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Visiting Chinese Megacities
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoZhengzhou most definitely was never a ghost city, being one of China's 8 ancient capitals. Maybe they meant zhengdong? Ghost cities in china are almost always underpopulated districts of existing large cities.
- daxfohl 9y agoThey do exist. http://daxfohl.blogspot.com/2008/05/week-4-great-ride-giving-up-and-train.html http://daxfohl.blogspot.com/2008/05/week-4-great-ride-giving... But I agree Zhengzhou is not one of them.
- halfelf 9y agoZhengzhou was a ghost city and hasn't been a capital for more than 2000 years. Its developing to major city in China in the modern sense only begins in 20th century, after the railway traffic prosperous here.
- sanxiyn 9y ago> Shenyang has Japanese modernist architecture from the 1930s, and the city's economy is in retreat, somewhat akin to America's Rust Belt. Maybe you've never heard of Shenyang, but the broader surrounding municipality has more than eight million people, making it more populous than many countries. Shenyang is great, and it is kind of criminal not to mention that Shenyang is the old capital of Qing empire. You should visit the imperial palace. It is distinctively different from Forbidden City of Beijing.
- dis-sys 9y agoNo, it is not great. It is more like Detroit in the US - bad weather, high unemployment rate and crime rate, dead heavy industry, huge outflow of its local population. If Shenyang is great, how come its population is dropping so fast?
- sanxiyn 9y agoI meant great as a tourist. It probably isn't that great to live.
- daxfohl 9y agoI like Detroit. Okay, fine, no I don't. But I live in Michigan and love the rest of it. Low cost of living, great schools, reasonable opportunity for educated workers. And I love the weather. Great for all seasons of outdoor activity. I'm curious if Liaoning (outside Shenyang) is the same way. (I've had a long-running fascination with HeiLongJiang for reasons I don't understand myself, though I've never been there)
- schuke 9y agoBeing from Liaoning but never been to Michigan, I must say it's not half as good as the Michigan you described.
- daxfohl 9y agoWell, save up some money on the coast, then move to (Western or Northern) Michigan some day and live like a king. Okay, eating out can be hit-or-miss (mostly miss), but some diamonds-in-the-rough do exist. Outdoors is great. I mean if ascending whatever-K feet is the only qualifier then outdoors sucks, but seriously everything else here, outdoors is great. Four seasons is like being able to annually travel between four completely different regions of the world without actually moving. And if you have a decent salary, get yourself some awesome snow moving equipment, just to feel cool.
- dis-sys 9y agoDetroit had this extreme weather of almost -30°C, it is just scary to even think about that. Liaoning has the same issue with the lowest on record being -34°C. If you are interested in the North-East part of China, there is a western travellers made documentary coming soon, it is called Conquering Northern China made by a British South African and an American. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsYMZK89XHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsYMZK89XHg https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/205422728/conquering-northern-china-adventure-travel-series?ref=category https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/205422728/conquering-no...
- jake-low 9y agoI was pleasantly surprised by this article after being primed by the click-baity "listicle" title. One claim that stuck out to me: > [As several hundred million people moved from the countryside into urban areas] ... Wages and living standards have risen to create the biggest rapid boost in prosperity the world has seen, ever. Can anyone comment on the accuracy of this? What other times in human history would be in the running for this "title"?
- jpatokal 9y agoThe Great Divergence (aka the Industrial Revolution's impact on GDP) is the obvious candidate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Divergence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Divergence But the population of Europe at the time or even America is only a fraction of China's, and the speed of China's growth has been even more spectacular. It took Britain ~50 years to double GDP between 1840 and 1890: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Biaroch_European_GDP_per_capita_1830-1890.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Biaroch_European_GDP_per_... While China tripled their GDP/capita (both US$ and PPP) in a bit over 10: https://www.lowyinstitute.org/sites/default/files/interpreter-images/2012/1/120127-thirlwell-1.png https://www.lowyinstitute.org/sites/default/files/interprete...
- dmurray 9y agoDoubling GDP in 50 years is not a lot. 1.4 percent annually compounded will do that. The US postwar boom might be a better comparison.
- arethuza 9y agoLooking at those charts it looks like that previous doubling of UK GDP took ~350 years.
- RugnirViking 9y agoThose charts are GDP per capita; the population also increased in this time
- sanxiyn 9y ago> If you watch the Chinese making pilgrimages to Qufu, the burial site of Confucius, you'll learn just how strong the long-term continuity of their history is. Qufu is highly recommended. It is the holy city with continuity streteching back at least a thousand years, visited by many emperors from different dynasties. A similar site is Ise Grand Shrine in Japan.
- daxfohl 9y agoArticle claims 10, but I counted 12. My CN geography is good enough to know that Yunnan and Sichuan are provinces, but maybe some of the proper nouns were too. Anyway here are the ones I counted. Any errors? 1. Kunming (Yunnan) 2. Chongqing 3. Qingdao 4. Zhengzhou 5. Xian 6. Nanjing 7. Dalian 8. Shenyang 9. Chengdu (Sichuan) 10. Qufu 11. Beijing 12. Shanghai London, New York and Paris (not China IIRC) Does anyone know google maps (or whatever) well enough to make a URL with markers for all these?
- sanxiyn 9y agoI think the intent is not to include Chengdu and Qufu. Chengdu is not described as a destination (just for cuisine), and Qufu is not a megacity.
- daxfohl 9y agoHaha, Chengdu is the only one I've been to (having been lots of other places in China). Oh, okay Beijing too...fine. Best cuisine? Frankly I liked the old Hui stronghold of Ningxia the best. Plain old noodle soup, but to perfection every time. And very good who-knows-what-that-might-be-but-who-cares-its-delicious satay all around. Chengdu would be a close second though. While I respect the culinary history of China, IMO SE Asia and India both blow all regions of China out of the water. (Though Taiwan, if you think of it as part of China, being my first ever overseas habitat, holds a bit of a soft spot in my cuisinitude).
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoChengdu is a great city to visit, if only as a starting to point to sichuan's awesome Tibetan highlands (and see the pandas on the way out). I'm not really into Chinese cities in general, they seem to blend together in typical ways. They are just spring boards to the real adventures.
- helb 9y ago> … to make a URL with markers for all these? Here ya go: https://goo.gl/t6pdMt https://goo.gl/t6pdMt
- factsaresacred 9y agoGuangzhou didn't make the cut. Perhaps too obvious a choice but it's easily one of my favorite cities. Great weather, cosmopolitan population, good food and close to HK. Plus feels more chill than other cities.
- cromwellian 9y agoThey also left out Xinjiang, and while it doesn't have a Tier-1/Tier-2 city in it, if you want to see the diversity of China, Gansu or Xinjiang are good. Heavy security, but radically different landscape, food, and ethnic culture, especially in the South. Oh, and less humid, blue skies, more breathable air. I spent the July 4th holiday week there (and yes, it is relatively safe). Nanning is also surprisingly upscale, after going to the rural areas of Guilin, I didn't expect Nanning to be so well developed. Shanghai is always my first love. Truly "mega", good infra, good food, etc.
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoI've been to Urumqi in 2006 and it wasn't that bad, a very standard Chinese city with some cool nightmarkets and mosques. There are no other mega cities to speak of, I haven't been to kashgar before. Nanning is pretty meh, but then so are most of the cities on this list :). Liuzhou is much more interesting, as it is stuck between Guilin and nanning both geographically and in feeling (big city with embedded karst mountains and not many tourists).
- cromwellian 9y agoI went to Yangshuo before Nanning, it's a little more confining and touristy but mostly Shanghainese, not Westerners. Turpan is like a cross between Urumqi and Kashgar, in the sense that it has a high uighur population, much more uighur culture and architecture, but still identifiably a Chinese city. Also, many Uighurs in that area tend to speak surprisingly good English, which is good because their Mandarin accent can be a bit thick, To me, when you get to Kashgar you start to feel more like you're Central Asia.
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoYangshuo has more westerners than other places. If you find yourself in gunagxi again, definitely check out liuzhou, it's Guilin's grittier twin. I'd like to visit Kashgar someday. Northern xinjiang was really nice to tour around also, except they didn't let me out of the van when we reached the khazakistan border (no foreigners allowed).
- pentae 9y agoI live in SE Asia (Thailand) and although I'm fascinated by China, my experience with Chinese tourists has turned me off visiting the mainland completely. They are more often than not incredibly loud, rude and lack almost all basic human courtesy we take for granted in the west and even in asian countries like Thailand. They will push past you in queues, yell mandarin loudly in your face to others behind you, stand in the middle of the street blocking traffic, play videos on their phone speaker on full volume without using headphones - I could go on and on and on. There's absolutely zero consideration for anyone but themselves and are, by a wide margin, the rudest tourists i've ever encountered anywhere. I can't help but wonder if it's just the type Chinese tourists that visit Thailand and mainland China would be different, but its just not a risk i'm willing to take.
- myrandomcomment 9y agoIn London with the family. Spent the day at the British Museum. Full of people from all over the world. It was crowded. However if an path was blocked it was Chinese tour group with no regard for the others around them. The tour groups from other nations kept a clear path. It's really sad that such a rich culture with a rich history has such lost generation of rude people.
- dis-sys 9y agoMost of those annoying and stupid individuals are from the so called China's Lost Generation. I found the following video made by two westerners explains the reasons in a pretty accurate way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Dh2gFX4Mg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Dh2gFX4Mg
- goobynight 9y agoShoutout to the whole ADV China channel. As an expat in Hong Kong that rides motorcycles, I enjoy their stuff a lot.
- dis-sys 9y agocan't wait for their upcoming conquering northern china series.
- Kiro 9y agoI don't like travelling. I'm normally completely uninterested in any destination but this makes me excited for some reason.
- contingencies 9y agoI've lived in China for 16 years and been to nearly all the cities mentioned in the article plus many more. I agree they are interesting to visit, however for different reasons. Personally I have little tolerance for the east coast cities for all but a whirlwind visit, generally being too large and natureless to justify an extended stay. The great things you can see are random new architecture (a highly successful architect friend of mine recently described China as a "playground for architects"), old stuff (though increasingly fake / rebuilt - if you are a real history buff you need to do some research to find the less visited sites), interesting and highly regionally varied food, and almost total street-level safety. Things that can be not so fun: transportation crushes, higher prices (it is no longer cheap to travel here), communications and cultural issues, general lack of tourism infrastructure or infrastructure limited to handful of sites with a mass tourism focus. Personally I prefer the smaller towns, natural areas, and obscure cultural attractions like locally preserved architecture, performance traditions and wacky foods. Overall it's a very interesting country and worth a look, though if you have a very picky diet (eg. vegan), a weak stomach or constitution, or tire easily it may not be the destination of choice. Anyone from HN passing through Shenzhen is welcome to hit me up for a beer!
- baybal2 9y agoHi, are you living there all the time? I'm visiting the city from time to time.
- Gabriel_h 9y agoHi Walter, I'm a fellow founder based in SZ, it would be great to get in contact. Your Myanmar-focused financial services startup sounds interesting. I always try to meet anyone doing something I find interesting :) Could you drop me an email at gabriel@moju.io? Any other HN readers based in SZ, also feel free to reach out :)
- l5870uoo9y 9y agoAfter living in Hong Kong for a while, what stood out to me the most – compared to European cities – was the lack of traditional cultural elements in the form of museums, theaters, art or architecture. Guangzhou seemed the same, just must more poor. Entertainment is almost ironically fully consumerist or decadent in communist terminology.
- fewers 9y agoThere's a fair amount of museums, interesting areas and elaborate buildings in Shenzhen. But it's not like Europe where everything is in one place, it's a huge city. I don't think HK is very strong at public things, except national parks and to some extent transport.
- sjbase 9y agoCan anyone weigh in via personal experience: how much Chinese would I need to learn to avoid getting pigeonholed to tourist areas in these cities? Is Mandarin spoken pretty uniformly? I'd love to go, and have used google translate extensively, but am concerned about not being able to read signs. I agree that travel should be challenging, but not to the degree that it kills the experience.
- barry-cotter 9y agoMy cousin has no Mandarin and has been travelling in China for the past month. I live here and have basic Mandarin. Get used to pointing at things and saying "Zhege" = this one. It's doable if you're willing to point at things and pantomime. It's not a lot worse than leaving tourist areas in Italy. Point, mime and grimace.
- contingencies 9y agoYou can do a 'point and click' destination spec with taxi drivers or just ask randoms with a map, or Baidu maps and a mobile phone ... you don't really need words to get around. A lot of people speak basic English these days, too.
- rsync 9y ago"Can anyone weigh in via personal experience: how much Chinese would I need to learn to avoid getting pigeonholed to tourist areas in these cities? Is Mandarin spoken pretty uniformly?" I think this depends more on the traveler than on the city/nation. I don't think there is anywhere that language necessarily pigeonholes you to tourist areas - it's simply how comfortable or uncomfortable it makes you. That being said, I think you would have very good luck in Hong Kong, for obvious reasons. Beyond english accessibility, I find Hong Kong to be the most fascinating and interesting city in the world. I love to be there and miss it when I am not. If you can find some kind of personal connection there - a meetup or hackerspace or ... anything ... it is definitely helpful and will get you off the beaten path much more quickly.
- echion 9y ago> personal connection there - a meetup or hackerspace HKGers should check out DimSumLabs ( https://www.meetup.com/dimsumlabs/ https://www.meetup.com/dimsumlabs/ ) as a really nice bunch (at least when I was there).
- havella 9y agoFor many of the reasons expressed here, specially the 'business culture' and 'hustling factor', China is the country that reminds me most of United States.
- pmlnr 9y agoChengdu is a wonderful city, despite the pollution problems, and it's surroundings - Emei, Qingcheng, Jiuzhaigo, Huanglong - are unique, magnificent, and rather less known for westerners. Visit them while you can.
- audi100quattro 9y agoBeen to a few of these cities a couple of times. The development and culture is amazing to see. The Shanghai museum is well curated, dongzhimen st. in Beijing is great for food. Vegetarian food isn't too hard to come by if you're ok with eggs. Monks are vegetarian, and if you can find a Buddhist temple, ask them about food. Need to make it to Shenzhen, and Chengdu sometime!
- fewers 9y agoFor an idea of how these cities look here are some drone shots: Shenzhen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKLrmi5eOn8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKLrmi5eOn8 Shanghai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cC-j4_NtvE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cC-j4_NtvE Guangzhou: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNlN1_ANaJs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNlN1_ANaJs Chongqing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07dWi-MJReM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07dWi-MJReM Shenyang: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGBSpoTXZmw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGBSpoTXZmw Suzhou: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aXLMS-miKU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aXLMS-miKU Dalian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeEJNNMcR1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeEJNNMcR1s Zhengzhou: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiOlUYfM310 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiOlUYfM310 Chengdu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xwVQ4Jb1zc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xwVQ4Jb1zc
- onetokeoverthe 9y agoThe world will be a better place when we strap vr goggles on these chinese tourists and keep them home.