5 ms·

Hmm, I guess 'extrovert' is an acceptable spelling nowadays, even though it's the wrong Latin root.

by threepipeproblm 9y ago

amelius 9y ago
What is the correct spelling?
- threepipeproblm 9y ago
  Eventually the correct spelling is driven by usage, and 'extrovert' is currently listed in dictionaries so... it's correct. Historically the term was 'extravert' in psych literature. I feel like more technical usage probably still leans that way.
  - Bakary 9y ago
    The matching vowels make it a better spelling.
    - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
      Do you mean matching each other or matching pronounciation?
- Fezzik 9y ago
  Extravert. Extra- meaning out of; outside.
  - tripa 9y ago
    As compared to "introvert"?
    - raattgift 9y ago
      Yes, intro- is a Latin prefix meaning "to the inside" while extra- means "to the outside". The "-vert" is from the Latin verb "vertere", meaning "to turn". Adding Latin prefixes to "vertere" leads to such words as "to avert" (a- from Latin "ab-", meaning "from"), "to evert" (from "ex-" which means "out"; compare "extra-" above), "to invert" (from "in-" meaning "into"; compare "intro-" above); "reverse" (an adjective meaning 'opposite' from "re-" meaning "back"); "transverse" (an adjective meaning 'crosswise' from "trans-" meaning "across"); and so forth. It's useful to compare "in-" vs "intro-" and "ex-" vs "extra-". The "-tra-" and "-tro-" infixes are essentially the same, but Latin writers and speakers inflected them historically. English inherited this in such words as "introduction", "extradition", "introspection", "extraordinary", and "extravagant". Finally in modern biological and medicinal jargon it is common to use "intra-" (with an "a") as "within": "intracellular" (within cells; compare with "intercellular", "between cells"), "intradural" (within the dura mater in the spinal cord), "intramolecular" (e.g. internal forces holding together the shape of a molecule, or the atoms a molecule comprises), and so forth. Outside those technical settings, "intra-" is exceedingly rare. One example is "intramural" ("within the walls", usually used to describe a competition between different teams of students at a single school, however the word has use in medicine as well, the walls being those of a cell, blood vessel, or other hollow organ, and the medical use likely came first).
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
pepve 9y ago
Both "extrovert" and "extravert" are correct. Contemporary language use does not always care about latin, however sorry I am for that. But the author of this post goes even further, and uses both spellings in the same sentence! In extravert-introvert pairs, extroverts report on greater closeness than introverts That can't be right...
- threepipeproblm 9y ago
  Okay I did some digging Google n-grams isn't all that sympathetic to my account, in showing a long history for 'extrovert' and suggests 'extravert' is actively dying out. But the history may not go back far enough: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-difference-between-extraversion-and-extroversion/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-dif... 'Folklore has it that when Carl Jung was once asked which was the correct spelling—ExtrAvert or ExtrOvert—Jung's secretary wrote back something like, "Dr. Jung says it's ExtrAverted, because ExtrOverted is just bad latin."' [...] 'According to the Oxford English Dictionary, "The original spelling 'Extravert' is now rare in general use but is found in technical use in psychology." That's correct. If you look at scientific journal articles, virtually every paper uses the spelling ExtrAvert.'
- jaggederest 9y ago
  I believe in this case spelling is mimicking pronunciation. In my accent, at least, I pronounce the phrase 'extr_vert-introvert' with an open A, contrasting to the pursed O of introvert. But if I say the word 'extr_verts', by itself, I pronounce it with an O, identical to 'introvert'. It's difficult because for me, at least, in my accent, both are degrading to an unstressed vowel anyway, so it's a fine gradation.
- 35bge57dtjku 9y ago
  Is intravert correct? I have to know if it's that symmetrical.
  - threepipeproblm 9y ago
    No, 'intravert' is not correct AFAIK
mmmpop 9y ago
In English, spelling is so seemingly arbitrary at times that I just gave up and quit caring so much. Judgment? Judgement? Who cares?! I won't budge on my thoughts on the importance of proper grammar though.
- collyw 9y ago
  Grammar pedants are the worst. It generally isn't very important if people understand what is being said. There are a few edge cases, but in general its pretty obvious.
  - qb45 9y ago
    it's
    - collyw 9y ago
      my point exactly
      - qb45 9y ago
        Dunno, when you make egregious errors like that we can't help understanding not only what you meant but also some things you likely didn't mean.
        mmmpop 9y ago
        It's been pointed out to me lately that "prescriptive grammar" is apparently classist/racist, which is strange considering I grew up dirt poor in Appalachia but still bothered to learn the difference in "who" and "whom". In languages like French it's a crucial understanding but English got lazy and for whatever reason, direct object pronouns are a tripping point for many students of a foreign language. Astounding.
        qb45 9y ago
        You must be new to this planet. It surely is. Caring about language (caring about anything, really) is an honest signal of status, whether you like it or not. Inevitably, some people will try to slave-moralize it away. If some social/ethnic/sex/... minority with inferiority complexes jumps on this bandwagon, suddenly you may find yourself caring about a thing whose ignorance some social scientists somewhere have found to be correlated with holy cows. Proposed solution: stop caring about everything besides making all people feel good about themselves.

Hmm, I guess 'extrovert' is an acceptable spelling nowadays, even though it's the wrong Latin root.

amelius 9y ago

What is the correct spelling?

threepipeproblm 9y ago
Eventually the correct spelling is driven by usage, and 'extrovert' is currently listed in dictionaries so... it's correct. Historically the term was 'extravert' in psych literature. I feel like more technical usage probably still leans that way.
- Bakary 9y ago
  The matching vowels make it a better spelling.
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    Do you mean matching each other or matching pronounciation?
Fezzik 9y ago
Extravert. Extra- meaning out of; outside.
- tripa 9y ago
  As compared to "introvert"?
  - raattgift 9y ago
    Yes, intro- is a Latin prefix meaning "to the inside" while extra- means "to the outside". The "-vert" is from the Latin verb "vertere", meaning "to turn". Adding Latin prefixes to "vertere" leads to such words as "to avert" (a- from Latin "ab-", meaning "from"), "to evert" (from "ex-" which means "out"; compare "extra-" above), "to invert" (from "in-" meaning "into"; compare "intro-" above); "reverse" (an adjective meaning 'opposite' from "re-" meaning "back"); "transverse" (an adjective meaning 'crosswise' from "trans-" meaning "across"); and so forth. It's useful to compare "in-" vs "intro-" and "ex-" vs "extra-". The "-tra-" and "-tro-" infixes are essentially the same, but Latin writers and speakers inflected them historically. English inherited this in such words as "introduction", "extradition", "introspection", "extraordinary", and "extravagant". Finally in modern biological and medicinal jargon it is common to use "intra-" (with an "a") as "within": "intracellular" (within cells; compare with "intercellular", "between cells"), "intradural" (within the dura mater in the spinal cord), "intramolecular" (e.g. internal forces holding together the shape of a molecule, or the atoms a molecule comprises), and so forth. Outside those technical settings, "intra-" is exceedingly rare. One example is "intramural" ("within the walls", usually used to describe a competition between different teams of students at a single school, however the word has use in medicine as well, the walls being those of a cell, blood vessel, or other hollow organ, and the medical use likely came first).
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

pepve 9y ago

Both "extrovert" and "extravert" are correct. Contemporary language use does not always care about latin, however sorry I am for that. But the author of this post goes even further, and uses both spellings in the same sentence! In extravert-introvert pairs, extroverts report on greater closeness than introverts That can't be right...

threepipeproblm 9y ago
Okay I did some digging Google n-grams isn't all that sympathetic to my account, in showing a long history for 'extrovert' and suggests 'extravert' is actively dying out. But the history may not go back far enough: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-difference-between-extraversion-and-extroversion/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-dif... 'Folklore has it that when Carl Jung was once asked which was the correct spelling—ExtrAvert or ExtrOvert—Jung's secretary wrote back something like, "Dr. Jung says it's ExtrAverted, because ExtrOverted is just bad latin."' [...] 'According to the Oxford English Dictionary, "The original spelling 'Extravert' is now rare in general use but is found in technical use in psychology." That's correct. If you look at scientific journal articles, virtually every paper uses the spelling ExtrAvert.'
jaggederest 9y ago
I believe in this case spelling is mimicking pronunciation. In my accent, at least, I pronounce the phrase 'extr_vert-introvert' with an open A, contrasting to the pursed O of introvert. But if I say the word 'extr_verts', by itself, I pronounce it with an O, identical to 'introvert'. It's difficult because for me, at least, in my accent, both are degrading to an unstressed vowel anyway, so it's a fine gradation.
35bge57dtjku 9y ago
Is intravert correct? I have to know if it's that symmetrical.
- threepipeproblm 9y ago
  No, 'intravert' is not correct AFAIK

mmmpop 9y ago

In English, spelling is so seemingly arbitrary at times that I just gave up and quit caring so much. Judgment? Judgement? Who cares?! I won't budge on my thoughts on the importance of proper grammar though.

collyw 9y ago
Grammar pedants are the worst. It generally isn't very important if people understand what is being said. There are a few edge cases, but in general its pretty obvious.
- qb45 9y ago
  it's
  - collyw 9y ago
    my point exactly
    - qb45 9y ago
      Dunno, when you make egregious errors like that we can't help understanding not only what you meant but also some things you likely didn't mean.
      - mmmpop 9y ago
        It's been pointed out to me lately that "prescriptive grammar" is apparently classist/racist, which is strange considering I grew up dirt poor in Appalachia but still bothered to learn the difference in "who" and "whom". In languages like French it's a crucial understanding but English got lazy and for whatever reason, direct object pronouns are a tripping point for many students of a foreign language. Astounding.
        qb45 9y ago
        You must be new to this planet. It surely is. Caring about language (caring about anything, really) is an honest signal of status, whether you like it or not. Inevitably, some people will try to slave-moralize it away. If some social/ethnic/sex/... minority with inferiority complexes jumps on this bandwagon, suddenly you may find yourself caring about a thing whose ignorance some social scientists somewhere have found to be correlated with holy cows. Proposed solution: stop caring about everything besides making all people feel good about themselves.