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This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict

• nsebban 9y ago
  Nice and Cannes, France are great places for conferences. We'll gladly have you guys over here :)
  • baby 9y ago
    I'd rather go to Bordeaux, Montpellier or Rennes to attend a conference :)
    • nsebban 9y ago
      Those are great choices as well. Rennes is kind of a pain to get to, when coming from abroad, but the town and the people there rock !
      • baby 9y ago
        Isn't there a direct TGV from Paris?
• timr 9y ago
  A small percentage of Americans wants to do this. Most Americans are indifferent (as in most countries), but the reactionary party has won the day, and a total lunatic is in the White House. Sadly. But this too shall pass. Not that I disagree with your conclusion: I hope conference organizers (and other groups) do start focusing abroad. The only thing that the GOP reliably responds to is the interests of money. Start moving the tech industry abroad, and see how quickly they change course.
  • zimpenfish 9y ago
    > But this too shall pass. Probably not for several generations if the GOP get to stuff SCOTUS (which is looking increasingly likely with Kennedy's rumoured retirement and the age of the existing Dems on there.) [Edit to correctly reference Kennedy instead of Roberts]
    • humanrebar 9y ago
      Do you mean Kennedy? Or do you have any sources on the Roberts rumor? That's not something I have heard.
      • zimpenfish 9y ago
        You are correct - I meant Kennedy. My apologies - I was reading something that included both of them immediately before commenting and my brain conflated the two.
        • humanrebar 9y ago
          We'll, to be fair Kennedy has been a bit of a freebie for the left. He was appointed by a Republican but only votes that way sometimes.
  • humanrebar 9y ago
    I wouldn't call new and capricious changes to immigration policy as right wing or reactionary. It's populist and probably xenophobic but it doesn't really fit on the American ideological spectrum like that. Trump isn't representative of the bulk of the GOP, in other words. When he's gone, you won't see this sort of thing re-emerge. As weird as it sounds to some, Trump won mostly because he was not Clinton, not because there's some ideology being advocated here (modulo Supreme Court justices).
    • croon 9y ago
      > Trump won mostly because he was not Clinton, not because there's some ideology being advocated here (modulo Supreme Court justices). 1) That doesn't explain him beating out ~12 other seasoned GOPers in the primaries. 2) His platform. 3) Clinton was portrayed as toxic by attacks, not because she was. "But her emails" was something GOPers and DNCers had done for decades before and Trump staff continues to do today. It's not right, but it's not isolated and there are much worse things going on. It's not an excuse, but it was a distraction.
• geff82 9y ago
  As someone who just filled out their DS-160 visa application and paid money for the application and now being left alone due to the new "travel ban" (wife and mother in law Iranian) I just say: let this country be alone for a while. I don't know when the US government (and the voters) will gain back consciousness and be part of the international community again in a positive way. Other countries are much more open right now: Germany, France, Canada... and they even all have working Internet! And there is even no strong need to reside in the US to do online business there, as the big platforms (Appstores...) are open for most other countries.
  • geff82 9y ago
    I say those words as probably the biggest USA-fanboy one could imagine, the guy who defended almost any obscure US policy. But right now, I can not do this any more. I can live with the liberals, I can live with the conservatives, but I can not live with aggressive political stupidness.
    • nojvek 9y ago
      Were at least stuck with this stupidity for 4 years. A financial crash is probably due in that time.
  • secfirstmd 9y ago
    Yep, even Rightscon (human rights and tech conference) has shifted to Canada next year, instead of it's usual rotation to San Francisco...Basically because a huge chunk of participants probably wouldn't be allowed into the US.
  • asveikau 9y ago
    > let this country be alone for a while Please don't leave us alone with these people. We in the US need you more than ever.
    • geff82 9y ago
      Despite the situation being uncomfortable, we really wanted to... but US government just will not let us. I am already exempt of ESTA and need a regular visa because I travel to Iran now and then. For all my 35 years of life, I wanted to become live in the US, and now that I could afford it, it is made impossible by the government (even when my wife has a German passport in a year, we could only do it if we accepted that maybe no persian family member can visit us.
• humanrebar 9y ago
  > This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... Almost all Americans think this sort of thing is nonsense. But the average American has little standing to hold the American bureaucracy accountable for its nonsense. Americans, especially outside overcrowded urban areas, are courteous, helpful, hospitable people that are very tolerant of other people and ideas.
  • nickserv 9y ago
    > Almost all Americans think this sort of thing is nonsense. But the average American has little standing to hold the American bureaucracy accountable for its nonsense. Sorry but they don't get off that easy when almost half of them voted Trump into office. > Americans, especially outside overcrowded urban areas, are courteous, helpful, hospitable people that are very tolerant of other people and ideas. I've found quite the opposite, out in the boonies you're more likely to get harassed when you're not the "right" color or religion. I've had some really nice, helpful people turn nasty as soon as I mentioned my atheism, for example.
    • b6 9y ago
      > Sorry but they don't get off that easy when almost half of them voted Trump into office. Not to rehash the past, but I thought we had gotten it clear by now: voting for the guy does not indicate support. Americans vote for the candidate they fear and despise the least.
      • pjc50 9y ago
        Voting is literally one of the two types of support that actually counts, far more than for-or-against posts on the internet. The other one would be giving money. If you voted for Trump, you supported Trump. It's OK to change your mind, but people need to own and take responsibility for what they do at the ballot box.
        • 9y ago
• oblio 9y ago
  The US has generally been quite isolationist. Both before WW1 and before WW2 there were really strong isolationist currents in US politics. I think that it's part of the "Chine syndrome": they're big, kind of isolated and mostly self-sufficient (or perceive themselves to be so). People seem to have forgotten that the US opening during and after WW2 turned the US into the world's #1 super power. I guess it's hard to look farther ahead when you have pressing issues straight in front of you (immigrants "stealing jobs" and such).
  • chx 9y ago
    https://twitter.com/touchmybobby/status/833156775931174912 https://twitter.com/touchmybobby/status/833156775931174912 > as a job-stealing immigrant, I now have 36 jobs and counting. I keep them in my basement like some kind of job dragon. what you gonna do
    • lerpa 9y ago
      > what you gonna do Call Ghost Busters
  • jmeyers44 9y ago
    While it is true US foreign policy favored isolationism pre-WWII, calling current restrictions on immigration into the US "isolationist" is a conflation of the term. The US maintains a global military presence and there is no evidence this will change until another state actor (or a coalition of state actors) forcibly shrinks the US global footprint. In George Friedman's book, "The Next 100 Years" the central theme to current US foreign policy is that, as a global super power, the US will actively seek to destabilize regions of the world that threaten its interests now and in the future. That simple guideline can help to understand the lionshare of American foreign policy decisions post WWII and is of course, not an isolationist policy whatsoever. Edit: spelling of Friedman
  • boomboomsubban 9y ago
    >The US has generally been quite isolationist. Complete propaganda, the US tried to avoid European wars while profiting off them as much as possible. During this, they conquered huge areas of Native American, Mexican, Asian, and South American lands.
• purpleidea 9y ago
  Montreal and the rest of Canada would love to have you as well!
  • raverbashing 9y ago
    I like the specificity of this comment ;)
• coldtea 9y ago
  >This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... On the other hand if you have[1] the "good life", you might want to legitimately reduce access to it to those outside[2], especially if you view the outside world as some kind of second rate wasteland (or rich but weirdo culturally, e.g. EU/Japan) that just comes to grab a piece of the pie [3]. With its large internal market, the US was never much for foreign tourism, its average population never cared much for world affairs (except from intervening where their interests are and hating the "target du jour"), and it was never that open to cultural imports (foreign movies, foreign music, foreign books, etc) with the exception of British music, anime, temporary fads (like Caribbean music), and whatever immigrants brought themselves (e.g. national cuisines that got bastadized). [1] or you think you have -- since in reality they are lagging in several aspects, from education to infant mortality, and the middle class is pressed too much, and let's not get started with guns, police violence, etc. [2] Whether current Americans are themselves immigrants or children of immigrants doesn't matter much. It's not illogical or hypocritical to want to stop others from getting to where you've gone -- it's just selfish/self-serving. [3] It's also not illogical to not believe that much in the "pie analogy is wrong because the economy-pie can grow" argument, because they (the US middle/working class) don't see it much happening in actual practice.
  • humanrebar 9y ago
    The anti immigrant voter in the US doesn't have a good life or amazing career prospects. Or at least that voter is concerned about Americans in that situation. Concern over importing more unskilled labor is at least superficially valid, in my opinion. This plays into your third point.
• slowmotiony 9y ago
  Spoken like someone who has never seen EU immigration laws.
• dalovar 9y ago
  I propose the Bahamas as the new location to do meetups, it's close to the US, has casinos, good conference rooms, it's a tax haven, AND the Hearthstone's World Championship will be done there. Blizzard must have chosen that location for a reason.. Other than that, sad for Daniel. This is madness =(
  • Piskvorrr 9y ago
    How do you get there? USA requires visa even for transfers, and most flights to the Bahamas originate or stop over in the USA, bringing the issue back to square 1.
    • cjrp 9y ago
      There are flights via Toronto, for example
      • Piskvorrr 9y ago
        Yup, that solves some of the issue to an extent. But again, Europe-Canada is often served by a transfer or stop in the USA, hitting the same UX-funnel. Also, it's a longer (and likely more expensive) trip.
  • baby 9y ago
    I believe Visa issues have been a huge problem in the past for esport events. So it makes sense for Blizzard to go there yes.
• samolang 9y ago
  > very strict immigration policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...
• naiveattack 9y ago
  I've also been thinking that the world needs to begin banning American software. We already know that the totalitarian government that it's becoming is a threat to the privacy and rights of people worldwide. Avoid censorship and surveillance. Look for and build alternatives. Nothing better to change deep rooted policy rot than economics?
  • hedonistbot 9y ago
    That could be against WTO (or some other trade organization) rules and could lead to sanctions. WTO has been one of the main tools to project US interest across the world. Basically saying, "You want access to the world market? You will have to open your markets to us and accept IP rules that are beyond the control of your local government."
• bythckr 9y ago
  Which website is NOT US-centric? The whole internet is US centric like Reddit, stackoverflow, quora, XDA, 4chan. All the major sites are based in US. Honestly, which are the non US-centric sites in English language?
  • deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  • open-source-ux 9y ago
    BBC News The Guardian And much as I hate to say it: The Mail online
    • mathw 9y ago
      Mail Online is hatred-centric, but is definitely English. Much to our shame.
    • ry_ry 9y ago
      But what viewpoint is the Mail representing? The Daily Mail seems almost entirely Daily Mail centric, reflecting nothing more than it's own bubble of reactionary bile and oxymoronic smug self-loathing.
      • DamonHD 9y ago
        That's really too kind to it. "Don't lets facts get in the way of whipping up hatred and getting a few more clicks" may be its motto...
  • stephenr 9y ago
    Anything from Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, a decent chunk of content from mainland Europe (where English is a very common second language, and is used extensively as a common language when dealing with those in other countries)..
    • vsl 9y ago
• agumonkey 9y ago
  I can understand some level of isolationism, but hell this is shooting yourself in the foot with a machine gun. USA used to be the place people dreamed to go, now it's the place they'll avoid thinking about. If they think they can do everything alone, then good luck. Often history happened at crossroads, not dead ends.
• jackbravo 9y ago
  US Conferences should be done in Mexico instead ;-). Maybe a beach like Cancun or Puerto Vallarta. Or a big city like Mexico City, Guadalajara or Monterrey.
• adultSwim 9y ago
  Sanction the US now!
• microtherion 9y ago
  Politically, this might be a good idea. Pragmatically, this has problems of its own. Most sufficiently large tech companies have a number of employees at any given time who may legally reside and work in the US, but cannot legally leave it and return. This is a common stage in the H1B -> Green Card transition process.
  • polotics 9y ago
    And it is acceptable to turn inoccents into a country's prisoners? This is also sick.
• burntrelish1273 9y ago
  I'm an American, an SAR member and don't support this xenophobic, regressive isolationism. What made America great was a fairly liberal policy of accepting most immigrants. Turning people off silently loses potential talent, entrepreneurs, investors and tourist money that will go elsewhere. This situation is unacceptable and un-American.
• csomar 9y ago
  You have data on the refusal rate for Germany? It might be worse than the US (immigration wise). [bold] I'm not saying it is, but without data we can't really know the truth[\bold] For all the hate that the US is getting, it is still by far one of the largest countries that accept foreigners from all over the world to move in the social ladder and build wealth. The lottery program alone accepts 45 thousand every year. You can get your mother/son into the US if you are a US citizen. I know many people who moved their entire families to the US this way. Sure the process was a hassle (a multi-year hassle) but it enabled them to access the US infrastructure.
• DiNovi 9y ago
  oh, us citizens are very aware of this new isolationism; some of us like me are terrified, but 46% of use seemingly wanted it.
• bborud 9y ago
  I can confirm this is actually happening. I occasionally attend somewhat narrow mini-conferences that used to be held in California, NYC etc. Just in the last 6 months none of those will be held in the US anymore since almost nobody from outside the US wants to travel to the US. And these people come from countries that are not on any list of dodgy countries. I would assume that for larger conferences the tendency won't be as strong, but it'll definitively be noticable. I also see this when doing business; when interacting with companies where face to face interaction is needed there is a tendency to avoid business that requires travel to the US. Either they come here or we find partners outside the US. I know of several concrete business deals that have been made with non-US companies for precisely this reason. It is tempting to think that this might end when the current administration ends, but it may not. The reason is that the last 6 months have demonstrated how volatile the policies can be in the US and how easily and quickly things can change for the worse. This affects long term planning. You don't want to make long term commitments when you have no faith in there being a moderating force to smooth out the more extreme forces acting on policy.