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Real estate site Redfin files for IPO

246 points by realdlee 9y ago

deleted 9y ago
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everybodyknows 9y ago
Guess how many California-licensed real estate BROKERS Redfin employs? The answer is here: http://www2.dre.ca.gov/PublicASP/pplinfo.asp?License_id=01521930 http://www2.dre.ca.gov/PublicASP/pplinfo.asp?License_id=0152... A total of six BROKERS. Helped out by 528 SALESPERSONS, who have little or no financial responsibility. A curious fact that no RE agent or Realtor will tell you: Under California law, the terms "real estate agent" or "Realtor" have no significance.
debacle 9y ago
Having worked in the real estate industry for a time, it's ripe for disruption. Redfin is going to have a problem when it paves the way for a flat rate competitor, but right now it's doing a massive service to buyers and sellers.
- maguirre 9y ago
  seriously curious as I am about to pay 10k+ for selling my house. what are they doing that is so special?
  - dpark 9y ago
    Cutting the fees in half.
    - vadym909 9y ago
      cutting the fees by 25% actually. Redfin acts as the buyer or seller's broker and only gives you back half of their 3% commission. The other side's broker still gets their 3%. So you pay 4.5% instead of 6%.
      - Danihan 9y ago
        How does a web site get licensed as a real estate broker, anyway?
        vadym909 9y ago
        They are registered brokers with a website- just like Windermere. They took this path vs being just a website like Zillow.
        bacontacos 9y ago
        zillow is much more than a website if you're an agent
        hkmurakami 9y ago
        They have physical brokers in each region (I think the unit is more granular than each state, iirc?)
        apendleton 9y ago
        Yeah I think it's by metro area. I live in DC and the same office handles DC and the Maryland and Virginia DC suburbs, and I think many of the agents are cross-licensed.
        hkmurakami 9y ago
        They have physical brokers in each region (I think the unit is more granular than each state, iirc?)
      - dpark 9y ago
        That only accounts for the selling side, though. You also get a refund as a buyer and if you are buying and selling with Redfin (not uncommon), the savings are substantial. They actually only charge 1% commission as the selling agent now, too, so vs a typical 6% combined commission, they save 33% for the seller. (Assuming just a sale) Redfin doesn't seem to disclose how they calculate the refund anymore, though, so I'm not sure how much that works out to be. Seems to be around half a percent, so lower than it used to be. All combined, it's close to half of the traditional fees that they either refund or don't collect.
  - bdamm 9y ago
    I think buyers could brave buying a home without a realtor. It's a little crazy but doable. Selling is another matter entirely. If you would like the peace of mind to know that your home is actually in your past once the money is in your bank account, use a broker. Having your past home haunt your future can be a miserable prospect.
    - mac01021 9y ago
      Why can't my attorney provide me with that assurance while he's taking me through the closing process? What extra thing is the broker doing?
      - harrumph 9y ago
        >What extra thing is the broker doing? The broker is causing the closing to happen by finding and satisfying the buyer along with the buyer's many, many issues with most properties.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
notadoc 9y ago
I'm still waiting for someone to completely eliminate the realtor and charge a reasonable flat fee ($1000?) to buy/sell a house and handle all the related details. Why do we need realtors at this point? Everyone finds houses themselves online nowadays. Why does anyone need to pay a whopper commission to some middle-man?
- fananta 9y ago
  I agree with your point, but realtors are protected but layers of legislation. In many areas the realtor groups almost operate like the taxi cartels.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- rhodysurf 9y ago
  I used to think the same way, but then I bought my first house and my realtor was insanely helpful. The entire process is filled with random quagmires that I would have never known how to manage otherwise. Someone with more experience may be more able to go it alone obviously, but my realtor was invaluable.
  - japhyr 9y ago
    I agree. I live in a small isolated town, and I thought realtors were artificially increasing the home prices (not values, but prices) in the small pool of housing available here. But their local knowledge was invaluable in both buying and selling a home. That said, if a buyer and seller agree on a sale independently of any realtor here, we can go to a local realtor and they'll happily facilitate the sale for a flat fee of around $1000. I've done that once, and had a number of friends who also did so. Most of the realtors recognize that the bulk of their commission comes from the listing and marketing process, and the paperwork is just something they know how to do correctly. $1000 is a fair price for knowing that's all being done correctly and fairly.
    - 9y ago
ransom1538 9y ago
Redfin with its smaller cut of RE transactions on the seller side combined with the ability to circumvent MLS with it's own listing system could be the begining of the end for agents.
- saimiam 9y ago
  While I don't disagree with you, Redfin has been in business since 2004. 13 years is a long time to take to kill off realtors. I'm in the process of selling my place and I'm using a realtor (who nearly matched Redfin's seller commission rate). The Redfin agent I first spoke to proposed a generic, templatized method to sell my property - list on N realtor sites, email my contacts, take nice pics - while the realtor I went with lives two doors down from me, knew the quirks of the HOA, had working knowledge of what potential buyers were looking for in my community based on recent deals he had been part of.
  - vadym909 9y ago
    I agree. Realtors won't get killed- they'll just have their commissions reduced. I've bought a house through Redfin which was easy enough, but used an agent who agreed to Redfin level fees, but was much more knowledgeable and better at selling my house. From dressing up the house, doing open houses to following up with buyers, to negotiating. Redfin couldn't match him with their inexperienced agents/helpers, high volume and cookie cutter methods that are more suited to hot real estate markets where there's not much for realtors to do.
    - GFischer 9y ago
      So the mere existence of Redfin has lowered their fees. Good for you :) and an example of the market at work.
bkjelden 9y ago
I hope this company sees nothing but success. I bought my house through Redfin last year, and not only did I save ~$5k in commissions compared to a conventional realtor, I also felt the process was much smoother and more pleasant than other times I've interacted with a conventional realtor. It's simply absurd that in an era where any buyer can view photos of a house for sale online real estate agents still expect to receive 6% commission on the sale of a house.
- Danihan 9y ago
  Well, technically the brokers get most of that.
  - deelowe 9y ago
    Actually, they typically get 1/2.
  - jdross 9y ago
    Many brokerages get nothing except a flat fee per transaction and a "desk fee". Some take nothing at all if you're a top producer and refer your clients to their title and mortgage operations. HomeSmart is the largest, I believe
    - dgfgfdagasdfgfa 9y ago
      Is this true in high-demand, low-supply markets? I've found the brokerages get much more greedy in these situations. See: Seattle, San Francisco, NYC.
- existencebox 9y ago
  Let me offer a different viewpoint. Redfin absolutely serves a purpose, but in some markets, notably for my case very hot markets, it's a significant impediment. I really wanted redfin to work, shopping in seattle 2 years ago. I tried for almost a year, but they would consistently be not as contactable or prompt as we wanted, and gave us very erroneous advice when it came to crafting offers on some houses we wanted. As a result we lost out on houses when we could have been competitive. Eventually we got a very solid realtor, who was aggressive in finding us houses that would slip through our normal searches (the house we ended up buying had been on the market for a long time at a higher price than they eventually relisted it for, in an area we had discounted.) When a bidding war started, he worked with us by being connected with the selling agent, gave us very accurate hints on how we'd need to push and what would work to our advantage, and landed both the deal and some back and forth that happened after. Downside, this was after 2 years of searching and losing out on houses I frankly today still regret not getting. An hour+ commute sucks, and I attribute some of my early failures to not getting an experienced/knowledgeable/active realtor earlier. YMMV but that's the caveat from my experience.
wyc 9y ago
Here's a great piece by Ben Thompson discussing the economics and markets of such services: Both limit growth: regular agents with a stake in the current system steer home buyers away from Redfin properties, and hiring and training agents who aren’t interested in the upside from commission takes a lot of time and money. https://stratechery.com/2016/opendoor-a-startup-worth-emulating/ https://stratechery.com/2016/opendoor-a-startup-worth-emulat... Why the flat-fee brokerage Allre had to close shop: All of these internet companies that profess to want to disintermediate the real estate business – just as they did with the travel agency business (everyone even uses the same analogy) – forget one major fact: buying and/or selling a home is often the largest, most complicated transaction a person may undertake. https://therealdaily.com/editorials/allre-startup-thinks-immune-brokerage-laws-may-lose-main-partner-even-launch/ https://therealdaily.com/editorials/allre-startup-thinks-imm...
- opo 9y ago
  >Here's a great piece by Ben Thompson discussing the economics and markets of such services: Most of the article is about OpenDoor. I don't think that quote about Redfin describes the situation very well. I don't think there is evidence that agents with buyers steer them away from Redfin and it wouldn't work very well since almost all buyers will go to a site with MLS listings and see what is on the market. Redfin takes a lowered commission on their business, they don't lower the commission to the buying agent. In terms of hiring, they allow agents to get away from the continual cold calling/door knocking and self promotion they need to do to attract the next customer and they offer a stable salary and a support staff to take care of the mundane stuff like arranging inspections, etc. I don't think they have a problem getting job applicants. (Not associated with Redfin, but a happy customer.)
strict9 9y ago
Bought my house via redfin and very satisfied with the process. It's also a bonus for buyers, they send you a refund check for a portion of the commission that normally all goes to agents. Their agents may have less experience or knowledge, but as long as you get highly rated/reviewed service providers (lawyer/inspector/etc), that's all that matters. When I sell my current house it will definitely be via redfin. So much is now done online, why pay high commission to traditional realty companies? This is indeed an industry ripe for change, and redfin is definitely doing just that.
jdross 9y ago
Having completed thousands of home sales at Opendoor, I believe a system will works better for most home sales, but local expertise works better for high-end homes. An agent always make you feel like their differentiation matters. Redfin advertises their refined process across thousands of homes to sell faster for more money. Your neighbor advertises their local expertise and awareness to get you an edge. We joke that real estate is like politics – Everyone hates real estate agents, but loves their real estate agent.
- probe 9y ago
  Does Opendoor primarily work with high-end homes or your "average" home (relative to the area of course)? Also thoughts on Ben Thompson's analysis on your company (https://stratechery.com/2016/opendoor-a-startup-worth-emulating/ https://stratechery.com/2016/opendoor-a-startup-worth-emulat...)?
  - jdross 9y ago
    Our average purchase price is in the low 200,000's. We work with the middle 80% of homeowners. Huge Ben Thompson fan, and waking up to his analysis that morning was a joy and big surprise. Rob Hahn has also done some solid analysis on his blog: http://www.notorious-rob.com/2016/12/forest-for-the-trees-opendoor-edition/ http://www.notorious-rob.com/2016/12/forest-for-the-trees-op...
biastoact 9y ago
I bought through Redfin five years ago. Actually, we offered on two houses, backed out after poor inspections, and then purchased the third house in a competitive multi-bid environment all in a few months. With Redfin I never felt the kind of sales/relationship pressure to close a deal that I did when buying with traditional realtors. The only reason we didn't sell our Condo through Redfin is I wanted someone in the neighborhood who could help coordinate painting, staging, etc in the lead up to the listing. All and all a great experience.
deleted 9y ago
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jhulla 9y ago
Good for Redfin. Disruption in any business that charges 6% transaction fees is great. Having said that, real estate transactions are complex beasts with many moving parts. A lot of this process can be scripted and templated. But there are many situations where it cannot. Buyers and sellers are under immense stress as they face very large financial and legal decisions. They don't understand the process, the terminology, the legal and financial consequences, etc. There are local regulations and conventions that differ from region to region. E.g: Check out the differences in who pays fees across counties: http://chicagotitletransfertax.com/ http://chicagotitletransfertax.com/ Good agents absolutely earn their fees when uncertainty and complexity arise. I suspect Redfin is seeking to carve out the part of the market that comprises straight-forward, template driven transactions.
- hammock 9y ago
  >E.g: Check out the differences in who pays fees across counties: http://chicagotitletransfertax.com/ http://chicagotitletransfertax.com/ The complexities can be and already are structured in a table format? Seems like a job perfectly suited for a computer, not a human.
  - jhulla 9y ago
    Sometimes transactions stick at the strangest places. For example, a buyer balks at paying a final $500 fee allotted to him because he has hit his financial stress limit - potentially killing the entire transaction. Good agents are not just facilitating the transaction, but also acting as friends/confidants/therapists for buyers&sellers - helping them make responsible decisions. Good agents also come up with creative solutions to complete transactions - this pops up often in resolving inspection contingencies. Say there is some leakage discovered underneath a bathroom sink with some cabinetry damage. The buyer is getting cold feet. What do you do?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- mediaman 9y ago
msielski 9y ago
Some food for thought: "The future of employment: How susceptible are jobs to computerisation?"[1] which has been discussed on HN previously, lists "Appraisers and Assessors of Real Estate" at .9 probability of computerization and "Real Estate Brokers" at .97. It's certainly not a solved problem, but these two jobs are nearly at the top of the list (or bottom, as the list is in reverse order). [1] PDF: http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/downloads/academic/The_Future_of_Employment.pdf http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/downloads/academic/The_Futu...
africajam 9y ago
Realtors have for the longest time seen other realtors as competitors. Its time they recognise that the true competition is from large sites like Redfin that will use tech to gain an advantage over them. I realised this after several conversations with realtors about this open source project I've created to help them build decent websites: https://github.com/etewiah/property_web_builder https://github.com/etewiah/property_web_builder Most of them figured if it was open source then any of their competitors could use it and be just as good as them. They would say this even if they recognised that my product would give them a better website than they currently had. Pretty strange way of thinking if you ask me....
andrewhillman 9y ago
Coming from a background in real estate as an active broker who has worked with Redfin agents, I'd like to point out a few things. Redfin's biggest asset is their website. It's a good user experience and grabs them a lot of leads. However, Redfin agents tend to be subpar agents when representing sellers and or buyers. Most wouldn't survive in a regular brokerage setting. If I am hiring an agent, I want a hungry service oriented agents, not someone who is fine with receiving a salary. Discounts are enticing to consumers, but from what I have noticed these discounts come at a cost to their clients. Rather than list a bunch of examples, from what I have witnessed, Redfin agents are not all that skilled in negotiating. They are actually horrible. Redfin needs to train better but training is a multi-faceted issue. They need experienced brokers who have been beaten up and have seen it all. I was lucky to have a mentor who played a significant role in redefining the industry back in 2001. Let's just say, nobody knew what the concept of Exclusive Buyer Agency was during the late 90s. Anyway, in order to have great agents, they need to learn from smarter battle tested agents in the office. An agent needs good instincts to represent clients well. This takes time - 10,000 hours easy and they need to see a lot of deal flow. You learn from the ugly deals, not the smooth ones. Fortunately, for Redfin most Redfin buyers/sellers won't realize how good their agent is until they have something to compare it to. Redfin does not have top agents nor can the attract high-quality agents. In order for them to succeed in the public market, they will need to increase fees because the cost of maintaining and attracting talent isn't cheap. Discounting gives companies a good chance to obtain market share. But market share will go down once they raise fees. Historically speaking, discount real estate companies don't do well in public markets. Let's look at one example of a company associated with discounts, Zip Realty. I think they did an IPO in 2004 or so. Over the years things didn't go well so they were forced to merge. Now, you might say, REDFIN is different. This is somewhat true but I am sure if you read the Redfin S1, you will see some of the concerns I have addressed. This is coming from a non-traditional broker. I have always gone against the grain. I believe Redfin will need to evolve a lot to get the public market to embrace them. If I had to guess they will become a little more "traditional" overtime. I hope Redfin trains better and figures things out. Otherwise, they will need to merge post-IPO. Sorry for the long comment. I could write forever on this topic. I may do this on my site when I have a couple of hours.
tabeth 9y ago
I'm very interested in why many people believe a realtor should receive a percentage of the home's sale price as compensation but not the: - inspector (arguably a good one is more useful than realtor by pointing out foundation problems and other issues that can cost 10s of thousands) - attorney (again, arguably more useful. they can point out clauses and things like flood zone, unpermitted work, liens on the property, etc.) - appraiser (you might not even be able to get a loan if the house appraises for less than the purchase price, unless you can foot the difference and/or waive appraisal contingency) - lender (unless you're paying all cash. some lenders have vastly different interest rates they can offer you, given a credit score. this can save you 10s of thousands). Additionally, it doesn't really make sense. The realtor's value is not proportional to the price of the home. Even if you believe a realtor is extremely valuable, a house being twice as much in price wouldn't make them twice as valuable. Redfin is definitely an interesting step in the right direction towards fixed fee realty.
- gpawl 9y ago
  Same reason that app stores charge a 30% commission instead of a flat fee. Prices are what the market will bear and prices are controlled by a cartel that runs the marketplace (the MLS members)
- kevincennis 9y ago
  Am I misunderstanding your point about the lender? They obviously get paid a percentage of the loan value rather than the home's sale price, but presumably those are fairly well correlated.
- kelukelugames 9y ago
  lol, i paid an inspector to look at my newly constructed condo. easiest 500 bucks he ever made.
- ryuker16 9y ago
  Those guys make Bank on regular business unlike the sales guy who can have a bad month and earn zero. Real estate agents as a model needs to go however for some folks, it's pretty good if they get a good salesman or buyer agent. I've dealt with a house dumper which is a nightmare as a seller but the best deal in town for a buyer(10-20% below market). Before the internet, real estate agents were useful or needed so older folks are really hesitant to do for sale by owner.
skynetv2 9y ago
i purchased my house thru RedFin and it was an amazing experience. Yes, a bit more hands on than conventional realtor but you never know how much a conventional relator was working on your behalf anwyay
1024core 9y ago
I like Redfin, but I have a couple of qualms with it: 1. They will tag a house as "hot" arbitrarily. The cynic in me thinks this tag is for sale. 2. They tend to hide information. I've seen houses come on the market, not sell for weeks, go out and then come back in the market for a lower price. But their "history" section does not list "price reduced"; they just pretend like the previous listing never existed. For example, the house at 110 Steiner Street ( https://www.google.com/search?q=110+Steiner+Street&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=110+Steiner+Street&ie=utf-8&... ). It came on the market, and now is nowhere to be found. But when it does come back on the market, they will completely erase the history of this house not having been sold. 3. They allow you to filter with other criteria, but Walkscore is not one of them. I have given them feedback several times, but no response.
- everybodyknows 9y ago
  >2. They tend to hide information. Redfin does this to comply with local MLS rules. Zillow does not, so best to check both.
haberman 9y ago
I'm closing literally today on a house I bought through Redfin. It's my third Redfin buying experience. Redfin for buying is great. Their website makes it easy to look for properties and get alerts when properties you might like go on the market. No need to pay a realtor to do that part. I'm still not using Redfin for selling. When you sell, you're paying for a salesman, and a salesman can make a big difference on how much you sell for, IMO. Redfin will save you 2%, so the question you have to ask yourself is: will a traditional agent make me 2% or more, compared with Redfin? I think the answer is yes, they likely can.
- BadCookie 9y ago
  Indeed. When I needed to sell a house in the East Bay, the Redfin agent wanted to list the property for almost 20% less than it sold for. When I told her that I thought she was pricing it too low, she looked at me like I was crazy. The local agent that we ended up using instead (who had recently sold 3-5 houses in our same neighborhood) had a much better idea of what the house was actually worth, and also paid to stage the house--which Redfin would not have done. We used Redfin to purchase that house, and our purchase experience was very positive, but selling the house with Redfin could have cost us a bundle. It would probably have been fine if property prices had not been rising so quickly at the time, but regardless, I am a believer in the value of staging which is a service not covered by Redfin's fees.
  - ghughes 9y ago
    > The local agent that we ended up using instead ... also paid to stage the house--which Redfin would not have done. You paid for that.
    - BadCookie 9y ago
      Yes, but it seems you've missed my main point entirely. If I had used Redfin, the house could have sold for $80-90k less than it otherwise did, whereas using the local agent cost me perhaps $5-6k more. The smaller point that I was making is that you often can't compare Redfin's fees to the local agent fees without also knowing if the local agent provides staging services, and many of them do. Granted, staging is only a couple thousand for a modest house (from what I understand), but it's something to be aware of.
kevincennis 9y ago
I had a positive experience with Redfin, but honestly feel like even with the refund check, I still overpayed for their contribution. I shopped online, went to open houses on my own, and Redfin basically just contacted the seller on my behalf to present an offer. I'd be shocked if my agent did more than a few hours total work over the entire duration of the sale – though I liked him a lot, and he was super responsive the few times I needed him.
codebook 9y ago
I am actively looking the house right now. And getting disappointed by Redfin these days. Previously it showed listed price for sold properties but now it has gone. Only sold price is shown. Not only this, but the property disappeared from MLS then re-listed with higher price tag doesn't show previously listed price. Information should be transparent between seller and buyer but Redfin is leaning to seller side at this moment. So, I am using Zillow more frequently than before.
- xenophon 9y ago
  I don't think that's true. If you scroll down to the "Property History" section on any Redfin sold listing, you should see the full details for that home, including list price, any price adjustments, and sold price. In some markets, this information is only visible to logged-in users due to MLS restrictions, so you may have to log into your account to view the data.
htedatsu 9y ago
I had a superb experience with them in 2012 despite being a nightmare customer. Chose Refin because their blog was so good. I bought a 2nd house in the same neighborhood. It started out odd because part of their onboarding is asking "Where do you want the check sent?", because, you know, you save so much using them. I knew it would be fake but whatever. (It wasn't--I did indeed get the $10K check almost immediately upon closing.) Problem is that my bank thought I was a terrorist, despite the fact that I have literally 12 accounts with them (several businesses, savings, checking, etc.). I put down 20% on an $890K loan. My income is closer to $800K than $500K and my other house in the neighborhood was already paid for. The simple act of moving the $200K into an account ready to write the check spooked the bank and they literally treated me like a terrorist. Suddenly everything took infinite amounts of time to handle and resulted in triple the usual paperwork. It was excruciating. The bank (Bank of America, of course) caused so much trouble that I finally decided to pull out and lose my $20K earnest money. (I had chosen B of A on the theory that they already knew all about me, and also because they offered a killer ARM.) The mortgage officer literally quit his job over his bank's bungled handling of my sale. Somehow they came through, by this time, 3 months after I had made the offer. I was actually paying $100/day to the sellers because at this point they had moved out and were in a hotel and weren't able to close on their own new house. Anyway, my agent at Redfin was a champ, even when I told her I was quitting. So she had way more trouble than a full-service agent with none of the upside. The whole thing on Redfin's side was precisely as advertised.
realestateguru 9y ago
There is a lot of talk about wishing there was a service that replaced the agent. There is one launching next month called Easyknock and Its a genius concept . It's truly disruptive
- Finch2192 9y ago
  What are you doing? Are you seriously just spamming this service (presumably because you own/work for them) all over this thread in the hopes that you'll steal away the miniscule niche of this thread, within the miniscule niche of hacker news as a whole? There are probably more productive things you can spend your time on...
realestateguru 9y ago
Redfin is great. But there is a new platform launching called Easyknock that is even better and will take it a step further and replace agents by allowing owners and buyers to connect directly in a genius manner
realestateguru 9y ago
Easyknock is the next big thing and actual will replace brokers by connecting buyers and owners directly (1 percent fee)
realestateguru 9y ago
Any heard of Easyknock?
sabujp 9y ago
redfin maps + school ratings + real time alerts, and when I say real time I mean I was in a house in fremont with my realtor and I got an alert during the private viewing that the house just went pending, hah! In any case, this site was instrumental in helping us find a house. RDFN is definitely going in my portfolio.
theprop 9y ago
Redfin is a big pile of nothing. It's a glorified real estate agency which is itself an anachronism or soon will be. You can easily find online or other brokers ready to "sell" your house which just means listing it on the realtors' association multiple site listings for 1% or even a few hundred dollars. The realtors association still control everything in terms of having all the data on homes for sale. They could have some opportunity in giving buyers rebates i.e. having a 1-2% margin for buyers which most agents don't give, mostly because it's a lot luck to find a buyer than to represent the sell-side. The idea that it's worth around 8x revenues...a low margin business as a real estate agency is...is a stretch, though to be fair, their revenues are fast-growing without that much of a marketing spend. Not sure how their quarterly sales vary (seems like a lot in their profitability at least) but their latest quarter was terrible with only $6 mn in gross income on nearly $60 million in revenues and then $30 mn in operating expenses. They claim to have helped users buy/sell $40 billion in real estate last year but showed just $270 mn in revenues which is something like .8% of that market value (while it should be in the 1.5 to 2.5% range I think). Not sure why that it is.
paulie_a 9y ago
Disclaimer: After a decade of working in the real estate industry in various aspects I will say it is a sh*t show of incompetence, laziness and greed. While most real estate sites are bad, zillow is awful and Realtor.com should be considered a crime against humanity. I have to say redfin seems "ok" On that note I am surprised that redfin is missing basic marketing messaging.
Grustaf 9y ago
Ah, so that's why it was name dropped on Silicon Valley recently...
aabajian 9y ago
To get rid of real estate agents: You have to find a way to create a free multiple listing service (satellite imagery maybe, looking for FOR SALE signs?). It's the MLS monopoly that has kept the real estate industry in the dark ages.

246 points by realdlee 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Guess how many California-licensed real estate BROKERS Redfin employs? The answer is here: http://www2.dre.ca.gov/PublicASP/pplinfo.asp?License_id=01521930 http://www2.dre.ca.gov/PublicASP/pplinfo.asp?License_id=0152... A total of six BROKERS. Helped out by 528 SALESPERSONS, who have little or no financial responsibility. A curious fact that no RE agent or Realtor will tell you: Under California law, the terms "real estate agent" or "Realtor" have no significance.

debacle 9y ago

Having worked in the real estate industry for a time, it's ripe for disruption. Redfin is going to have a problem when it paves the way for a flat rate competitor, but right now it's doing a massive service to buyers and sellers.

maguirre 9y ago
seriously curious as I am about to pay 10k+ for selling my house. what are they doing that is so special?
- dpark 9y ago
  Cutting the fees in half.
  - vadym909 9y ago
    cutting the fees by 25% actually. Redfin acts as the buyer or seller's broker and only gives you back half of their 3% commission. The other side's broker still gets their 3%. So you pay 4.5% instead of 6%.
    - Danihan 9y ago
      How does a web site get licensed as a real estate broker, anyway?
      - vadym909 9y ago
        They are registered brokers with a website- just like Windermere. They took this path vs being just a website like Zillow.
        bacontacos 9y ago
        zillow is much more than a website if you're an agent
      - hkmurakami 9y ago
        They have physical brokers in each region (I think the unit is more granular than each state, iirc?)
        apendleton 9y ago
        Yeah I think it's by metro area. I live in DC and the same office handles DC and the Maryland and Virginia DC suburbs, and I think many of the agents are cross-licensed.
      - hkmurakami 9y ago
        They have physical brokers in each region (I think the unit is more granular than each state, iirc?)
    - dpark 9y ago
      That only accounts for the selling side, though. You also get a refund as a buyer and if you are buying and selling with Redfin (not uncommon), the savings are substantial. They actually only charge 1% commission as the selling agent now, too, so vs a typical 6% combined commission, they save 33% for the seller. (Assuming just a sale) Redfin doesn't seem to disclose how they calculate the refund anymore, though, so I'm not sure how much that works out to be. Seems to be around half a percent, so lower than it used to be. All combined, it's close to half of the traditional fees that they either refund or don't collect.
- bdamm 9y ago
  I think buyers could brave buying a home without a realtor. It's a little crazy but doable. Selling is another matter entirely. If you would like the peace of mind to know that your home is actually in your past once the money is in your bank account, use a broker. Having your past home haunt your future can be a miserable prospect.
  - mac01021 9y ago
    Why can't my attorney provide me with that assurance while he's taking me through the closing process? What extra thing is the broker doing?
    - harrumph 9y ago
      >What extra thing is the broker doing? The broker is causing the closing to happen by finding and satisfying the buyer along with the buyer's many, many issues with most properties.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]

notadoc 9y ago

I'm still waiting for someone to completely eliminate the realtor and charge a reasonable flat fee ($1000?) to buy/sell a house and handle all the related details. Why do we need realtors at this point? Everyone finds houses themselves online nowadays. Why does anyone need to pay a whopper commission to some middle-man?

fananta 9y ago
I agree with your point, but realtors are protected but layers of legislation. In many areas the realtor groups almost operate like the taxi cartels.
- deleted 9y ago
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rhodysurf 9y ago
I used to think the same way, but then I bought my first house and my realtor was insanely helpful. The entire process is filled with random quagmires that I would have never known how to manage otherwise. Someone with more experience may be more able to go it alone obviously, but my realtor was invaluable.
- japhyr 9y ago
  I agree. I live in a small isolated town, and I thought realtors were artificially increasing the home prices (not values, but prices) in the small pool of housing available here. But their local knowledge was invaluable in both buying and selling a home. That said, if a buyer and seller agree on a sale independently of any realtor here, we can go to a local realtor and they'll happily facilitate the sale for a flat fee of around $1000. I've done that once, and had a number of friends who also did so. Most of the realtors recognize that the bulk of their commission comes from the listing and marketing process, and the paperwork is just something they know how to do correctly. $1000 is a fair price for knowing that's all being done correctly and fairly.
  - 9y ago

ransom1538 9y ago

Redfin with its smaller cut of RE transactions on the seller side combined with the ability to circumvent MLS with it's own listing system could be the begining of the end for agents.

saimiam 9y ago
While I don't disagree with you, Redfin has been in business since 2004. 13 years is a long time to take to kill off realtors. I'm in the process of selling my place and I'm using a realtor (who nearly matched Redfin's seller commission rate). The Redfin agent I first spoke to proposed a generic, templatized method to sell my property - list on N realtor sites, email my contacts, take nice pics - while the realtor I went with lives two doors down from me, knew the quirks of the HOA, had working knowledge of what potential buyers were looking for in my community based on recent deals he had been part of.
- vadym909 9y ago
  I agree. Realtors won't get killed- they'll just have their commissions reduced. I've bought a house through Redfin which was easy enough, but used an agent who agreed to Redfin level fees, but was much more knowledgeable and better at selling my house. From dressing up the house, doing open houses to following up with buyers, to negotiating. Redfin couldn't match him with their inexperienced agents/helpers, high volume and cookie cutter methods that are more suited to hot real estate markets where there's not much for realtors to do.
  - GFischer 9y ago
    So the mere existence of Redfin has lowered their fees. Good for you :) and an example of the market at work.

bkjelden 9y ago

I hope this company sees nothing but success. I bought my house through Redfin last year, and not only did I save ~$5k in commissions compared to a conventional realtor, I also felt the process was much smoother and more pleasant than other times I've interacted with a conventional realtor. It's simply absurd that in an era where any buyer can view photos of a house for sale online real estate agents still expect to receive 6% commission on the sale of a house.

Danihan 9y ago
Well, technically the brokers get most of that.
- deelowe 9y ago
  Actually, they typically get 1/2.
- jdross 9y ago
  Many brokerages get nothing except a flat fee per transaction and a "desk fee". Some take nothing at all if you're a top producer and refer your clients to their title and mortgage operations. HomeSmart is the largest, I believe
  - dgfgfdagasdfgfa 9y ago
    Is this true in high-demand, low-supply markets? I've found the brokerages get much more greedy in these situations. See: Seattle, San Francisco, NYC.
existencebox 9y ago
Let me offer a different viewpoint. Redfin absolutely serves a purpose, but in some markets, notably for my case very hot markets, it's a significant impediment. I really wanted redfin to work, shopping in seattle 2 years ago. I tried for almost a year, but they would consistently be not as contactable or prompt as we wanted, and gave us very erroneous advice when it came to crafting offers on some houses we wanted. As a result we lost out on houses when we could have been competitive. Eventually we got a very solid realtor, who was aggressive in finding us houses that would slip through our normal searches (the house we ended up buying had been on the market for a long time at a higher price than they eventually relisted it for, in an area we had discounted.) When a bidding war started, he worked with us by being connected with the selling agent, gave us very accurate hints on how we'd need to push and what would work to our advantage, and landed both the deal and some back and forth that happened after. Downside, this was after 2 years of searching and losing out on houses I frankly today still regret not getting. An hour+ commute sucks, and I attribute some of my early failures to not getting an experienced/knowledgeable/active realtor earlier. YMMV but that's the caveat from my experience.

wyc 9y ago

Here's a great piece by Ben Thompson discussing the economics and markets of such services: Both limit growth: regular agents with a stake in the current system steer home buyers away from Redfin properties, and hiring and training agents who aren’t interested in the upside from commission takes a lot of time and money. https://stratechery.com/2016/opendoor-a-startup-worth-emulating/ https://stratechery.com/2016/opendoor-a-startup-worth-emulat... Why the flat-fee brokerage Allre had to close shop: All of these internet companies that profess to want to disintermediate the real estate business – just as they did with the travel agency business (everyone even uses the same analogy) – forget one major fact: buying and/or selling a home is often the largest, most complicated transaction a person may undertake. https://therealdaily.com/editorials/allre-startup-thinks-immune-brokerage-laws-may-lose-main-partner-even-launch/ https://therealdaily.com/editorials/allre-startup-thinks-imm...

opo 9y ago
>Here's a great piece by Ben Thompson discussing the economics and markets of such services: Most of the article is about OpenDoor. I don't think that quote about Redfin describes the situation very well. I don't think there is evidence that agents with buyers steer them away from Redfin and it wouldn't work very well since almost all buyers will go to a site with MLS listings and see what is on the market. Redfin takes a lowered commission on their business, they don't lower the commission to the buying agent. In terms of hiring, they allow agents to get away from the continual cold calling/door knocking and self promotion they need to do to attract the next customer and they offer a stable salary and a support staff to take care of the mundane stuff like arranging inspections, etc. I don't think they have a problem getting job applicants. (Not associated with Redfin, but a happy customer.)

strict9 9y ago

Bought my house via redfin and very satisfied with the process. It's also a bonus for buyers, they send you a refund check for a portion of the commission that normally all goes to agents. Their agents may have less experience or knowledge, but as long as you get highly rated/reviewed service providers (lawyer/inspector/etc), that's all that matters. When I sell my current house it will definitely be via redfin. So much is now done online, why pay high commission to traditional realty companies? This is indeed an industry ripe for change, and redfin is definitely doing just that.

jdross 9y ago

Having completed thousands of home sales at Opendoor, I believe a system will works better for most home sales, but local expertise works better for high-end homes. An agent always make you feel like their differentiation matters. Redfin advertises their refined process across thousands of homes to sell faster for more money. Your neighbor advertises their local expertise and awareness to get you an edge. We joke that real estate is like politics – Everyone hates real estate agents, but loves their real estate agent.

probe 9y ago
Does Opendoor primarily work with high-end homes or your "average" home (relative to the area of course)? Also thoughts on Ben Thompson's analysis on your company (https://stratechery.com/2016/opendoor-a-startup-worth-emulating/ https://stratechery.com/2016/opendoor-a-startup-worth-emulat...)?
- jdross 9y ago
  Our average purchase price is in the low 200,000's. We work with the middle 80% of homeowners. Huge Ben Thompson fan, and waking up to his analysis that morning was a joy and big surprise. Rob Hahn has also done some solid analysis on his blog: http://www.notorious-rob.com/2016/12/forest-for-the-trees-opendoor-edition/ http://www.notorious-rob.com/2016/12/forest-for-the-trees-op...

biastoact 9y ago

I bought through Redfin five years ago. Actually, we offered on two houses, backed out after poor inspections, and then purchased the third house in a competitive multi-bid environment all in a few months. With Redfin I never felt the kind of sales/relationship pressure to close a deal that I did when buying with traditional realtors. The only reason we didn't sell our Condo through Redfin is I wanted someone in the neighborhood who could help coordinate painting, staging, etc in the lead up to the listing. All and all a great experience.

deleted 9y ago

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jhulla 9y ago

Good for Redfin. Disruption in any business that charges 6% transaction fees is great. Having said that, real estate transactions are complex beasts with many moving parts. A lot of this process can be scripted and templated. But there are many situations where it cannot. Buyers and sellers are under immense stress as they face very large financial and legal decisions. They don't understand the process, the terminology, the legal and financial consequences, etc. There are local regulations and conventions that differ from region to region. E.g: Check out the differences in who pays fees across counties: http://chicagotitletransfertax.com/ http://chicagotitletransfertax.com/ Good agents absolutely earn their fees when uncertainty and complexity arise. I suspect Redfin is seeking to carve out the part of the market that comprises straight-forward, template driven transactions.

hammock 9y ago
>E.g: Check out the differences in who pays fees across counties: http://chicagotitletransfertax.com/ http://chicagotitletransfertax.com/ The complexities can be and already are structured in a table format? Seems like a job perfectly suited for a computer, not a human.
- jhulla 9y ago
  Sometimes transactions stick at the strangest places. For example, a buyer balks at paying a final $500 fee allotted to him because he has hit his financial stress limit - potentially killing the entire transaction. Good agents are not just facilitating the transaction, but also acting as friends/confidants/therapists for buyers&sellers - helping them make responsible decisions. Good agents also come up with creative solutions to complete transactions - this pops up often in resolving inspection contingencies. Say there is some leakage discovered underneath a bathroom sink with some cabinetry damage. The buyer is getting cold feet. What do you do?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
mediaman 9y ago

msielski 9y ago

Some food for thought: "The future of employment: How susceptible are jobs to computerisation?"[1] which has been discussed on HN previously, lists "Appraisers and Assessors of Real Estate" at .9 probability of computerization and "Real Estate Brokers" at .97. It's certainly not a solved problem, but these two jobs are nearly at the top of the list (or bottom, as the list is in reverse order). [1] PDF: http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/downloads/academic/The_Future_of_Employment.pdf http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/downloads/academic/The_Futu...

africajam 9y ago

Realtors have for the longest time seen other realtors as competitors. Its time they recognise that the true competition is from large sites like Redfin that will use tech to gain an advantage over them. I realised this after several conversations with realtors about this open source project I've created to help them build decent websites: https://github.com/etewiah/property_web_builder https://github.com/etewiah/property_web_builder Most of them figured if it was open source then any of their competitors could use it and be just as good as them. They would say this even if they recognised that my product would give them a better website than they currently had. Pretty strange way of thinking if you ask me....

andrewhillman 9y ago

Coming from a background in real estate as an active broker who has worked with Redfin agents, I'd like to point out a few things. Redfin's biggest asset is their website. It's a good user experience and grabs them a lot of leads. However, Redfin agents tend to be subpar agents when representing sellers and or buyers. Most wouldn't survive in a regular brokerage setting. If I am hiring an agent, I want a hungry service oriented agents, not someone who is fine with receiving a salary. Discounts are enticing to consumers, but from what I have noticed these discounts come at a cost to their clients. Rather than list a bunch of examples, from what I have witnessed, Redfin agents are not all that skilled in negotiating. They are actually horrible. Redfin needs to train better but training is a multi-faceted issue. They need experienced brokers who have been beaten up and have seen it all. I was lucky to have a mentor who played a significant role in redefining the industry back in 2001. Let's just say, nobody knew what the concept of Exclusive Buyer Agency was during the late 90s. Anyway, in order to have great agents, they need to learn from smarter battle tested agents in the office. An agent needs good instincts to represent clients well. This takes time - 10,000 hours easy and they need to see a lot of deal flow. You learn from the ugly deals, not the smooth ones. Fortunately, for Redfin most Redfin buyers/sellers won't realize how good their agent is until they have something to compare it to. Redfin does not have top agents nor can the attract high-quality agents. In order for them to succeed in the public market, they will need to increase fees because the cost of maintaining and attracting talent isn't cheap. Discounting gives companies a good chance to obtain market share. But market share will go down once they raise fees. Historically speaking, discount real estate companies don't do well in public markets. Let's look at one example of a company associated with discounts, Zip Realty. I think they did an IPO in 2004 or so. Over the years things didn't go well so they were forced to merge. Now, you might say, REDFIN is different. This is somewhat true but I am sure if you read the Redfin S1, you will see some of the concerns I have addressed. This is coming from a non-traditional broker. I have always gone against the grain. I believe Redfin will need to evolve a lot to get the public market to embrace them. If I had to guess they will become a little more "traditional" overtime. I hope Redfin trains better and figures things out. Otherwise, they will need to merge post-IPO. Sorry for the long comment. I could write forever on this topic. I may do this on my site when I have a couple of hours.

tabeth 9y ago

I'm very interested in why many people believe a realtor should receive a percentage of the home's sale price as compensation but not the: - inspector (arguably a good one is more useful than realtor by pointing out foundation problems and other issues that can cost 10s of thousands) - attorney (again, arguably more useful. they can point out clauses and things like flood zone, unpermitted work, liens on the property, etc.) - appraiser (you might not even be able to get a loan if the house appraises for less than the purchase price, unless you can foot the difference and/or waive appraisal contingency) - lender (unless you're paying all cash. some lenders have vastly different interest rates they can offer you, given a credit score. this can save you 10s of thousands). Additionally, it doesn't really make sense. The realtor's value is not proportional to the price of the home. Even if you believe a realtor is extremely valuable, a house being twice as much in price wouldn't make them twice as valuable. Redfin is definitely an interesting step in the right direction towards fixed fee realty.

gpawl 9y ago
Same reason that app stores charge a 30% commission instead of a flat fee. Prices are what the market will bear and prices are controlled by a cartel that runs the marketplace (the MLS members)
kevincennis 9y ago
Am I misunderstanding your point about the lender? They obviously get paid a percentage of the loan value rather than the home's sale price, but presumably those are fairly well correlated.
kelukelugames 9y ago
lol, i paid an inspector to look at my newly constructed condo. easiest 500 bucks he ever made.
ryuker16 9y ago
Those guys make Bank on regular business unlike the sales guy who can have a bad month and earn zero. Real estate agents as a model needs to go however for some folks, it's pretty good if they get a good salesman or buyer agent. I've dealt with a house dumper which is a nightmare as a seller but the best deal in town for a buyer(10-20% below market). Before the internet, real estate agents were useful or needed so older folks are really hesitant to do for sale by owner.

skynetv2 9y ago

i purchased my house thru RedFin and it was an amazing experience. Yes, a bit more hands on than conventional realtor but you never know how much a conventional relator was working on your behalf anwyay

1024core 9y ago

I like Redfin, but I have a couple of qualms with it: 1. They will tag a house as "hot" arbitrarily. The cynic in me thinks this tag is for sale. 2. They tend to hide information. I've seen houses come on the market, not sell for weeks, go out and then come back in the market for a lower price. But their "history" section does not list "price reduced"; they just pretend like the previous listing never existed. For example, the house at 110 Steiner Street ( https://www.google.com/search?q=110+Steiner+Street&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=110+Steiner+Street&ie=utf-8&... ). It came on the market, and now is nowhere to be found. But when it does come back on the market, they will completely erase the history of this house not having been sold. 3. They allow you to filter with other criteria, but Walkscore is not one of them. I have given them feedback several times, but no response.

everybodyknows 9y ago
>2. They tend to hide information. Redfin does this to comply with local MLS rules. Zillow does not, so best to check both.

haberman 9y ago

I'm closing literally today on a house I bought through Redfin. It's my third Redfin buying experience. Redfin for buying is great. Their website makes it easy to look for properties and get alerts when properties you might like go on the market. No need to pay a realtor to do that part. I'm still not using Redfin for selling. When you sell, you're paying for a salesman, and a salesman can make a big difference on how much you sell for, IMO. Redfin will save you 2%, so the question you have to ask yourself is: will a traditional agent make me 2% or more, compared with Redfin? I think the answer is yes, they likely can.

BadCookie 9y ago
Indeed. When I needed to sell a house in the East Bay, the Redfin agent wanted to list the property for almost 20% less than it sold for. When I told her that I thought she was pricing it too low, she looked at me like I was crazy. The local agent that we ended up using instead (who had recently sold 3-5 houses in our same neighborhood) had a much better idea of what the house was actually worth, and also paid to stage the house--which Redfin would not have done. We used Redfin to purchase that house, and our purchase experience was very positive, but selling the house with Redfin could have cost us a bundle. It would probably have been fine if property prices had not been rising so quickly at the time, but regardless, I am a believer in the value of staging which is a service not covered by Redfin's fees.
- ghughes 9y ago
  > The local agent that we ended up using instead ... also paid to stage the house--which Redfin would not have done. You paid for that.
  - BadCookie 9y ago
    Yes, but it seems you've missed my main point entirely. If I had used Redfin, the house could have sold for $80-90k less than it otherwise did, whereas using the local agent cost me perhaps $5-6k more. The smaller point that I was making is that you often can't compare Redfin's fees to the local agent fees without also knowing if the local agent provides staging services, and many of them do. Granted, staging is only a couple thousand for a modest house (from what I understand), but it's something to be aware of.

kevincennis 9y ago

I had a positive experience with Redfin, but honestly feel like even with the refund check, I still overpayed for their contribution. I shopped online, went to open houses on my own, and Redfin basically just contacted the seller on my behalf to present an offer. I'd be shocked if my agent did more than a few hours total work over the entire duration of the sale – though I liked him a lot, and he was super responsive the few times I needed him.

codebook 9y ago

I am actively looking the house right now. And getting disappointed by Redfin these days. Previously it showed listed price for sold properties but now it has gone. Only sold price is shown. Not only this, but the property disappeared from MLS then re-listed with higher price tag doesn't show previously listed price. Information should be transparent between seller and buyer but Redfin is leaning to seller side at this moment. So, I am using Zillow more frequently than before.

xenophon 9y ago
I don't think that's true. If you scroll down to the "Property History" section on any Redfin sold listing, you should see the full details for that home, including list price, any price adjustments, and sold price. In some markets, this information is only visible to logged-in users due to MLS restrictions, so you may have to log into your account to view the data.

htedatsu 9y ago

I had a superb experience with them in 2012 despite being a nightmare customer. Chose Refin because their blog was so good. I bought a 2nd house in the same neighborhood. It started out odd because part of their onboarding is asking "Where do you want the check sent?", because, you know, you save so much using them. I knew it would be fake but whatever. (It wasn't--I did indeed get the $10K check almost immediately upon closing.) Problem is that my bank thought I was a terrorist, despite the fact that I have literally 12 accounts with them (several businesses, savings, checking, etc.). I put down 20% on an $890K loan. My income is closer to $800K than $500K and my other house in the neighborhood was already paid for. The simple act of moving the $200K into an account ready to write the check spooked the bank and they literally treated me like a terrorist. Suddenly everything took infinite amounts of time to handle and resulted in triple the usual paperwork. It was excruciating. The bank (Bank of America, of course) caused so much trouble that I finally decided to pull out and lose my $20K earnest money. (I had chosen B of A on the theory that they already knew all about me, and also because they offered a killer ARM.) The mortgage officer literally quit his job over his bank's bungled handling of my sale. Somehow they came through, by this time, 3 months after I had made the offer. I was actually paying $100/day to the sellers because at this point they had moved out and were in a hotel and weren't able to close on their own new house. Anyway, my agent at Redfin was a champ, even when I told her I was quitting. So she had way more trouble than a full-service agent with none of the upside. The whole thing on Redfin's side was precisely as advertised.

realestateguru 9y ago

There is a lot of talk about wishing there was a service that replaced the agent. There is one launching next month called Easyknock and Its a genius concept . It's truly disruptive

Finch2192 9y ago
What are you doing? Are you seriously just spamming this service (presumably because you own/work for them) all over this thread in the hopes that you'll steal away the miniscule niche of this thread, within the miniscule niche of hacker news as a whole? There are probably more productive things you can spend your time on...

realestateguru 9y ago

Redfin is great. But there is a new platform launching called Easyknock that is even better and will take it a step further and replace agents by allowing owners and buyers to connect directly in a genius manner

realestateguru 9y ago

Easyknock is the next big thing and actual will replace brokers by connecting buyers and owners directly (1 percent fee)

realestateguru 9y ago

Any heard of Easyknock?

sabujp 9y ago

redfin maps + school ratings + real time alerts, and when I say real time I mean I was in a house in fremont with my realtor and I got an alert during the private viewing that the house just went pending, hah! In any case, this site was instrumental in helping us find a house. RDFN is definitely going in my portfolio.

theprop 9y ago

Redfin is a big pile of nothing. It's a glorified real estate agency which is itself an anachronism or soon will be. You can easily find online or other brokers ready to "sell" your house which just means listing it on the realtors' association multiple site listings for 1% or even a few hundred dollars. The realtors association still control everything in terms of having all the data on homes for sale. They could have some opportunity in giving buyers rebates i.e. having a 1-2% margin for buyers which most agents don't give, mostly because it's a lot luck to find a buyer than to represent the sell-side. The idea that it's worth around 8x revenues...a low margin business as a real estate agency is...is a stretch, though to be fair, their revenues are fast-growing without that much of a marketing spend. Not sure how their quarterly sales vary (seems like a lot in their profitability at least) but their latest quarter was terrible with only $6 mn in gross income on nearly $60 million in revenues and then $30 mn in operating expenses. They claim to have helped users buy/sell $40 billion in real estate last year but showed just $270 mn in revenues which is something like .8% of that market value (while it should be in the 1.5 to 2.5% range I think). Not sure why that it is.

paulie_a 9y ago

Disclaimer: After a decade of working in the real estate industry in various aspects I will say it is a sh*t show of incompetence, laziness and greed. While most real estate sites are bad, zillow is awful and Realtor.com should be considered a crime against humanity. I have to say redfin seems "ok" On that note I am surprised that redfin is missing basic marketing messaging.

Grustaf 9y ago

Ah, so that's why it was name dropped on Silicon Valley recently...

aabajian 9y ago

To get rid of real estate agents: You have to find a way to create a free multiple listing service (satellite imagery maybe, looking for FOR SALE signs?). It's the MLS monopoly that has kept the real estate industry in the dark ages.