24 ms·

Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

684 points by chx 9y ago

darkkindness 9y ago
Sorry, I am not following the news, much. What is the context here?
- Santosh83 9y ago
  Seems like no reason was given.
mettamage 9y ago
Are there people here who have worked at airport security of some country? I know we don't have much to go on, so I'm not looking for the truth. I'm wondering hypothetically: why / how could his entry be denied?
- bryanrasmussen 9y ago
  I'm going to guess they looked up what cURL was and thought it was a tool for hacking.
- the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
  I don't work at airport security but since he was denied on check-in I suppose it's a case of "computer says no". The person at the check-in counter does not know why and has no way to get the situation remedied.
TekMol 9y ago
My feeling is that I read stories like these pretty often. That somebody was denied entry or arrested or humiliated while entering the USA. Is this because it happens more often in the USA then in other countries? Or is there some kind of reporting bias at play?
- kyrra 9y ago
  This was at his local airport in Sweden. To quote some tweets: "They denied me entry on ESTA with no explanation. Already at check-in in Sweden. =( or rather instead of check-in" "I only got to the airport locally. My passport was flagged somehow so the airline wouldn't let me check in, called to ask why... So they say" Edit: ESTA is this: https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ So the DHS denied him for some reason.
  - Taniwha 9y ago
    but when you apply for an ESTA you get told you've been 'approved' - you use this as a basis for booking a flight and travelling, if they're going to take it back without telling you (they have your email address) that really sucks, kind of passive aggressive
    - the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
      > but when you apply for an ESTA you get told you've been 'approved' FWIW, the last esta before the current one was not immediately approved for me. I did however get a mail after a while that it was approved and i get consistently mailed a month before it expires.
    - iamtew 9y ago
      They don't seem to do the check when you apply. Years ago I fat-fingered my passport number, the ESTA went through fine, but I was refused at the airport due to my typo. I had to make a new one on the spot, was no problem, but it seems that they will just approve the ESTA when applying for it, and then later refuse you if they want.
      - koolba 9y ago
        It'd be very funny if all of this boils down to him having a typo entering his info.
      - dx034 9y ago
kraftman 9y ago
My guess would be that the US found some dodgy software that happened to make use of cURL, add flagged him as part of it, given what he's previously said about receiving emails from people that have found his details in other software: https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2016/11/14/i-have-toyota-corola/ https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2016/11/14/i-have-toyota-corola/
- willvarfar 9y ago
  Except if that were so they'd just routinely stop him on arrival instead. We've had countless stories of programmers being interviewed crossing borders and offered deals. There was one on HN just last week about a programmer tweeting about being approached, but I can't find that story.. but its their MO. Do-Not-Fly is for people they fear might blow up the plane before it arrives in the US.
  - curiousgal 9y ago
    Wouldn't he not be given a visa in the first place if he was such a suspect?
    - aoloe 9y ago
      He probably does not need a visa (that's the case if one has a biometric passport)
    - ccozan 9y ago
      He's Swedish national, just needs to fill in the ESTA, no visa requirement.
    - thecopy 9y ago
      Swedes can get a visa waiver automatically within a few minutes online by using an online form.
      - bonzini 9y ago
        ESTA is not entirely automatic. He could have been denied it; in fact, he probably will be denied it the next time he tries to get the ESTA, if he ever does. He will then have to go through the non-waiver visa procedure. However, you only have to renew ESTA once every two years, not every time you fly. The DHS might have "discovered" whatever they discovered only recently.
willvarfar 9y ago
Its easy to speculate that if the feds wanted to speak to him on something computer-related he'd be let travel to the US and interviewed on arrive. The "Do Not Fly" list is usually for suspected terrorists. Perhaps it was just a name-match? The wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List says: > Many individuals were "caught in the system" as a result of sharing the exact or similar name of another person on the list However, there are at least 82 "Daniel Stenberg"s in Sweden (and I'm surprised its not considerably higher that that!) https://personer.eniro.se/resultat/Daniel%20Stenberg https://personer.eniro.se/resultat/Daniel%20Stenberg
- loopbit 9y ago
  First of all, there's no reason to think that it's a "Do Not Fly" list. He says that he did the US border control checks in his local airport. That is quite common (at least in Europe) when flying to the US and just means that they check your visa (or visa-waiver in this case) at home instead of after physically getting to the US[0] I live in Ireland and at almost every (all?) flight from Dublin to the US you do the US border control check here to the point where they don't even check your passport on arrival. Second, there really is plenty of people with problems like that. A friend of mine travels frequently to the US and his name is the same as a relatively well known drug lord (it's a fairly common name, too). As far as I know, he's never been denied entrance to the US, but he routinely gets flagged, separated, his identity verified and his luggage checked. Usually, all it means is that when he travels with colleagues or family, they have to wait for him for an extra hour or two to get out of the airport. [0] I think that, technically, the area of the local airport where they do that is considered US soil and, for all legal purposes, you are in the US. As I said, not sure about this and I might be completely wrong, but that's what the signs lead me to think.
  - germanier 9y ago
    Sweden currently does not have any pre-clearance airports (which is what you describe for Dublin). The check here was most likely only done by the airline itself using a system supplied by the US authorities for checking ESTA validity.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
slitaz 9y ago
Is he developing any critical software that some would want to inject unsafe code?
- VonGallifrey 9y ago
  By critical software, do you also mean software that is embedded into all kinds of other software projects all over the world? Like cURL for example?
benmarks 9y ago
Denied before boarding? I'd first level blame at the airline / CBP connection, rather than a DNF entry or change to ESTA status. Curious to hear what happens. Ironic, as someone pointed out on Twitter, that likely cURL is probably used somewhere in the chain of communication!
- vbezhenar 9y ago
  I wrote some software for police at some moment. Years later I was visiting police station and I saw them using my software to check me. It was interesting experience.
  - mrisoli 9y ago
    I worked on a state government transparency project once. It lists everything the government spends money on, including the companies they contract to do things, it was interesting seeing how much the company was making from that project and how much I was getting paid.
eecc 9y ago
Trouble is: to save face they'll just stonewall him indefinitely rather than investigating, admitting a mistake and removing him from the list.
rl3 9y ago
There's a good chance that if automated software is at least partly responsible for this, that cURL was probably used somewhere in the intelligence pipeline. Rather ironic if that is the case.
- HappyTypist 9y ago
  I should make a low level utility and in the license prohibit governments from denying me entry.
  - tbodt 9y ago
    That clause of the license probably wouldn't hold up in court though.
Capt-RogerOver 9y ago
He seems to have tried to enter USA using ESTA. ESTA is not a visa, it's a visa-waiver program. It's specifically created as an easier method of entering a country, but as a trade-off, it says in the terms that they can deny it for any reason with no questions. This does not mean that the person cannot enter the country per se, it just means they need to apply for a real visa.
- pricechild 9y ago
  It's frustrating they couldn't warn him prior to the hour of travel? I find it difficult to believe they'll have rejected him for something they couldn't have contacted him about days or weeks ago. With ESTA they've got perfect contact details too? I assume he's lost the price of the flight? Travel insurance wouldn't repay it?
  - daemin 9y ago
    At least they told him before he flew over. They could have done that when he actually landed, and he would have been denied entry there, then shuffled back onto a flight.
- zerr 9y ago
  > it says in the terms that they can deny it for any reason with no questions Same goes for any visa.
  - Kurtz79 9y ago
    But in the case of a normal Visa, a certain amount of vetting is done beforehand, although you can still be denied entry. To get a J1 I had to deliver quite a few documents and go the local US embassy to do an interview there. An ESTA you can do literally 10 minutes before checking in (I did it once), I doubt anything else than a few basic automatic checks are done.
    - zerr 9y ago
      I believe the border control personnel act as if that vetting hasn't been done at all. All in all, I think this path is worse, since you get denied to entry after a long flight, and you have to flight back...
ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
The no explanation is the worst part for anything like this. Impossible to determine what to do or what reason they had, just denied. It's not just the government either, look at how some tech companies have a policy of providing no explanation for interview rejections too. It's a lack of respect for anyone but oneself.
- nothrabannosir 9y ago
  > no explanation for interview rejections too. It's a lack of respect for anyone but oneself. Nothing personal Ajeet, but: for the love of God, can this trope please die? It has been widely, extensively, repeatedly, incessantly established every single time this comes up: they do it because of the unreasonably high risk of being sued. If the cards are stacked against you, the wisest move is not to play. This has nothing to do with respect. It is the logical move in an unfair game. Otherwise I agree with your post. Even that the frustration must feel similar to silent job interview rejection. I'm just getting tired of seeing this "no respect" point over and over and over and over here. My eyes are bleeding. Sorry for the expletive.
  - ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
    Not personal at all, I don't for the most part need to participate in the 'game' anymore thankfully, but I still think in specific situations, perhaps a junior dev failing a technical white board interview, if they ask for feedback it should be given, otherwise they have no way of knowing what went wrong or how to improve. It takes five minutes. Being afraid of being sued is a lame excuse. I know 15 years ago it would have accelerated my career, nowadays it doesn't matter. Don't you think Daniel Stenberg should have a way of determining on what grounds he was denied and what he can do about it?
    - nothrabannosir 9y ago
      Yes for Daniel, no for companies. Either we protect them (at least slightly) more from lawsuits, OR we accept their silence. I honestly don't mind which. But it's one or the other. We make the rules, as people.
efoto 9y ago
"Don't assume malice when stupidity is an adequate explanation." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
- jablan 9y ago
  Who assumed malice? Does the reason really matter?
- gtirloni 9y ago
  My exact thoughts. The bureaucracy/machinery is so complex that it could have been any minor error in the paperwork. For a person, this is their worst day. For a huge bureaucracy, nothing.
  - submeta 9y ago
    Pretty Kafkaesque
  - TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
    Quite possible there's some Scandinavian criminal that happens to have the same name, for example.
chinathrow 9y ago
That's most likely because of some name collision/similarity instead of his FOSS work.
- stephenr 9y ago
  Quite possibly, but if so this is a weird result. I was denied automatic (i.e. scan passport, go through automated face detection machine) entry into Australia (my own country) a few years ago (at the Australian end). When i asked the border security officer why it didn't admit me, she said "you have a name similar to someone on a watch list". "Oh, I didn't think my name was that common, is it a close match?" "Not that close, no".
y0ghur7_xxx 9y ago
This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... These conferences where people around the world meet should start to be hosted somewhere else. Not in the USA anymore. Somewhere in a country that welcomes people instead of treating all of them like possible threats. Just organize All Hands in Berlin next year. Or Barcelona, or Munich, or Stockholm, or Amsterdam, or whatever. Just not the US anymore. Americans don't want foreigners on their soil. Or at least everything looks that way from the outside. Let them be that way.
- nsebban 9y ago
  Nice and Cannes, France are great places for conferences. We'll gladly have you guys over here :)
  - baby 9y ago
    I'd rather go to Bordeaux, Montpellier or Rennes to attend a conference :)
    - nsebban 9y ago
      Those are great choices as well. Rennes is kind of a pain to get to, when coming from abroad, but the town and the people there rock !
      - baby 9y ago
        Isn't there a direct TGV from Paris?
- timr 9y ago
  A small percentage of Americans wants to do this. Most Americans are indifferent (as in most countries), but the reactionary party has won the day, and a total lunatic is in the White House. Sadly. But this too shall pass. Not that I disagree with your conclusion: I hope conference organizers (and other groups) do start focusing abroad. The only thing that the GOP reliably responds to is the interests of money. Start moving the tech industry abroad, and see how quickly they change course.
MotokoCMDR 9y ago
Absolutely no trouble at US airports. YMMV. Staff at JFK were professional, friendly and fast. This person may not have realized an ESTA needed in advance. He could be doing the thing people often do where they screw something up, and then, irresponsibly give a vague explanation, that they can deny later, but that leaves open to interpretation the possibility that they were somehow unfairly treated, when it might have just been their screw up. "Denied because of ESTA" --> could actually be "Denied because I didn't get my ESTA ahead of time, and follow the clearly stated requirements. Damn, I'm stupid. Everyone make sure you read the rules before you fly! My bad."
- hmans 9y ago
  "It's never happened to me, so it must be that guy's fault!"
  - MotokoCMDR 9y ago
    Oh no I didn't say causation. But I get if pretending I did is the only way you can reply. My own version: "Guy didn't say it was his fault, so it can't be!" "People always own their mistakes, never blame others!"
- justin_vanw 9y ago
  Yes, these inflammatory stories surface on here from time to time. Everyone jumps from 'someone was inconvenienced' to 'totalitarianism' in 1 second with 0 information. People start calling for boycotts of the US. Later, 9 times out of 10 it ends up being nothing, but there's not a story with thousands of posts with people saying 'oh, I jumped to conclusions'. In fact people don't ever hear about the resolution, and they probably don't care to hear stories that contradict the worldview they choose to reinforce for themselves.
  - MotokoCMDR 9y ago
    True. People love to play at being victims of something. They absolutely love a ripper of a story of some absolute bad villain. Even if none exists. It's amazing the fictions that masquerade as truths, while everyone is out pretending they've got a monopoly on facts. I'd laugh if it wasn't so devastatingly sad. I'm still laughing tho. Maybe the internet virtualizes/fictionalizes everything and we're all just "victims" of our own creation. Frankennet.
ckastner 9y ago
What puzzles me is that the ESTA application was approved in the first place. If they were going to deny him entry, why approve it? Could there be a more benign explanation for this issue? For example: his ESTA approval expired (it's valid for two years), or the data entered on the ESTA form did not exactly match his passport data (special characters, middle names, etc.)
- ubernostrum 9y ago
  The online ESTA form does not "approve" someone to enter the US. The online ESTA form is required to determine if you're in a population that's generally eligible for visa-free entry (so that the airline and other systems know whether to require a visa for you). Filling out the ESTA form does not grant a visa, does not grant the right to enter the US, and does not even guarantee you'll be allowed onto the plane. It simply says "Yes, you appear to be a citizen of a country which, in general, has visa-free entry to the US".
  - germanier 9y ago
    This is simply not true (I posted the exact message it shows you at the end of the process somewhere else in this thread – it explicitly contains the phrase "approved and authorized to travel"). Yes, it does not guarantee you entry. However, it does much more than just to check whether you have a required nationality. If that were all, the system weren't needed. Practically every country has visa-free entry for some nationalities and such travel authorisation systems are very rare among them. Airline know how to check if you have one of the visa-free nationalities and do so every day everywhere in the world (probably much more reliable than having the travel fill out a form, too – they even check again in the case of the US, as we see in this example). The US introduced the ESTA system much later than visa-free travel for certain nationalities.
    - ubernostrum 9y ago
      And as I said in my other reply to you: the wording you are citing is terrible and inaccurate and you should never, ever, ever, EVER, rely on it as an exhaustive legally-binding declaration.
GreaterFool 9y ago
Recently EU parliament voted to introduce visas for US citizens due to unequal treatment of EU countries. "About fing time", I though. Few months pass and I read that EU Commission will do nothing*. I hate those bureaucrats in the EU. EU should retaliate (not of malice, just to force equal treatment). It's not a visa waiver if you can be denied entry so easily, as many people are. And of course not all EU countries are eligible.
- jagermo 9y ago
  I understand your sentiment and the reaction. But I think it would be wrong to have an eye-for-eye-approach. US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA. They should feel wrong why they force it onto others but enjoy the freedom to travel easily. Otherwise nothing will change. It's easy to start a "oh, they do it to us, let's annoy them even more" spiral and that would really, really suck.
  - mclightning 9y ago
    > "US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA." They have been seeing it all this time, yet this is what you get.
    - pas 9y ago
      Change takes time. It's a complex problem deeply rooted in fear, mongered by people who now successfully occupied the White House. In the mean time, I agree, probably a simpler yet more aggressive tit-for-tat approach would be more fruitful.
      - GreaterFool 9y ago
        Nothing has been done about unequal treatment of EU countries in the past decade. Don't you think this is long overdue? For EU it should be a matter of principle and backbone. They simply don't have them. EU has proven several times that they will look the other way as long as it benefits larger members.
qume 9y ago
Just to balance the narrative here a bit, I have traveled into and out of the US many times per year for around 15 years with no problems on an ESTA. I only recently switched to a visa. After a long flight having to deal with the delay and hassle of immigration seems much worse than it is. I really hate it, and the comments here suggest others do too, but if you look at what we have to deal with objectively it's not really that horrible. It feels weird for me to be defending them, because of the crappy experiences over the years, but when it comes down to it I think CBP are far more reasonable than they are given credit for because of the crappy environment it happens in. If you were calmly asked the same questions by a sweet guy or girl on a chaise longue while being offered champagne and strawberries, people would have almost no problem even though it's really the same thing without the elevated stress level. Regarding Daniel - like others here I'm sure it's because cURL has been used extensively for bad purposes he was kicked off the ESTA program. Yes it sucks that they didn't let him know in advance, and they didn't have the smarts to figure that he had nothing to do with the bad actors. For me getting a visa was a pretty easy process. The interviewer in my country was a smart political science graduate and everything went smoothly. An inconvenience for sure, but hey this is another sovereign nation, why should us foreigners expect to be able to march in without playing by their rules, even if we don't agree with them. Don't get me wrong - this situation sucks for Daniel and US immigration has massive room for improvement.
- GreaterFool 9y ago
  > cURL has been used extensively for bad purposes What?! Sources please.
  - nickserv 9y ago
    I once used it to change the user-agent and get an alternative response from an API.
    - funnyfacts365 9y ago
      badass...
  - 9y ago
mrleiter 9y ago
He himself says that he does not know the reason why. It could be because of his involvement in cURL, it could be a mix-up, it could be any reason, really. As long as there is no official statement or any other formal reason, this all remains speculative and consequently unfit for solid arguments against the US immigration policy in this specific case. Disclaimer: I am a European citizen and by no means in favor of recent immigration policy changes of the US.
Sir_Substance 9y ago
Stop traveling to the US people. They treat you like shit, and they're gonna keep treating you like shit until they start losing money. Arrange these conferences somewhere else.
pavlakoos 9y ago
At least it happened before the flight...
theboywho 9y ago
People suggesting to move conferences to other countries like France or Germany are wrong: you can't guarantee that your country is not going to turn into a US-like isolationist in the future. The US wasn't and your country is also only 1-government away from being one. What we probably need is a new form of portable conferences where the location doesn't matter and/or is flexible and/or regime-proof. We should stop taking democracy and openness for granted.
- theboywho 9y ago
  Another idea (which I'm sure is not going to be popular but is probably a pretty good one): choose countries where the head of the state is stable: eg. Open Kingdoms, like Morocco, where the royal family is there for more than centuries and has a history showing a welcoming attitude towards international gatherings / foreigners, or where most people can get in without needing a visa.
- K2L8M11N2 9y ago
  >you can't guarantee that your country is not going to turn into a US-like isolationist in the future If it does, you can move the conference again. Just because it can change sometime "in the future" doesn't mean we shouldn't do it now.
  - theboywho 9y ago
    I was referring to suggestions of EU as a final solution to the US issue. What you are referring to is to decide on hosting locations on a year to year basis, which joins my idea of portable conferences.
- skynode 9y ago
  Completely agree with this. Based on historical cycles, we're probably heading into even more protectionist times ahead.
- alkonaut 9y ago
  Umm just have the conference in a place that has a good climate for travel now. It's not like someone is arguing to have the conference in France because they will be a friendly democracy forever. Just now.
thepoet 9y ago
On a related note, the visa issuing system of the US sucks. I was denied a tourist visa and then issued one on reapplication in a matter of 5 days. The process is highly irregular since absolutely nothing changed between the two 30 seconds interviews except the interviewer. The only inconvenience was I had to reschedule my YC interview and throw away an additional $300 in visa form and travel cost.
ubernostrum 9y ago
Just to throw out an anecdote: a while back I nearly was denied boarding of an international flight, because it turned out the airline had mixed up my passport data and decided I was not a US citizen and would need a visa to return to the United States. I discovered this at the airport, when trying to drop off my bag. Fortunately, the airline agent was able to get a supervisor who took a look at my (US citizen) passport and fixed something in their records that allowed me to get a boarding pass and catch the flight, but I could easily have just been stranded there by someone who took the attitude of "computer says no, can't help you when the computer says no".
- baby 9y ago
  Oh my, I was denied as well last time I entered because the person at the border looked at the wrong page on my passport (which was a Visa for the previous year). She just told me she couldn't let me in without any fucking reason. I realized she was looking at the wrong page and had to tell her to look at the correct one. She gave me her best "I don't give a fuck" impression and let me go on my way.
op00to 9y ago
Please don't say "Americans" don't want foreigners on our soil. A minority of Americans allowed a hostile foreign government to manipulate our election process to raise a corrupt, compromised bigot to power. Most Americans want our country to be open and free. Painting every American this way does nothing to recognize the misery of this situation.
- croon 9y ago
  While that may be true, half of Americans weren't bothered enough to vote to stop it.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- svantana 9y ago
  Well things were not much better under Obama. In the last ten years, I've had European friends denied entry, or even detained for hours on end, for the most innocuous of reasons. And regardless of what "most Americans" want, they clearly don't want it enough to make it a mainstream political issue.
  - pizza 9y ago
    Yup. - W brought us the magnificent theatre of Homeland Security - Clinton cut legal immigration by nearly half - Reagan made employers "attest to their immigration status", and a crime to hire undocumented people knowingly
- hedonistbot 9y ago
  Please stop shifting the blame to outside forces. Losing to the most incompetent candidate ever despite the full support of the traditional media, Hollywood and the political establishment on both sides shows how bad Hillary's campaign was and how Obama failed to bring "hope and change". There should've been a torrent of resignations among the dems after this results and yet they continue like nothing happened and just shout "Russia".
  - 9y ago
op00to 9y ago
We didn't elect Donald Trump. He was installed by the Russian government.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  Russia seems to have influenced the American voter. But non-American-citizen HN commenters weren't exactly refraining from commenting on the election out of a desire for electoral purity. Granted, the Russian approach was especially scummy, but it was American who voted for Trump at the end of the day. And for better or worse foreign speech will influence the American voter at times.
- gcoda 9y ago
  You age giving too much credit to Russia, it easy to blame someone else, like in Russia people blaming Obama for bad roads and high prices, and simply ignoring corruption that ruins everything. And here in Ukraine everything bad is blamed on Russia, no one in power will take the blame, it is simple to say "Putin did it"
- smoyer 9y ago
  Well ... Trump lied to a bunch of disenfranchised blue-collar workers and added them to the patriotic isolationists. If you weren't part of that group but had previously voted republican, you probably wouldn't vote for Clinton either. My biggest hope is that this lasts only four years (or less) and that a) the two major parties come to their senses or b) we end up with more than two viable parties. For those of us in the U.S. who are sane (but surrounded), I'll simply say "I'm very sorry Daniel". P.S. I use cURL most every day - thanks!
  - pricechild 9y ago
    In your experience, has the leader of the political party opposing your beliefs always told the truth in the past?
    - dnm 9y ago
      No, of course not, but we've never seen anything like what we're witnessing today. There's reality, and then there's Trump's version of reality, and the 40% that believe everything he says, despite facts to the contrary.
0x0 9y ago
Would it be possible to change the license of cURL to one that denies usage inside the US? :P
- fnj 9y ago
  If you have control of the copyright, yes, you could change the license from straight GPL to any kind of customized license you want. I guess you could restrict access to any group you want. But if it's open source, it would be pretty difficult to enforce your policy. Even if you closed the source, ruining it for linux, what good would that do? The cat is out of the bag already. Anybody could just use the existing open source and fork it further as they wish.
  - jordigh 9y ago
    > But if it's open source, it would be pretty difficult to enforce your policy. So, two things: (1) a license that discriminates against a particular group is not open source, (2) being open source or not has nothing to do with whether enforcing the license will be difficult. Enforcing the license is just a matter of the resources available to the copyright holders. Many proprietary licenses are routinely violated, some free and open source licenses have been enforced.
  - 0x0 9y ago
    Debian had non-US repositories in the past and it didn't "ruin it for linux". Perhaps they could be brought back, with the addition of geoblocking US clients from accessing the non-US repository.
baybal2 9y ago
I was denied entry once, and I am a frequent flyer. It was at Calgary's airport. I was called out for a search. Then, border security guys spent an hour having coffee and my plane flew away. I came to them and made them have a very unpleasant conversation with me for the next hour. They summoned their higher up, who came with an official entry refusal with no reason stated, citing that he has no obligation to give one. The bastard had a badge with name R. Torres on it. Nevertheless, I flew the next day on the same airline.
caseysoftware 9y ago
Considering the various "terrorist watch lists" are basically vaguely defined names and anyone can get added trivially, without review, and without a way to challenge[1], is anyone really surprised? When it's bad enough that a sitting US Senator was stopped and interrogated because "T Kennedy" was on the list[2], we passed that absurdity threshold a long time ago. 1 - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/25/terrorist-watch-list_n_5617599.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/25/terrorist-watch-lis... 2 - http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/no-fly-mistakes-cat-stevens-ted-kennedy-john-lewis/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/no-fly-mistakes-cat-s...
vadym909 9y ago
Sorry for your troubles. In many blue states that didn't vote Trump, our votes are worth 25% of the votes of some red states. Not our fault- what was implemented to make it fair to small states is now a menace to the large states. Demagogues that cater to the GOP agenda manipulate the red-state populace like 3rd world dictators. Our only hope is for the next Dem Presidential candidate to be sensible but also capable of charming or hoodwinking the red states in some way. I thought Bernie would be good, but he's too honest. We need someone like Bill Clinton again.
- baby 9y ago
  Oh this has been going on before Trump took leadership.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
daveheq 9y ago
The link says I'm unauthorized to view the tweets, whatever that means.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
mariuolo 9y ago
I bet it's the "haxx" domain.

684 points by chx 9y ago

darkkindness 9y ago

Sorry, I am not following the news, much. What is the context here?

Santosh83 9y ago
Seems like no reason was given.

mettamage 9y ago

Are there people here who have worked at airport security of some country? I know we don't have much to go on, so I'm not looking for the truth. I'm wondering hypothetically: why / how could his entry be denied?

bryanrasmussen 9y ago
I'm going to guess they looked up what cURL was and thought it was a tool for hacking.
the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
I don't work at airport security but since he was denied on check-in I suppose it's a case of "computer says no". The person at the check-in counter does not know why and has no way to get the situation remedied.

TekMol 9y ago

My feeling is that I read stories like these pretty often. That somebody was denied entry or arrested or humiliated while entering the USA. Is this because it happens more often in the USA then in other countries? Or is there some kind of reporting bias at play?

kyrra 9y ago
This was at his local airport in Sweden. To quote some tweets: "They denied me entry on ESTA with no explanation. Already at check-in in Sweden. =( or rather instead of check-in" "I only got to the airport locally. My passport was flagged somehow so the airline wouldn't let me check in, called to ask why... So they say" Edit: ESTA is this: https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ So the DHS denied him for some reason.
- Taniwha 9y ago
  but when you apply for an ESTA you get told you've been 'approved' - you use this as a basis for booking a flight and travelling, if they're going to take it back without telling you (they have your email address) that really sucks, kind of passive aggressive
  - the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
    > but when you apply for an ESTA you get told you've been 'approved' FWIW, the last esta before the current one was not immediately approved for me. I did however get a mail after a while that it was approved and i get consistently mailed a month before it expires.
  - iamtew 9y ago
    They don't seem to do the check when you apply. Years ago I fat-fingered my passport number, the ESTA went through fine, but I was refused at the airport due to my typo. I had to make a new one on the spot, was no problem, but it seems that they will just approve the ESTA when applying for it, and then later refuse you if they want.
    - koolba 9y ago
      It'd be very funny if all of this boils down to him having a typo entering his info.
    - dx034 9y ago

kraftman 9y ago

My guess would be that the US found some dodgy software that happened to make use of cURL, add flagged him as part of it, given what he's previously said about receiving emails from people that have found his details in other software: https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2016/11/14/i-have-toyota-corola/ https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2016/11/14/i-have-toyota-corola/

willvarfar 9y ago
Except if that were so they'd just routinely stop him on arrival instead. We've had countless stories of programmers being interviewed crossing borders and offered deals. There was one on HN just last week about a programmer tweeting about being approached, but I can't find that story.. but its their MO. Do-Not-Fly is for people they fear might blow up the plane before it arrives in the US.
- curiousgal 9y ago
  Wouldn't he not be given a visa in the first place if he was such a suspect?
  - aoloe 9y ago
    He probably does not need a visa (that's the case if one has a biometric passport)
  - ccozan 9y ago
    He's Swedish national, just needs to fill in the ESTA, no visa requirement.
  - thecopy 9y ago
    Swedes can get a visa waiver automatically within a few minutes online by using an online form.
    - bonzini 9y ago
      ESTA is not entirely automatic. He could have been denied it; in fact, he probably will be denied it the next time he tries to get the ESTA, if he ever does. He will then have to go through the non-waiver visa procedure. However, you only have to renew ESTA once every two years, not every time you fly. The DHS might have "discovered" whatever they discovered only recently.

willvarfar 9y ago

Its easy to speculate that if the feds wanted to speak to him on something computer-related he'd be let travel to the US and interviewed on arrive. The "Do Not Fly" list is usually for suspected terrorists. Perhaps it was just a name-match? The wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List says: > Many individuals were "caught in the system" as a result of sharing the exact or similar name of another person on the list However, there are at least 82 "Daniel Stenberg"s in Sweden (and I'm surprised its not considerably higher that that!) https://personer.eniro.se/resultat/Daniel%20Stenberg https://personer.eniro.se/resultat/Daniel%20Stenberg

loopbit 9y ago
First of all, there's no reason to think that it's a "Do Not Fly" list. He says that he did the US border control checks in his local airport. That is quite common (at least in Europe) when flying to the US and just means that they check your visa (or visa-waiver in this case) at home instead of after physically getting to the US[0] I live in Ireland and at almost every (all?) flight from Dublin to the US you do the US border control check here to the point where they don't even check your passport on arrival. Second, there really is plenty of people with problems like that. A friend of mine travels frequently to the US and his name is the same as a relatively well known drug lord (it's a fairly common name, too). As far as I know, he's never been denied entrance to the US, but he routinely gets flagged, separated, his identity verified and his luggage checked. Usually, all it means is that when he travels with colleagues or family, they have to wait for him for an extra hour or two to get out of the airport. [0] I think that, technically, the area of the local airport where they do that is considered US soil and, for all legal purposes, you are in the US. As I said, not sure about this and I might be completely wrong, but that's what the signs lead me to think.
- germanier 9y ago
  Sweden currently does not have any pre-clearance airports (which is what you describe for Dublin). The check here was most likely only done by the airline itself using a system supplied by the US authorities for checking ESTA validity.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

slitaz 9y ago

Is he developing any critical software that some would want to inject unsafe code?

VonGallifrey 9y ago
By critical software, do you also mean software that is embedded into all kinds of other software projects all over the world? Like cURL for example?

benmarks 9y ago

Denied before boarding? I'd first level blame at the airline / CBP connection, rather than a DNF entry or change to ESTA status. Curious to hear what happens. Ironic, as someone pointed out on Twitter, that likely cURL is probably used somewhere in the chain of communication!

vbezhenar 9y ago
I wrote some software for police at some moment. Years later I was visiting police station and I saw them using my software to check me. It was interesting experience.
- mrisoli 9y ago
  I worked on a state government transparency project once. It lists everything the government spends money on, including the companies they contract to do things, it was interesting seeing how much the company was making from that project and how much I was getting paid.

eecc 9y ago

Trouble is: to save face they'll just stonewall him indefinitely rather than investigating, admitting a mistake and removing him from the list.

rl3 9y ago

There's a good chance that if automated software is at least partly responsible for this, that cURL was probably used somewhere in the intelligence pipeline. Rather ironic if that is the case.

HappyTypist 9y ago
I should make a low level utility and in the license prohibit governments from denying me entry.
- tbodt 9y ago
  That clause of the license probably wouldn't hold up in court though.

Capt-RogerOver 9y ago

He seems to have tried to enter USA using ESTA. ESTA is not a visa, it's a visa-waiver program. It's specifically created as an easier method of entering a country, but as a trade-off, it says in the terms that they can deny it for any reason with no questions. This does not mean that the person cannot enter the country per se, it just means they need to apply for a real visa.

pricechild 9y ago
It's frustrating they couldn't warn him prior to the hour of travel? I find it difficult to believe they'll have rejected him for something they couldn't have contacted him about days or weeks ago. With ESTA they've got perfect contact details too? I assume he's lost the price of the flight? Travel insurance wouldn't repay it?
- daemin 9y ago
  At least they told him before he flew over. They could have done that when he actually landed, and he would have been denied entry there, then shuffled back onto a flight.
zerr 9y ago
> it says in the terms that they can deny it for any reason with no questions Same goes for any visa.
- Kurtz79 9y ago
  But in the case of a normal Visa, a certain amount of vetting is done beforehand, although you can still be denied entry. To get a J1 I had to deliver quite a few documents and go the local US embassy to do an interview there. An ESTA you can do literally 10 minutes before checking in (I did it once), I doubt anything else than a few basic automatic checks are done.
  - zerr 9y ago
    I believe the border control personnel act as if that vetting hasn't been done at all. All in all, I think this path is worse, since you get denied to entry after a long flight, and you have to flight back...

ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago

The no explanation is the worst part for anything like this. Impossible to determine what to do or what reason they had, just denied. It's not just the government either, look at how some tech companies have a policy of providing no explanation for interview rejections too. It's a lack of respect for anyone but oneself.

nothrabannosir 9y ago
> no explanation for interview rejections too. It's a lack of respect for anyone but oneself. Nothing personal Ajeet, but: for the love of God, can this trope please die? It has been widely, extensively, repeatedly, incessantly established every single time this comes up: they do it because of the unreasonably high risk of being sued. If the cards are stacked against you, the wisest move is not to play. This has nothing to do with respect. It is the logical move in an unfair game. Otherwise I agree with your post. Even that the frustration must feel similar to silent job interview rejection. I'm just getting tired of seeing this "no respect" point over and over and over and over here. My eyes are bleeding. Sorry for the expletive.
- ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
  Not personal at all, I don't for the most part need to participate in the 'game' anymore thankfully, but I still think in specific situations, perhaps a junior dev failing a technical white board interview, if they ask for feedback it should be given, otherwise they have no way of knowing what went wrong or how to improve. It takes five minutes. Being afraid of being sued is a lame excuse. I know 15 years ago it would have accelerated my career, nowadays it doesn't matter. Don't you think Daniel Stenberg should have a way of determining on what grounds he was denied and what he can do about it?
  - nothrabannosir 9y ago
    Yes for Daniel, no for companies. Either we protect them (at least slightly) more from lawsuits, OR we accept their silence. I honestly don't mind which. But it's one or the other. We make the rules, as people.

efoto 9y ago

"Don't assume malice when stupidity is an adequate explanation." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

jablan 9y ago
Who assumed malice? Does the reason really matter?
gtirloni 9y ago
My exact thoughts. The bureaucracy/machinery is so complex that it could have been any minor error in the paperwork. For a person, this is their worst day. For a huge bureaucracy, nothing.
- submeta 9y ago
  Pretty Kafkaesque
- TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
  Quite possible there's some Scandinavian criminal that happens to have the same name, for example.

chinathrow 9y ago

That's most likely because of some name collision/similarity instead of his FOSS work.

stephenr 9y ago
Quite possibly, but if so this is a weird result. I was denied automatic (i.e. scan passport, go through automated face detection machine) entry into Australia (my own country) a few years ago (at the Australian end). When i asked the border security officer why it didn't admit me, she said "you have a name similar to someone on a watch list". "Oh, I didn't think my name was that common, is it a close match?" "Not that close, no".

y0ghur7_xxx 9y ago

This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... These conferences where people around the world meet should start to be hosted somewhere else. Not in the USA anymore. Somewhere in a country that welcomes people instead of treating all of them like possible threats. Just organize All Hands in Berlin next year. Or Barcelona, or Munich, or Stockholm, or Amsterdam, or whatever. Just not the US anymore. Americans don't want foreigners on their soil. Or at least everything looks that way from the outside. Let them be that way.

nsebban 9y ago
Nice and Cannes, France are great places for conferences. We'll gladly have you guys over here :)
- baby 9y ago
  I'd rather go to Bordeaux, Montpellier or Rennes to attend a conference :)
  - nsebban 9y ago
    Those are great choices as well. Rennes is kind of a pain to get to, when coming from abroad, but the town and the people there rock !
    - baby 9y ago
      Isn't there a direct TGV from Paris?
timr 9y ago
A small percentage of Americans wants to do this. Most Americans are indifferent (as in most countries), but the reactionary party has won the day, and a total lunatic is in the White House. Sadly. But this too shall pass. Not that I disagree with your conclusion: I hope conference organizers (and other groups) do start focusing abroad. The only thing that the GOP reliably responds to is the interests of money. Start moving the tech industry abroad, and see how quickly they change course.

MotokoCMDR 9y ago

Absolutely no trouble at US airports. YMMV. Staff at JFK were professional, friendly and fast. This person may not have realized an ESTA needed in advance. He could be doing the thing people often do where they screw something up, and then, irresponsibly give a vague explanation, that they can deny later, but that leaves open to interpretation the possibility that they were somehow unfairly treated, when it might have just been their screw up. "Denied because of ESTA" --> could actually be "Denied because I didn't get my ESTA ahead of time, and follow the clearly stated requirements. Damn, I'm stupid. Everyone make sure you read the rules before you fly! My bad."

hmans 9y ago
"It's never happened to me, so it must be that guy's fault!"
- MotokoCMDR 9y ago
  Oh no I didn't say causation. But I get if pretending I did is the only way you can reply. My own version: "Guy didn't say it was his fault, so it can't be!" "People always own their mistakes, never blame others!"
justin_vanw 9y ago
Yes, these inflammatory stories surface on here from time to time. Everyone jumps from 'someone was inconvenienced' to 'totalitarianism' in 1 second with 0 information. People start calling for boycotts of the US. Later, 9 times out of 10 it ends up being nothing, but there's not a story with thousands of posts with people saying 'oh, I jumped to conclusions'. In fact people don't ever hear about the resolution, and they probably don't care to hear stories that contradict the worldview they choose to reinforce for themselves.
- MotokoCMDR 9y ago
  True. People love to play at being victims of something. They absolutely love a ripper of a story of some absolute bad villain. Even if none exists. It's amazing the fictions that masquerade as truths, while everyone is out pretending they've got a monopoly on facts. I'd laugh if it wasn't so devastatingly sad. I'm still laughing tho. Maybe the internet virtualizes/fictionalizes everything and we're all just "victims" of our own creation. Frankennet.

ckastner 9y ago

What puzzles me is that the ESTA application was approved in the first place. If they were going to deny him entry, why approve it? Could there be a more benign explanation for this issue? For example: his ESTA approval expired (it's valid for two years), or the data entered on the ESTA form did not exactly match his passport data (special characters, middle names, etc.)

ubernostrum 9y ago
The online ESTA form does not "approve" someone to enter the US. The online ESTA form is required to determine if you're in a population that's generally eligible for visa-free entry (so that the airline and other systems know whether to require a visa for you). Filling out the ESTA form does not grant a visa, does not grant the right to enter the US, and does not even guarantee you'll be allowed onto the plane. It simply says "Yes, you appear to be a citizen of a country which, in general, has visa-free entry to the US".
- germanier 9y ago
  This is simply not true (I posted the exact message it shows you at the end of the process somewhere else in this thread – it explicitly contains the phrase "approved and authorized to travel"). Yes, it does not guarantee you entry. However, it does much more than just to check whether you have a required nationality. If that were all, the system weren't needed. Practically every country has visa-free entry for some nationalities and such travel authorisation systems are very rare among them. Airline know how to check if you have one of the visa-free nationalities and do so every day everywhere in the world (probably much more reliable than having the travel fill out a form, too – they even check again in the case of the US, as we see in this example). The US introduced the ESTA system much later than visa-free travel for certain nationalities.
  - ubernostrum 9y ago
    And as I said in my other reply to you: the wording you are citing is terrible and inaccurate and you should never, ever, ever, EVER, rely on it as an exhaustive legally-binding declaration.

GreaterFool 9y ago

Recently EU parliament voted to introduce visas for US citizens due to unequal treatment of EU countries. "About fing time", I though. Few months pass and I read that EU Commission will do nothing*. I hate those bureaucrats in the EU. EU should retaliate (not of malice, just to force equal treatment). It's not a visa waiver if you can be denied entry so easily, as many people are. And of course not all EU countries are eligible.

jagermo 9y ago
I understand your sentiment and the reaction. But I think it would be wrong to have an eye-for-eye-approach. US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA. They should feel wrong why they force it onto others but enjoy the freedom to travel easily. Otherwise nothing will change. It's easy to start a "oh, they do it to us, let's annoy them even more" spiral and that would really, really suck.
- mclightning 9y ago
  > "US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA." They have been seeing it all this time, yet this is what you get.
  - pas 9y ago
    Change takes time. It's a complex problem deeply rooted in fear, mongered by people who now successfully occupied the White House. In the mean time, I agree, probably a simpler yet more aggressive tit-for-tat approach would be more fruitful.
    - GreaterFool 9y ago
      Nothing has been done about unequal treatment of EU countries in the past decade. Don't you think this is long overdue? For EU it should be a matter of principle and backbone. They simply don't have them. EU has proven several times that they will look the other way as long as it benefits larger members.

qume 9y ago

Just to balance the narrative here a bit, I have traveled into and out of the US many times per year for around 15 years with no problems on an ESTA. I only recently switched to a visa. After a long flight having to deal with the delay and hassle of immigration seems much worse than it is. I really hate it, and the comments here suggest others do too, but if you look at what we have to deal with objectively it's not really that horrible. It feels weird for me to be defending them, because of the crappy experiences over the years, but when it comes down to it I think CBP are far more reasonable than they are given credit for because of the crappy environment it happens in. If you were calmly asked the same questions by a sweet guy or girl on a chaise longue while being offered champagne and strawberries, people would have almost no problem even though it's really the same thing without the elevated stress level. Regarding Daniel - like others here I'm sure it's because cURL has been used extensively for bad purposes he was kicked off the ESTA program. Yes it sucks that they didn't let him know in advance, and they didn't have the smarts to figure that he had nothing to do with the bad actors. For me getting a visa was a pretty easy process. The interviewer in my country was a smart political science graduate and everything went smoothly. An inconvenience for sure, but hey this is another sovereign nation, why should us foreigners expect to be able to march in without playing by their rules, even if we don't agree with them. Don't get me wrong - this situation sucks for Daniel and US immigration has massive room for improvement.

GreaterFool 9y ago
> cURL has been used extensively for bad purposes What?! Sources please.
- nickserv 9y ago
  I once used it to change the user-agent and get an alternative response from an API.
  - funnyfacts365 9y ago
    badass...
- 9y ago

mrleiter 9y ago

He himself says that he does not know the reason why. It could be because of his involvement in cURL, it could be a mix-up, it could be any reason, really. As long as there is no official statement or any other formal reason, this all remains speculative and consequently unfit for solid arguments against the US immigration policy in this specific case. Disclaimer: I am a European citizen and by no means in favor of recent immigration policy changes of the US.

Sir_Substance 9y ago

Stop traveling to the US people. They treat you like shit, and they're gonna keep treating you like shit until they start losing money. Arrange these conferences somewhere else.

pavlakoos 9y ago

At least it happened before the flight...

theboywho 9y ago

People suggesting to move conferences to other countries like France or Germany are wrong: you can't guarantee that your country is not going to turn into a US-like isolationist in the future. The US wasn't and your country is also only 1-government away from being one. What we probably need is a new form of portable conferences where the location doesn't matter and/or is flexible and/or regime-proof. We should stop taking democracy and openness for granted.

theboywho 9y ago
Another idea (which I'm sure is not going to be popular but is probably a pretty good one): choose countries where the head of the state is stable: eg. Open Kingdoms, like Morocco, where the royal family is there for more than centuries and has a history showing a welcoming attitude towards international gatherings / foreigners, or where most people can get in without needing a visa.
K2L8M11N2 9y ago
>you can't guarantee that your country is not going to turn into a US-like isolationist in the future If it does, you can move the conference again. Just because it can change sometime "in the future" doesn't mean we shouldn't do it now.
- theboywho 9y ago
  I was referring to suggestions of EU as a final solution to the US issue. What you are referring to is to decide on hosting locations on a year to year basis, which joins my idea of portable conferences.
skynode 9y ago
Completely agree with this. Based on historical cycles, we're probably heading into even more protectionist times ahead.
alkonaut 9y ago
Umm just have the conference in a place that has a good climate for travel now. It's not like someone is arguing to have the conference in France because they will be a friendly democracy forever. Just now.

thepoet 9y ago

On a related note, the visa issuing system of the US sucks. I was denied a tourist visa and then issued one on reapplication in a matter of 5 days. The process is highly irregular since absolutely nothing changed between the two 30 seconds interviews except the interviewer. The only inconvenience was I had to reschedule my YC interview and throw away an additional $300 in visa form and travel cost.

ubernostrum 9y ago

Just to throw out an anecdote: a while back I nearly was denied boarding of an international flight, because it turned out the airline had mixed up my passport data and decided I was not a US citizen and would need a visa to return to the United States. I discovered this at the airport, when trying to drop off my bag. Fortunately, the airline agent was able to get a supervisor who took a look at my (US citizen) passport and fixed something in their records that allowed me to get a boarding pass and catch the flight, but I could easily have just been stranded there by someone who took the attitude of "computer says no, can't help you when the computer says no".

baby 9y ago
Oh my, I was denied as well last time I entered because the person at the border looked at the wrong page on my passport (which was a Visa for the previous year). She just told me she couldn't let me in without any fucking reason. I realized she was looking at the wrong page and had to tell her to look at the correct one. She gave me her best "I don't give a fuck" impression and let me go on my way.

op00to 9y ago

Please don't say "Americans" don't want foreigners on our soil. A minority of Americans allowed a hostile foreign government to manipulate our election process to raise a corrupt, compromised bigot to power. Most Americans want our country to be open and free. Painting every American this way does nothing to recognize the misery of this situation.

croon 9y ago
While that may be true, half of Americans weren't bothered enough to vote to stop it.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
svantana 9y ago
Well things were not much better under Obama. In the last ten years, I've had European friends denied entry, or even detained for hours on end, for the most innocuous of reasons. And regardless of what "most Americans" want, they clearly don't want it enough to make it a mainstream political issue.
- pizza 9y ago
  Yup. - W brought us the magnificent theatre of Homeland Security - Clinton cut legal immigration by nearly half - Reagan made employers "attest to their immigration status", and a crime to hire undocumented people knowingly
hedonistbot 9y ago
Please stop shifting the blame to outside forces. Losing to the most incompetent candidate ever despite the full support of the traditional media, Hollywood and the political establishment on both sides shows how bad Hillary's campaign was and how Obama failed to bring "hope and change". There should've been a torrent of resignations among the dems after this results and yet they continue like nothing happened and just shout "Russia".
- 9y ago

op00to 9y ago

We didn't elect Donald Trump. He was installed by the Russian government.

humanrebar 9y ago
Russia seems to have influenced the American voter. But non-American-citizen HN commenters weren't exactly refraining from commenting on the election out of a desire for electoral purity. Granted, the Russian approach was especially scummy, but it was American who voted for Trump at the end of the day. And for better or worse foreign speech will influence the American voter at times.
gcoda 9y ago
You age giving too much credit to Russia, it easy to blame someone else, like in Russia people blaming Obama for bad roads and high prices, and simply ignoring corruption that ruins everything. And here in Ukraine everything bad is blamed on Russia, no one in power will take the blame, it is simple to say "Putin did it"
smoyer 9y ago
Well ... Trump lied to a bunch of disenfranchised blue-collar workers and added them to the patriotic isolationists. If you weren't part of that group but had previously voted republican, you probably wouldn't vote for Clinton either. My biggest hope is that this lasts only four years (or less) and that a) the two major parties come to their senses or b) we end up with more than two viable parties. For those of us in the U.S. who are sane (but surrounded), I'll simply say "I'm very sorry Daniel". P.S. I use cURL most every day - thanks!
- pricechild 9y ago
  In your experience, has the leader of the political party opposing your beliefs always told the truth in the past?
  - dnm 9y ago
    No, of course not, but we've never seen anything like what we're witnessing today. There's reality, and then there's Trump's version of reality, and the 40% that believe everything he says, despite facts to the contrary.

0x0 9y ago

Would it be possible to change the license of cURL to one that denies usage inside the US? :P

fnj 9y ago
If you have control of the copyright, yes, you could change the license from straight GPL to any kind of customized license you want. I guess you could restrict access to any group you want. But if it's open source, it would be pretty difficult to enforce your policy. Even if you closed the source, ruining it for linux, what good would that do? The cat is out of the bag already. Anybody could just use the existing open source and fork it further as they wish.
- jordigh 9y ago
  > But if it's open source, it would be pretty difficult to enforce your policy. So, two things: (1) a license that discriminates against a particular group is not open source, (2) being open source or not has nothing to do with whether enforcing the license will be difficult. Enforcing the license is just a matter of the resources available to the copyright holders. Many proprietary licenses are routinely violated, some free and open source licenses have been enforced.
- 0x0 9y ago
  Debian had non-US repositories in the past and it didn't "ruin it for linux". Perhaps they could be brought back, with the addition of geoblocking US clients from accessing the non-US repository.

baybal2 9y ago

I was denied entry once, and I am a frequent flyer. It was at Calgary's airport. I was called out for a search. Then, border security guys spent an hour having coffee and my plane flew away. I came to them and made them have a very unpleasant conversation with me for the next hour. They summoned their higher up, who came with an official entry refusal with no reason stated, citing that he has no obligation to give one. The bastard had a badge with name R. Torres on it. Nevertheless, I flew the next day on the same airline.

caseysoftware 9y ago

Considering the various "terrorist watch lists" are basically vaguely defined names and anyone can get added trivially, without review, and without a way to challenge[1], is anyone really surprised? When it's bad enough that a sitting US Senator was stopped and interrogated because "T Kennedy" was on the list[2], we passed that absurdity threshold a long time ago. 1 - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/25/terrorist-watch-list_n_5617599.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/25/terrorist-watch-lis... 2 - http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/no-fly-mistakes-cat-stevens-ted-kennedy-john-lewis/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/no-fly-mistakes-cat-s...

vadym909 9y ago

Sorry for your troubles. In many blue states that didn't vote Trump, our votes are worth 25% of the votes of some red states. Not our fault- what was implemented to make it fair to small states is now a menace to the large states. Demagogues that cater to the GOP agenda manipulate the red-state populace like 3rd world dictators. Our only hope is for the next Dem Presidential candidate to be sensible but also capable of charming or hoodwinking the red states in some way. I thought Bernie would be good, but he's too honest. We need someone like Bill Clinton again.

baby 9y ago
Oh this has been going on before Trump took leadership.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

daveheq 9y ago

The link says I'm unauthorized to view the tweets, whatever that means.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

mariuolo 9y ago

I bet it's the "haxx" domain.