12 ms·

> Honestly, if you're at the point where you're circumventing region locking to access Netflix, you should just pirate it. You're violating copyright either way

> Honestly, if you're at the point where you're circumventing region locking to access Netflix, you should just pirate it. You're violating copyright either way. Many people think it's an ethical requirement to pay artists for their work. So even if they're okay (arguably) violating the law, they might not be okay with just taking the art without paying at all.

psadauskas 9y ago
Then keep paying Netflix to stay in the lighter gray side of morality, and still torrent the shows of theirs you want to watch but can't.
- problems 9y ago
  Does Netflix pay out if you don't watch the content? It also may make it more likely that Netflix will drop the content if it's not getting good enough numbers.
  - e40 9y ago
    I often wondered this. I don't believe it does. My guess is that royalties are paid on a per-use basis. Anyone know?
    - bpodgursky 9y ago
      I really doubt there is any per-view payout. There would be no point in their constant content churn if they were able (or wanted to) negotiate per-view contracts.
      - Fizzer 9y ago
        The view numbers surely get used during contract negotiations, though. When a movie's contract runs out and Netflix needs to figure out how much they're willing to bid to renew it, they'll look at the view numbers as one factor in determining how much they're willing to bid. So even if there isn't a per-view payout, I'm sure the view numbers do contribute to the studio getting more money.
    - jdmichal 9y ago
      My complete guess: Netflix mass-negotiates content contracts with distributors for lump sums. The distributor then pays out one-time royalties from that lump sum.
      - logfromblammo 9y ago
        My guess is similar, except that the distributor never actually pays out royalties; instead using Hollywood-accounting to funnel the extra money away into the contract for some captive film-rights service company owned by contacts and cronies.
  - aaron695 9y ago
    You'd have to imagine Netflix does more than viewing numbers since it's not ads that makes them money but subscribers to the overall service. If a show is getting press and social media talk then they probably value that higher since new subscribers is of very high value. Retention is a different problem and not as particular to one show.
- kuschku 9y ago
  That’s exactly what I do. I pay for Netflix and Amazon Prime, and still pirate all the content. I’m on Linux, and they only provide 144p video for me, so pirating is easier for getting access to content I paid for.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
rdiddly 9y ago
Kinda funny how a VPN - a perfectly sensible defensive/precautionary strategy for any purpose - automatically equals something nefarious to these schmoes. I use a VPN all the time, including for the most benign activities... I just leave it on all the time. So it's always weird and I never quite seem to get used to it, when some site like Netflix (not that I use Netflix) singles my IP address out. It always takes me a minute to realize, "Oh they think I'm like sup3r 31337 haxxx0r5 because of the VPN." So to protect their security and prove how trustworthy I am, I have to let down my security. Where's the give & take? It's just weird.
- overcast 9y ago
  Because more often then not, VPN is used to circumvent something they shouldn't be accessing. Just like torrents are essentially used to download pirated software. I bet you side with pirates, because they are only trying to "test" the software first.
  - rdiddly 9y ago
    Citation needed. You're obviously part of the cohort that wants to jump to faulty conclusions about it. And I "side" with me.
    - rocqua 9y ago
      If netflix found that the majority of VPN connections were to avoid region locking, would you agree that blocking VPNs to enforce region locking makes sense? Because to me, it makes sense.
  - __jal 9y ago
    > more often then not, VPN is used to circumvent something they shouldn't be accessing Who knew Cisco was selling enterprise-grade circumvention devices to the world's corporations? Somebody better notify the MPAA! More seriously, this type of thinking is pernicious. It demands "consumers" simply "consume" is easy-to-control ways, stay in their lanes and not be suspicious. There would be no internet if people did that. Don't get me wrong; if people want to be sheep, they can be. I will happily encrypt, tunnel, send weird packets and otherwise play on the net the way it was intended, and anyone with a problem with that can chose not to do business with me if they prefer more tractable clientele who will shut up and eat what they're fed.
amelius 9y ago
> Many people think it's an ethical requirement to pay artists for their work. I don't think that way. Everybody deserves a reasonable income, but what these "artists" make is totally insane. The only reason I watch their movies is because with the help of their fans, they have created an artificial monopoly around their persona and I am basically forced to watch them. In a free market with intelligent consumers, these people would not make this much.
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  I have seen enough MST3K to know that an actor that is skilled at the craft is worth quite a bit more than I had previously suspected. You really don't know what you've got 'til it's gone. In a free market with intelligent consumers, these people would not make quite so much, but it would still be a significant amount. People that can uphold a willing suspension of disbelief are rare enough, but those who can invoke it are the ones truly deserving of that reasonable income. Those folks aren't always the actors. Sometimes it's the writers, directors, or even the make-up or foley artists. Those people that don't get face time in front of the public might not always get the recognition they deserve, and they're the ones we really want to be paid for their art. But there are a lot of people shaving money off the wad before it gets to them, so putting too much cash in their hands is a small price to pay so that those who deserve it can actually make a living.
- matt4077 9y ago
  They haven't "created an artificial monopoly around their persona". You've just created an artificial justification around your actions. You're also not "basically forced to watch them". HBO operates with a margin of 33% (1.7Billion income on 4.9 Billion of revenue). That's healthy, but it isn't "totally insane". There isn't much room to spare before they'd have to sacrifice quality. That'd be quite sad, considering the last decade is generally regarded as a golden age of TV.
  - amelius 9y ago
    > You're also not "basically forced to watch them". What other method do you suggest for me to stay up to date on pop culture, considering I do not want to support it?
rhino369 9y ago
By VPNing into content, you aren't really paying artists. You pay Netflix, but Netflix doesn't license the content. So really you are just paying Netflix for stuff you are effectively pirating. Skip the middle man. It's like buying stolen art.
- FireBeyond 9y ago
  You still have to pay for an account. Which is used to pay licensing fees. The difference is "This dollar came from a user in the US", versus "This dollar came from a user in Eastern Europe (or wherever Netflix isn't available)". Netflix is still licensing the content, just not for your (real) jurisdiction. To imply that it's better, then, to just outright pirate the content is... confusing.
tomc1985 9y ago
As if the system for compensating artists was in any way equitable for them. We're better off with piracy, at least noone is pretending to support them... right now the economics are just downright predatory.

psadauskas 9y ago

Then keep paying Netflix to stay in the lighter gray side of morality, and still torrent the shows of theirs you want to watch but can't.

problems 9y ago
Does Netflix pay out if you don't watch the content? It also may make it more likely that Netflix will drop the content if it's not getting good enough numbers.
- e40 9y ago
  I often wondered this. I don't believe it does. My guess is that royalties are paid on a per-use basis. Anyone know?
  - bpodgursky 9y ago
    I really doubt there is any per-view payout. There would be no point in their constant content churn if they were able (or wanted to) negotiate per-view contracts.
    - Fizzer 9y ago
      The view numbers surely get used during contract negotiations, though. When a movie's contract runs out and Netflix needs to figure out how much they're willing to bid to renew it, they'll look at the view numbers as one factor in determining how much they're willing to bid. So even if there isn't a per-view payout, I'm sure the view numbers do contribute to the studio getting more money.
  - jdmichal 9y ago
    My complete guess: Netflix mass-negotiates content contracts with distributors for lump sums. The distributor then pays out one-time royalties from that lump sum.
    - logfromblammo 9y ago
      My guess is similar, except that the distributor never actually pays out royalties; instead using Hollywood-accounting to funnel the extra money away into the contract for some captive film-rights service company owned by contacts and cronies.
- aaron695 9y ago
  You'd have to imagine Netflix does more than viewing numbers since it's not ads that makes them money but subscribers to the overall service. If a show is getting press and social media talk then they probably value that higher since new subscribers is of very high value. Retention is a different problem and not as particular to one show.
kuschku 9y ago
That’s exactly what I do. I pay for Netflix and Amazon Prime, and still pirate all the content. I’m on Linux, and they only provide 144p video for me, so pirating is easier for getting access to content I paid for.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

rdiddly 9y ago

Kinda funny how a VPN - a perfectly sensible defensive/precautionary strategy for any purpose - automatically equals something nefarious to these schmoes. I use a VPN all the time, including for the most benign activities... I just leave it on all the time. So it's always weird and I never quite seem to get used to it, when some site like Netflix (not that I use Netflix) singles my IP address out. It always takes me a minute to realize, "Oh they think I'm like sup3r 31337 haxxx0r5 because of the VPN." So to protect their security and prove how trustworthy I am, I have to let down my security. Where's the give & take? It's just weird.

overcast 9y ago
Because more often then not, VPN is used to circumvent something they shouldn't be accessing. Just like torrents are essentially used to download pirated software. I bet you side with pirates, because they are only trying to "test" the software first.
- rdiddly 9y ago
  Citation needed. You're obviously part of the cohort that wants to jump to faulty conclusions about it. And I "side" with me.
  - rocqua 9y ago
    If netflix found that the majority of VPN connections were to avoid region locking, would you agree that blocking VPNs to enforce region locking makes sense? Because to me, it makes sense.
- __jal 9y ago
  > more often then not, VPN is used to circumvent something they shouldn't be accessing Who knew Cisco was selling enterprise-grade circumvention devices to the world's corporations? Somebody better notify the MPAA! More seriously, this type of thinking is pernicious. It demands "consumers" simply "consume" is easy-to-control ways, stay in their lanes and not be suspicious. There would be no internet if people did that. Don't get me wrong; if people want to be sheep, they can be. I will happily encrypt, tunnel, send weird packets and otherwise play on the net the way it was intended, and anyone with a problem with that can chose not to do business with me if they prefer more tractable clientele who will shut up and eat what they're fed.

amelius 9y ago

> Many people think it's an ethical requirement to pay artists for their work. I don't think that way. Everybody deserves a reasonable income, but what these "artists" make is totally insane. The only reason I watch their movies is because with the help of their fans, they have created an artificial monopoly around their persona and I am basically forced to watch them. In a free market with intelligent consumers, these people would not make this much.

logfromblammo 9y ago
I have seen enough MST3K to know that an actor that is skilled at the craft is worth quite a bit more than I had previously suspected. You really don't know what you've got 'til it's gone. In a free market with intelligent consumers, these people would not make quite so much, but it would still be a significant amount. People that can uphold a willing suspension of disbelief are rare enough, but those who can invoke it are the ones truly deserving of that reasonable income. Those folks aren't always the actors. Sometimes it's the writers, directors, or even the make-up or foley artists. Those people that don't get face time in front of the public might not always get the recognition they deserve, and they're the ones we really want to be paid for their art. But there are a lot of people shaving money off the wad before it gets to them, so putting too much cash in their hands is a small price to pay so that those who deserve it can actually make a living.
matt4077 9y ago
They haven't "created an artificial monopoly around their persona". You've just created an artificial justification around your actions. You're also not "basically forced to watch them". HBO operates with a margin of 33% (1.7Billion income on 4.9 Billion of revenue). That's healthy, but it isn't "totally insane". There isn't much room to spare before they'd have to sacrifice quality. That'd be quite sad, considering the last decade is generally regarded as a golden age of TV.
- amelius 9y ago
  > You're also not "basically forced to watch them". What other method do you suggest for me to stay up to date on pop culture, considering I do not want to support it?

rhino369 9y ago

By VPNing into content, you aren't really paying artists. You pay Netflix, but Netflix doesn't license the content. So really you are just paying Netflix for stuff you are effectively pirating. Skip the middle man. It's like buying stolen art.

FireBeyond 9y ago
You still have to pay for an account. Which is used to pay licensing fees. The difference is "This dollar came from a user in the US", versus "This dollar came from a user in Eastern Europe (or wherever Netflix isn't available)". Netflix is still licensing the content, just not for your (real) jurisdiction. To imply that it's better, then, to just outright pirate the content is... confusing.

tomc1985 9y ago

As if the system for compensating artists was in any way equitable for them. We're better off with piracy, at least noone is pretending to support them... right now the economics are just downright predatory.