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Trump Administration to Slash Green Cards by 50%, Affecting H1-B/EB
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- hourislate 9y agoThank goodness. The Indian H1B folks have over run DFW. I was just told today that one of the H1B folks is going full time and the company is doing the paper work to make it happen (Green Card). It's a shame because they could have certainly hired a local person or a kid out of school but I suppose they can pay this person a pittance in comparison. H1B program needs to to be done away with. It is being gamed and no longer serves its real purpose.
- marcell 9y agoSource? I knew a lot of Googlers who were on H1B visa. Not all were Indian. Anecdotally, I know other large companies (FB, etc.) use it as well.
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- kodfodrasz 9y agoLarge companies do this, so it must be good for the country!
- arcticbull 9y agoIt's clear you've never been on the employer side of an H1 petition let alone a green card, or spoken to an immigrant before. H1s cost $6000+ and are available 4 days out of the year in April, and even then you have a 33% chance of getting one. And should you get one you can't start until the new USCIS fiscal year in October. What about that makes you think they'd rather hire a foreigner? The green card burden is years and many more thousands of dollars. Those people are probably just really good. Also, your statement about H1s getting paid way less isn't usually true, they're required to be paid the prevailing wage for the job they're doing in their geographical area. Now if you're talking about body shops, well that's a totally different conversation and needs to end but if those people were sponsored directly by your employer there's some good reasons. And if your employer is using a body shop you should be mad at them not USCIS -- for this, there's plenty of other reasons to be mad at USCIS haha.
- masondixon 9y agoIndia and China have over 1bn people. Their countries are inferior to he US in so many ways. Of course they want to come here, and if there was no cap on the number, they would drive the wages down to rock bottom. They will always be cheaper than US labor. And there are other advantages like employer loyalty because they cannot easily change job, which means employers can push them very hard and they won't quit - because its complicated to shift to another employer and they have to restart their green card. I think behind all this is the feeling that the best opportunities are given to foreigners who then rise up the ranks, opportunities which could have been given to Americans. Regarding immigration in general, the left continuously argues to keep low-paid foreign workers here to the benefit of large corporates. The justifications of "all of Silicon Valley companies support foreign immigration" makes perfect sense for these companies, but not for the nation. Silicon Valley is a bubble.
- shortsightedsid 9y agoNot like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
- kc10 9y ago>I suppose they can pay this person a pittance in comparison. Totally false understanding of the H1B visa program. H1B employees are not cheap labor, in fact full-time H1B employees are paid on-par or more than American citizens. Employers are required, by law, to file the prevailing wages during labor certification before filing H1B visa. Employers hire full-time H1B visa holders for only one reason: they simply can't find the people. And the business would suffer if they wait to only hire citizens or green card holders. So they spend exorbitant amount of money for visa and attorney fees and wait for through the whole H1B transfer process. It's not because H1Bs are cheap!
- lgleason 9y agohttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-h-1b_us_5890d86ce4b0522c7d3d84af http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-h-1b_us_5890d86ce4...
- kc10 9y agotrue to certain extent..Indians and Chinese national are discriminated in the allotment of green cards due to country quota limits. The result is green card queues are backlogged for years tied to sponsoring employer. Some employees don't want to go through this whole process switching a job, leading to few employers taking "unfair advantage" of these employees. They are not offered fair wage hikes or promotions as the employer knows they are stuck in the green card queue for years. But the thing is nothing is stopping these employees from making a move to a high paying job. They are just lethargic and don't want to take a risk. Employees should not sacrifice their career goals for immigration issues. How I do know? Been there, seen that, did that. I am still waiting for my green card for the last 6 years and I expect to wait for at least another 6-8 years. https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/392 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/392 can change this. This bill has bi-partisan support and I hope it will be put for a vote.
- walshemj 9y agoThat's the theory but in reality its gamed by employers and body shops additionally like racism if people perceive it discriminates against native born citizens then it is.
- mritun 9y ago> but I suppose they can pay this person a pittance in comparison. While I respect your opinions on H1B program because you are entitled to have one, you have evidently no idea how much an H1B is paid if you think its a "pittance" (or have a different definition of "pittance"). E.g. See http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Facebook+Inc&job=&city=SEATTLE&year=2016 http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Facebook+Inc&job=&city=SEAT... BTW, the salaries mentioned are just base (i.e. cash component). You can safely multiply the amount by 2 to arrive at yearly gross salary after stock grants and misc bonuses (e.g. joining bonus).
- raverbashing 9y agoCompare to http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Tata+Consultancy+Services+Limited&job=&city=SEATTLE&year=2016 http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Tata+Consultancy+Services+L...
- kc10 9y agofull-time h1b employees != h1b consultants
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- eksemplar 9y agoI wonder why these changes are so welcomed by low-middle skill labour. Do they simply not see the big picture of what brain drain does to the total sum of opportunities?
- ccvannorman 9y agoExactly
- worldsayshi 9y agoIt seems there's no consensus on the big picture in the general population. It's a very divided country.
- eksemplar 9y agoI'm not American, or from the third world. I'm Scandinavian and even I have seen talent drain to scilicon valley where they've created thousands of jobs that could potentially have been made here.
- prodmerc 9y agoYou should be happy about any US anti-immigrant policies. It'll stop some brain drain from everywhere else :)
- anotherbrownguy 9y agoNon-American businesses and corporations which depend on intelligent manpower should be more worried because of the proposed changes, not less. The entire point of immigration reform is to make it merit-based i.e. the most promising candidates would be prioritized.
- jbhatab 9y agoare you actually serious? the lower middle class support Trump because of his job focused agenda. the man says the word job more than anything. to correlate everything a president does with support of his general fan base is ridiculous. that's like saying democrats support murdering people with drones because Obama used that often. This type of logic is very divisive and dangerous.
- godzillabrennus 9y agoThis will send shockwaves through corporate America. I was at a Capitol One office last summer talking to their engineers. It was over 90% H1-B visa holders. Either they have to open foreign offices in other countries for talent or hire American citizens. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
- posguy 9y agoWhy isn't Capital One hiring American Citizens? If any company should be required to do so, payments related companies should be required to hire citizens.
- canttestthis 9y agoWhat makes payments related companies so special?
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- mc32 9y agoWe need to take a page out of the old Russian system. Get the younger generation prepared for a STEM field to excel. The USSR did a lot of things in hamfisted ways, but one thing they did right was strengthening their STEM education and cranking out very good scientists and mathematicians. We can do that too, if we put the effort into it. Instead we crank out liberal arts kids and other low value add degrees --I mean, nice to have well rounded education, but don't add to the economy as much as they could in other fields. China isn't getting to where they are by having a bunch of kids graduating with humanities degrees, that's for sure.
- jurassic 9y agoI'm the only person on my team with American citizenship, but my teammates are all so talented. And nice. It makes me sad to think about the stress and insecurity these changes could cause them.
- deegles 9y agoCall your representative and let them know!
- 43224gg252 9y agoAnd they're not nearly as progressive as they want the world to believe. Germany only recently recognized gay marriage a month ago (and they may not have, had America not paved the way).
- calvinbhai 9y agoI wonder if current immigration rules don't cause any stress to your team members. Just because they don't talk about it, doesn't mean they are not stressing about it. If any of them are from India/China and they understand what's really happening with the immigration policies in the US, they'll probably love these upcoming changes (related to merit based immigration)
- tempForaReply13 9y agooh man... I'm sitting here wondering if I'm even going to have a job next week because of these kinds of changes. It's been like this all year. I've been looking for a job in my country for months, and have only had one interview. If I was a stress drinker, I'd be going through a couple bottles of wine a day at this point.
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- letitgo12345 9y agoMisleading title. Bill has nothing (so far has been reported) on H1-Bs and if anything, EB based GCs seem to be getting a boost. What's been cut in the proposed bill is family based immigration. And anyway, this is very very very far from becoming law.
- benevol 9y agoI had acquired a green card a few years ago, then it got revoked b/c I hadn't settled quickly enough in the US; I'm sure my subconscious was somehow at play at that time. Today, I certainly wouldn't make any effort to acquire a green card again. Of course this is anecdotal. But what's not anecdotal is the fact that this country has been going south for quite some time now (even if living in the US, you may not realize it), which is why this destructive movement will prove hard to stop.
- rb666 9y agoJust move to Europe, you'll be happier for it.
- mrkrabo 9y agoUnless you don't want the government to take half your salary, of course.
- olegkikin 9y agoEU programmer salaries are way too low. In the US a senior web dev can make $200-300K. Good luck finding anything even close to that in the EU. Maybe if you're extraordinary, but then you can make a lot more in the US.
- prodmerc 9y agoLiving costs are proportionately lower as well, even within the US (and many have chimed in saying most US devs don't make anywhere near SV salaries).
- olegkikin 9y ago> Living costs are proportionately lower as well You have to be more specific. EU has a huge range in cost of living. Switzerland/Norway are very expensive. Poland/Romania are cheap. Plus, as an American, you will get double-taxed in some of the countries that don't have an agreement with the US. Having living in both the US and the EU, USA is still cheaper, as in, you end up with a lot more money after all your expenses, even if you account the health insurance costs (which the difference with the EU taxes alone will offset).
- KevinEldon 9y agoThis article is an interpretation of original reporting done by Politico [1]. From the original article. "legislation would also mark a broader shift away from the current immigration system, which favors those with family currently in the U.S., toward a merit-based approach." "Those admitted to the U.S. on the basis of merit have accounted for less than 10 percent of all legal immigrants over the past 15 years" "Trump praised the virtues of the merit-based models of Canada and Australia" 1: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/12/trump-legal-immigration-cuts-240478 http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/12/trump-legal-immigra...
- fazkan 9y agoand then the rise of the remote empires began. I am sure most companies will find a way to hire talent remotely. The positive side of this act would be that huge companies will start to think about hiring people remotely. Which would mean improved practices in managing remote talent. and frankly I think its overdue, the tools are the technology is there, why the do you need borders to impede your company's progress.
- hiram112 9y agoWe've been hearing this warning forever. The truth is, if the remote teams in low cost places like India and China worked so well, they would have long ago offshored everything. Cause let's be honest, most companies can't even deal with remote working once or twice a week from their own employees in the same city.
- tempForaReply13 9y agoI work with a team in India. I work in the midwest. The time difference is awful. I'm up until 3am, regularly, and occasionally have to work from 11pm-3am, then get up again for an 8am call. There's a reason that this isn't that common. It _sucks_.
- fazkan 9y agoWell, I think, the difference now is that the technology is mature enough to enable distributed work. I work at Mentor Graphics, and altough its embedded software most of my managers work from EU/US timezone and they all work from home. I don't know how people used to manage their issues before jira/github but it certainly has helped remote work. Plus the internet as a whole is penetrating developing countries so the issues of no internet and lag is not there anymore. I can't back this up with data but, I have personally seen a rise in the remote first companies. the first name that comes to mind is Linaro, plus I think red hat also supports remote hires. All the dev ops jobs that I see are remote. So yes the change is a difficult one and it needs a particular mindset on the managers side as well. But I think the threshold to become a remote company is a lot lower now...
- whack 9y agoTo be honest, the current system is so dysfunctional that this may even be an improvement. It is shocking to me that only 10% of our immigrants have gotten here though merit. There was an article on nytimes recently about the Canadian immigration system, how successful and popular it's been, and how this is largely the result of a system that heavily priorities immigrants who are highly skilled and can contribute the most to the economy. I distrust Trump just as much as any other liberal, but even a broken clock can sometimes be right. Any moves we make towards a Canadian model of immigration, would be a great improvement over the status quo. https://nyti.ms/2ugNBLH https://nyti.ms/2ugNBLH "Those admitted to the U.S. on the basis of merit have accounted for less than 10 percent of all legal immigrants over the past 15 years" "The legislation would, for example, increase the number of green cards — which allow for permanent residency in the U.S. — that are granted on the basis of merit to foreigners in a series of categories including outstanding professors and researchers, those holding advanced degrees, and those with extraordinary ability in a particular field."
- vertex-four 9y agoIf only 10% of your immigrants are there on merit... maybe your legal definition of "merit" is way too tight? Loosening it while decreasing the amount of non-merit-based green cards available would be the obvious solution.
- whatupmd 9y ago"those holding advanced degrees, and those with extraordinary ability in a particular field." Would be interested to see a break-down of degree and field. I will posit that majority of H-1Bs are Masters holders in IT field from the same country.
- calvinbhai 9y agoMajority in IT are from India and China, getting degrees in US universities. But high skilled merit based immigration helps industries that are not in the IT field.
- scarface74 9y ago
- brooklyntribe 9y agoRepublicans are "afraid" of unknowns. People, places things. It seems to be wired in. They are not really racists, just they are "afraid." Probably goes back to ancient days. Who is that stranger? Do they carry a disease, will they take my wife, etc. Why take a chance? While Democrats seem to welcome the unknown. Take that chance. Lets just take a leap. WTF, life is to experience it all. And then we die. Seems that we are really not ready to live in urban areas yet, with all these foreign "tribes", amazed we all do. Conservative friends: OMG that food is so spicy, how can you eat it? Liberal friends: Give me more spice! Pile it on! I'm an old WASP, pile on the spice, drop me off where I don't speak the language, can't figure out the food, toilet paper? What's that? Life is so short, I'm ready to just take any chance. Mars? Sign me up, one way is better. :-)
- anotherbrownguy 9y agoDoesn't explain why Republicans freed the slaves and Democrats fought for 60 years to bring it back... but whatever floats your boat. I wish you best of luck to your trip to Mars. Hope it is one way.
- hedora 9y agoThe republicans carry most of the south these days. I guess this means the confederacy was strongly pro-Lincoln? Presumably the whole civil war thing was fake news?
- BoiledCabbage 9y agoRegardless of whether you agree or disagree with him, it's pretty clear he's talking about the modern republican party. Ie the coalition that was formed as a backlash to the civil rights act. If you disagree with him (and there are legit reasons to), then write your views opposed to him, don't try to misrepresent his view and argue against that instead.
- anotherbrownguy 9y agoThe "backlash" was from former Democrats who were brainwashed for decades to hate the blacks who then decided to support the Republican party as a revenge because they felt betrayed by the Democratic Party when they switched their position on black people... not very different from some former Bernie supporters voting Trump. If Republicans as a whole are now "afraid of blacks" because a small southern group joined it as a revenge then would you also say that now they are also afraid of capitalism because some Bernie supporters joined it?
- jgalt212 9y agoProbably not the right way to go about this, but should help push up median wages. So for that reason, probably not a bad thing.
- calvinbhai 9y agoThis article is short on facts. As a high skilled temp immigrant in US (from India), I follow these stories very closely and it is sad to see such scare mongering articles based on pure imagination! 1) Diversity lottery needs to go. IMO it's purpose was to find low skilled immigrants who'd often become taxi drivers or food cart owners. Most of these industries that relied on DV immigrant labor have been disrupted and the new incoming DV immigrants have fewer jobs. If not stopped, the US itself has a brewing problem with unemployed new low skilled immigrants. 2)for people from India and China, abolishing h1b and EB green cards and replacing it with merit based system will be a zillion times better. Current system of giving 20,000 green cards to Indians, 20k to Chinese and 20k every other country, is highly discriminatory and leads to many many sufferings that Americans don't (want to) realise. Hope Trump admin abolishes h1b, L1b, EB green cards and replaces the whole thing with a merit based immigration system. 3) iirc Trump's rhetorics against legal immigration that his voters are concerned about, is primarily the h2b visa, which was expanded under the Obama administration, thus regularising the illegal immigration from Mexico into legal one (correct me if I'm wrong here). Either his voters liked it when there was more illegal immigration so the labor would be cheaper, or just that right now there's a lot of competition they face for their jobs and want to reduce h2 b visas. US economy is changing a lot in terms of automation, AI, and machine learning, thus reducing the need for a lot of cheap immigrant labor, while increasing the need for high skilled labor to stay competitive with Tech giants from China. Which means, the US immigration policy needs to adapt to it ASAP. I wish politico and alcorn.law dug into these points instead of writing click baity articles to score points against Trump.
- dazilcher 9y agoI must call BS on your first point: it's not just false, but also quite naive to think that an immigration program would purposely target low-skilled individuals. First, DV is supposed to use random selection (lottery) - so the resulting distribution should reflect the statistical makeup of the applicant pool. Second, one of the DV requirements is a high school diploma - so the pool is biased towards higher education from the start. Third, the rest of the process (documentation, online application, English/affidavit/liquidity requirements) again favors educated/affluent individuals. So I posit that the opposite is true: DV is selecting from a highly-skilled applicant pool, and the benefitting immigrants are better educated than the average population. Anecdotal evidence: all DV immigrants I know (including myself) hold at least a bachelor degree, and work in high-skill professional fields.