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> Migrants coming to Canada, many from countries such as China, India and Pakistan, are often relatively well-educated and ambitious to see their children get i

> Migrants coming to Canada, many from countries such as China, India and Pakistan, are often relatively well-educated and ambitious to see their children get into professional careers. > Prof Jerrim says these families have an immigrant "hunger" to succeed, and their high expectations are likely to boost school results for their children. Speaking from personal experience as a native Canadian, this can also motivate non-immigrant children to work harder. When half of your peers have an immigrant's work ethic it can be a real positive influence. Disclaimer: this is an anecdote, my personal experience may not generalize, etc.

diegoperini 9y ago
Your lack of prejudice is really admirable.
- dublinclontarf 9y ago
  What else was he supposed to do? "These immigrants, coming over here, getting better grades than the rest of us"? That just becomes an admission of stupidity.
  - diegoperini 9y ago
    "These immigrants come and use the facilities we deserve to use". Common is sense is not common. Edit: Just to be clear, my first comment was really a compliment. No sarcasm intended.
    - balabaster 9y ago
      > "These immigrants come and use the facilities we deserve to use". Speaking from the perspective of an immigrant with tons of immigrant friends and whose friends around the world tend to be travelers by nature, I have noticed a lot of commonality in migrants and travelers that locals would do well to mirror if they want to succeed: More often than not, if the immigrants didn't use the facilities, they would go unused and close and people would lose jobs, hurting the economy. Nobody would benefit from this. Indeed, frequently immigrants don't even use the facilities that you as locals are afforded. We're not allowed to claim welfare, we work hard, we pay taxes, we create jobs, we make friends, we integrate, we are neighbours, we laugh, we joke, we add richness to your lives just as you do with ours. There is a pervasive mentality that we come over and hog your resources and take your jobs. Immigrants don't come and take anything, they come and do whatever it takes to succeed. They do the shit jobs that nobody else wants while they endlessly scour the economy for opportunities to succeed. If locals had that same hunger, they wouldn't be blaming their lot in life on external forces and they too would be successful. Immigrants by and large are immigrants because they took charge of their situation and moved to where they can get a better life. Residents who relocate for work have the same take charge attitude, going where they can make a difference and leveraging opportunity. People that complain about "people coming and doing or using what we deserve to use" by and large want opportunities handed to them, and when they're not blame the world around them for that. People with a strong external locus of control tend to blame others for their problems in life. People with a strong internal locus of control tend to just get on with leveraging the opportunities they find. They are in charge of their own destiny instead of allowing their destiny to be controlled by others. If I were to make a broad sweeping statement, which we all know are flawed for many reasons, but I will make it anyway: Immigrants tend to have a strong internal locus of control. People complaining about immigrants tend to have a strong external locus of control. If you change your locus of control and be in charge of your own destiny, you'll care far less about immigrants. Indeed, you will become much more like us, you will identify with us and you too will succeed.
    - diegoperini 9y ago
      I think I need to be more clear here. That statement in quotes is not my opinion. It is some toxic line of thought I hear every once in a while.
- Kurtz79 9y ago
  Prejudice: "preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience". The poster is "speaking from personal experience", so it's not really surprising.
- surge 9y ago
  No it isn't admirable means its some how not the expectation. Lack of prejudice is and should be the norm. Having prejudice should be detestable, you shouldn't get a pat on the back for not being prejudice no more than you should for being a polite normal person who treats people with common decency and respect.
  - dmix 9y ago
    Lack of prejudice is the norm in the vast majority of places in the western world, despite what the world-is-burning media says. Residential segregation rates might not have changed much since the 1960s in the US (when there was a political push to reduce it) but I'm not convinced that's purely the result of prejudice rather than a natural human instinct to congregate in culturally homogenous groups. That doesn't mean various groups can't peacefully coexist and thrive together. Culture can still transfer across neighbourhoods and there will always be public/private places where each group mixes. Canada is known for our multi-culturalism but cities such as Toronto are highly segregated into various ethnic enclaves. And it's a great feature of the city that I've never heard people complain about. I've only heard people say how much it contributes to a great and varied restaurant scene and plenty of unique festivals (for ex: Taste of Little Italy street fair, Chinese new year parade, etc).
blazespin 9y ago
Yeah, I'd like to see these stats broken down to immigrants. I'd guess that the immigrants are actually leading the way. My guess is that Canada is careful about selecting those allowed to migrate for education which helps a lot here.
- hasenj 9y ago
  Requirements for immigration is difficult and if everyone had to pass the same bar my family had to then it's almost guaranteed that most immigrants are well above average. Or put another way, the average of immigrants is probably higher than the average of native born citizens. That said, the opposite is true for refugees. The only thing you need is to somehow get inside the country. If you can convince some judge that you have a moderately believable story about why you will be in danger if you go back to your country you can get refugee status. So there's basically two classes of immigrants. Those that are selected with very high standards, and those who just get in with almost no standards. I'm guessing the latter group does not even send their kids to Universities.
  - diegoperini 9y ago
    By definition of the word refugee, a refugee is expected to restart her life from scratch. Bootstrapping like that takes years and education in many cases becomes second priority. Comparing a refugee with an immigrant is unjust. One chooses to abandon her home town, the other is either forced to leave or escapes for survival.
    - hasenj 9y ago
      That's not the real difference though. Immigrants also have to restart from scratch. Everything in Canada is completely different from what we're used to in our countries of origin. Often, parents who were engineers in their home countries have to work blue collar jobs to make ends meet. I think the actual difference is in average IQ and other desirable traits like industriousness. Immigrants tend to be at the higher end while refugees tend to be at the lower end.
DarkKomunalec 9y ago
> When half of your peers have an immigrant's work ethic That many?
- vinceh 9y ago
  Depends on where you are. In major cities like Vancouver[1] and Toronto[2], you have over half of the population belonging to "non caucasian". Although this doesn't directly mean all of them are immigrants, subsequent generation tend to carry (or at the very least but influenced) by their parents cultural values, like work ethic. Anecdotally, I'm a second generation Taiwanese living in Vancouver and I consider myself to have the "asian" work ethic. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Vancouver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Vancouver [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto
- dx034 9y ago
  Depends on the area you live in. Immigration tends to focus on certain spots (larger cities, areas where people from the same region already live, areas with international schools from that country). This effect occurs independent of the wealth of immigrants.
- schwarrrtz 9y ago
  Ok so I have some actual stats now: > More than 45 per cent of Metro Vancouver residents are foreign born, according to the 2011 census. There are only three major cities on the globe that have a higher percentage of foreign-born residents. > They are Dubai, Brussels and Toronto. http://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/vancouver-fourth-for-foreign-born-residents-but-is-it-cosmopolitan http://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/vancouver-fourth-fo...
  - deanCommie 9y ago
    And yet all these people are united in their love for Vancouver, and Canada. Canada draws strength from diversity. I could see an American conservative looking at this list and shudder in fear from the "loss of white culture", and how immigrants couldn't possibly love their second country as much as native-borns. Yet we do. And Vancouver is proof. Source: Am Immigrant Vancouverite (presently living in Europe) * Obligatory footnote acknowledging our dark past with Japanese internment, and dark past and present with dealing with social problems that affect first nations communities disproportionately.
coolg54321 9y ago
I always wonder how people can call someone immigrant (and claim they are not) if they are not aboriginal/native american/canadian. When the only difference between them and these "immigrants" are one belongs to 15th/16th century and the other belongs to 20th/21st century immigrant families
- Kluny 9y ago
  It's pretty simple, if you were born in Canada and live there, you're not an immigrant. Your parents might be. If your grandparents were immigrants but your parents weren't, you're 100% Canadian and skin color isn't part of the equation. I don't know why other commenters are implying that it is.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- minikites 9y ago
  They're the "right kind" of immigrant (white skin) who did it the "right way" (immigrating in the 15th/16th century).
- watwut 9y ago
  The difference of 5 centuries is quite a lot. If your family moved from Germany to French two generations ago, you are not called immigrant nor German either.
- ChrisjayHenn 9y ago
  To me, an immigrant is someone who made the move themselves. Maybe that's a Canadian thing.
- joaomacp 9y ago
  Even the people in Europe in the 15th/16th century were immigrants from previous humans in Africa. Everyone is an immigrant from the first cell that replicated, and began life.
- laser 9y ago
  Because extending the logic on such an idea, all people of North America, and most of the world, are immigrants. 'I always wonder how people can call someone immigrant (and claim they are not) if they are not the mountains and the earth. When the only difference between them and these "immigrants" are one belongs to 3rd millenium CE and the other belongs to 13th millenium BCE immigrant families.'
616c 9y ago
Hanging out with immigrant kids in the US I would tend to agree. A few years in the Persian Gulf with mass immigrant youth mixing with a GCC citizen subset in schools as a policy requirement still provided lots of anecdotes that those GCC students care a lot less than expat kids despite pressure on the latter. They can get jobs slated for GCC nationals only with lax requirements. Many see little value out of college beyond the elite who wanted out. Now immigrant and expat to me means overlapping national and ethnic and national backgrounds. It is an issue of the intended period of their residency. I think govt policy was hoping for the later in institutions like the one I worked at, and it made me sad.
Waterluvian 9y ago
The majority attitude of a classroom was ultimately how I tried to behave during highschool.
maehwasu 9y ago
So you are arguing for skills/intelligence based immigration policies?
- rubatuga 9y ago
  I mean that's what happens in reality
abandonliberty 9y ago
Not only motivate but provide more motivated/mature peers. Most of my friends in school were immigrants for this reason. Mind you, I also know high school graduates who never bothered to learn English. They find a way to make their living in Chinatown (which is slowly expanding across the city).

diegoperini 9y ago

Your lack of prejudice is really admirable.

dublinclontarf 9y ago
What else was he supposed to do? "These immigrants, coming over here, getting better grades than the rest of us"? That just becomes an admission of stupidity.
- diegoperini 9y ago
  "These immigrants come and use the facilities we deserve to use". Common is sense is not common. Edit: Just to be clear, my first comment was really a compliment. No sarcasm intended.
  - balabaster 9y ago
    > "These immigrants come and use the facilities we deserve to use". Speaking from the perspective of an immigrant with tons of immigrant friends and whose friends around the world tend to be travelers by nature, I have noticed a lot of commonality in migrants and travelers that locals would do well to mirror if they want to succeed: More often than not, if the immigrants didn't use the facilities, they would go unused and close and people would lose jobs, hurting the economy. Nobody would benefit from this. Indeed, frequently immigrants don't even use the facilities that you as locals are afforded. We're not allowed to claim welfare, we work hard, we pay taxes, we create jobs, we make friends, we integrate, we are neighbours, we laugh, we joke, we add richness to your lives just as you do with ours. There is a pervasive mentality that we come over and hog your resources and take your jobs. Immigrants don't come and take anything, they come and do whatever it takes to succeed. They do the shit jobs that nobody else wants while they endlessly scour the economy for opportunities to succeed. If locals had that same hunger, they wouldn't be blaming their lot in life on external forces and they too would be successful. Immigrants by and large are immigrants because they took charge of their situation and moved to where they can get a better life. Residents who relocate for work have the same take charge attitude, going where they can make a difference and leveraging opportunity. People that complain about "people coming and doing or using what we deserve to use" by and large want opportunities handed to them, and when they're not blame the world around them for that. People with a strong external locus of control tend to blame others for their problems in life. People with a strong internal locus of control tend to just get on with leveraging the opportunities they find. They are in charge of their own destiny instead of allowing their destiny to be controlled by others. If I were to make a broad sweeping statement, which we all know are flawed for many reasons, but I will make it anyway: Immigrants tend to have a strong internal locus of control. People complaining about immigrants tend to have a strong external locus of control. If you change your locus of control and be in charge of your own destiny, you'll care far less about immigrants. Indeed, you will become much more like us, you will identify with us and you too will succeed.
  - diegoperini 9y ago
    I think I need to be more clear here. That statement in quotes is not my opinion. It is some toxic line of thought I hear every once in a while.
Kurtz79 9y ago
Prejudice: "preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience". The poster is "speaking from personal experience", so it's not really surprising.
surge 9y ago
No it isn't admirable means its some how not the expectation. Lack of prejudice is and should be the norm. Having prejudice should be detestable, you shouldn't get a pat on the back for not being prejudice no more than you should for being a polite normal person who treats people with common decency and respect.
- dmix 9y ago
  Lack of prejudice is the norm in the vast majority of places in the western world, despite what the world-is-burning media says. Residential segregation rates might not have changed much since the 1960s in the US (when there was a political push to reduce it) but I'm not convinced that's purely the result of prejudice rather than a natural human instinct to congregate in culturally homogenous groups. That doesn't mean various groups can't peacefully coexist and thrive together. Culture can still transfer across neighbourhoods and there will always be public/private places where each group mixes. Canada is known for our multi-culturalism but cities such as Toronto are highly segregated into various ethnic enclaves. And it's a great feature of the city that I've never heard people complain about. I've only heard people say how much it contributes to a great and varied restaurant scene and plenty of unique festivals (for ex: Taste of Little Italy street fair, Chinese new year parade, etc).

blazespin 9y ago

Yeah, I'd like to see these stats broken down to immigrants. I'd guess that the immigrants are actually leading the way. My guess is that Canada is careful about selecting those allowed to migrate for education which helps a lot here.

hasenj 9y ago
Requirements for immigration is difficult and if everyone had to pass the same bar my family had to then it's almost guaranteed that most immigrants are well above average. Or put another way, the average of immigrants is probably higher than the average of native born citizens. That said, the opposite is true for refugees. The only thing you need is to somehow get inside the country. If you can convince some judge that you have a moderately believable story about why you will be in danger if you go back to your country you can get refugee status. So there's basically two classes of immigrants. Those that are selected with very high standards, and those who just get in with almost no standards. I'm guessing the latter group does not even send their kids to Universities.
- diegoperini 9y ago
  By definition of the word refugee, a refugee is expected to restart her life from scratch. Bootstrapping like that takes years and education in many cases becomes second priority. Comparing a refugee with an immigrant is unjust. One chooses to abandon her home town, the other is either forced to leave or escapes for survival.
  - hasenj 9y ago
    That's not the real difference though. Immigrants also have to restart from scratch. Everything in Canada is completely different from what we're used to in our countries of origin. Often, parents who were engineers in their home countries have to work blue collar jobs to make ends meet. I think the actual difference is in average IQ and other desirable traits like industriousness. Immigrants tend to be at the higher end while refugees tend to be at the lower end.

DarkKomunalec 9y ago

> When half of your peers have an immigrant's work ethic That many?

vinceh 9y ago
Depends on where you are. In major cities like Vancouver[1] and Toronto[2], you have over half of the population belonging to "non caucasian". Although this doesn't directly mean all of them are immigrants, subsequent generation tend to carry (or at the very least but influenced) by their parents cultural values, like work ethic. Anecdotally, I'm a second generation Taiwanese living in Vancouver and I consider myself to have the "asian" work ethic. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Vancouver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Vancouver [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto
dx034 9y ago
Depends on the area you live in. Immigration tends to focus on certain spots (larger cities, areas where people from the same region already live, areas with international schools from that country). This effect occurs independent of the wealth of immigrants.
schwarrrtz 9y ago
Ok so I have some actual stats now: > More than 45 per cent of Metro Vancouver residents are foreign born, according to the 2011 census. There are only three major cities on the globe that have a higher percentage of foreign-born residents. > They are Dubai, Brussels and Toronto. http://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/vancouver-fourth-for-foreign-born-residents-but-is-it-cosmopolitan http://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/vancouver-fourth-fo...
- deanCommie 9y ago
  And yet all these people are united in their love for Vancouver, and Canada. Canada draws strength from diversity. I could see an American conservative looking at this list and shudder in fear from the "loss of white culture", and how immigrants couldn't possibly love their second country as much as native-borns. Yet we do. And Vancouver is proof. Source: Am Immigrant Vancouverite (presently living in Europe) * Obligatory footnote acknowledging our dark past with Japanese internment, and dark past and present with dealing with social problems that affect first nations communities disproportionately.

coolg54321 9y ago

I always wonder how people can call someone immigrant (and claim they are not) if they are not aboriginal/native american/canadian. When the only difference between them and these "immigrants" are one belongs to 15th/16th century and the other belongs to 20th/21st century immigrant families

Kluny 9y ago
It's pretty simple, if you were born in Canada and live there, you're not an immigrant. Your parents might be. If your grandparents were immigrants but your parents weren't, you're 100% Canadian and skin color isn't part of the equation. I don't know why other commenters are implying that it is.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
minikites 9y ago
They're the "right kind" of immigrant (white skin) who did it the "right way" (immigrating in the 15th/16th century).
watwut 9y ago
The difference of 5 centuries is quite a lot. If your family moved from Germany to French two generations ago, you are not called immigrant nor German either.
ChrisjayHenn 9y ago
To me, an immigrant is someone who made the move themselves. Maybe that's a Canadian thing.
joaomacp 9y ago
Even the people in Europe in the 15th/16th century were immigrants from previous humans in Africa. Everyone is an immigrant from the first cell that replicated, and began life.
laser 9y ago
Because extending the logic on such an idea, all people of North America, and most of the world, are immigrants. 'I always wonder how people can call someone immigrant (and claim they are not) if they are not the mountains and the earth. When the only difference between them and these "immigrants" are one belongs to 3rd millenium CE and the other belongs to 13th millenium BCE immigrant families.'

616c 9y ago

Hanging out with immigrant kids in the US I would tend to agree. A few years in the Persian Gulf with mass immigrant youth mixing with a GCC citizen subset in schools as a policy requirement still provided lots of anecdotes that those GCC students care a lot less than expat kids despite pressure on the latter. They can get jobs slated for GCC nationals only with lax requirements. Many see little value out of college beyond the elite who wanted out. Now immigrant and expat to me means overlapping national and ethnic and national backgrounds. It is an issue of the intended period of their residency. I think govt policy was hoping for the later in institutions like the one I worked at, and it made me sad.

Waterluvian 9y ago

The majority attitude of a classroom was ultimately how I tried to behave during highschool.

maehwasu 9y ago

So you are arguing for skills/intelligence based immigration policies?

rubatuga 9y ago
I mean that's what happens in reality

abandonliberty 9y ago

Not only motivate but provide more motivated/mature peers. Most of my friends in school were immigrants for this reason. Mind you, I also know high school graduates who never bothered to learn English. They find a way to make their living in Chinatown (which is slowly expanding across the city).