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What I believe he's saying is this (charlesdm correct me if I'm wrong): - Management values Alice 100 (by values I mean - we're willing to pay at most that muc
by fpig 9y ago
What I believe he's saying is this (charlesdm correct me if I'm wrong):
- Management values Alice 100 (by values I mean - we're willing to pay at most that much to keep her)
- Management values Bob, Fob and Gob 50 each
- Bob, Fob and Gob realize Alice is more valuable, but they don't think she is 2x more valuable
If you've worked in development you likely know that difference in value of developers can be massive, but the ones with less value usually don't perceive themselves as being THAT much less valuable and would have a problem with someone they consider a peer being paid 2x their salary, that's just how things are.
If they all negotiate separately in secret, Alice can get her 100. But if salaries are public, management knows Bob, Fob and Gob will be resentful if Alice gets 100. So a new effect is introduced: the cost of giving Alice 100 is no longer simply 100, it is 100 + the cost of making Bob, Fob and Gob unsatisfied, introducing drama and perhaps them not being willing to work for 50.
So what might happen is:
- They will pay Alice 85
- They will pay Bob, Fob and Gob 55
At first glance this might seem like it doesn't make sense, and that it would be economically irrational for the employer to pay Bob, Fob and Gob more than their perceived value. But this additional 3*5 is actually the price of giving Alice more money to keep her without causing drama. Alice is still effectively costing the employer 100, it just doesn't all go to her. Alice should be rationally paid at most the amount 100-3x at which the satisfaction of the other 3 employees with their pay being 50+x instead of 50 balances out their dissatisfaction with Alice being paid more at 100-3x. Alice is basically causing the cost of other employees to grow and has to pay for this. As long as the company is paying Alice 85, the cost of a 50-employee is raised to 55, making Alice effectively cost 100 with 3 other employees.
In reality, 85 might be 90 and 55 might be 60 because the additional information the employees now have gives them a stronger overall negotiating position, so the average salary level would likely go up. But I believe Alice would still end up "subsidizing" Bob, Fob and Gob. It would be dishonest to claim that the effect I wrote in italics does not exist.
I believe the effect of public salaries, all else equal, would be to move the average a bit up, but also greatly lower the variance.
And just so that this isn't purely hypothetical: at my first job, they refused to pay me more than a certain amount because some employees who had been there much longer were being paid that amount. I was literally told this, and my boss even acted like I was somehow being a dick for not agreeing to that number and quitting over this. They had no problems giving me that number but let me quit rather than go over that number. So in reality, an even worse case happens than the one described above, because they either didn't consider the option of giving me less than I was worth and distributing the difference or they thought they couldn't afford me long-term anyway, and if they did what I described above they would just end up stuck with those raises they gave to others (these people were "lifers") after I eventually left.
So in effect, to have any chance of being paid more in line with what I was worth, I had to quit and move to a different company, even though the first company did realize my value, it is just that because of the effect I described, the cost of paying me what I was worth would have been much higher than just the amount of my salary. They acted rationally in insisting on underpaying me.
This issue doesn't exist with secret salaries.
- charlesdm 9y agoSpot on.
- matwood 9y ago> If you've worked in development you likely know that difference in value of developers can be massive, but the ones with less value usually don't perceive themselves as being THAT much less valuable and would have a problem with someone they consider a peer being paid 2x their salary, that's just how things are. This is a great comment. Pro sports is an example where knowing salaries is fine because there are a lot of objective measures of talent. People generally know where they fall in the order.
- lordnacho 9y ago> Pro sports is an example where knowing salaries is fine because there are a lot of objective measures of talent. I would argue that although recent advances have made this possible, it is generally not the dominant mechanism. Simply I think even with the hard data showing exactly what each team member did, it is still a long leap to valuation. Contribution is still hard to identify in any team sport, even if you know what everyone actually did. When it does come to valuation, there's a major problem. New entrants have some data to support their value, but they have not been tried in the same pool as veterans. This will most likely lead to the new entrants coming at a discount, as managers will be risk-averse. Or call it model-conservative, since they objectively don't have the data.
- matwood 9y agoGood points. I guess I was thinking along the lines of a Kerr and Jordan. In no world would Kerr argue that Jordan should not have been paid more than he does. Jordan is clearly the player who carries the team. But, I could see it become more challenging at the mid-level or when on teams with a 1a, 1b type of dynamic.
- 21 9y agoSo I moved to a development hub, coming from a low paying country, and because of that I received a 0.5 X salary, where X is what I believe my value to be. Naturally, I was highly unsatisfied, so I started looking around. Eventually I passed a couple of interviews and requested 0.7 X, hoping to gradually get to my true valuation. But in a big surprise, a very well known company actually gave me 1.0 X, even if I only requested 0.7 X, them saying that they have this internal system where they try to match salaries based on their perceived value, and not on you negotiating position. Let us not forget that most developers are very bad at negotiating salaries. Secret salaries are highly asymmetric, because they are only secret to one party. So as all asymmetric information, it will be exploited for benefit.