13 ms·

Disneyland raised prices to shorten waits

114 points by t23 9y ago

BigChiefSmokem 9y ago
Disney, instead of using fancy "wait in line" tech just stop shoving so many people into the park. Problem solved.
- kin 9y ago
  This could definitely work if they changed how their annual passes worked. Right now, pass holders can come in whenever there is not a black out date, but Disney needs to first implement a system where days have to be booked in advance. Otherwise, first come first serve would unfairly block those traveling from out of town.
dkonofalski 9y ago
I always wondered why Disney doesn't open a third park somewhere square in the middle of the U.S. There's literally no competition with Disney parks as they're one-of-a-kind and it would both open more space at their other parks and bring in a huge segment of the population that doesn't go to their parks simply because of travel costs. Disneyland and Disney World are always busy. Look at the data. It might be time.
- borne0 9y ago
  population density maybe? for both customers and ensuring a steady supply of workers.
  - Simulacra 9y ago
    I don't think it's population density. I grew up in this town called Augusta, Georgia. Every year there's this event that draws people from all over the world. Despite two hours, give or take, major cities, it draws them in. Another point of view is that areas with less population density are use to commuting long distances. Put something like a Disney park in the middle of Kansas and people WILL come, and within ten years the cities closest to that park will be booming too.
    - cuchoi 9y ago
      Maybe US Americans will go. But, as you say, there is an important share of the market that are internationals.
      - delinka 9y ago
        And they'll continue going to Orlando and LA. The idea isn't to replace the existing parks as a destination. Nor to offer something so different as to be yet another must-see Disney attraction. A copy of Orlando some place in the heartland would give access to more Americans.
      - hinkley 9y ago
        Well that argues for putting one outside of Fort Worth, TX, then. But the current hubs might not stay the only hubs. The new Boeing planes are rated for about 500 miles longer range, so that's going to put a lot of airports inland from the coasts as reachable from Europe and Asia, and a lot of coastal cities with smaller, cheaper airplanes.
    - privong 9y ago
      > I don't think it's population density. I grew up in this town called Augusta, Georgia. Every year there's this event that draws people from all over the world. Despite two hours, give or take, major cities, it draws them in. I think there's a big difference here – it's one thing to draw a large crowd for a single ~weeklong event, and another to do it continuously over the course of a year. I imagine the staffing requirements for Augusta National are different the week of the Masters versus the rest of the year (and I know that at least some of the additional staffing is done by volunteers). So the economics are wildly different. A Disneyland in the heart of the US would probably require fairly high staffing levels continuously. So this would require a fairly consistent attendance. Sure, there will be seasonal/holiday variations, but I doubt a theme park could survive the attendance amplitude swing that Augusta National sees between the Masters and the rest of the year.
- Simulacra 9y ago
  "Disney Heartland" right smack in the middle of Kansas would be huge, not just to the local economies, but also to the tax base, and tourism.
  - xxpor 9y ago
    Too far from an airport.
  - dkonofalski 9y ago
    Tornados would never let that work.
    - idlewords 9y ago
      Charge extra for the tornadoes. Call it a ride.
      - qbrass 9y ago
        Shuttle service to the land of Oz.
        josiahpeters 9y ago
        I think they'll have to figure out the IP out first. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_The_Wizard_of_Oz_and_related_works_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_The_Wiza... Sounds like WB and Disney both have claims to different aspects. Interesting bit in the Wikipedia article with Disney having a copyright expert on set to help them choose a color of green that wasn't infringing.
      - dkonofalski 9y ago
        Thanks for my huge laugh today. ;)
  - rich335z 9y ago
    Erratic weather might be a concern... large amounts of severe thunderstorms, hail, tornadoes in the Spring, and snow and ice in Fall/Winter could be quite disruptive. A little further east might alleviate some of that, though
- th0ma5 9y ago
  They tried: http://www.businessinsider.com/disney-america-theme-park-history-2016-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/disney-america-theme-park-his...
  - dkonofalski 9y ago
    Not the same thing. Disney America was an American History-themed park that was going to be outside of Washington, DC. I mean a park like Disneyland or Disney World, but in Kansas or Texas or something like that.
    - mobilefriendly 9y ago
      Yeah Disney America was planned for Virginia horse country outside of DC, some of the most beautiful and wealthy real estate in the region. The NIMBY factor was fierce and the locals were DC elites who wanted no part of it.
      - tssva 9y ago
        It was more next door to horse country than actual horse country. The big rallying point was that it was going to encroach on the civil war battlefield nearby. Disney actually had a large buffer between the park and the battlefield. Now what would have been a preserved forest buffer is either a housing development or is planned to be one. In fact almost all the land that was going to be Disney America is all housing developments which have brought more people and traffic than Disney America would have and less jobs and tax revenue. Years before Disney America the same people that led the opposition to it blocked Legoland from opening in the eastern half of the same county. Again the area is now all housing developments and shopping centers.
  - kurttheviking 9y ago
    I think the mistake with that was the focus: "the park was to have been dedicated to the history of the United States"[1]. Given the popularity of existing parks, I think it's fair to say people (especially those with kids) seeking a vacation at Disney want castles, Mickey Mouse, Space Mountain, etc. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney%27s_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney%27s_America
- ultimoo 9y ago
  I am guessing weather has something to do with this. Do other places in the center of the country have a similar all year mild weather as So Cal or Orlando? Overall this a great idea though, families could fly in to an airport close to the amusement parks, stay for a few days and directly fly out -- you're right in that there is little reason for an amusement park to be in one of the most expensive places in the country.
  - dkonofalski 9y ago
    I thought about weather but there are places in Arizona and Colorado or even Texas that weather would not be a problem. It would almost definitely need to be in the southern half of the US, but I think it could still work.
    - logfromblammo 9y ago
      Most of the US has a "continental climate", with no moderating effect from nearby oceans, so you end up with hot, humid summers, and overcast, biting winters. So there's a zone of decent climate, where it is far enough north to have just enough freeze days in winter to kill off the worst insects, and far enough south to have a decent selection of perennial landscaping plants. The northern contour of the zone approximates lines through these cities: Pueblo, Colorado Kansas City, Kansas/Missouri St. Louis, Missouri/Illinois Louisville, Kentucky/Indiana Cincinnati, Ohio/Kentucky Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania The southern contour roughly follows: Santa Fe, New Mexico Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Memphis, Tennessee/Arkansas Chattanooga, Tennessee/Georgia North of that zone, you can't really keep a park open year-round, through the winter, and south of it, the summer months get too brutal for tourist comfort, until you get close enough to the coasts to tame the local climate. A park near the confluence of the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers would have its pick of 5 different jurisdictions, decent climate, and access to nigh-unlimited water and TVA hydro and nuclear power. And you could reasonably buy up a lot of land cheaply without the locals figuring out who is doing it or why, just as it was done in central Florida.
      - idlewords 9y ago
- Aloha 9y ago
  Weather is the largest issue - a Disney park will generate its own traffic flows - Orlando was not a population center in 1971 (when WDW opened). You could do a park somewhere in Texas - the weather is hospitable, but I dont think Disney is interested in the investment to do so right now.
  - dave5104 9y ago
    They just finished building Shanghai Disneyland, which apparently caused a few budget issues in the Parks & Resorts division, so I think you're right about a third US location being off the table for now. Disney also recently bought out the owners of Disneyland Paris, so they'll probably be putting some investment into that park as well (since it's sorely needed--DLP is considered one of the lesser Disney parks).
    - InTheArena 9y ago
      Which is a bit unfortunate. I visited it for the first time this year, and absolutely loved it. The Hollywood studios there is very “lightly” themed, but the magic kingdom there was absolutely wonderful. It reminded me of what Disneyland was like in my youth. The pirates land there, as well as the Thunder mountain close are absolutely the best versions that I have seen. Disney’s been bailing out the French corporation that theoretically owns half of DLP for a while. That structure was difficult to work with, but they also didn’t have the revenue that Disneyland Paris has (where they have a similar structure).
      - Aloha 9y ago
        DLP has been consistently underperforming when compared to the other parks. You are correct though, it is one of the most beautiful.
        raverbashing 9y ago
        Apart from managerial issues, I wonder if weather has something to do with it (it rains a lot in Paris) South of France or Spain might have been a better pick but of course there's the issue of access
- InTheArena 9y ago
  Disclaimer - Disney annual passholder here. In terms of where to locate the park, Disney was a big early believer in a analytical approach. They hired SRI to determine the best location for Disneyland back in the 1950s. They came up with a amazing amount of operational and systems research that we use now. The big factors where climate, access to a huge population base, and multiple access to freeways. When it came to Disney World, the factor where those, plus the ability to buy large amount of land before anyone was aware of it, and could drive up prices with speculation. Disney has tried a number of different strategies in the past to make parks more accessible - including the idea of building a Disneyland on a boat, that would travel the world, and stop in various ports for months, before packing up and sailing to the next trip. Most of the demand for Disney growth wise is international, with Brazil probably next to get a park. In terms of line waits, there are two things at play - one Disney has realized that they have been leaving money at the table. Contrary to this article, the vast majortity of the excess demand is not single day visitors at Disneyland, but rather season pass holders in California. This is why they have jacked up the cost for annual passes a ton. I was listening to a podcast recently that postulated that as much as 45% of the daily visitors to Disneyland might be annual pass holders. Expect the cost to go way up - it’s getting close to double the cost of a Disneyland pass compared to a Disney World pass. The other thing is that Disney is putting massive capital into the parks, to grow them. They just opened Avatar land in Animal kingdom, but the most exciting are the new STar Wars Land, Toy Story Land, Epcot overhaul, and marvel land in California. Disney will be adding a ton of capacity, but they are trying to raise ticket prices to offset.
  - pfranz 9y ago
    I believe the reason is because they started doing payment plans for annual passes so sales shot up. I'm sure the capital costs are crazy for building a new park, but with all the demand I'm still a bit surprised there's no talk of building a Disney park in the middle of the U.S. They appear to operate very independently (the fact WDW has had fastpass+ and magic bands for years and DL is just now announcing a completely different system, Maxpass). You mentioned demand internationally. Disneyland Paris is the only park outside of the U.S. wholly owned by Disney. Not sure if it was a concession (I could see that for China) or as a risk-sharing thing. I would imagine Disney would want to own 100% of any new park if possible.
- forgotpw1123 9y ago
  Weather is a huge issue for Disney parks. Both are busy all year round and a third park would be no different. It makes no sense to open parks that can only make money part of the year. The data shows the busiest times are December, March, and May so it would be really stupid to put a park anywhere those months have bad weather. This leaves the South and West Coast. Dallas and Oklahoma City are the only realistic places for another park that's easier to get to from the Midwest.
  - blktiger 9y ago
    There are plenty of other amusement parks across the country that aren't open all year, why does a Disney park need to be open all year?
- briandear 9y ago
  They own several hundred acres slightly northwest of Houston. It’s a brilliant location: major airport hub, gateway city to Latin America, solid (but often hot) weather, far enough from the coast to mitigate serious hurricane risk, low costs, large labor pool. But it takes years and years for these things to happen, if they ever happen. The land purchase was probably 9 years ago, but with these companies, the price of that sort of land is often just a rounding error, so it’s possible they’ve bought land all over the place to keep options open.
- losteverything 9y ago
  If you want to see your grandchildren more often live near Disney world. 22 visits in 18 years. If grandparents lived in st Louis i doubt each spring they would get a visit ( as the child dictates vacations often)
  - magic_beans 9y ago
    Sounds like spoiled children to me. Parents have a responsibility to ensure a strong relationship between children and grandparents.
    - losteverything 9y ago
      With greater income comes greater mobility. Parents retiring to a place more than a short drive away has unintended consequences. Or children moving far away for employment. In this particular case the gparents moving near WDW made this outcome: post child rearing, only 35 separate visits for the rest of their lifetime (25+ yrs) each visit required plane trip & time off. It was the gparents choice to move so far away..... And WDW was a wonderful place to share our time together.
      - cableshaft 9y ago
        Better than grandparents moving states away to Arizona. We visited them twice in about 25 years (although they visited us several times, so we still saw them once every year or two). My other grandparents lived in the same city, so I got to experience both near and far. I definitely saw the ones in town a lot more often (at least 30 times a year, I think).
  - ourmandave 9y ago
    Or like most of my retired neighbors, live nearby and offer to babysit. You'll get 18 visits in 22 days.
    - JshWright 9y ago
      There's a reason we bought a house directly across the street from my parents (that reason was that my wife was pregnant with twins...)
- gwbas1c 9y ago
  Because no one lives in the center of the US; most of us live close to the coasts. It's easier to travel to LA or Orlando than to the center of the country.
  - mercutio2 9y ago
    I live on the coast, but the notion that no one lives in the Midwest is absurd and derisive. About two thirds of the US population live in coastal states, but that includes gulf coast states which are pretty central on the east west axis. That still leaves a third of the population, with the Chicago metro area being one of the largest and densest catch basins.
    - logfromblammo 9y ago
      The Great Lakes megalopolis has more people in it than the Boston-to-DC Northeast megalopolis.
  - dkonofalski 9y ago
    That's, quite possibly, one of the silliest things I've ever heard. At least 50% of the U.S. population doesn't live near the coasts.
    - mercutio2 9y ago
      Surprisingly, when I went to debunk the original ridiculous statement, I found that if you count the gulf coast, it’s only a third of the US population that doesn’t live in an ocean-adjacent state. “No one” is still the silliest thing I’ve heard for a while, though!
  - DerekL 9y ago
    Plenty of people live all over the eastern half of the US. It's only the western half that is mostly empty except for the coast. Here's the population by time zone, in millions: Eastern: 150.2 (47.1%) Central: 92.3 (29.0%) Mountain: 21.3 (6.7%) Pacific: 53.0 (16.6%) https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-the-US-population-lives-in-the-Eastern-Central-and-Pacific-timezones-respectively https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-the-US-population-l...
dsun179 9y ago
Clickbait-title but actually great content. Never seen this before.
fiatjaf 9y ago
Please, what are the results? There's too much useless text behind that clickbait headline.
- nmstoker 9y ago
  How can you tell it's useless if you didn't read it?!
- kin 9y ago
  The results are posted further down the article. You're right though, title is most definitely click bait. The notion of raising prices for the sake of shorter wait times is barely an assumption.
Simulacra 9y ago
It looks like by the article raising ticket prices did not reduce the number of people into the park. I think they should have just capped the number of people in the park at one time, in addition to the increased ticket prices. I feel like Disney is a melting pot. It's affordable at some time interval for just about every family. If the prices keep going up it could risk being less of that melting pot, and more of just the pot with more money.
- Klathmon 9y ago
  They already do limit the number of people in the park, it just only tends to get hit a handful of times a year. And for good reason IMO. I don't know about you, but if I planned a vacation and then wasn't allowed in the park during that time I'd be pissed, even more if the reason was so that those who did get in could have less wait times and I couldn't even get into the park to experience it.
  - eof 9y ago
    It would be pretty straight forward to buy tickets in advance for a specific day.
    - pxeboot 9y ago
      Exactly. They already sell tickets online, but they are not for a specific day.
    - Klathmon 9y ago
      But now you are just making it so only people that plan it many many months out can get in. And it comes with it's own slew of problems. Like you'd need to either have hourly booking, or you'd need to assume when people are going to be going for the day, and you could still just end up with an empty park at some times, and crazy long lines at others. Combined with the fact that "park hopping" is really common, especially when you don't have a huge amount of days in a vacation there (or don't want to blow a whole day on one of the smaller parks). I'm not convinced it's as straightforward as you'd think. Their solution of the "fast pass" system they have in florida is I think the best of both worlds. You can "schedule" time for a ride months out, but they still let as many people as they safely can in the park.
amelius 9y ago
If only customers were so forgiving if their webpage didn't load within 500 milliseconds.
- petervandijck 9y ago
  If only our webpages were as awesome as Disneyland :)
fourmii 9y ago
Do they do staggered ticket pricing based on what attractions are accessible? Last time my family was passing through LA, I looked into taking my 3 and 7 year olds. We could only see the one ticket price. Thought it was just too expensive considering the younger kid wouldn't have been able to nor would have wanted to ride most of the attractions. It would have been nice to bring them just to poke around...
- dave5104 9y ago
  Kids 2 and under go in for free, but that's about it.
ikeyany 9y ago
> During the first month after it opened, the new Guardians attraction had an average wait time of 93 minutes, with the maximum wait time climbing to five hours, according to the data. Words escape me.
- dave5104 9y ago
  One thing I didn't see mentioned in the article are demographics for visitors. Disneyland has always had a very local crowd, which is why they do things differently from Walt Disney World in Florida. By "local crowd", I mean you get a lot more people with season passes who go just for dinner in the park and then leave. Waiting up to 5 hours for the Guardians attraction would be a novelty to them since they've literally done everything else in the park many times over.
- InTheArena 9y ago
  That’s usual opening day insanity. Avatar land, at Animal Kingdom in Florida had a four hour wait - to get into the land to say nothing of rides. It always takes a while to get the operations side figured out. At Disneyland it’s worse, because they don’t have fastpass plus (which allows Disney to schedule a ton of rides, and also distributed traffic through the park). It’s also that it was unexpected. Disney was counting on Avatar land being the big opening weekend thing, and instead Guardian stole it’s thunder a bit. From everyone I have talked to, the ride is a blast, but I haven’t been on it yet.
- wccrawford 9y ago
  The same thing happened at Harry Potter for Universal. Fans are insane. Having said that, I was there for the second day of Harry Potter and waited in the 3 hr line to get into the HP area, and then another 1.5 hr line to actually ride the ride. I was there with a friend, and we chatted the whole time and it was a lot of fun. I probably wouldn't do it again for a new ride anywhere, but it was a neat experience once.
ww520 9y ago
They have already capped the people going into the park. People with single-day passes can be turned away at the gate if the park is full. Two-day or multi-day pass got priority.
- habosa 9y ago
  Link? I can't believe if you have a one-day trip you can really get turned away at the gate.
  - wccrawford 9y ago
    http://www.disneydining.com/happens-disney-park-closed-due-reaching-capacity/ http://www.disneydining.com/happens-disney-park-closed-due-r...
Aloha 9y ago
Former Disneyland CM (Cast Member) here. Burgeoning wait times, and park overcrowding is (in my opinion) largely a result of Annual Pass sales. The AP's come out, clog up the park and make it less hospitable to non-AP guests.
- nf05papsjfVbc 9y ago
  "clog up" seems a bit strong given that they actually paid for the entrance and are just using a service they paid for.
  - Aloha 9y ago
    Yes, they did - but... They don't buy (lots of) stuff - AP's often will drop by for half a day and eat off property, but yet will still plop down in a restaurant and take up table space. They also don't purchase much merch either. They travel inefficiently - AP's often will come to meet up with friends, and like most southern californians, they don't usually carpool - to the point that in 2015, Disney almost stopped selling parking with the AP because of capacity reasons. So I think clog up is accurate here. AP's in general use the park in very different ways then the people who are vacationing at the park - Disney has made it clear that its primary market is the vacationer - but they cant drop the AP system without alienating a bunch of folks.
k2enemy 9y ago
If the strategy of avoiding long lines captures your interest, you'll probably enjoy the El Farol Bar problem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Farol_Bar_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Farol_Bar_problem) and more general minority games.
mrbonner 9y ago
I'd like to take my little girl there but after hearing wait time I am kind of withdraw to the idea. Does someone have any tip to visiting DL to minimize the suffering for us adults (i.e time of year, what ride/fun things are worth the wait, etc..)
- sosuke 9y ago
  Get the speed pass band thingy. Totally worth it and it pretty much kills the wait times. At least it was that way when I had gone.
  - dave5104 9y ago
    The Disney MagicBands? Those are only available in Walt Disney World in Florida, not Disneyland in Anaheim. Anaheim only has paper FastPasses, which are the same concept, but a little more difficult to manage since you need to run around the park getting them. MaxPass for $10 extra per person per day is coming soon, however, and will let you book FastPasses via their app, but it's a shame it's an additional cost.
  - InTheArena 9y ago
    That’s universal, not Disney. Unless you are talking the magic bands (which give you three rides at assigned times). Those are great, and free, but are very limited, especially with attractions that just opened.
- InTheArena 9y ago
  Touring plans.com They use mathematical optimization techniques to predict the best order to visit things. Typically cuts Several hours of waiting out. IT’s well worth it. (Len Testa, I will DM you for my referral check ;-)
  - lentesta 9y ago
    I'll set up an autodraft. And thanks.
- hanapbuhay 9y ago
hanapbuhay 9y ago
When going, I try to remind myself that Disney parks are not designed to be seen in one day.
grafporno 9y ago
> Average wait times at the Disneyland Resort have been on the rise over the past few years, despite efforts by the park to ease crowding by raising ticket prices on peak demand days They raised prices because there was more demand, so they could make more money.
- fjdlwlv 9y ago
  Yes and no. They haven't maxed capacity, they get paid if people wait in line in the park. Selling fewer paak day tickets at higher prices is better experience for customers.
burntrelish1273 9y ago
Or do like Burning Man, Yosemite, Hamilton, etc... schedule sale of limited tickets well in advance. This has the added benefit of not taxing lower-income people and makes the experience much more scarce and something to look forward to.
kalleboo 9y ago
In Tokyo they just built a second park right next to the first one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_DisneySea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_DisneySea
- fjdlwlv 9y ago
  Disney world has several parks
  - kalleboo 9y ago
    I wonder if it's like roads - build more of them and you just get more visitors, not less congestion.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      It seems like if you're Disney that's totally fine too.
    - toast0 9y ago
      It doesn't seem surprising to me that if there is demand, but supply is capacity limited, it's hard to determine the full extent of the demand, and that when more capacity becomes available, the demand may exceed that as well. If you build more lanes where the roads are generally uncongested, you won't see much 'induced demand', because the there wasn't much demand for travel that was waiting for less congestion. If you build more lanes where the roads are generally congested, you will see the amount of time the roads are congested decrease when construction is done. However, most additional lanes are built in areas where there is strong population growth, leading to increased demand overtime anyway. For example, in southern california there was a project to add another lane to the I-405; when completed, the average duration of heavy congestion (rush hour) was reduced by several hours; but it's reasonable to expect that over time the congestion will increase again, just as it was before construction. It's reasonable to expect the same to happen for theme parks. There are a lot of capacity constraints preventing people from attending a Disney park, and you see that in the high attendance. It's probably difficult to predict how many additional parks you could build and still have good attendance, but building one at a time seems reasonable; being a bit hard to get in isn't terrible for Disney's brand perception.
lionhearted 9y ago
Does anyone know if Disney publishes any of their operations materials or data, a la Toyota? I didn't find any on a quick search; it'd be fascinating to dig into materials on how they do planning, capacity, traffic flows, etc.
- lentesta 9y ago
  They publish almost nothing publicly. Certainly nothing useful that I'm aware of.
neonhomer 9y ago
Growing up somewhat near Cedar Point I'm actually surprised at Disneyland's wait times aren't longer. These are from 2013, but wait times at Cedar Point are much worse! http://www.fodors.com/community/united-states/cedar-point-wait-times.cfm#comment-8222807 http://www.fodors.com/community/united-states/cedar-point-wa...
- lentesta 9y ago
  The total ride capacity of Disneyland is staggering. I'm not sure what Cedar Point's is, but I'd be surprised if it exceeded Disneyland's.
skywhopper 9y ago
I don't go to Disney parks very often but the "expanded ride reservation system" mentioned in this article has actually gone from good to terrible, and I think it has contributed to longer waits. The old Fastpass system required you to go visit a kiosk near the ride itself, and acquire a ticket for a specific time window later in the day, at which point you could go in via a shorter priority line. It worked great and was actually kind of fun. I understand they would want to get rid of the physical passes the machine printed out as the machines were probably maintenance nightmares, but they did more than that. They changed the system entirely to an app, which is fine in itself, but they eliminated the need to visit the ride area to get the pass, which is part of what made the system fair. Instead, you can schedule the passes ahead of time, even for future days, and of course passholders and people staying at the park get priority, so all the popular rides' Fastpasses are already gone by the time the typical visitor is even able to attempt to schedule anything, which means they will just have to wait in the regular long line because there's no way smooth out the demand across the day anymore, since all the scheduling happens for a select group ahead of time without requiring any physical commitment. In short, they sabotaged themselves, at least from this visitor's POV. Fastpass was one of my favorite bits of visiting Disney parks, but the new system is one of my LEAST favorite bits. Ah well.
- Kihashi 9y ago
  Maybe I just wasn't keyed into it, but the old system you described was still how it was at Disneyland when I visited a few weeks ago. I was super impressed with it.
- joezydeco 9y ago
  On my last visit to the Florida parks I used the MagicBands and FastPass+, which also allows (well, nearly demands) that you schedule rides and other events in advance. I agree with your observations, but wanted to add that all the scheduling really takes the spontaneity out of visiting the theme parks. The moment you need to keep checking your phone to determine if you can make the next ride window, it's not a vacation anymore. I understand the capacity of the parks has changed. I used to visit on 12/31 every year and understand what the MK is like with 100,000 people in it. But now it seems like the parks are running near capacity all the time.
dmh2000 9y ago
sounds like basic economics
paulpauper 9y ago
IF this were Uber Disney ..they would do surge pricing, and although the media would get mad but at least the lines would be shorter for those willing to pay
- InTheArena 9y ago
  Universal does. I loathe it.
- bobbygoodlatte 9y ago
  Disney does offer a VIP service. It's $400-600 an hour though. I'm not certain what the maximum group size is, I think 6-8: https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/events-tours/vip-tour-services/ https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/events-tours/vip-tour-serv...
leejoramo 9y ago
Please bring back the E-Ticket
Fjolsvith 9y ago
Back in '92, right after my discharge from the Air Force, I went to work for a copier company, who sent me to LA for training on how to repair copiers. It happened to be during the week of the LA Riots! My instructors told us to take the day off and they stayed home to protect their homes. I hopped the bus to Disneyland. There were no lines there that day. I rode Space Mountain about 12 times!
- justforFranz 9y ago
  This comment seems a bit white to me. Just guessing.
  - Fjolsvith 9y ago
    What do you mean by 'a bit white'?
tyrw 9y ago
"passholders and people staying at the park get priority" They didn't trade a faster system for a slower system, they started price descriminating to further maximize their profits. You just happen to be in the group that gets a slower experience.
justforFranz 9y ago
They probably need to create a phone app that tracks guests, and then offer a discount for people to install it on their phones. It might be the best way to divide the customer base into various profiles that could later serve for computer simulations & models for when different events happen: ticket price changes, rides opened & closed, etc.

114 points by t23 9y ago

BigChiefSmokem 9y ago

Disney, instead of using fancy "wait in line" tech just stop shoving so many people into the park. Problem solved.

kin 9y ago
This could definitely work if they changed how their annual passes worked. Right now, pass holders can come in whenever there is not a black out date, but Disney needs to first implement a system where days have to be booked in advance. Otherwise, first come first serve would unfairly block those traveling from out of town.

dkonofalski 9y ago

I always wondered why Disney doesn't open a third park somewhere square in the middle of the U.S. There's literally no competition with Disney parks as they're one-of-a-kind and it would both open more space at their other parks and bring in a huge segment of the population that doesn't go to their parks simply because of travel costs. Disneyland and Disney World are always busy. Look at the data. It might be time.

borne0 9y ago
population density maybe? for both customers and ensuring a steady supply of workers.
- Simulacra 9y ago
  I don't think it's population density. I grew up in this town called Augusta, Georgia. Every year there's this event that draws people from all over the world. Despite two hours, give or take, major cities, it draws them in. Another point of view is that areas with less population density are use to commuting long distances. Put something like a Disney park in the middle of Kansas and people WILL come, and within ten years the cities closest to that park will be booming too.
  - cuchoi 9y ago
    Maybe US Americans will go. But, as you say, there is an important share of the market that are internationals.
    - delinka 9y ago
      And they'll continue going to Orlando and LA. The idea isn't to replace the existing parks as a destination. Nor to offer something so different as to be yet another must-see Disney attraction. A copy of Orlando some place in the heartland would give access to more Americans.
    - hinkley 9y ago
      Well that argues for putting one outside of Fort Worth, TX, then. But the current hubs might not stay the only hubs. The new Boeing planes are rated for about 500 miles longer range, so that's going to put a lot of airports inland from the coasts as reachable from Europe and Asia, and a lot of coastal cities with smaller, cheaper airplanes.
  - privong 9y ago
    > I don't think it's population density. I grew up in this town called Augusta, Georgia. Every year there's this event that draws people from all over the world. Despite two hours, give or take, major cities, it draws them in. I think there's a big difference here – it's one thing to draw a large crowd for a single ~weeklong event, and another to do it continuously over the course of a year. I imagine the staffing requirements for Augusta National are different the week of the Masters versus the rest of the year (and I know that at least some of the additional staffing is done by volunteers). So the economics are wildly different. A Disneyland in the heart of the US would probably require fairly high staffing levels continuously. So this would require a fairly consistent attendance. Sure, there will be seasonal/holiday variations, but I doubt a theme park could survive the attendance amplitude swing that Augusta National sees between the Masters and the rest of the year.
Simulacra 9y ago
"Disney Heartland" right smack in the middle of Kansas would be huge, not just to the local economies, but also to the tax base, and tourism.
- xxpor 9y ago
  Too far from an airport.
- dkonofalski 9y ago
  Tornados would never let that work.
  - idlewords 9y ago
    Charge extra for the tornadoes. Call it a ride.
    - qbrass 9y ago
      Shuttle service to the land of Oz.
      - josiahpeters 9y ago
        I think they'll have to figure out the IP out first. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_The_Wizard_of_Oz_and_related_works_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_The_Wiza... Sounds like WB and Disney both have claims to different aspects. Interesting bit in the Wikipedia article with Disney having a copyright expert on set to help them choose a color of green that wasn't infringing.
    - dkonofalski 9y ago
      Thanks for my huge laugh today. ;)
- rich335z 9y ago
  Erratic weather might be a concern... large amounts of severe thunderstorms, hail, tornadoes in the Spring, and snow and ice in Fall/Winter could be quite disruptive. A little further east might alleviate some of that, though
th0ma5 9y ago
They tried: http://www.businessinsider.com/disney-america-theme-park-history-2016-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/disney-america-theme-park-his...
- dkonofalski 9y ago
  Not the same thing. Disney America was an American History-themed park that was going to be outside of Washington, DC. I mean a park like Disneyland or Disney World, but in Kansas or Texas or something like that.
  - mobilefriendly 9y ago
    Yeah Disney America was planned for Virginia horse country outside of DC, some of the most beautiful and wealthy real estate in the region. The NIMBY factor was fierce and the locals were DC elites who wanted no part of it.
    - tssva 9y ago
      It was more next door to horse country than actual horse country. The big rallying point was that it was going to encroach on the civil war battlefield nearby. Disney actually had a large buffer between the park and the battlefield. Now what would have been a preserved forest buffer is either a housing development or is planned to be one. In fact almost all the land that was going to be Disney America is all housing developments which have brought more people and traffic than Disney America would have and less jobs and tax revenue. Years before Disney America the same people that led the opposition to it blocked Legoland from opening in the eastern half of the same county. Again the area is now all housing developments and shopping centers.
- kurttheviking 9y ago
  I think the mistake with that was the focus: "the park was to have been dedicated to the history of the United States"[1]. Given the popularity of existing parks, I think it's fair to say people (especially those with kids) seeking a vacation at Disney want castles, Mickey Mouse, Space Mountain, etc. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney%27s_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney%27s_America
ultimoo 9y ago
I am guessing weather has something to do with this. Do other places in the center of the country have a similar all year mild weather as So Cal or Orlando? Overall this a great idea though, families could fly in to an airport close to the amusement parks, stay for a few days and directly fly out -- you're right in that there is little reason for an amusement park to be in one of the most expensive places in the country.
- dkonofalski 9y ago
  I thought about weather but there are places in Arizona and Colorado or even Texas that weather would not be a problem. It would almost definitely need to be in the southern half of the US, but I think it could still work.
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    Most of the US has a "continental climate", with no moderating effect from nearby oceans, so you end up with hot, humid summers, and overcast, biting winters. So there's a zone of decent climate, where it is far enough north to have just enough freeze days in winter to kill off the worst insects, and far enough south to have a decent selection of perennial landscaping plants. The northern contour of the zone approximates lines through these cities: Pueblo, Colorado Kansas City, Kansas/Missouri St. Louis, Missouri/Illinois Louisville, Kentucky/Indiana Cincinnati, Ohio/Kentucky Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania The southern contour roughly follows: Santa Fe, New Mexico Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Memphis, Tennessee/Arkansas Chattanooga, Tennessee/Georgia North of that zone, you can't really keep a park open year-round, through the winter, and south of it, the summer months get too brutal for tourist comfort, until you get close enough to the coasts to tame the local climate. A park near the confluence of the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers would have its pick of 5 different jurisdictions, decent climate, and access to nigh-unlimited water and TVA hydro and nuclear power. And you could reasonably buy up a lot of land cheaply without the locals figuring out who is doing it or why, just as it was done in central Florida.
    - idlewords 9y ago
Aloha 9y ago
Weather is the largest issue - a Disney park will generate its own traffic flows - Orlando was not a population center in 1971 (when WDW opened). You could do a park somewhere in Texas - the weather is hospitable, but I dont think Disney is interested in the investment to do so right now.
- dave5104 9y ago
  They just finished building Shanghai Disneyland, which apparently caused a few budget issues in the Parks & Resorts division, so I think you're right about a third US location being off the table for now. Disney also recently bought out the owners of Disneyland Paris, so they'll probably be putting some investment into that park as well (since it's sorely needed--DLP is considered one of the lesser Disney parks).
  - InTheArena 9y ago
    Which is a bit unfortunate. I visited it for the first time this year, and absolutely loved it. The Hollywood studios there is very “lightly” themed, but the magic kingdom there was absolutely wonderful. It reminded me of what Disneyland was like in my youth. The pirates land there, as well as the Thunder mountain close are absolutely the best versions that I have seen. Disney’s been bailing out the French corporation that theoretically owns half of DLP for a while. That structure was difficult to work with, but they also didn’t have the revenue that Disneyland Paris has (where they have a similar structure).
    - Aloha 9y ago
      DLP has been consistently underperforming when compared to the other parks. You are correct though, it is one of the most beautiful.
      - raverbashing 9y ago
        Apart from managerial issues, I wonder if weather has something to do with it (it rains a lot in Paris) South of France or Spain might have been a better pick but of course there's the issue of access
InTheArena 9y ago
Disclaimer - Disney annual passholder here. In terms of where to locate the park, Disney was a big early believer in a analytical approach. They hired SRI to determine the best location for Disneyland back in the 1950s. They came up with a amazing amount of operational and systems research that we use now. The big factors where climate, access to a huge population base, and multiple access to freeways. When it came to Disney World, the factor where those, plus the ability to buy large amount of land before anyone was aware of it, and could drive up prices with speculation. Disney has tried a number of different strategies in the past to make parks more accessible - including the idea of building a Disneyland on a boat, that would travel the world, and stop in various ports for months, before packing up and sailing to the next trip. Most of the demand for Disney growth wise is international, with Brazil probably next to get a park. In terms of line waits, there are two things at play - one Disney has realized that they have been leaving money at the table. Contrary to this article, the vast majortity of the excess demand is not single day visitors at Disneyland, but rather season pass holders in California. This is why they have jacked up the cost for annual passes a ton. I was listening to a podcast recently that postulated that as much as 45% of the daily visitors to Disneyland might be annual pass holders. Expect the cost to go way up - it’s getting close to double the cost of a Disneyland pass compared to a Disney World pass. The other thing is that Disney is putting massive capital into the parks, to grow them. They just opened Avatar land in Animal kingdom, but the most exciting are the new STar Wars Land, Toy Story Land, Epcot overhaul, and marvel land in California. Disney will be adding a ton of capacity, but they are trying to raise ticket prices to offset.
- pfranz 9y ago
  I believe the reason is because they started doing payment plans for annual passes so sales shot up. I'm sure the capital costs are crazy for building a new park, but with all the demand I'm still a bit surprised there's no talk of building a Disney park in the middle of the U.S. They appear to operate very independently (the fact WDW has had fastpass+ and magic bands for years and DL is just now announcing a completely different system, Maxpass). You mentioned demand internationally. Disneyland Paris is the only park outside of the U.S. wholly owned by Disney. Not sure if it was a concession (I could see that for China) or as a risk-sharing thing. I would imagine Disney would want to own 100% of any new park if possible.
forgotpw1123 9y ago
Weather is a huge issue for Disney parks. Both are busy all year round and a third park would be no different. It makes no sense to open parks that can only make money part of the year. The data shows the busiest times are December, March, and May so it would be really stupid to put a park anywhere those months have bad weather. This leaves the South and West Coast. Dallas and Oklahoma City are the only realistic places for another park that's easier to get to from the Midwest.
- blktiger 9y ago
  There are plenty of other amusement parks across the country that aren't open all year, why does a Disney park need to be open all year?
briandear 9y ago
They own several hundred acres slightly northwest of Houston. It’s a brilliant location: major airport hub, gateway city to Latin America, solid (but often hot) weather, far enough from the coast to mitigate serious hurricane risk, low costs, large labor pool. But it takes years and years for these things to happen, if they ever happen. The land purchase was probably 9 years ago, but with these companies, the price of that sort of land is often just a rounding error, so it’s possible they’ve bought land all over the place to keep options open.
losteverything 9y ago
If you want to see your grandchildren more often live near Disney world. 22 visits in 18 years. If grandparents lived in st Louis i doubt each spring they would get a visit ( as the child dictates vacations often)
- magic_beans 9y ago
  Sounds like spoiled children to me. Parents have a responsibility to ensure a strong relationship between children and grandparents.
  - losteverything 9y ago
    With greater income comes greater mobility. Parents retiring to a place more than a short drive away has unintended consequences. Or children moving far away for employment. In this particular case the gparents moving near WDW made this outcome: post child rearing, only 35 separate visits for the rest of their lifetime (25+ yrs) each visit required plane trip & time off. It was the gparents choice to move so far away..... And WDW was a wonderful place to share our time together.
    - cableshaft 9y ago
      Better than grandparents moving states away to Arizona. We visited them twice in about 25 years (although they visited us several times, so we still saw them once every year or two). My other grandparents lived in the same city, so I got to experience both near and far. I definitely saw the ones in town a lot more often (at least 30 times a year, I think).
- ourmandave 9y ago
  Or like most of my retired neighbors, live nearby and offer to babysit. You'll get 18 visits in 22 days.
  - JshWright 9y ago
    There's a reason we bought a house directly across the street from my parents (that reason was that my wife was pregnant with twins...)
gwbas1c 9y ago
Because no one lives in the center of the US; most of us live close to the coasts. It's easier to travel to LA or Orlando than to the center of the country.
- mercutio2 9y ago
  I live on the coast, but the notion that no one lives in the Midwest is absurd and derisive. About two thirds of the US population live in coastal states, but that includes gulf coast states which are pretty central on the east west axis. That still leaves a third of the population, with the Chicago metro area being one of the largest and densest catch basins.
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    The Great Lakes megalopolis has more people in it than the Boston-to-DC Northeast megalopolis.
- dkonofalski 9y ago
  That's, quite possibly, one of the silliest things I've ever heard. At least 50% of the U.S. population doesn't live near the coasts.
  - mercutio2 9y ago
    Surprisingly, when I went to debunk the original ridiculous statement, I found that if you count the gulf coast, it’s only a third of the US population that doesn’t live in an ocean-adjacent state. “No one” is still the silliest thing I’ve heard for a while, though!
- DerekL 9y ago
  Plenty of people live all over the eastern half of the US. It's only the western half that is mostly empty except for the coast. Here's the population by time zone, in millions: Eastern: 150.2 (47.1%) Central: 92.3 (29.0%) Mountain: 21.3 (6.7%) Pacific: 53.0 (16.6%) https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-the-US-population-lives-in-the-Eastern-Central-and-Pacific-timezones-respectively https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-the-US-population-l...

dsun179 9y ago

Clickbait-title but actually great content. Never seen this before.

fiatjaf 9y ago

Please, what are the results? There's too much useless text behind that clickbait headline.

nmstoker 9y ago
How can you tell it's useless if you didn't read it?!
kin 9y ago
The results are posted further down the article. You're right though, title is most definitely click bait. The notion of raising prices for the sake of shorter wait times is barely an assumption.

Simulacra 9y ago

It looks like by the article raising ticket prices did not reduce the number of people into the park. I think they should have just capped the number of people in the park at one time, in addition to the increased ticket prices. I feel like Disney is a melting pot. It's affordable at some time interval for just about every family. If the prices keep going up it could risk being less of that melting pot, and more of just the pot with more money.

Klathmon 9y ago
They already do limit the number of people in the park, it just only tends to get hit a handful of times a year. And for good reason IMO. I don't know about you, but if I planned a vacation and then wasn't allowed in the park during that time I'd be pissed, even more if the reason was so that those who did get in could have less wait times and I couldn't even get into the park to experience it.
- eof 9y ago
  It would be pretty straight forward to buy tickets in advance for a specific day.
  - pxeboot 9y ago
    Exactly. They already sell tickets online, but they are not for a specific day.
  - Klathmon 9y ago
    But now you are just making it so only people that plan it many many months out can get in. And it comes with it's own slew of problems. Like you'd need to either have hourly booking, or you'd need to assume when people are going to be going for the day, and you could still just end up with an empty park at some times, and crazy long lines at others. Combined with the fact that "park hopping" is really common, especially when you don't have a huge amount of days in a vacation there (or don't want to blow a whole day on one of the smaller parks). I'm not convinced it's as straightforward as you'd think. Their solution of the "fast pass" system they have in florida is I think the best of both worlds. You can "schedule" time for a ride months out, but they still let as many people as they safely can in the park.

amelius 9y ago

If only customers were so forgiving if their webpage didn't load within 500 milliseconds.

petervandijck 9y ago
If only our webpages were as awesome as Disneyland :)

fourmii 9y ago

Do they do staggered ticket pricing based on what attractions are accessible? Last time my family was passing through LA, I looked into taking my 3 and 7 year olds. We could only see the one ticket price. Thought it was just too expensive considering the younger kid wouldn't have been able to nor would have wanted to ride most of the attractions. It would have been nice to bring them just to poke around...

dave5104 9y ago
Kids 2 and under go in for free, but that's about it.

ikeyany 9y ago

> During the first month after it opened, the new Guardians attraction had an average wait time of 93 minutes, with the maximum wait time climbing to five hours, according to the data. Words escape me.

dave5104 9y ago
One thing I didn't see mentioned in the article are demographics for visitors. Disneyland has always had a very local crowd, which is why they do things differently from Walt Disney World in Florida. By "local crowd", I mean you get a lot more people with season passes who go just for dinner in the park and then leave. Waiting up to 5 hours for the Guardians attraction would be a novelty to them since they've literally done everything else in the park many times over.
InTheArena 9y ago
That’s usual opening day insanity. Avatar land, at Animal Kingdom in Florida had a four hour wait - to get into the land to say nothing of rides. It always takes a while to get the operations side figured out. At Disneyland it’s worse, because they don’t have fastpass plus (which allows Disney to schedule a ton of rides, and also distributed traffic through the park). It’s also that it was unexpected. Disney was counting on Avatar land being the big opening weekend thing, and instead Guardian stole it’s thunder a bit. From everyone I have talked to, the ride is a blast, but I haven’t been on it yet.
wccrawford 9y ago
The same thing happened at Harry Potter for Universal. Fans are insane. Having said that, I was there for the second day of Harry Potter and waited in the 3 hr line to get into the HP area, and then another 1.5 hr line to actually ride the ride. I was there with a friend, and we chatted the whole time and it was a lot of fun. I probably wouldn't do it again for a new ride anywhere, but it was a neat experience once.

ww520 9y ago

They have already capped the people going into the park. People with single-day passes can be turned away at the gate if the park is full. Two-day or multi-day pass got priority.

habosa 9y ago
Link? I can't believe if you have a one-day trip you can really get turned away at the gate.
- wccrawford 9y ago
  http://www.disneydining.com/happens-disney-park-closed-due-reaching-capacity/ http://www.disneydining.com/happens-disney-park-closed-due-r...

Aloha 9y ago

Former Disneyland CM (Cast Member) here. Burgeoning wait times, and park overcrowding is (in my opinion) largely a result of Annual Pass sales. The AP's come out, clog up the park and make it less hospitable to non-AP guests.

nf05papsjfVbc 9y ago
"clog up" seems a bit strong given that they actually paid for the entrance and are just using a service they paid for.
- Aloha 9y ago
  Yes, they did - but... They don't buy (lots of) stuff - AP's often will drop by for half a day and eat off property, but yet will still plop down in a restaurant and take up table space. They also don't purchase much merch either. They travel inefficiently - AP's often will come to meet up with friends, and like most southern californians, they don't usually carpool - to the point that in 2015, Disney almost stopped selling parking with the AP because of capacity reasons. So I think clog up is accurate here. AP's in general use the park in very different ways then the people who are vacationing at the park - Disney has made it clear that its primary market is the vacationer - but they cant drop the AP system without alienating a bunch of folks.

k2enemy 9y ago

If the strategy of avoiding long lines captures your interest, you'll probably enjoy the El Farol Bar problem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Farol_Bar_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Farol_Bar_problem) and more general minority games.

mrbonner 9y ago

I'd like to take my little girl there but after hearing wait time I am kind of withdraw to the idea. Does someone have any tip to visiting DL to minimize the suffering for us adults (i.e time of year, what ride/fun things are worth the wait, etc..)

sosuke 9y ago
Get the speed pass band thingy. Totally worth it and it pretty much kills the wait times. At least it was that way when I had gone.
- dave5104 9y ago
  The Disney MagicBands? Those are only available in Walt Disney World in Florida, not Disneyland in Anaheim. Anaheim only has paper FastPasses, which are the same concept, but a little more difficult to manage since you need to run around the park getting them. MaxPass for $10 extra per person per day is coming soon, however, and will let you book FastPasses via their app, but it's a shame it's an additional cost.
- InTheArena 9y ago
  That’s universal, not Disney. Unless you are talking the magic bands (which give you three rides at assigned times). Those are great, and free, but are very limited, especially with attractions that just opened.
InTheArena 9y ago
Touring plans.com They use mathematical optimization techniques to predict the best order to visit things. Typically cuts Several hours of waiting out. IT’s well worth it. (Len Testa, I will DM you for my referral check ;-)
- lentesta 9y ago
  I'll set up an autodraft. And thanks.
hanapbuhay 9y ago

hanapbuhay 9y ago

When going, I try to remind myself that Disney parks are not designed to be seen in one day.

grafporno 9y ago

> Average wait times at the Disneyland Resort have been on the rise over the past few years, despite efforts by the park to ease crowding by raising ticket prices on peak demand days They raised prices because there was more demand, so they could make more money.

fjdlwlv 9y ago
Yes and no. They haven't maxed capacity, they get paid if people wait in line in the park. Selling fewer paak day tickets at higher prices is better experience for customers.

burntrelish1273 9y ago

Or do like Burning Man, Yosemite, Hamilton, etc... schedule sale of limited tickets well in advance. This has the added benefit of not taxing lower-income people and makes the experience much more scarce and something to look forward to.

kalleboo 9y ago

In Tokyo they just built a second park right next to the first one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_DisneySea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_DisneySea

fjdlwlv 9y ago
Disney world has several parks
- kalleboo 9y ago
  I wonder if it's like roads - build more of them and you just get more visitors, not less congestion.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    It seems like if you're Disney that's totally fine too.
  - toast0 9y ago
    It doesn't seem surprising to me that if there is demand, but supply is capacity limited, it's hard to determine the full extent of the demand, and that when more capacity becomes available, the demand may exceed that as well. If you build more lanes where the roads are generally uncongested, you won't see much 'induced demand', because the there wasn't much demand for travel that was waiting for less congestion. If you build more lanes where the roads are generally congested, you will see the amount of time the roads are congested decrease when construction is done. However, most additional lanes are built in areas where there is strong population growth, leading to increased demand overtime anyway. For example, in southern california there was a project to add another lane to the I-405; when completed, the average duration of heavy congestion (rush hour) was reduced by several hours; but it's reasonable to expect that over time the congestion will increase again, just as it was before construction. It's reasonable to expect the same to happen for theme parks. There are a lot of capacity constraints preventing people from attending a Disney park, and you see that in the high attendance. It's probably difficult to predict how many additional parks you could build and still have good attendance, but building one at a time seems reasonable; being a bit hard to get in isn't terrible for Disney's brand perception.

lionhearted 9y ago

Does anyone know if Disney publishes any of their operations materials or data, a la Toyota? I didn't find any on a quick search; it'd be fascinating to dig into materials on how they do planning, capacity, traffic flows, etc.

lentesta 9y ago
They publish almost nothing publicly. Certainly nothing useful that I'm aware of.

neonhomer 9y ago

Growing up somewhat near Cedar Point I'm actually surprised at Disneyland's wait times aren't longer. These are from 2013, but wait times at Cedar Point are much worse! http://www.fodors.com/community/united-states/cedar-point-wait-times.cfm#comment-8222807 http://www.fodors.com/community/united-states/cedar-point-wa...

lentesta 9y ago
The total ride capacity of Disneyland is staggering. I'm not sure what Cedar Point's is, but I'd be surprised if it exceeded Disneyland's.

skywhopper 9y ago

I don't go to Disney parks very often but the "expanded ride reservation system" mentioned in this article has actually gone from good to terrible, and I think it has contributed to longer waits. The old Fastpass system required you to go visit a kiosk near the ride itself, and acquire a ticket for a specific time window later in the day, at which point you could go in via a shorter priority line. It worked great and was actually kind of fun. I understand they would want to get rid of the physical passes the machine printed out as the machines were probably maintenance nightmares, but they did more than that. They changed the system entirely to an app, which is fine in itself, but they eliminated the need to visit the ride area to get the pass, which is part of what made the system fair. Instead, you can schedule the passes ahead of time, even for future days, and of course passholders and people staying at the park get priority, so all the popular rides' Fastpasses are already gone by the time the typical visitor is even able to attempt to schedule anything, which means they will just have to wait in the regular long line because there's no way smooth out the demand across the day anymore, since all the scheduling happens for a select group ahead of time without requiring any physical commitment. In short, they sabotaged themselves, at least from this visitor's POV. Fastpass was one of my favorite bits of visiting Disney parks, but the new system is one of my LEAST favorite bits. Ah well.

Kihashi 9y ago
Maybe I just wasn't keyed into it, but the old system you described was still how it was at Disneyland when I visited a few weeks ago. I was super impressed with it.
joezydeco 9y ago
On my last visit to the Florida parks I used the MagicBands and FastPass+, which also allows (well, nearly demands) that you schedule rides and other events in advance. I agree with your observations, but wanted to add that all the scheduling really takes the spontaneity out of visiting the theme parks. The moment you need to keep checking your phone to determine if you can make the next ride window, it's not a vacation anymore. I understand the capacity of the parks has changed. I used to visit on 12/31 every year and understand what the MK is like with 100,000 people in it. But now it seems like the parks are running near capacity all the time.

dmh2000 9y ago

sounds like basic economics

paulpauper 9y ago

IF this were Uber Disney ..they would do surge pricing, and although the media would get mad but at least the lines would be shorter for those willing to pay

InTheArena 9y ago
Universal does. I loathe it.
bobbygoodlatte 9y ago
Disney does offer a VIP service. It's $400-600 an hour though. I'm not certain what the maximum group size is, I think 6-8: https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/events-tours/vip-tour-services/ https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/events-tours/vip-tour-serv...

leejoramo 9y ago

Please bring back the E-Ticket

Fjolsvith 9y ago

Back in '92, right after my discharge from the Air Force, I went to work for a copier company, who sent me to LA for training on how to repair copiers. It happened to be during the week of the LA Riots! My instructors told us to take the day off and they stayed home to protect their homes. I hopped the bus to Disneyland. There were no lines there that day. I rode Space Mountain about 12 times!

justforFranz 9y ago
This comment seems a bit white to me. Just guessing.
- Fjolsvith 9y ago
  What do you mean by 'a bit white'?

tyrw 9y ago

"passholders and people staying at the park get priority" They didn't trade a faster system for a slower system, they started price descriminating to further maximize their profits. You just happen to be in the group that gets a slower experience.

justforFranz 9y ago

They probably need to create a phone app that tracks guests, and then offer a discount for people to install it on their phones. It might be the best way to divide the customer base into various profiles that could later serve for computer simulations & models for when different events happen: ticket price changes, rides opened & closed, etc.