a few seconds. If you want to give specific amounts of change, that adds time but so does when you split credit cards to put specific amounts on them. If anything, the cards can take longer since the transactions are separate. Wise users of cash also already have most of their money ready for payment by the time the order is totaled since it saves them time. So, for most orders I see, the cash and credit take about the same time if customer is moving decent speed. The only difference is if the customer is moving slow for whatever reason (eg indecision or fumbling for stuff). That can happen with either but happens more for cash since credit users look for one item (the card).

jhasse 9y ago

> - You swipe card/insert in chip reader > > - Done In Germany you always have to insert your PIN or sign the bill if you want to pay by card (we use debit cards mostly, credit cards are very uncommon).

Perseids 9y ago

I've talked to an Aldi employee as of late and he said Aldi is proud to now have the fastest Card processing of all the German stores (within the regulatory limits: you have to put in your PIN or sign the receipts except for those fancy/scary NFC chips) and the Cash workflow is still faster, according to their own statistics. Consider that I already look into my purse while standing in line to get an overview of my available coins and that the cashier starts to collect the likely change the moment they tell you the total amount. This speeds up the process considerable compared to the – likely more cash-inexperienced if I follow your description – American cashiers. I can also second the opinion of many other commenters that the privacy implications of credit cards, especially the RFC ones which allow for invisible tracking, is a huge turn down of card payments in Germany. And last but not least, as a developer, I gotta vent some air and complain that credit cards payments are huge pain in the butt, because of all those pesky special cases that arise from fraud prevention and risk reduction. Which isn't necessary for any sane payment method which can collect money directly from your bank account without the possibility of any charge-backs. This is one of the core reasons which persuaded me a European Fintech Startup Scene is necessary, so that Stripe with its CreditCard-centric API doesn't stand uncompeted.

germanier 9y ago
I assume you talk about Aldi Süd? Their card handling is pretty fast and they can even start scanning the next customer's items while the machine is still processing. Aldi Nord on the other is hand is (while still faster than average) not particularly noteworthy.
adventured 9y ago
> This speeds up the process considerable compared to the – likely more cash-inexperienced if I follow your description – American cashiers. That doesn't make sense as a premise. The US wasn't lacking in experienced cashiers 15-20 years ago when cash was still king, nor today. There was a decade or more of time where the US rapidly transitioned from cash-heavy in stores over to card-heavy, the cards were universally faster unless the store ran a behind-the-counter swipe machine that the cashier had to use. The premise would have to be that in an economy with a super high GDP that has an extremely large service sector, America has especially slow cashiers everywhere (for no apparent reason given the extraordinary economic output overall). It's more than a reach.

larrysalibra 9y ago

As an American living in Hong Kong: Cash can be faster because you do know the total before hand since the price on the menu/price tag is what you pay. This is because there is no sales tax or tipping. Buying 3 items at HK$12 each? Your total is HK$36. If there's a queue I usually have my exact change ready before I'm to the front. In the US, you can rarely tell how much you'll pay since sales tax varies by county or sometimes by city. A side effect of this is weird totals like $23.76 that result in lots of hard to spend small change which also disincentivizes cash use.

vxNsr 9y ago

How about the NFC (Apple/Samsung Pay) workflow: - Tap phone (that's already in your hand because you were aimlessly swiping while standing in line) to terminal with finger on fingerprint reader while cashier is ringing up items - Tap confirm and sign once all items rung up

xbmcuser 9y ago

Here in Singapore they have started using automated cash machines the teller tells you the amount you feed it into the machine. The machine gives change. I use it for getting rid of all the coins once in a while and I don't have to count the coine just drop all the coins I have. If I drop in to much it I returns notes back if pposible. If the coins at a bank coin depositor they charge $0.01 per coin so if you are depositing at the bank you loose 10-20% for 5-10c coins.

antihero 9y ago

Contactless workflow: - You hold your card/device near the screen for about a second - It authorises in a few secs - Done