8 ms·

Is there a HUD or do I have to move my eyes to the centre console to check my speed? Seems like bad ergonomics to me... and whereas the road ahead is perhaps st

Is there a HUD or do I have to move my eyes to the centre console to check my speed? Seems like bad ergonomics to me... and whereas the road ahead is perhaps still in my peripheral vision when I check my speedo, its less so if I am glancing at the centre console (which maybe has a bunch of other distracting things on it as well?)

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
erikpukinskis 9y ago
The screen is not in the center console it sticks above the dash. Seems like the speed is probably just as close to the road as any other vehicle if not closer. Do you think a diagonal saccade is worse than a vertical one for some reason?
- jimmcslim 9y ago
  Thanks for teaching me a new word! Saccade! Yes, I do think it is worse, but that's just my gut feel, presumably Telsa designer's think otherwise. Not many other cars with the speed in the center console (older new-generation Minis come to mind though).
  - sunstone 9y ago
    You might be in over your head with a guy who knows a word like saccade.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- manigandham 9y ago
  > Do you think a diagonal saccade is worse than a vertical one for some reason? Yes, definitely. You don't? Vertical movement is much easier, just try it. It's also easier to focus since one eye isn't farther away or blocked by your nose.
  - vsl 9y ago
    From experience: when tired, glancing down while driving is hard, while glancing sideways (at nav) is fine.
- lobster_johnson 9y ago
  Nitpick: Moving your eyes to look at a speedometer is a conscious muscle movement, not a saccade. Saccades are involuntary, automatic and not consciously felt; they're the sensory system's way of automatically building up the visual "scene" in your brain from multiple images even though you feel like your gaze is fixed on a single point. You can't focus on the road and read the speedometer from your peripheral vision.
  - erikpukinskis 9y ago
    In the back of my mind, I knew there was was a "this is not technically a saccade" situation but couldn't remember why. Thanks for the clarification.
guelo 9y ago
Yea that interior is kind of weird looking http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2017/07/Tesla-Model-3-interior.jpg?interpolation=lanczos-none&fit=around%7C700%3A467 http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2017/07/Tesla-Model...
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  I don't follow how that interior design, with important information for the driver off to the right, can pass safety regulations. Presumably an exception is made because the car (mostly?) knows the speed limit and alerts if you exceed? I'm making s wild guess here. Maybe it's actually less distracting than having instrumentation in front of you? I'd like to hire on for a few days when the opportunity arises.
  - 83457 9y ago
    My wife's has driven a Yaris for 10+ years which has everything on center console. You get used to it within minutes of driving it. Obviously it is perfectly legal
    - SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
      > Yaris which has everything on center console Last time that I drove a Yaris, and that was a few years back, there was a Head Up Display which put a few things against the windscreen, directly in front of the driver.
    - Tepix 9y ago
      Here's the law for Germany: StVZO: ( https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvzo_2012/__57.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvzo_2012/__57.html ) B. Fahrzeuge III. Bau- und Betriebsvorschriften §57 Geschwindigkeitsmeßgerät und Wegstreckenzähler (1) Kraftfahrzeuge müssen mit einem im unmittelbaren Sichtfeld des Fahrzeugführers liegenden Geschwindigkeitsmeßgerät ausgerüstet sein. Translated: "the speedometer has to be in the immediate field of vision of the driver". It's somewhat murky.
prostoalex 9y ago
Elon mentioned the interior was redesigned with full autonomy in mind. I guess the use case "driver maintaining the vehicle speed via non-autonomous pedal pressure while wanting to check the vehicle speed because he did not enable cruise mode" is a weird edge case for them. On autopilot the car will stick to the assigned speed (with adaptive cruise control slowing down or speeding up depending on the traffic in front of you). In fully autonomous driving mode the car will read the speed limit signs and adjust.
- chc 9y ago
  It's pretty bizarre to treat driving without an $8000 options package as a weird edge case. If autonomous driving is that central, it seems like it should be a basic feature, not an upgrade.
  - prostoalex 9y ago
    The company likely has the data on the percentage of customers opting in for autonomous features and likely optimized for that. Considering the hardware in every vehicle supports autonomy, it's a feature that could be sold to the customer later on or as an on-demand subscription. If autonomous driving is out of the question, what makes Model 3 appealing compared to a Chevy Bolt, Chevy Volt or a plug-in Prius? edit: I believe that adaptive cruise control (automatic speed adjustment based on the obstacles in front) is included in basic config, autopilot would include that + lane steering + lane change assistance with blind spot monitoring.
    - ranit 9y ago
      > what makes Model 3 appealing compared to ... Everything that the reviewer wrote.
      - prostoalex 9y ago
        The reviewer went out of his way to emphasize the test drive is for a fully-loaded version. > Franz’ car is a loaded version—a Premium (add $5,000), meaning better-grade materials, wood-veneered dash, 12-way front seats, 12-speaker sound, heated rear seats, side-by-side inductive phone chargers, and that panoramic glass ceiling > paired with this car’s $9,000 long-range battery > Tesla Model 3 is available with Enhanced Autopilot ($5,000) and for another $3,000 what’s called “Full Self-Driving Capability” > $59,500 before incentives—including $1,500 for the larger 19-inch wheels (18 inches are standard), and a grand for the red multicoat paint > And it’ll be a while before $35,000 versions are built Their review of the $35,000 vehicle might be very different.
roesel 9y ago
Renault Espace (among others) has had this for quite a while and it works fairly well. I'd even say it keeps your peripheral vision on the road more than the traditional clocks (if done right).
- agumonkey 9y ago
  I'd love to test that. my tiny experience is that anything in the center will divert my view too much.
- wibr 9y ago
  I agree that it works well in the Espace, however my impression is that while in the Model 3 the display is in the center like in the Espace it's also closer to the driver, making the viewing angle larger...
laydn 9y ago
Center console indicators are quite common. One advantage is that, the indicators are never blocked when you are in a turn. With your traditional instrument cluster placement, the steering wheel blocks the indicators. Cars with instruments in the center dashboard: Mini Cooper: http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/2010-mini-cooper-hardtop-2-door-coupe-s-dashboard_100304478_l.jpg http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/2010-mini-cooper-hardtop-2-do... Toyota Yaris: https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/izmo/306771/2009_toyota_yaris_dashboard.jpg https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/izmo/306771/2009_... Saturn ION: http://consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/05130061990005.jpg http://consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/05130061... Citroen C4 Picasso: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fe/d6/5a/fed65a4f2364be22592dc89c495a4587--citroen-c-picasso-family-cars.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fe/d6/5a/fed65a4f2... etc...
- oevi 9y ago
  Or the Renault Twingo for an even more minimalistic approach: http://i.auto-bild.de/ir_img/1/1/3/2/4/4/5/Renault-Twingo-729x486-fd82dcda12d7adc6.jpg http://i.auto-bild.de/ir_img/1/1/3/2/4/4/5/Renault-Twingo-72...
  - tbassetto 9y ago
    That's a Twingo from 10 years ago, right? Today it looks more like: http://indianautosblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/New-Renault-Twingo-dashboard-official-image.jpg http://indianautosblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/New-Re...
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  The Yaris in particular must be easy to build as either a left hand drive or right hand drive vehicle. I'd hazard a guess that was a significant motivating factor for Toyota.
- narrowtux 9y ago
  I drive a Mini Cooper from time to time and it's not great. They have a small screen behind the wheel which also displays the speed, but with a low refresh rate so you can go over the limit easily if you don't pay attention.
Theodores 9y ago
I see it as 'Don't make me think!' (Steve Krug) applied to a fresh redesign of what is really needed and where. This is the Google home page compared to Alta Vista. The absence of dials, switches, knobs, hidden buttons, things you have to twist in their own special way, it is all good. Clearly there are some situations where the buttons have to exist, e.g. for seat adjustment, as you wouldn't want to be doing that whilst leaning for the screen. However, the minimal approach and a clear, easy to use console is way ahead of what other cars are doing for their interiors. Without the clutter of an existing car interior I am sure that big flashing lights on the centre console about exceeding the speed limit will be perfectly visible to all occupants of the car. This latter point is important, routinely my brother in law drives at speeds that are faster than what he tells my sister. She is sat next to him but can't see the speedometer, so if he says one speed then she has to believe him, even if it is just slightly fast rather than the true excessively fast figure. Having a centre console is a bit more fair to passengers wanting to know that information too. If it is the car rather than the driver that is driving I guess this is no different - everyone including the driver is a passenger.
- am1988 9y ago
  > The absence of dials, switches, knobs, hidden buttons, things you have to twist in their own special way, it is all good. In it's place are things you have to touch and slide without the tacticle feedback and consistency of controls. > This latter point is important, routinely my brother in law drives at speeds that are faster than what he tells my sister. She is sat next to him but can't see the speedometer, so if he says one speed then she has to believe him, even if it is just slightly fast rather than the true excessively fast figure. Having a centre console is a bit more fair to passengers wanting to know that information too SO this car is gonna be mentioned in divorce proceedings /s
dzhiurgis 9y ago
HUD on ebay is like $20, works off OBDII port.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

erikpukinskis 9y ago

The screen is not in the center console it sticks above the dash. Seems like the speed is probably just as close to the road as any other vehicle if not closer. Do you think a diagonal saccade is worse than a vertical one for some reason?

jimmcslim 9y ago
Thanks for teaching me a new word! Saccade! Yes, I do think it is worse, but that's just my gut feel, presumably Telsa designer's think otherwise. Not many other cars with the speed in the center console (older new-generation Minis come to mind though).
- sunstone 9y ago
  You might be in over your head with a guy who knows a word like saccade.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
manigandham 9y ago
> Do you think a diagonal saccade is worse than a vertical one for some reason? Yes, definitely. You don't? Vertical movement is much easier, just try it. It's also easier to focus since one eye isn't farther away or blocked by your nose.
- vsl 9y ago
  From experience: when tired, glancing down while driving is hard, while glancing sideways (at nav) is fine.
lobster_johnson 9y ago
Nitpick: Moving your eyes to look at a speedometer is a conscious muscle movement, not a saccade. Saccades are involuntary, automatic and not consciously felt; they're the sensory system's way of automatically building up the visual "scene" in your brain from multiple images even though you feel like your gaze is fixed on a single point. You can't focus on the road and read the speedometer from your peripheral vision.
- erikpukinskis 9y ago
  In the back of my mind, I knew there was was a "this is not technically a saccade" situation but couldn't remember why. Thanks for the clarification.

guelo 9y ago

Yea that interior is kind of weird looking http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2017/07/Tesla-Model-3-interior.jpg?interpolation=lanczos-none&fit=around%7C700%3A467 http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2017/07/Tesla-Model...

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
I don't follow how that interior design, with important information for the driver off to the right, can pass safety regulations. Presumably an exception is made because the car (mostly?) knows the speed limit and alerts if you exceed? I'm making s wild guess here. Maybe it's actually less distracting than having instrumentation in front of you? I'd like to hire on for a few days when the opportunity arises.
- 83457 9y ago
  My wife's has driven a Yaris for 10+ years which has everything on center console. You get used to it within minutes of driving it. Obviously it is perfectly legal
  - SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
    > Yaris which has everything on center console Last time that I drove a Yaris, and that was a few years back, there was a Head Up Display which put a few things against the windscreen, directly in front of the driver.
  - Tepix 9y ago
    Here's the law for Germany: StVZO: ( https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvzo_2012/__57.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvzo_2012/__57.html ) B. Fahrzeuge III. Bau- und Betriebsvorschriften §57 Geschwindigkeitsmeßgerät und Wegstreckenzähler (1) Kraftfahrzeuge müssen mit einem im unmittelbaren Sichtfeld des Fahrzeugführers liegenden Geschwindigkeitsmeßgerät ausgerüstet sein. Translated: "the speedometer has to be in the immediate field of vision of the driver". It's somewhat murky.

prostoalex 9y ago

Elon mentioned the interior was redesigned with full autonomy in mind. I guess the use case "driver maintaining the vehicle speed via non-autonomous pedal pressure while wanting to check the vehicle speed because he did not enable cruise mode" is a weird edge case for them. On autopilot the car will stick to the assigned speed (with adaptive cruise control slowing down or speeding up depending on the traffic in front of you). In fully autonomous driving mode the car will read the speed limit signs and adjust.

chc 9y ago
It's pretty bizarre to treat driving without an $8000 options package as a weird edge case. If autonomous driving is that central, it seems like it should be a basic feature, not an upgrade.
- prostoalex 9y ago
  The company likely has the data on the percentage of customers opting in for autonomous features and likely optimized for that. Considering the hardware in every vehicle supports autonomy, it's a feature that could be sold to the customer later on or as an on-demand subscription. If autonomous driving is out of the question, what makes Model 3 appealing compared to a Chevy Bolt, Chevy Volt or a plug-in Prius? edit: I believe that adaptive cruise control (automatic speed adjustment based on the obstacles in front) is included in basic config, autopilot would include that + lane steering + lane change assistance with blind spot monitoring.
  - ranit 9y ago
    > what makes Model 3 appealing compared to ... Everything that the reviewer wrote.
    - prostoalex 9y ago
      The reviewer went out of his way to emphasize the test drive is for a fully-loaded version. > Franz’ car is a loaded version—a Premium (add $5,000), meaning better-grade materials, wood-veneered dash, 12-way front seats, 12-speaker sound, heated rear seats, side-by-side inductive phone chargers, and that panoramic glass ceiling > paired with this car’s $9,000 long-range battery > Tesla Model 3 is available with Enhanced Autopilot ($5,000) and for another $3,000 what’s called “Full Self-Driving Capability” > $59,500 before incentives—including $1,500 for the larger 19-inch wheels (18 inches are standard), and a grand for the red multicoat paint > And it’ll be a while before $35,000 versions are built Their review of the $35,000 vehicle might be very different.

roesel 9y ago

Renault Espace (among others) has had this for quite a while and it works fairly well. I'd even say it keeps your peripheral vision on the road more than the traditional clocks (if done right).

agumonkey 9y ago
I'd love to test that. my tiny experience is that anything in the center will divert my view too much.
wibr 9y ago
I agree that it works well in the Espace, however my impression is that while in the Model 3 the display is in the center like in the Espace it's also closer to the driver, making the viewing angle larger...

laydn 9y ago

Center console indicators are quite common. One advantage is that, the indicators are never blocked when you are in a turn. With your traditional instrument cluster placement, the steering wheel blocks the indicators. Cars with instruments in the center dashboard: Mini Cooper: http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/2010-mini-cooper-hardtop-2-door-coupe-s-dashboard_100304478_l.jpg http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/2010-mini-cooper-hardtop-2-do... Toyota Yaris: https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/izmo/306771/2009_toyota_yaris_dashboard.jpg https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/izmo/306771/2009_... Saturn ION: http://consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/05130061990005.jpg http://consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/05130061... Citroen C4 Picasso: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fe/d6/5a/fed65a4f2364be22592dc89c495a4587--citroen-c-picasso-family-cars.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fe/d6/5a/fed65a4f2... etc...

oevi 9y ago
Or the Renault Twingo for an even more minimalistic approach: http://i.auto-bild.de/ir_img/1/1/3/2/4/4/5/Renault-Twingo-729x486-fd82dcda12d7adc6.jpg http://i.auto-bild.de/ir_img/1/1/3/2/4/4/5/Renault-Twingo-72...
- tbassetto 9y ago
  That's a Twingo from 10 years ago, right? Today it looks more like: http://indianautosblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/New-Renault-Twingo-dashboard-official-image.jpg http://indianautosblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/New-Re...
TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
The Yaris in particular must be easy to build as either a left hand drive or right hand drive vehicle. I'd hazard a guess that was a significant motivating factor for Toyota.
narrowtux 9y ago
I drive a Mini Cooper from time to time and it's not great. They have a small screen behind the wheel which also displays the speed, but with a low refresh rate so you can go over the limit easily if you don't pay attention.

Theodores 9y ago

I see it as 'Don't make me think!' (Steve Krug) applied to a fresh redesign of what is really needed and where. This is the Google home page compared to Alta Vista. The absence of dials, switches, knobs, hidden buttons, things you have to twist in their own special way, it is all good. Clearly there are some situations where the buttons have to exist, e.g. for seat adjustment, as you wouldn't want to be doing that whilst leaning for the screen. However, the minimal approach and a clear, easy to use console is way ahead of what other cars are doing for their interiors. Without the clutter of an existing car interior I am sure that big flashing lights on the centre console about exceeding the speed limit will be perfectly visible to all occupants of the car. This latter point is important, routinely my brother in law drives at speeds that are faster than what he tells my sister. She is sat next to him but can't see the speedometer, so if he says one speed then she has to believe him, even if it is just slightly fast rather than the true excessively fast figure. Having a centre console is a bit more fair to passengers wanting to know that information too. If it is the car rather than the driver that is driving I guess this is no different - everyone including the driver is a passenger.

am1988 9y ago
> The absence of dials, switches, knobs, hidden buttons, things you have to twist in their own special way, it is all good. In it's place are things you have to touch and slide without the tacticle feedback and consistency of controls. > This latter point is important, routinely my brother in law drives at speeds that are faster than what he tells my sister. She is sat next to him but can't see the speedometer, so if he says one speed then she has to believe him, even if it is just slightly fast rather than the true excessively fast figure. Having a centre console is a bit more fair to passengers wanting to know that information too SO this car is gonna be mentioned in divorce proceedings /s

dzhiurgis 9y ago

HUD on ebay is like $20, works off OBDII port.