18 ms·

Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

188 points by ytNumbers 9y ago

daodedickinson 9y ago
And the causality can be linked to websites like Facebook as easily as cancer to cigarettes.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- dionidium 9y ago
  I'd say it's more like the link between secondhand smoke and cancer, which is to say widely believed and seriously overstated. This stuff was trending upward far before social media. See e.g. Putnam in Bowling Alone for a far more convincing explanation. Facebook is the snake oil you're being sold as the cure for something that was already on its way up.
  - seasonalgrit 9y ago
    You're misinformed when it comes to secondhand smoke. From the NIH: "The U.S. Surgeon General estimates that living with a smoker increases a nonsmoker’s chances of developing lung cancer by 20 to 30 percent." "There is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke." -- https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/tobacco/second-hand-smoke-fact-sheet https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/t...
    - dionidium 9y ago
      Not really the point of this thread. Analogies should elucidate, not distract. My bad. Maybe we'll get a chance to argue it another time :)
vinceguidry 9y ago
Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. Real, authentic human connections banish loneliness with a ruthless effectiveness. And you can make one with anyone. But we never want to make an authentic human connection with just anyone. We place conditions on the people we're willing to get close to. And paint ourselves into a very lonely corner by doing it. I used to get lonely a lot in my mid-twenties. I had a bar I went to, a coffee shop I frequented, and good friends at both of them. But I was still lonely. It took a lot of self-inquiry, but eventually I realized that I didn't have a loneliness problem, I had a status problem that was presenting as loneliness. I wasn't seeing my life as having turned out the way I wanted it to, so I was beating myself up over it. Psychological problems respond really well to talk therapy. Unfortunately that's not a very good solution. We don't have the resources to give everybody with the problem therapy. Instead I think we need to adopt a similar approach that's being used for suicide prevention. Train "gatekeepers" to identify at-risk individuals and get them the help they need, and increase awareness in the general public. I wish we could do more. But without massive a public investment in psychological health, personalized treatment will remain a luxury solution for those who can afford it. There's also the problem that, even if the infrastructure were there, that doesn't mean people will take advantage of it. Loneliness is tied very closely to the pride part of the brain, nobody wants to admit they have a problem and seek out help for it.
- trophycase 9y ago
  A lot, if not most, of people's brains are not wired to meet nor interact with as many strangers as we currently do on a daily basis. Getting to know new people and forming real connections can be exhausting.
- chank 9y ago
  That's just like saying the problem isn't me, it's you. Society plays a huge role in people feeling lonely. I'm not saying it's the job of society to make someone feel accepted and have authentic connections, but the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else.
0xcde4c3db 9y ago
This link appears to be little more than a reworded version of the APA press release [1]. I'm still not sure where the actual study is. [1] http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2017/08/lonely-die.aspx http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2017/08/lonely-die.as...
- arikr 9y ago
  @dang, can you swap out the links? The link OP submitted is pretty spammy.
- network_ops 9y ago
  http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691614568352 http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691614568352 Done by a Prof. at BYU edit: Here's the original BYU new article as well: https://news.byu.edu/news/prescription-living-longer-spend-less-time-alone https://news.byu.edu/news/prescription-living-longer-spend-l...
MaymayMaster 9y ago
This study was conducted by HAES activists, wasn't it?
pixilz 9y ago
Can confirm, am loneliness.
- tomcam 9y ago
  My heart's with you. Email in profile
becga 9y ago
Don't think the US can match Japan for loneliness/isolation.
- crocal 9y ago
  I don't know. When I was living there, interpersonal relationship among Americans always seemed very shallow and greedy. Generally the first contact was very welcoming, then, nothing beyond that. It felt as if any socialization was first and foremost a kind of investment. If after a probe, the ROI did not looked promising, the line would go dead almost instantly. I remember very well asking myself how such a society could not eventually lead to very lonely people. Fortunately, I was not looking for friends, because I did not bring back so many from there, and most of them are actually first generation immigrants.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
microcolonel 9y ago
I feel like this also plays into, and off of, political division. I have had a great number of people who would have been friends, or at least acquaintances, ex me completely for one moment of political disagreement. I also figure the more isolated you become from direct human contact, the more the increasingly-tailored information you see confirms your own dumb ideas. These dumb ideas then become your deepest-held convictions, and you ex the people around you because of just how disturbing the disagreement seems. In addition, finding people to date and have romantic relationships is pretty weird these days. On the one hand, there are dating apps, which seem like they would give you a lot of opportunity to meet new people, but mostly just give you enough information about people to swipe left. If you're a guy, also can no longer court the single women at your employer (even from other departments) without potentially imperiling your entire livelihood. Most of the guys I talk to from a generation or two before me say they met their lifelong friends through a friend or through somebody they were dating, often through people they no longer talk to. It seems like there are a lot of factors, mundane and complex, that could contribute to isolation these days, especially if you're a 7 or below.
trophycase 9y ago
Humans aren't wired to drown in interactions with strangers all day.
rndmind 9y ago
What is with the influx of link-bait articles on this website? This is y-combinator not The Sun tabloid.
Nevaeh 9y ago
Perhaps digital interaction can help alleviate the negative symptoms of loneliness and social isolation. One can join any community which shares their interests and interact in real-time. https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/IRL https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/IRL https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Creative https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Creative However, I am unsure if virtualization of social interaction is beneficial in the long run.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
pvdebbe 9y ago
Witt: Do you ever feel lonely? Welsh: Only around people
expertentipp 9y ago
yeah... people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwjLCQLSsAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwjLCQLSsAw
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
yotamoron 9y ago
From Ivan Illich's "Deschooling Society" (written in 1970): "In these essays, I will show that the institutionalization of values leads inevitably to physical pollution, social polarization, and psychological impotence: three dimensions in a process of global degradation and modernized misery. I will explain how this process of degradation is accelerated when nonmaterial needs are transformed into demands for commodities; when health, education, personal mobility, welfare, or psychological healing are defined as the result of services or "treatments"."
fallingfrog 9y ago
Loneliness and obesity have a common origin, or at least significantly overlapping causes. They both derive from living in an environment that is a) substantially different from what we are evolved for and b) loaded with social pressures and saturated with advertising that pressures people into making bad choices. There's no way you can argue that obesity is anything other than a conflict between the environment we evolved for, and the one we live in. Anywhere you go in America, you are surrounded by cheap empty calories, sugar and white flour, both highly addictive substances, and also surrounded by advertising urging consumption of the above. For us to not have an obesity epidemic would be astonishing. By the same token, the only kind of negotiating power the modern worker has in finding a good salary is the power to quit, and so people quit often and early, which leads to them moving frequently away from the friends they've managed to find. All of us are also surrounded by messages telling us that for our lives to mean anything we must work longer, and spend more money, which doesn't leave much time for forging social bonds. Again, you can argue that nobody is forcing you to make these choices- but for us to have an epidemic of loneliness is completely unsurprising.
- vorpalhex 9y ago
  > There's no way you can argue that obesity is anything other than a conflict between the environment we evolved for, and the one we live in I'll bite. Obesity occurs because our food is too cheap. Especially in the US, our food is horrendously cheap for a ton of calories. I (by some mistake) bought a $4 taco the other day that was about 1000 calories (and quite good). We went from having people dying from hunger, to having too much food available for extremely low prices. I eat on about $50 a week and live like a damned king - fresh gourmet bread, chicken and steak twice a day, hand folded pasta, imported olive oil, etc. A few hundred years ago and you were doing well to have some soup and a piece of bread on a daily basis. Now I can get a decent bottle of wine for below $8. > By the same token, the only kind of negotiating power the modern worker has in finding a good salary is the power to quit, and so people quit often and early, which leads to them moving frequently away from the friends they've managed to find. I don't think that's it either. I think, just like food has gotten to be too cheap and too readily accessible for our primate brains, we've managed to fake having friends. I can send a facebook friend request and get it accepted by anyone, I can have a drink with coworkers after work, or talk over the water cooler about game of thrones - and none of those are meaningful friends. Again, it's too "cheap" to form faux relationships. There's a (probably entirely unsourced) quote that it takes about 18 months to know a person. How many people do you spend quality, non-work time with, at least one or twice a month, for at least two years? For most people that may not even include their spouse.

188 points by ytNumbers 9y ago

daodedickinson 9y ago

And the causality can be linked to websites like Facebook as easily as cancer to cigarettes.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
dionidium 9y ago
I'd say it's more like the link between secondhand smoke and cancer, which is to say widely believed and seriously overstated. This stuff was trending upward far before social media. See e.g. Putnam in Bowling Alone for a far more convincing explanation. Facebook is the snake oil you're being sold as the cure for something that was already on its way up.
- seasonalgrit 9y ago
  You're misinformed when it comes to secondhand smoke. From the NIH: "The U.S. Surgeon General estimates that living with a smoker increases a nonsmoker’s chances of developing lung cancer by 20 to 30 percent." "There is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke." -- https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/tobacco/second-hand-smoke-fact-sheet https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/t...
  - dionidium 9y ago
    Not really the point of this thread. Analogies should elucidate, not distract. My bad. Maybe we'll get a chance to argue it another time :)

vinceguidry 9y ago

Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. Real, authentic human connections banish loneliness with a ruthless effectiveness. And you can make one with anyone. But we never want to make an authentic human connection with just anyone. We place conditions on the people we're willing to get close to. And paint ourselves into a very lonely corner by doing it. I used to get lonely a lot in my mid-twenties. I had a bar I went to, a coffee shop I frequented, and good friends at both of them. But I was still lonely. It took a lot of self-inquiry, but eventually I realized that I didn't have a loneliness problem, I had a status problem that was presenting as loneliness. I wasn't seeing my life as having turned out the way I wanted it to, so I was beating myself up over it. Psychological problems respond really well to talk therapy. Unfortunately that's not a very good solution. We don't have the resources to give everybody with the problem therapy. Instead I think we need to adopt a similar approach that's being used for suicide prevention. Train "gatekeepers" to identify at-risk individuals and get them the help they need, and increase awareness in the general public. I wish we could do more. But without massive a public investment in psychological health, personalized treatment will remain a luxury solution for those who can afford it. There's also the problem that, even if the infrastructure were there, that doesn't mean people will take advantage of it. Loneliness is tied very closely to the pride part of the brain, nobody wants to admit they have a problem and seek out help for it.

trophycase 9y ago
A lot, if not most, of people's brains are not wired to meet nor interact with as many strangers as we currently do on a daily basis. Getting to know new people and forming real connections can be exhausting.
chank 9y ago
That's just like saying the problem isn't me, it's you. Society plays a huge role in people feeling lonely. I'm not saying it's the job of society to make someone feel accepted and have authentic connections, but the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else.

0xcde4c3db 9y ago

This link appears to be little more than a reworded version of the APA press release [1]. I'm still not sure where the actual study is. [1] http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2017/08/lonely-die.aspx http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2017/08/lonely-die.as...

arikr 9y ago
@dang, can you swap out the links? The link OP submitted is pretty spammy.
network_ops 9y ago
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691614568352 http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691614568352 Done by a Prof. at BYU edit: Here's the original BYU new article as well: https://news.byu.edu/news/prescription-living-longer-spend-less-time-alone https://news.byu.edu/news/prescription-living-longer-spend-l...

MaymayMaster 9y ago

This study was conducted by HAES activists, wasn't it?

pixilz 9y ago

Can confirm, am loneliness.

tomcam 9y ago
My heart's with you. Email in profile

becga 9y ago

Don't think the US can match Japan for loneliness/isolation.

crocal 9y ago
I don't know. When I was living there, interpersonal relationship among Americans always seemed very shallow and greedy. Generally the first contact was very welcoming, then, nothing beyond that. It felt as if any socialization was first and foremost a kind of investment. If after a probe, the ROI did not looked promising, the line would go dead almost instantly. I remember very well asking myself how such a society could not eventually lead to very lonely people. Fortunately, I was not looking for friends, because I did not bring back so many from there, and most of them are actually first generation immigrants.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

microcolonel 9y ago

I feel like this also plays into, and off of, political division. I have had a great number of people who would have been friends, or at least acquaintances, ex me completely for one moment of political disagreement. I also figure the more isolated you become from direct human contact, the more the increasingly-tailored information you see confirms your own dumb ideas. These dumb ideas then become your deepest-held convictions, and you ex the people around you because of just how disturbing the disagreement seems. In addition, finding people to date and have romantic relationships is pretty weird these days. On the one hand, there are dating apps, which seem like they would give you a lot of opportunity to meet new people, but mostly just give you enough information about people to swipe left. If you're a guy, also can no longer court the single women at your employer (even from other departments) without potentially imperiling your entire livelihood. Most of the guys I talk to from a generation or two before me say they met their lifelong friends through a friend or through somebody they were dating, often through people they no longer talk to. It seems like there are a lot of factors, mundane and complex, that could contribute to isolation these days, especially if you're a 7 or below.

trophycase 9y ago

Humans aren't wired to drown in interactions with strangers all day.

rndmind 9y ago

What is with the influx of link-bait articles on this website? This is y-combinator not The Sun tabloid.

Nevaeh 9y ago

Perhaps digital interaction can help alleviate the negative symptoms of loneliness and social isolation. One can join any community which shares their interests and interact in real-time. https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/IRL https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/IRL https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Creative https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Creative However, I am unsure if virtualization of social interaction is beneficial in the long run.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

pvdebbe 9y ago

Witt: Do you ever feel lonely? Welsh: Only around people

expertentipp 9y ago

yeah... people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwjLCQLSsAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwjLCQLSsAw

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

yotamoron 9y ago

From Ivan Illich's "Deschooling Society" (written in 1970): "In these essays, I will show that the institutionalization of values leads inevitably to physical pollution, social polarization, and psychological impotence: three dimensions in a process of global degradation and modernized misery. I will explain how this process of degradation is accelerated when nonmaterial needs are transformed into demands for commodities; when health, education, personal mobility, welfare, or psychological healing are defined as the result of services or "treatments"."

fallingfrog 9y ago

Loneliness and obesity have a common origin, or at least significantly overlapping causes. They both derive from living in an environment that is a) substantially different from what we are evolved for and b) loaded with social pressures and saturated with advertising that pressures people into making bad choices. There's no way you can argue that obesity is anything other than a conflict between the environment we evolved for, and the one we live in. Anywhere you go in America, you are surrounded by cheap empty calories, sugar and white flour, both highly addictive substances, and also surrounded by advertising urging consumption of the above. For us to not have an obesity epidemic would be astonishing. By the same token, the only kind of negotiating power the modern worker has in finding a good salary is the power to quit, and so people quit often and early, which leads to them moving frequently away from the friends they've managed to find. All of us are also surrounded by messages telling us that for our lives to mean anything we must work longer, and spend more money, which doesn't leave much time for forging social bonds. Again, you can argue that nobody is forcing you to make these choices- but for us to have an epidemic of loneliness is completely unsurprising.

vorpalhex 9y ago
> There's no way you can argue that obesity is anything other than a conflict between the environment we evolved for, and the one we live in I'll bite. Obesity occurs because our food is too cheap. Especially in the US, our food is horrendously cheap for a ton of calories. I (by some mistake) bought a $4 taco the other day that was about 1000 calories (and quite good). We went from having people dying from hunger, to having too much food available for extremely low prices. I eat on about $50 a week and live like a damned king - fresh gourmet bread, chicken and steak twice a day, hand folded pasta, imported olive oil, etc. A few hundred years ago and you were doing well to have some soup and a piece of bread on a daily basis. Now I can get a decent bottle of wine for below $8. > By the same token, the only kind of negotiating power the modern worker has in finding a good salary is the power to quit, and so people quit often and early, which leads to them moving frequently away from the friends they've managed to find. I don't think that's it either. I think, just like food has gotten to be too cheap and too readily accessible for our primate brains, we've managed to fake having friends. I can send a facebook friend request and get it accepted by anyone, I can have a drink with coworkers after work, or talk over the water cooler about game of thrones - and none of those are meaningful friends. Again, it's too "cheap" to form faux relationships. There's a (probably entirely unsourced) quote that it takes about 18 months to know a person. How many people do you spend quality, non-work time with, at least one or twice a month, for at least two years? For most people that may not even include their spouse.