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The confusing way Mexicans tell time

111 points by kawera 9y ago

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
erikig 9y ago
Growing up in East Africa, this reminds me a lot of our attitude towards time. In addition, in Swahili time is relative to sunrise which further complicates things: https://youtu.be/L2mekalOTas?t=1m25s https://youtu.be/L2mekalOTas?t=1m25s
iopuy 9y ago
As a general rule of thumb I discount all editorials that start with an unverifiable personal anecdote. They are just too easy to fake and having worked in journalism I can see right through it. Have a piece on illegal immigration? Sure, why not open with the conversation you had with you illegal garder. Legislation on new driving laws, why not harken back to a conveniently apropos story about the nun that honked at you while sitting at a stop light two years ago. These things became the laughing stock of our newsroom. We even had a name for them, "sure it dids".
- Dylan16807 9y ago
  Why the hell does it matter if the author actually waited for ice cream? Seems like a terrible reason to discount the entire thing.
- Aloha 9y ago
  Google apparently helps check this one out. http://blogs.transparent.com/spanish/the-meaning-of-ahorita/ http://blogs.transparent.com/spanish/the-meaning-of-ahorita/ http://gringationcancun.com/2011/07/06/how-to-speak-like-a-mexicano-ahorita/ http://gringationcancun.com/2011/07/06/how-to-speak-like-a-m...
  - mcbits 9y ago
    But both of those articles also start with "When I ..."
- netsharc 9y ago
  Also known as Friedman's taxi driver... https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/04/all-news-fits-thomas-friedmans-expense-account/349583/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/04/all-new...
- phrixus 9y ago
  Haha, or famously, David Brooks' high-school educated friend who is confused by sandwiches https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/opinion/how-we-are-ruining-america.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/opinion/how-we-are-ruinin...
gciruelos 9y ago
>Understanding this word takes not a fluency in the language but rather a fluency in Mexican culture. Wrong. I am native in spanish, not even near to "fluent" in "Mexican culture" and I can understand it. I think any Spanish speaker older than 5 can understand it. Latin America has a myriad of different accents and dialects, far more than in the United States (think more of a UK kind of thing). Some say "ahorita", some don't; but everyone can understand it. All in all, the article is pretty inaccurate.
- cakebrewery 9y ago
  Spanish is my native tongue and if I hear "ahorita" it means "right now" or maybe within a few minutes, but never hours or more. I was born in El Salvador (very close and similar to Mexican culture) and lived there for 17 years.
- ezequiel-garzon 9y ago
  I'm also a native Spanish speaker (not Mexican, older than 5) and, while I would imagine "ahorita" is a relaxed, and hence imprecise, version of "ahora" ("now"), I didn't know, as the article states, it could mean within five years or never. That is certainly a cultural norm and not something you can figure out.
kilroy123 9y ago
Ah, ahorita, I know it well. (I'm an American living in the Mexico) When I hear this, I always assume it means never. Depends on the context of course. In Mexico, they kind of don't ever say the word no. They would rather say: ahorita, maybe, possibly, etc. For example, they will often say, "Thank you" instead of no thank you. It can be frustrating at times, as I'm a direct gringo.
- mirimir 9y ago
  Yes, that's the thing. You don't say "no". And you don't put people into situations where they'd need to say "no".
  - hueving 9y ago
    What does this stem from? Fear of violent conflict?
    - mirimir 9y ago
      Maybe, I suppose. Fear of giving offense. But it's mostly about politeness, I think. There's some of that in the US South, as well.
Vanclief 9y ago
The only confusing thing here is how this got to become an article. There is no magical or complex thing about "Ahorita". In the states some people may tell you "Give me a sec" and have you wait for a couple of minutes. Yet I don't see an article saying "The confusing way Americans tell the time". Unlike the author I know what I am talking about because I am an actuall Mexican.
- gareim 9y ago
  In America, if you asked when something is being restocked, no one is going to say "in a second" or even "in a bit" when they really mean in 5 hours.
  - MichaelBurge 9y ago
    "This project will be done in 2 weeks"
  - dbrgn 9y ago
    In America, people say "just a sec" even though you will wait for more than one second. The confusing way Americans count seconds.
    - loblollyboy 9y ago
      The confusing way I used to piss off all my roommates
    - wingerlang 9y ago
      It would never mean 5 hours though. And if the person knew it was 5 hours or even just X hours, they would likely say it with greater precision than 'just a sec'.
    - derekp7 9y ago
      "Just a sec" implies an indefinite amount of time on the order of that which can be reasonably measured in seconds.
partycoder 9y ago
You could say the same of English. - "Maybe later" -> no / never - "Let me think about it" -> no - "You should receive an e-mail couple of days" - we would like you to leave now. you will receive an email from donotreply@company.com Very implicit, indirect and uncommitted.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  I dispute your two phrases there. Some parents will use "maybe later", etc., to put off saying "no" but it's not everyone that does this - indirect people will.
mirimir 9y ago
In my experience, if you're hearing "ahorita" a lot, you probably ought to chill.
thinbeige 9y ago
tl;dr (one sentence taken from the post): “When a Mexican says ‘ahorita’, it could mean tomorrow, in an hour, within five years or never.”
- anotherbrownguy 9y ago
  Just like when an English speaker says "soon" then.
  - pera 9y ago
    uhm more like "soonish" maybe? oh those Anglos and their confusing way to express time...
- mirimir 9y ago
  OK, so in Spanish, "ahorita" means "right now". In Mexican Spanish, it means more like "We're friends, so I hope that it'll be soon. But then we're friends, so I don't expect that you'll give me a hard time if it's not soon."
  - Oletros 9y ago
    Ahorita is not used outside of Mexico, in other Spanish spoken countries, you use ahora.
    - patrickaljord 9y ago
      Sorry but this is incorrect. I lived in Peru for 4 years and speak to my Peruvian wife in Spanish everyday, they use ahorita the exact same way they do in Mexico, Peru even uses more diminutive than Mexico, and I know it's the same in Bolivia, Chile and Colombia that I have visited. Looks like the author of this article doesn't know a lot about Latin America. I also know Puerto Rico is big on diminutive, so I'd say it's pretty much every single country in Latin America that speaks Spanish, they all use ahorita and even ahoritita this way.
      - 9y ago
foxfired 9y ago
2 fun things I learned. 1. In kirundi (a common language in Burundi) there is one word for both yesterday and tomorrow. They don't confuse the meaning because of the context of the sentence. But when my friend speaking Kirundi spoke french with me on the phone, he often interchanged the two... I never knew if he would visit the next day or had already visited me. http://amajambo.ijuru.com/?q=yesterday&lang=en&start=0 http://amajambo.ijuru.com/?q=yesterday&lang=en&start=0 http://amajambo.ijuru.com/?q=tomorrow&lang=en&start=0 http://amajambo.ijuru.com/?q=tomorrow&lang=en&start=0 2. In swahili (at least in Tanzania), time is told inversly. Think of a circular clock where the 12 o'clock is 6 o'clock, 3 o'clock is 9 o'clock. 9 o'clock is 3 o'clock. Yes it was very confusing to me, but you can get used to anything.
- schoen 9y ago
  > In swahili (at least in Tanzania), time is told inversly. Could this be under the influence of Arabic script? After all, Swahili used to be written in that script. [Edit: In particular, I meant because Arabic is written right-to-left; I think the parent commenter was saying that Swahili speakers think of a clock as moving what we would consider counter-clockwise.]
  - ak39 9y ago
    It's very possible. In Urdu, a a language with strong roots in Farsi and Arabic, and spoken in Pakistan, India ... Iran?, the word tomorrow and yesterday are both "kal". But the (auxiliary) verb associated with "kal" will clearly determine whether the tense is referenced as a tomorrow or a yesterday. "Kal awoge?" "Will you come 'kal'? "Kal ayeh?" "Did you come 'kal'"? My mother speaks Urdu. She too confuses the English versions sometimes. This mispeaking of hers is one the great sources of love we have for her. And she tries her best not give us a chance to show it!
  - throw_away 9y ago
    This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2mekalOTas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2mekalOTas claims that it's because these countries are near the equator, and their sunrise and sunset times are very consistent throughout the year (exactly 12 hours apart). So, they have twelve hours after sunrise and twelve hours after sunset.
noncoml 9y ago
So what did the ice cream guy mean by "ahoriiiita"?
- mirimir 9y ago
  Something like "I have no fucking clue. But hey, I'm just pushing this cart. If you want guaranteed stock, go to Walmart. And have a nice day."
Draco_Au 9y ago
Under a Tree An Apple Falls How does it branch Over the Wedges Down on the slopes Of a Sombrero Fermions Abound Bosons beget Bosons In a sombrero Under a tree SIESTA
franze 9y ago
in austrian-german there is "gleich" which can either mean "right now" or "i will do it when i feel like it" or "f#ck off".
- gurkendoktor 9y ago
  I was thinking of the German "gleich" when reading this article; I remember complaining to my parents about how the word can mean anything from seconds to hours. Although I don't think I've ever seen a "gleich" that did not happen on the same day at least.
- rurban 9y ago
  The other term would be "bald" (ahorita, soon), which means soon or never. "gleich" is a much tighter promise than "bald"
mysterypie 9y ago
What's missing from this story is a translation of ahorita in the context of the ice-cream seller that would make sense to English speakers. How about, "The chocolate ice cream will arrive eventually"? Would that be an context-correct translation of what the ice cream guy was saying?
- vinceguidry 9y ago
  The entire article was literally dedicated to answering that question. The whole point is that it's hard to translate.
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    If it was devoted to answering the question, it did a really poor job at it. It basically said "this is a word that doesn't have a direct translation, oh how odd Mexican culture is". Nothing about whether it's closer to "soon", "any minute now", "in a bit", "at some point", "anon", or any of the other time-indeterminate phrases.
    - vinceguidry 9y ago
      The article clearly stated that it meant all of those things, and whichever meaning is intended for any particular utterance is denoted by both context and tone. I had no problem understanding the article and came away more informed than confused. Maybe slow down more when you read?
      - StavrosK 9y ago
        I'm just not satisfied by an explanation as clumsy as "oh those wacky Mexicans, it means all of the things". Maybe be more critical when you read?
      - mysterypie 9y ago
        > meaning is denoted by both context and tone The article did give an example of context and tone -- a friendly ice cream vendor on the street -- but it didn't give the English translation for that context.
ak39 9y ago
South Africans: http://www.joburgexpat.com/2011/02/just-now-or-now-now.html?m=1 http://www.joburgexpat.com/2011/02/just-now-or-now-now.html?... Culture is a beautiful thing.
- brettfarrow 9y ago
  If I had a dollar for every time "Ek sal kom nou nou" turned into an hour or more, I'd be retired in Camps Bay.
  - ak39 9y ago
    Emphasis on "dollar"! :-)
buyx 9y ago
English is not immune to these sorts of variations. In South African English "now": sometime maybe/immediately. This is hard to decipher. "now-now": very soon/immediately (this usage seems less common nowadays) "just now": at some point in the near future
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  In South Wales they say "I'll be there now" meaning "I'm coming soon". Though the soon can be more like "a little later". It's quite ambiguous. If someone says "I'll be there now, in a minute, but" then they're probably coming soon, 10 or 15 minutes (but/butty is like "buddy"). A classic Wenglish phrase is "where to's by that then?" meaning "where is it?". If you can respond "[over] by er" ("by here") meaning "here" all the better.
grecy 9y ago
What a disgusting what to view other cultures. The only confusing thing here is that this article assumes the way "we" tell time makes sense, and the way "They" tell time is confusing. It is as if somehow everything "we" do is the one and only best way, and any other way is simple and quaint.
- daveFNbuck 9y ago
  I think the article is pretty clear that this is only confusing to outsiders. Nowhere does she say that her culture's understanding of time is superior. Instead, the article ends with her praising the superiority of the Mexican understanding of time.
- mkl 9y ago
  It's written for an audience. The way that audience tells time does make sense to us (in the audience), and other ways can be confusing to us. There is no judgement whatsoever, and no claim that one view is more right. It is an explanation of differences. I think you are imagining insults that were not intended, much like the author's initial misinterpretation of "ahorita".
neilwilson 9y ago
What would be an interesting study would be to graph the preciseness with which a culture views time and the level of advanced society they have. Slavery to the clock may stick in the craw a bit, but cultures that took time seriously could co-ordinate groups and individuals better and get more done. The result was a higher standard of living. Is the Japanese obsession with getting their trains precisely on time one of the reasons they were able to industrialise so quickly?
- daveFNbuck 9y ago
  How do you measure the level of advanced society?
  - vinchuco 9y ago
    Whatever makes you feel better about yourself, obviously /s
- frooxie 9y ago
  According to the book "Bad Samaritans: The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism", countries become hardworking and disciplined because of economic development, rather than the other way around. A long but interesting quote: "Having toured lots of factories in a developing country, an Australian management consultant told the government officials who had invited him: “My impression as to your cheap labor was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of national heritage.” This Australian consultant was understandably worried that the workers of the country he was visiting did not have the right work eithic. In fact, he was being quite polite. He could have been blunt and just called them lazy. No wonder the country was poor — not dirt poor, but with an income level that was less than a quarter of Australia’s. The country in question… was Japan in 1915. It doesn’t feel quite right that someone from Australia (a nation known today for its ability to have a good time) could call the Japanese lazy. But this is how most westerners saw Japan a century ago. In his 1903 book, Evolution of the Japanese, the American missionary Sidney Gulick observed that many Japanese “give an impression…of being lazy and utterly indifferent to the passage of time.” Gulick was no casual observer. He lived in Japan for 25 years (1888-1913), fully mastered the Japanese language, and taught in Japanese university. After his return to the US, he was known for his campaign for racial equality on behalf of Asian Americans. Nevertheless, he saw ample confirmation of the cultural stereotype of the Japanese as an “easy-going” and “emotional” people who possessed qualities like “lightness of heart, freedom from all anxiety for the future, living chiefly for the present.” (...) This was not just a western prejudice against eastern peoples. The British used to say similar things about the Germans. Before their economic take-off in the mid-19th century, the Germans were typically described by the British as “a dull and heavy people.” “Indolence” was a word that was frequently associated with the Germanic nature."
loblollyboy 9y ago
How is that different from 'wait a minute' or 'wait a sec'?
bontaq 9y ago
Seems sort of like how we use "minute" where I'm from. Like, "I'll be there in a minute," could be any moment or five hours from now. A hot minute is more a statement that they're on their way, no indication of arrival time. It's nice
vinchuco 9y ago
Words can have more than one meaning based on context? Mexicans are so confusing! Nature is so wild...
ProxCoques 9y ago
This reminds me that it wasn't until recently that I realised that in English, the word "next" when applied to recurring days of the week in English does NOT mean the nearest chronological occurrence of that day. It means the one AFTER it. So, if a friend says to you on Wednesday that they'll meet you "next Friday" that means Friday AFTER the coming one.
- austinjp 9y ago
  Yup. Or the idiomatic forms "Tuesday next" (not the most imminent Tuesday, the one after that) and "Monday week" (one week after the most imminent Monday). Frankly I hate them and always request a date for clarification!
- manmal 9y ago
  It's the same in German, "nächster Freitag" means the one after this one.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  Hmm, I'm not sure it's that simple! This is how I think it goes: (en-gb) "Next Friday" is not "the next" (which is called "this Friday" if its the same week). If the next Friday occurs in the next week then people will say "this Friday coming" to specify that they don't mean the Friday that's just gone. "Next Friday" seems to mean "Friday of the next week", so it can either be the next chronological Friday or the next-but-one. A sentence like "This Friday Jules and me were going to go to the cinema but something came up." could be said of a past situation - if said on Saturday or Sunday. Similarly "Next Friday Jules and me were going to go to the cinema but something came up." could be said of the following week - so it's the next Friday on Saturday/Sunday but the next-but-one any other day. There are seemingly geographic differences in the UK as to which "next" is intended IME. "Friday coming" is always the next Friday chronologically. There are similar problems with, for example, "last Friday", especially if it was yesterday most people will think you mean "the Friday of last week".
  - twic 9y ago
    That's exactly why we say oxt: http://oxtweekend.com/ http://oxtweekend.com/
lwansbrough 9y ago
Wow, an entire article dedicated to the Mexican version of the word "soon!"
BrandoElFollito 9y ago
Interestingly this is also somehow the case with Polish. The word for "moment" is "chwila". When someone will come in a "chwila", it means that this will happen in some time between, say, 15 min and an hour. "chwilka" is a diminutive which shortens the distance with the speaker and usually means "chwila" if not longer. It also implies that you ce some kind of esteem to the speaker (not much, it is above the "fuck off" esteem). Then comes "chwileczka", diminutive of "chwilka". It is usually a shorter "chwilka" , with its mark of esteem. This may heavily vary between regions, though.
gerardnll 9y ago
'Ahorita' is not used in Spain. And adding '-ita' or '-ito' to a word makes it diminutive.
uglycoyote 9y ago
When I visited Mexico I stayed in a hotel where I needed to ask in my broken Spanish for a towel. The hotel employee told me "ahorita te las llevan" which she wrote on a piece of paper for me since I looked confused and didn't understand the response verbally. I looked up ahorita in my dictionary which translated it as "soon", which clarified things instantly. So I was a bit surprised that the author of this article made ahorita out to be such a complicated concept when in fact the word "soon" seems to be an apt translation, and is used in English in much the same nebulous way. If only this poor fellow had had the same dictionary as I did he would have saved some time and frustration, but perhaps not had a good enough story to write a BBC article about.
- brianwawok 9y ago
  It's not that simple though. Ahorita can also be a polite never. In English, you would almost never use "soon" for a polite never. You would say something more like "I will think about that", or "Maybe", or "we will see..". Soon would be a promise to do it at some point in the near future.
fallinghawks 9y ago
From when I worked in restaurant: when your hands are full and a customer asks for something, you tell them you'll get to it "right away." It sounds satisfying to the customer, but actually means you'll do it when you are done with whatever you're doing. This seems very much in line with "ahorita."
2_listerine_pls 9y ago
It's not a cultural difference, it a word that has multiple meanings, Why is this surprising?
- brianwawok 9y ago
  Have you spent any time in Mexico? Not say Cancun but actual real Mexico? Time is a HUGE cultural difference. The article is spot on. Being 2 hours late to a party is normal.
  - 2_listerine_pls 9y ago
    I am from Mexico.
Kiro 9y ago
OT but when I read "ahorita regreso" it felt like I had heard it a million times but couldn't figure out why since I don't have any reason to hear Spanish that often. Then I realized... Sombra!
SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
Could be worse. Could be Danish: http://www.fyidenmark.com/danish_time.html http://www.fyidenmark.com/danish_time.html
bitwize 9y ago
This is not really confusing. The English equivalent to ahorita is "Real Soon Now". Q: When is that shipment from Amazon due to arrive? A: Oh, real soon now. Q: When is GIMP finally going to get CMYK support? A: Oh, Real Soon Now.
roystonvassey 9y ago
In the same vein, a favourite anecdote of mine is about languages that don't have words for 'left, right, ahead, behind' and instead always use directions of the compass - 'north, south, east, west'. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.html
tabtab 9y ago
"Build a clock-wall around them and make them read it for us!" -Tonald J. Drump

111 points by kawera 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Growing up in East Africa, this reminds me a lot of our attitude towards time. In addition, in Swahili time is relative to sunrise which further complicates things: https://youtu.be/L2mekalOTas?t=1m25s https://youtu.be/L2mekalOTas?t=1m25s

iopuy 9y ago

As a general rule of thumb I discount all editorials that start with an unverifiable personal anecdote. They are just too easy to fake and having worked in journalism I can see right through it. Have a piece on illegal immigration? Sure, why not open with the conversation you had with you illegal garder. Legislation on new driving laws, why not harken back to a conveniently apropos story about the nun that honked at you while sitting at a stop light two years ago. These things became the laughing stock of our newsroom. We even had a name for them, "sure it dids".

Dylan16807 9y ago
Why the hell does it matter if the author actually waited for ice cream? Seems like a terrible reason to discount the entire thing.
Aloha 9y ago
Google apparently helps check this one out. http://blogs.transparent.com/spanish/the-meaning-of-ahorita/ http://blogs.transparent.com/spanish/the-meaning-of-ahorita/ http://gringationcancun.com/2011/07/06/how-to-speak-like-a-mexicano-ahorita/ http://gringationcancun.com/2011/07/06/how-to-speak-like-a-m...
- mcbits 9y ago
  But both of those articles also start with "When I ..."
netsharc 9y ago
Also known as Friedman's taxi driver... https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/04/all-news-fits-thomas-friedmans-expense-account/349583/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/04/all-new...
phrixus 9y ago
Haha, or famously, David Brooks' high-school educated friend who is confused by sandwiches https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/opinion/how-we-are-ruining-america.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/opinion/how-we-are-ruinin...

gciruelos 9y ago

>Understanding this word takes not a fluency in the language but rather a fluency in Mexican culture. Wrong. I am native in spanish, not even near to "fluent" in "Mexican culture" and I can understand it. I think any Spanish speaker older than 5 can understand it. Latin America has a myriad of different accents and dialects, far more than in the United States (think more of a UK kind of thing). Some say "ahorita", some don't; but everyone can understand it. All in all, the article is pretty inaccurate.

cakebrewery 9y ago
Spanish is my native tongue and if I hear "ahorita" it means "right now" or maybe within a few minutes, but never hours or more. I was born in El Salvador (very close and similar to Mexican culture) and lived there for 17 years.
ezequiel-garzon 9y ago
I'm also a native Spanish speaker (not Mexican, older than 5) and, while I would imagine "ahorita" is a relaxed, and hence imprecise, version of "ahora" ("now"), I didn't know, as the article states, it could mean within five years or never. That is certainly a cultural norm and not something you can figure out.

kilroy123 9y ago

Ah, ahorita, I know it well. (I'm an American living in the Mexico) When I hear this, I always assume it means never. Depends on the context of course. In Mexico, they kind of don't ever say the word no. They would rather say: ahorita, maybe, possibly, etc. For example, they will often say, "Thank you" instead of no thank you. It can be frustrating at times, as I'm a direct gringo.

mirimir 9y ago
Yes, that's the thing. You don't say "no". And you don't put people into situations where they'd need to say "no".
- hueving 9y ago
  What does this stem from? Fear of violent conflict?
  - mirimir 9y ago
    Maybe, I suppose. Fear of giving offense. But it's mostly about politeness, I think. There's some of that in the US South, as well.

Vanclief 9y ago

The only confusing thing here is how this got to become an article. There is no magical or complex thing about "Ahorita". In the states some people may tell you "Give me a sec" and have you wait for a couple of minutes. Yet I don't see an article saying "The confusing way Americans tell the time". Unlike the author I know what I am talking about because I am an actuall Mexican.

gareim 9y ago
In America, if you asked when something is being restocked, no one is going to say "in a second" or even "in a bit" when they really mean in 5 hours.
- MichaelBurge 9y ago
  "This project will be done in 2 weeks"
- dbrgn 9y ago
  In America, people say "just a sec" even though you will wait for more than one second. The confusing way Americans count seconds.
  - loblollyboy 9y ago
    The confusing way I used to piss off all my roommates
  - wingerlang 9y ago
    It would never mean 5 hours though. And if the person knew it was 5 hours or even just X hours, they would likely say it with greater precision than 'just a sec'.
  - derekp7 9y ago
    "Just a sec" implies an indefinite amount of time on the order of that which can be reasonably measured in seconds.

partycoder 9y ago

You could say the same of English. - "Maybe later" -> no / never - "Let me think about it" -> no - "You should receive an e-mail couple of days" - we would like you to leave now. you will receive an email from donotreply@company.com Very implicit, indirect and uncommitted.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago
I dispute your two phrases there. Some parents will use "maybe later", etc., to put off saying "no" but it's not everyone that does this - indirect people will.

mirimir 9y ago

In my experience, if you're hearing "ahorita" a lot, you probably ought to chill.

thinbeige 9y ago

tl;dr (one sentence taken from the post): “When a Mexican says ‘ahorita’, it could mean tomorrow, in an hour, within five years or never.”

anotherbrownguy 9y ago
Just like when an English speaker says "soon" then.
- pera 9y ago
  uhm more like "soonish" maybe? oh those Anglos and their confusing way to express time...
mirimir 9y ago
OK, so in Spanish, "ahorita" means "right now". In Mexican Spanish, it means more like "We're friends, so I hope that it'll be soon. But then we're friends, so I don't expect that you'll give me a hard time if it's not soon."
- Oletros 9y ago
  Ahorita is not used outside of Mexico, in other Spanish spoken countries, you use ahora.
  - patrickaljord 9y ago
    Sorry but this is incorrect. I lived in Peru for 4 years and speak to my Peruvian wife in Spanish everyday, they use ahorita the exact same way they do in Mexico, Peru even uses more diminutive than Mexico, and I know it's the same in Bolivia, Chile and Colombia that I have visited. Looks like the author of this article doesn't know a lot about Latin America. I also know Puerto Rico is big on diminutive, so I'd say it's pretty much every single country in Latin America that speaks Spanish, they all use ahorita and even ahoritita this way.
    - 9y ago

foxfired 9y ago

2 fun things I learned. 1. In kirundi (a common language in Burundi) there is one word for both yesterday and tomorrow. They don't confuse the meaning because of the context of the sentence. But when my friend speaking Kirundi spoke french with me on the phone, he often interchanged the two... I never knew if he would visit the next day or had already visited me. http://amajambo.ijuru.com/?q=yesterday&lang=en&start=0 http://amajambo.ijuru.com/?q=yesterday&lang=en&start=0 http://amajambo.ijuru.com/?q=tomorrow&lang=en&start=0 http://amajambo.ijuru.com/?q=tomorrow&lang=en&start=0 2. In swahili (at least in Tanzania), time is told inversly. Think of a circular clock where the 12 o'clock is 6 o'clock, 3 o'clock is 9 o'clock. 9 o'clock is 3 o'clock. Yes it was very confusing to me, but you can get used to anything.

schoen 9y ago
> In swahili (at least in Tanzania), time is told inversly. Could this be under the influence of Arabic script? After all, Swahili used to be written in that script. [Edit: In particular, I meant because Arabic is written right-to-left; I think the parent commenter was saying that Swahili speakers think of a clock as moving what we would consider counter-clockwise.]
- ak39 9y ago
  It's very possible. In Urdu, a a language with strong roots in Farsi and Arabic, and spoken in Pakistan, India ... Iran?, the word tomorrow and yesterday are both "kal". But the (auxiliary) verb associated with "kal" will clearly determine whether the tense is referenced as a tomorrow or a yesterday. "Kal awoge?" "Will you come 'kal'? "Kal ayeh?" "Did you come 'kal'"? My mother speaks Urdu. She too confuses the English versions sometimes. This mispeaking of hers is one the great sources of love we have for her. And she tries her best not give us a chance to show it!
- throw_away 9y ago
  This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2mekalOTas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2mekalOTas claims that it's because these countries are near the equator, and their sunrise and sunset times are very consistent throughout the year (exactly 12 hours apart). So, they have twelve hours after sunrise and twelve hours after sunset.

noncoml 9y ago

So what did the ice cream guy mean by "ahoriiiita"?

mirimir 9y ago
Something like "I have no fucking clue. But hey, I'm just pushing this cart. If you want guaranteed stock, go to Walmart. And have a nice day."

Draco_Au 9y ago

Under a Tree An Apple Falls How does it branch Over the Wedges Down on the slopes Of a Sombrero Fermions Abound Bosons beget Bosons In a sombrero Under a tree SIESTA

franze 9y ago

in austrian-german there is "gleich" which can either mean "right now" or "i will do it when i feel like it" or "f#ck off".

gurkendoktor 9y ago
I was thinking of the German "gleich" when reading this article; I remember complaining to my parents about how the word can mean anything from seconds to hours. Although I don't think I've ever seen a "gleich" that did not happen on the same day at least.
rurban 9y ago
The other term would be "bald" (ahorita, soon), which means soon or never. "gleich" is a much tighter promise than "bald"

mysterypie 9y ago

What's missing from this story is a translation of ahorita in the context of the ice-cream seller that would make sense to English speakers. How about, "The chocolate ice cream will arrive eventually"? Would that be an context-correct translation of what the ice cream guy was saying?

vinceguidry 9y ago
The entire article was literally dedicated to answering that question. The whole point is that it's hard to translate.
- StavrosK 9y ago
  If it was devoted to answering the question, it did a really poor job at it. It basically said "this is a word that doesn't have a direct translation, oh how odd Mexican culture is". Nothing about whether it's closer to "soon", "any minute now", "in a bit", "at some point", "anon", or any of the other time-indeterminate phrases.
  - vinceguidry 9y ago
    The article clearly stated that it meant all of those things, and whichever meaning is intended for any particular utterance is denoted by both context and tone. I had no problem understanding the article and came away more informed than confused. Maybe slow down more when you read?
    - StavrosK 9y ago
      I'm just not satisfied by an explanation as clumsy as "oh those wacky Mexicans, it means all of the things". Maybe be more critical when you read?
    - mysterypie 9y ago
      > meaning is denoted by both context and tone The article did give an example of context and tone -- a friendly ice cream vendor on the street -- but it didn't give the English translation for that context.

ak39 9y ago

South Africans: http://www.joburgexpat.com/2011/02/just-now-or-now-now.html?m=1 http://www.joburgexpat.com/2011/02/just-now-or-now-now.html?... Culture is a beautiful thing.

brettfarrow 9y ago
If I had a dollar for every time "Ek sal kom nou nou" turned into an hour or more, I'd be retired in Camps Bay.
- ak39 9y ago
  Emphasis on "dollar"! :-)

buyx 9y ago

English is not immune to these sorts of variations. In South African English "now": sometime maybe/immediately. This is hard to decipher. "now-now": very soon/immediately (this usage seems less common nowadays) "just now": at some point in the near future

pbhjpbhj 9y ago
In South Wales they say "I'll be there now" meaning "I'm coming soon". Though the soon can be more like "a little later". It's quite ambiguous. If someone says "I'll be there now, in a minute, but" then they're probably coming soon, 10 or 15 minutes (but/butty is like "buddy"). A classic Wenglish phrase is "where to's by that then?" meaning "where is it?". If you can respond "[over] by er" ("by here") meaning "here" all the better.

grecy 9y ago

What a disgusting what to view other cultures. The only confusing thing here is that this article assumes the way "we" tell time makes sense, and the way "They" tell time is confusing. It is as if somehow everything "we" do is the one and only best way, and any other way is simple and quaint.

daveFNbuck 9y ago
I think the article is pretty clear that this is only confusing to outsiders. Nowhere does she say that her culture's understanding of time is superior. Instead, the article ends with her praising the superiority of the Mexican understanding of time.
mkl 9y ago
It's written for an audience. The way that audience tells time does make sense to us (in the audience), and other ways can be confusing to us. There is no judgement whatsoever, and no claim that one view is more right. It is an explanation of differences. I think you are imagining insults that were not intended, much like the author's initial misinterpretation of "ahorita".

neilwilson 9y ago

What would be an interesting study would be to graph the preciseness with which a culture views time and the level of advanced society they have. Slavery to the clock may stick in the craw a bit, but cultures that took time seriously could co-ordinate groups and individuals better and get more done. The result was a higher standard of living. Is the Japanese obsession with getting their trains precisely on time one of the reasons they were able to industrialise so quickly?

daveFNbuck 9y ago
How do you measure the level of advanced society?
- vinchuco 9y ago
  Whatever makes you feel better about yourself, obviously /s
frooxie 9y ago
According to the book "Bad Samaritans: The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism", countries become hardworking and disciplined because of economic development, rather than the other way around. A long but interesting quote: "Having toured lots of factories in a developing country, an Australian management consultant told the government officials who had invited him: “My impression as to your cheap labor was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of national heritage.” This Australian consultant was understandably worried that the workers of the country he was visiting did not have the right work eithic. In fact, he was being quite polite. He could have been blunt and just called them lazy. No wonder the country was poor — not dirt poor, but with an income level that was less than a quarter of Australia’s. The country in question… was Japan in 1915. It doesn’t feel quite right that someone from Australia (a nation known today for its ability to have a good time) could call the Japanese lazy. But this is how most westerners saw Japan a century ago. In his 1903 book, Evolution of the Japanese, the American missionary Sidney Gulick observed that many Japanese “give an impression…of being lazy and utterly indifferent to the passage of time.” Gulick was no casual observer. He lived in Japan for 25 years (1888-1913), fully mastered the Japanese language, and taught in Japanese university. After his return to the US, he was known for his campaign for racial equality on behalf of Asian Americans. Nevertheless, he saw ample confirmation of the cultural stereotype of the Japanese as an “easy-going” and “emotional” people who possessed qualities like “lightness of heart, freedom from all anxiety for the future, living chiefly for the present.” (...) This was not just a western prejudice against eastern peoples. The British used to say similar things about the Germans. Before their economic take-off in the mid-19th century, the Germans were typically described by the British as “a dull and heavy people.” “Indolence” was a word that was frequently associated with the Germanic nature."

loblollyboy 9y ago

How is that different from 'wait a minute' or 'wait a sec'?

bontaq 9y ago

Seems sort of like how we use "minute" where I'm from. Like, "I'll be there in a minute," could be any moment or five hours from now. A hot minute is more a statement that they're on their way, no indication of arrival time. It's nice

vinchuco 9y ago

Words can have more than one meaning based on context? Mexicans are so confusing! Nature is so wild...

ProxCoques 9y ago

This reminds me that it wasn't until recently that I realised that in English, the word "next" when applied to recurring days of the week in English does NOT mean the nearest chronological occurrence of that day. It means the one AFTER it. So, if a friend says to you on Wednesday that they'll meet you "next Friday" that means Friday AFTER the coming one.

austinjp 9y ago
Yup. Or the idiomatic forms "Tuesday next" (not the most imminent Tuesday, the one after that) and "Monday week" (one week after the most imminent Monday). Frankly I hate them and always request a date for clarification!
manmal 9y ago
It's the same in German, "nächster Freitag" means the one after this one.
pbhjpbhj 9y ago
Hmm, I'm not sure it's that simple! This is how I think it goes: (en-gb) "Next Friday" is not "the next" (which is called "this Friday" if its the same week). If the next Friday occurs in the next week then people will say "this Friday coming" to specify that they don't mean the Friday that's just gone. "Next Friday" seems to mean "Friday of the next week", so it can either be the next chronological Friday or the next-but-one. A sentence like "This Friday Jules and me were going to go to the cinema but something came up." could be said of a past situation - if said on Saturday or Sunday. Similarly "Next Friday Jules and me were going to go to the cinema but something came up." could be said of the following week - so it's the next Friday on Saturday/Sunday but the next-but-one any other day. There are seemingly geographic differences in the UK as to which "next" is intended IME. "Friday coming" is always the next Friday chronologically. There are similar problems with, for example, "last Friday", especially if it was yesterday most people will think you mean "the Friday of last week".
- twic 9y ago
  That's exactly why we say oxt: http://oxtweekend.com/ http://oxtweekend.com/

lwansbrough 9y ago

Wow, an entire article dedicated to the Mexican version of the word "soon!"

BrandoElFollito 9y ago

Interestingly this is also somehow the case with Polish. The word for "moment" is "chwila". When someone will come in a "chwila", it means that this will happen in some time between, say, 15 min and an hour. "chwilka" is a diminutive which shortens the distance with the speaker and usually means "chwila" if not longer. It also implies that you ce some kind of esteem to the speaker (not much, it is above the "fuck off" esteem). Then comes "chwileczka", diminutive of "chwilka". It is usually a shorter "chwilka" , with its mark of esteem. This may heavily vary between regions, though.

gerardnll 9y ago

'Ahorita' is not used in Spain. And adding '-ita' or '-ito' to a word makes it diminutive.

uglycoyote 9y ago

When I visited Mexico I stayed in a hotel where I needed to ask in my broken Spanish for a towel. The hotel employee told me "ahorita te las llevan" which she wrote on a piece of paper for me since I looked confused and didn't understand the response verbally. I looked up ahorita in my dictionary which translated it as "soon", which clarified things instantly. So I was a bit surprised that the author of this article made ahorita out to be such a complicated concept when in fact the word "soon" seems to be an apt translation, and is used in English in much the same nebulous way. If only this poor fellow had had the same dictionary as I did he would have saved some time and frustration, but perhaps not had a good enough story to write a BBC article about.

brianwawok 9y ago
It's not that simple though. Ahorita can also be a polite never. In English, you would almost never use "soon" for a polite never. You would say something more like "I will think about that", or "Maybe", or "we will see..". Soon would be a promise to do it at some point in the near future.

fallinghawks 9y ago

From when I worked in restaurant: when your hands are full and a customer asks for something, you tell them you'll get to it "right away." It sounds satisfying to the customer, but actually means you'll do it when you are done with whatever you're doing. This seems very much in line with "ahorita."

2_listerine_pls 9y ago

It's not a cultural difference, it a word that has multiple meanings, Why is this surprising?

brianwawok 9y ago
Have you spent any time in Mexico? Not say Cancun but actual real Mexico? Time is a HUGE cultural difference. The article is spot on. Being 2 hours late to a party is normal.
- 2_listerine_pls 9y ago
  I am from Mexico.

Kiro 9y ago

OT but when I read "ahorita regreso" it felt like I had heard it a million times but couldn't figure out why since I don't have any reason to hear Spanish that often. Then I realized... Sombra!

SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago

Could be worse. Could be Danish: http://www.fyidenmark.com/danish_time.html http://www.fyidenmark.com/danish_time.html

bitwize 9y ago

This is not really confusing. The English equivalent to ahorita is "Real Soon Now". Q: When is that shipment from Amazon due to arrive? A: Oh, real soon now. Q: When is GIMP finally going to get CMYK support? A: Oh, Real Soon Now.

roystonvassey 9y ago

In the same vein, a favourite anecdote of mine is about languages that don't have words for 'left, right, ahead, behind' and instead always use directions of the compass - 'north, south, east, west'. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.html

tabtab 9y ago

"Build a clock-wall around them and make them read it for us!" -Tonald J. Drump