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The Acceleration of Addictiveness (2010)
- smelterdemon 9y ago>You can probably take it as a rule of thumb from now on that if people don't think you're weird, you're living badly If only I had thought of this rebuttal in middle school...
- Bartweiss 9y agoA recent piece taking on the topic from a different framing: http://joyousandswift.org/hyperstimulus/ http://joyousandswift.org/hyperstimulus/ It doesn't deal in addiction but overwhelming stimuli, whether or not they're repeated. Animals can be fooled by unrealistically strong experiences - you can trick a goose into 'hatching' a volleyball - and it appears that humans have somewhat similar responses. The insights in the two articles aren't vastly different, but there's one intriguing thought: there are actual selection pressures against this. When animals are fooled by superstimuli they're things that are rare (brood parasitism) or nonexistent (volleyballs) - if the extreme stimulus was common they would refine their processing. Some human cases may be hard to avoid (e.g. dopamine receptors) but some might be simpler. It's starting to look like overriding these responses is a major skill for everyday human functioning.
- jcranberry 9y agoThere does seem to be selection with respect to functioning in modern society, but I'm not sure there's a strong correlation with expected functionality and expected number of children. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a negative correlation. In addition, because of how interconnected our society is a selection process individually would be enough. It would have to also be powerful enough to stop the memetic heritability of "superstimuli" memes.
- RyanMcGreal 9y agoI highly recommend Deirdre Barrett's book Supernormal Stimuli for a fascinating and detailed review of this phenomenon in its various manifestations in human societies.
- laaph 9y agoI disagree with the second sentence in this assertion in the article you linked: "Perhaps less dramatically, anyone who lives in an urban center probably has friends or acquaintances who have chosen not have children, simply because they prefer an epicurean lifestyle. This is not a phenomenon that occurs in the poorest countries in the world, but rather one that is unique to the wealthiest." Birth rates have been falling dramatically all over the world over the past 40 years, in rich and poor countries alike. It is true that the birth rate is still higher in poor countries than it is in rich countries. But even in poor countries, birth rates have dropped. You can go look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d... and find your favorite poor country and see the changes. North Korea is just less than replacement rate, 2.0 children/woman. Cuba is 1.6 children per woman, well under replacement rate. Haiti went from 5.8 children per woman in 1970 to 3.0 in 2013. That kind of drop has been experienced around the world, in rich countries as well as poor countries. Pakistan is another example I commonly cite, going from 6.6 children/woman in 1970 to 3.8 in 2013 However, almost every poor country has been getting richer, so it might be hard to untangle the effects.
- nyolfen 9y agolowered fertility is not the same as childlessness
- Bartweiss 9y agoI'm not clear on where the disagreement is here? I guess "unique to the wealthiest" is rather strong, but the claim made is pretty specific. The general explanation for falling fertility rates like '5 -> 3' is that it's mostly about falling infant mortality and improved birth control. People have more control over pregnancies and more confidence in the survival of their children, so they can achieve a small family with fewer births. That's a substantially different matter than being voluntarily childless. I admit I'm summoning up complexity here by claiming that 'N -> 2.1' has a different mechanism than '2.1 -> 1.46', and that there are some odd examples. North Korea I'd largely discount because famine warps birth rates, but Cuba is interesting. Presumably this is some of the same effects, but I'm not sure if there are very many people in Havana doing the "young and rich and childfree" thing with the same cultural markers. I'm actually not sure, I'd need someone more familiar with Cuban (or other) cultures to answer that.
- vanderZwan 9y ago> there are actual selection pressures against this. Selection pressure is a feedback system, and in order for it to function there must be enough time for the feedback to catch up. If it can't, we get extinction instead of adaptation. A great example against this are diseases: on the one hand, the more viral a disease is, the better it competes against other diseases. On the other, being too viral is bad for the health of the host, or even lethal, which is a selection pressure against it. However, if the disease can spread from host to host independent of their health, like diseases that spread through mosquitos or water, the selection pressure against lethal virality is gone, untill all possible hosts within range die. That is why safe drinking water has the unexpected side effect of making the diseases themselves less lethal[0]. And like safe drinking water, I do not think we should make this a responsibility of the individual. This is something to be solved at the societal level. [0] https://www.ted.com/talks/paul_ewald_asks_can_we_domesticate_germs https://www.ted.com/talks/paul_ewald_asks_can_we_domesticate...
- alexmat 9y agoHis point about hiking is spot on for me. And it's not just a means to get away from the internet, it's also great for removing all social noise and enabling a long stretch of contiguous thinking. Running also works well but it needs to be at least an hour or more before my brain switches into "thoughtful mode". Even though I make an effort, it's amazing to think how little time I actually spend alone with my thoughts compared to even a decade ago when this was written.
- jimhefferon 9y agoThis winter I got in the habit of running listening to books. It makes the run go by. But after a couple of months I realized that I had lost something, the meditative effects. I've ditched the bluetooth phones and I like it better.
- WalterBright 9y agoI don't listen to earphones while jogging because I'm afraid I'll get hit by a car. Now and then I have to jump off the road because of a car.
- jimhefferon 9y agoSome headphones let in much more sound than others. Also, I used earphones and only put in the left one.
- waterlink 9y agoI'm using the technique called "Productive Meditation" described in the "Deep Work" book. In its core, you choose to walk outside for one Pomodoro, while using focused meditation, where the focus is not on the breath (or any other part of the body), but rather on a specific question that you need to find an answer for. Also, I use the same technique when I'm commuting by the public transport from work to home and home to work. For the technique to work, it is important to be proficient with focused meditation. So one needs to train first to be able to consistently focus on something simpler than a question (breath, or feet, or your surroundings, or food you eat).
- danvoell 9y agoDoes PG have an iPhone yet?
- stenlix 9y agoSeems like as of 2015 he has one! source: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/575490964527034368 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/575490964527034368
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- alexmat 9y agoMy Dad was a smartphone holdout until last year. I deeply regret getting him one. He is now nose deep in it whenever I see him and much less interesting to be around since his conversations are now about what's popular online and not the original thoughts he once used to have. This has made me more reflective of my tech absorption and how hard it is to see until you see it happen to someone else.
- kuzimoto 9y agoYeah I used to be a huge Redditor trying to constantly keep up with the memes and funny content of the day. After quitting it made me realize how much a slave I was to the platform and how much I needed my hit of random funny crap. I used HN as a replacement for the industry news and to remove all the other extra junk. Which seems to be working since I only visit about once a day for 15-20 minutes and don't feel a compulsive need to check it constantly for fear of missing something since there's a lack of memes and in-jokes.
- criddell 9y agoI installed LeechBlock to limit me to 15 minutes of Reddit every day. At first, I was hitting it with my morning coffee. These days, I rarely use the entire 15 minute allotment (although I did today).
- reader5000 9y agoI thought I was weird in noticing "walking=less internet". Another thing is meditation, but it's no silver bullet. I was supposed to not be on the internet right now.
- euyyn 9y agoFor sugar, we've started the phase of awareness of its harmfulness, and no doubt our children or grandchildren will have social norms not to abuse it. But for the internet it's much more difficult: I don't think the habit of avoidance can be born without first general awareness of its danger. And the danger in all other substances Paul mentions is a physical one: you get terminally ill, or visibly unhealthy. But internet addiction is invisible; it masks itself as the person being just slower than their peers, or lazier. Moreover, not buying a pack of cigarettes is trivially easy for someone that's not addicted yet. As is not getting drunk every day. But distinguishing the addictive internet from the non-addictive is hard, and avoiding the former while still using the latter is even harder. What shape can a social habit of avoidance take here?
- DelightOne 9y agoA solution might be to identify what you need it for and build a process around it which pushes you to do what you are here for in the first place. You wouldnt start to bake a cake by buying meat, right? Theres currently no process in place for anything, but only lots of information and people trying to get you addicted to spend money and time(depending on you product or customer) on things you do not require.
- Super_Jambo 9y agoYup, the problem is our markets are wildly broken because of advertising. If you had to actually pay for the content you consume you wouldn't have any of this. But corporations are allowed to pay a third party to build honey pots in order to poison your mind against you. The worst part of it is that it makes finding actually useful information almost impossible because there is such huge incentives to make superficially attractive information that's actually dross. And people wonder why the foolish poor took on too much housing debt or why you had Trump running against Clinton. "This world in arms in not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." But I'm sure sucking all our brightest minds into Google and Wall Street we'll innovate our way past global warming no bother.
- hammock 9y ago>As far as I know there's no word for something we like too much. The closest is the colloquial sense of "addictive." Vice? Enchantress or siren? To be put under a spell?
- amelius 9y agoI'm hoping one day we'll figure out how addiction works in the brain, and we'll develop a pill against the negative effects.
- choxi 9y agoThere's a Radiolab podcast about a pill that supposedly cures alcohol addiction: http://www.radiolab.org/story/addiction/ http://www.radiolab.org/story/addiction/ The pill they mention is called "Baclofen", and the podcast goes into how effective it is and why, if it's so good, it isn't used broadly yet.
- overcast 9y agoLooks like Baclofen is a muscle relaxant. That would explain why it's not broadly used.
- choxi 9y agoCould you elaborate?
- H4CK3RM4N 9y agoI'm pretty sure muscle relaxant is synonymous with laxative.
- overcast 9y agoThis goes for basically all muscle relaxants. Don't plan on being very productive. What should I avoid while taking baclofen? Do not use baclofen at a time when you need muscle tone for safe balance and movement during certain activities. In some situations, it may be dangerous for you to have reduced muscle tone. Drinking alcohol with this medicine can cause side effects. This medication may impair your thinking or reactions. Be careful if you drive or do anything that requires you to be alert.
- wcummings 9y ago>What hard liquor, cigarettes, heroin, and crack have in common is that they're all more concentrated forms of less addictive predecessors Interesting that he left out marijuana concentrates, the most recent example (in terms of widespread availability).
- c3534l 9y agoWell, they don't have anything different in them than regular marijuana and marijuana is the sort of thing that becomes unpleasant when you have too much. And you can already smoke too much pot without concentrates. I suppose the concentrated forms can make the onset more sudden, but it's hardly notably that he didn't mention it.
- wcummings 9y agoEverything you said is also true of tobacco, or alcohol.
- devrandomguy 9y agoOn that note, coffee, sugar and energy drinks should also be included. UV light is also somewhat addictive. Carrots are not addictive though. I won't do anything for a carrot, no matter how many I've eaten in the past.
- thebigspacefuck 9y agoThis article was written in 2010
- krrishd 9y agoGiven that a significant chunk of design/product nowadays is centered around 'engagement', the inevitability of this can't be understated. Imagine if our medication, food, etc were designed around engagement. We already have a term for that, and it's addiction. I don't understand why we guard our physical intake from 'addiction', but don't show anywhere as much concern re: our cognitive intake despite our mind not mattering any less than our body. I know the practical solution here is being a more conscientious user, but I feel like there's ethical culpability on our profession.
- crawfordcomeaux 9y agoThere's more than enough responsibility to go around. If we want industries to create things that counteract the problem, they'll need new processes to replace the old ones with. I believe the first step is the development of new design theories.
- gnicholas 9y ago> I believe the first step is the development of new design theories. I tend to agree, at least in the abstract. But what would this look like, and how would it successfully supplant the old design theories?
- crawfordcomeaux 9y agoI think bringing neuroscience and mindfulness into the mix is the way to go. How it'll supplant is simple: tack it on to human-centric design, get companies applying HCD already to adopt it, and they can show the addiction-addicted companies how to make money in a more sustainable way. Sell it to the capitalists by showing people can live longer if their well-being is higher.
- dharma1 9y agoI don't see this taking off for companies whose bottom line is directly tied into advertising (Facebook, Google etc). Apple could lead here and build some tools directly into the OS that let people easily set some custom boundaries around addictive use.
- c3534l 9y ago> As far as I know there's no word for something we like too much. Supernormal stimulus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernormal_stimulus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernormal_stimulus
- stillhere 9y agoPorn and videogames.
- magic_beans 9y agoSince these disproportionally affect males, what is the female vice of this age?
- dhbradshaw 9y agoSocial media Romance books
- morgtheborg 9y agoEh romance books are hardly new or uniquely overwhelming now. Social media, yes.
- Karawebnetwork 9y agoSocial gamification.
- duderific 9y agoTexting.
- Winterflow3r 9y agoCan only speak for myself, but instagram & various lifestyle youtube videos
- mgalka 9y agoA lot of people roll their eyes at the idea of addictions to something other than drugs -- gambling, sex, video games, etc. Having done some in-depth research on gambling addiction, I am firmly convinced it is every bit as addictive and problematic as drugs -- affects the same people, by the same physiology, and leads to all the same destructive behaviors. If we don't turn around our concept of addiction to something that extends beyond chemicals, we're in for some major societal problems very soon.
- crawfordcomeaux 9y agoI'm a recovering information addict & I'm intimately familiar with the effects of these processes. PG refers here to internet addiction, which is similar to info addiction because the former's a subset of the latter. As it was with cigarettes, all of society is responsible at all levels for its own diseases. Individuals are responsible for learning about addiction-related/-promoting processes in order to make informed decisions about what systems they choose to interact with. Companies are responsible for learning how to design systems that are anti-addictive & still sustainable. Governments are responsible for passing legislation to promote "antibodies." And all are responsible for developing compassionate paths for recovery. It starts with listening to addicts in order to help them identify their needs/wants & help them learn how to meet them in sustainable ways.
- anythingnonidin 9y agoFrom a survey on drugs/addictive things, relevant to this thread: http://i.imgur.com/uJ3vyxs.png http://i.imgur.com/uJ3vyxs.png "How much worse would your life be if [various drugs] ceased to exist?" (Youtube, TV, internet, smartphones, porn, sugar) Key: http://i.imgur.com/c0LDy8b.png http://i.imgur.com/c0LDy8b.png Full results: http://imgur.com/a/ElbJh http://imgur.com/a/ElbJh
- ghostbrainalpha 9y agoTowards the end he says that he fights the addictiveness of the internet by not having an iPhone. But it looks like now, its time to update this article with a different strategy. (https://twitter.com/paulg/status/575490964527034368 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/575490964527034368)
- rdiddly 9y agoSomebody once told me a certain definition of addiction - they attributed it to Nietzsche I think, but I'm not sure whether to believe that. Anyway it was this: An addiction is something that promises to cure that of which it is the cause. This compact definition covers surprisingly many addictions. Pick one, I dunno... heroin. Promises to eliminate all the pain, while bringing tons of pain into your life. Even things like gambling - promises excitement & riches, makes you poor and predictable. Or even, things like religion - the thing it causes/cures is "awareness of being a weak sinner." Or even, social media - the thing it causes/cures is disconnection. EDIT: This popped up on HN just now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14851057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14851057
- prodmerc 9y agoI've wanted something to completely, uncompromisingly block all Internet and software time wasters for a long time. I.e. quit cold turkey, once and for all. Short of an UEFI-implemented solution (which itself would create problems like total control over your hardware), there's nothing out there that can't be bypassed. And no company is going to do that when the Internet addictions are bringing in billions. Best way is to treat it at the core, of course, but that's not going to happen, either.
- HAL9OOO 9y agoThis related comic is pretty good: http://www.sparringmind.com/supernormal-stimuli/ http://www.sparringmind.com/supernormal-stimuli/
- GuB-42 9y agoWhen it comes to illegal drugs, one reason modern drugs are more addictive than before is that they are simply stronger. Heroin is 3 times stronger than morphine, which is 10 times stronger than opium. Fentanyl goes through the roof. They are all addictive, and they all have similar effects, but at different doses. Having a more potent substance has many benefits : smaller quantities are easier to transport or hide and are often cheaper to produce per dose.
- minademian 9y agoi think the points raised, that addiction is normalized and that society decides what is an "addiction" or not, is novel and fresh.