6 ms·

Yeah, I'd like to see these stats broken down to immigrants. I'd guess that the immigrants are actually leading the way. My guess is that Canada is careful ab

Yeah, I'd like to see these stats broken down to immigrants. I'd guess that the immigrants are actually leading the way. My guess is that Canada is careful about selecting those allowed to migrate for education which helps a lot here.

hasenj 9y ago
Requirements for immigration is difficult and if everyone had to pass the same bar my family had to then it's almost guaranteed that most immigrants are well above average. Or put another way, the average of immigrants is probably higher than the average of native born citizens. That said, the opposite is true for refugees. The only thing you need is to somehow get inside the country. If you can convince some judge that you have a moderately believable story about why you will be in danger if you go back to your country you can get refugee status. So there's basically two classes of immigrants. Those that are selected with very high standards, and those who just get in with almost no standards. I'm guessing the latter group does not even send their kids to Universities.
- diegoperini 9y ago
  By definition of the word refugee, a refugee is expected to restart her life from scratch. Bootstrapping like that takes years and education in many cases becomes second priority. Comparing a refugee with an immigrant is unjust. One chooses to abandon her home town, the other is either forced to leave or escapes for survival.
  - hasenj 9y ago
    That's not the real difference though. Immigrants also have to restart from scratch. Everything in Canada is completely different from what we're used to in our countries of origin. Often, parents who were engineers in their home countries have to work blue collar jobs to make ends meet. I think the actual difference is in average IQ and other desirable traits like industriousness. Immigrants tend to be at the higher end while refugees tend to be at the lower end.
    - diegoperini 9y ago
      If what you mean by IQ is "opportunity to access quality education before immigration", then you may be right. But in that case IQ becomes a function of wealth which is not that common among refugees. Inequality is not genetically but sociologically inherited.
      - gasof 9y ago
        I think he meant IQ as in "intelligence quotent", which is what the word means. IQ tests are designed not to be influenced education levels.
    - chrischen 9y ago
      I would say refugees tend to be on the more average end, rather than lower end.
    - foldr 9y ago
      >I think the actual difference is in average IQ and other desirable traits like industriousness. Immigrants tend to be at the higher end while refugees tend to be at the lower end. Why would people fleeing war zones be on average less industrious or less intelligent? That doesn't make any sense.
      - myth_drannon 9y ago
        Because of Canada's immigration policy, most of the immigrants are highly educated, they wouldn't be an immigrant if they didn't finish high school. Refugees is everyone else who couldn't immigrate and had to go the other route. So you might have a Sudanese immigrants who are highly educated and Sudanese refugees who are more likely to be illiterate (a bit generalizing but still). This is very different from US where you have a green card lottery and your typical immigrant is just an average population because everyone has the same chance of winning lottery, it doesn't matter if you are a farmer or aircraft engineer.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
  - dgudkov 9y ago
    > Comparing a refugee with an immigrant is unjust The refugee system in Canada is frequently abused. I hear anecdotes from my friends about kids from rich families in safe Easter European countries, that pay thousands to immigration lawyers and apply for refugee status simply because the partied too much and didn't manage to get enough points to go through the point based system. Such "refugees" can be safely compared with immigrants.
    - pm90 9y ago
      Eh, sounds a lot like the overblown "Welfare Queen" syndrome that so many in the US worry about so much. Yes, there are most likely people who abuse the system, but most people who get assistance are genuine refugees.
rfdub 9y ago
Our selection process is as follows: "Does your daddy have money?"

hasenj 9y ago

Requirements for immigration is difficult and if everyone had to pass the same bar my family had to then it's almost guaranteed that most immigrants are well above average. Or put another way, the average of immigrants is probably higher than the average of native born citizens. That said, the opposite is true for refugees. The only thing you need is to somehow get inside the country. If you can convince some judge that you have a moderately believable story about why you will be in danger if you go back to your country you can get refugee status. So there's basically two classes of immigrants. Those that are selected with very high standards, and those who just get in with almost no standards. I'm guessing the latter group does not even send their kids to Universities.

diegoperini 9y ago
By definition of the word refugee, a refugee is expected to restart her life from scratch. Bootstrapping like that takes years and education in many cases becomes second priority. Comparing a refugee with an immigrant is unjust. One chooses to abandon her home town, the other is either forced to leave or escapes for survival.
- hasenj 9y ago
  That's not the real difference though. Immigrants also have to restart from scratch. Everything in Canada is completely different from what we're used to in our countries of origin. Often, parents who were engineers in their home countries have to work blue collar jobs to make ends meet. I think the actual difference is in average IQ and other desirable traits like industriousness. Immigrants tend to be at the higher end while refugees tend to be at the lower end.
  - diegoperini 9y ago
    If what you mean by IQ is "opportunity to access quality education before immigration", then you may be right. But in that case IQ becomes a function of wealth which is not that common among refugees. Inequality is not genetically but sociologically inherited.
    - gasof 9y ago
      I think he meant IQ as in "intelligence quotent", which is what the word means. IQ tests are designed not to be influenced education levels.
  - chrischen 9y ago
    I would say refugees tend to be on the more average end, rather than lower end.
  - foldr 9y ago
    >I think the actual difference is in average IQ and other desirable traits like industriousness. Immigrants tend to be at the higher end while refugees tend to be at the lower end. Why would people fleeing war zones be on average less industrious or less intelligent? That doesn't make any sense.
    - myth_drannon 9y ago
      Because of Canada's immigration policy, most of the immigrants are highly educated, they wouldn't be an immigrant if they didn't finish high school. Refugees is everyone else who couldn't immigrate and had to go the other route. So you might have a Sudanese immigrants who are highly educated and Sudanese refugees who are more likely to be illiterate (a bit generalizing but still). This is very different from US where you have a green card lottery and your typical immigrant is just an average population because everyone has the same chance of winning lottery, it doesn't matter if you are a farmer or aircraft engineer.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
- dgudkov 9y ago
  > Comparing a refugee with an immigrant is unjust The refugee system in Canada is frequently abused. I hear anecdotes from my friends about kids from rich families in safe Easter European countries, that pay thousands to immigration lawyers and apply for refugee status simply because the partied too much and didn't manage to get enough points to go through the point based system. Such "refugees" can be safely compared with immigrants.
  - pm90 9y ago
    Eh, sounds a lot like the overblown "Welfare Queen" syndrome that so many in the US worry about so much. Yes, there are most likely people who abuse the system, but most people who get assistance are genuine refugees.

rfdub 9y ago

Our selection process is as follows: "Does your daddy have money?"