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Uber rolls out in-app tipping
- bpicolo 9y agoWhy not just raise the prices a bit again? Now I'm worried I'll get down-starred for not tipping on Uber, which is just kind of annoying. I feel like not requiring a tip is Uber's biggest differentiator
- mayneack 9y agocan the driver see your tip before rating? that would be quite the design flaw
- bpicolo 9y agoNot sure. You're probably right that they don't. It still feels crummy, though.
- RunawayGalaxy 9y agoYou answered your own question. Why raise prices and risk losing customers when they can just use widely accepted social pressure to coerce you into subsidizing their cost of doing business for free?
- horsecaptin 9y agoWidely despised social pressure.
- RunawayGalaxy 9y agoDoesn't matter if it's despised as long as it's accepted. Edit: To be clear, I am speaking from Uber's perspective.
- dgfgfdagasdfgfa 9y agoI despise how little drivers are paid. This is also accepted. What's your point?
- RunawayGalaxy 9y agoMy point is Uber doesn't care about what you despise so long as it serves their bottom line.
- dgfgfdagasdfgfa 9y agoRight—but clearly they do.
- savanaly 9y agoIt's not like they're fooling anyone though...regular users of uber will know the average outlay from using an uber is $X, whether it's through the fares charged or a lower fare plus expected tip. I would much rather have a higher fare than the stress of figuring out how much to tip. I could just decide on a tip to always give, but what about those times when the service is really shitty? Do I "get back" at them by leaving no tip? Isn't that the whole purpose of the tipping process? But that makes me feel like a shitty person, and the cognitive outlay in thinking about all of this is just annoying.
- londons_explore 9y agoI'm gonna guess they'll keep the tips secret until many hours after the journey (and when both driver and passenger have left star ratings). They might even aggregate tips for the week/month. That way, if you leave no tip, it can't come back and bite you.
- savanaly 9y agoBut it will come back to bite me in a psychological way. I don't want to feel like the sort of person who doesn't tip when tipping is expected, I want to use a service where I don't have to think about tipping and can feel like a decent person. If that service has to cost more then so be it.
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- Simulacra 9y agoThat is the best and most fair solution. You only find out your tip AFTER you've rated the passenger.
- konceptz 9y agoIt would make drivers experience worse if they aggregated tips over weeks/months. This is primarily due to the "cash me out" feature where drivers may cash out a shift immediately upon completion.
- SilasX 9y agoFor the same reason Uber originally went with the tip-free model for their service?
- RunawayGalaxy 9y agoI can only assume that was when they could more easily afford to do so.
- SilasX 9y agoNothing to do with affording, and everything to do with the latent demand from people who don't want to have to think about or handle tipping when getting a ride, which was (at least a big part of) their original appeal.
- creepydata 9y agoI actually think it was the attract customers.
- chaostheory 9y agoThis is the reason I refused to use Amazon Fresh. I'd rather pay higher subscription prices like with Prime as opposed to tipping every delivery. Even if it's optional, just the existence of the tipping feature adds social pressure.
- RunawayGalaxy 9y agoLast I checked for Amazon Prime Now, drivers are only aware of their tips in aggregate, so leaving $0 is putting pressure on Amazon to pay their drivers more. It's kindof shitty, and I don't use the service often, but if Amazon is going to give me an option on who is going to foot the bill for the driver, I will pass on that every time.
- chaostheory 9y agoI'm aware of that, and personally it doesn't matter. It only lessens the social pressure. It doesn't eliminate it.
- TYPE_FASTER 9y agoYeah, exactly. This doesn't cost them anything. If they add a button to add 10%/15%/20%, people will still just tap that instead of try to hail a cab.
- kilroy123 9y agoOf course, you'll get rated lower if you don't tip. You'll probably get 1 star every time. I would much prefer they just raise the prices a bit.
- heyheyhey 9y agoI'd doubt they can see if you didn't tip before you rated them. That would be incredibly stupid. If you're a frequent customer of a certain driver and consistently don't tip then I can see some problems there.
- ultimoo 9y agoI'd expect the driver software to let the driver rate the passenger before being shown the tip amount. Often times, I'll tip lyft drivers the next day or even the next time I open the lyft app.
- spaceflunky 9y agoUber is going to use tipping as excuse to lower payouts to drivers. If drivers get 80% of the fare now, they'll get 70% of the fare in a couple months because Uber will argue that drivers get tips now, which more than compensate for that loss.
- inverse_pi 9y agofyi this is what Lyft is already doing
- digitalzombie 9y agoRight Lyft already do this but there is no pressure because you don't have to tip right away. You get off and think about it. I was a Lyft driver for one summer. Also Lyft supposely paid more. Uber never encourage tipping and they didn't care about their driver at all. Their CEO was on the record for this. I chose Lyft because they were more friendly and they didn't treat their worker like dirt. I wouldn't ride an Uber or work for uber unless I really really have to. Most of the time I use Lyft for rides. It's a crap managed company, threat their female co worker like Donald's locker room talk. They threat their worker like crap. They did some really unfair things against Lyft. Including massive call on Lyft rides and then canceling it. They spy on their rival Lyft drivers. And they tried to steal Google's autonomous car tech. They got greedy with their expansion too.
- furioussloth 9y ago" Riders will be asked whether they would like to leave a tip when rating their driver at the end of a trip." So exactly same as Lyft. Also do not forget Lyft would not exist without uber doing most of the "shady" work they did to get around and eventually change regulations which helped ride-sharing companies to operate .
- kelnos 9y agoAnd hell, Lyft has done plenty of shady stuff, too. They're just quiet about it and have a better PR department, and have branded themselves in a much more sympathetic way.
- rzg08 9y agoDrivers will rate first before seeing tipping information.
- Consultant32452 9y agoWhat makes you think your lack of tip doesn't impact your rating now? The few Uber drivers I know expect a tip.
- objclxt 9y ago> The few Uber drivers I know expect a tip. I think this varies a lot by city. I don't know if you're in San Francisco, but it's never been my experience here that drivers expect a tip. But when I fly down to Las Vegas nearly all the Ubers I've taken have notes taped up in the back stating the driver expects to be tipped (in cash).
- Kurtz79 9y ago"all the Ubers I've taken have notes taped up in the back stating the driver expects to be tipped (in cash)." It would annoy me to no end, and I would be surprised if Uber would have been cool with that before now.
- Consultant32452 9y agoI suspect a lot of that has to do with culture. Consider how differently you might expect these three people who are expecting a tip to behave: an Italian from New Jersey, a middle class hipster in LA, and an illegal immigrant driving under an Uber account they share with a legal worker.
- rosstex 9y agoI'm more curious what happens when they walk into a bar...
- FireBeyond 9y agoWhen was this? I spent a week in Vegas in March and according to my records, 27 Uber trips. I don't recall seeing anything like that, at all.
- molmalo 9y ago
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- gberger 9y agoAnd does a user's rating matter?
- pslbill 9y agoYes,to an extent. I do not pick up low rated riders. You have to ne a real asshole to not maintain a decent rating as a rider. 4.70 is my cut off during the day. After midnight, I do not pick up anyone under a 4.8
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- djb_hackernews 9y agoThe way Uber works now is it incentivizes the driver to give you a poor rating if you don't tip. By including the tip functionality in the app, and preventing the driver from seeing the tip before you are rated, it will remove this incentive. I don't like tipping either but Uber had to do this and I'm confident the data showed it.
- londons_explore 9y agoThey will probably take some "handling fee" on the value of the tips. It'll form an income stream.
- SilasX 9y agoThe article says they aren't (just like Lyft doesn't): >Uber won’t take any part of the tips given drivers.[1] IIRC, it would also be legally dubious to do so. [1] And for the record, I prefer this phrasing to the more common "Drivers keep 100% of tips", which is not true unless they're evading taxes.
- traviscj 9y agoI'm a bit jaded on this subject, but even not-profit dollars contribute to revenue dollars, which helps secure future funding. So not "not any part of the tips", just a complicated hedging game on those tips.
- furioussloth 9y agoI used to tip in cash to avoid the bad rating especially if I am travelling to airport and have heavy luggage. I hate carrying cash and this is a very welcoming change. Anything that would make them look less evil(Although i don't think they are any worse than most companies.) is a good PR move.
- kelnos 9y agoI have literally never given an Uber driver a tip -- and have used them for many, many airport trips, and overall have easily taken more than a thousand rides since I joined in early 2012 -- and my rating is currently 4.87. Perhaps you live in a market where Uber drivers are aggressive about asking for tips, though, which is not the case in SF.
- lhorie 9y agoI think ultimately this is a good thing. If this gives drivers a bigger incentive to use Uber, that will translate to more drivers on the road, and lower surge pricing for riders.
- Simulacra 9y agoI deleted Uber and installed Lyft after riding in a car in Portland where the driver had discreetly tucked a dollar bill in the console as a tacit cue to tip. I hate tipping. I avoid situations where I have to tip, or get pressured to tip.
- furioussloth 9y agoI don't get your point. With lyft you are explicitly asked to tip. But delete uber anyways because of one bad driver; sounds like a fair argument. /s
- distances 9y agoNote that deleting the app isn't enough. You should also explicitly close your Uber account.
- orblivion 9y agoWhat if they had a default auto-tip you could set? And then if you had an exceptionally good or bad ride you could adjust for that case.
- wolco 9y agoI don't like the idea. Many will feel like they have to tip. This is one of the orginal features that helped drive customers away from cabs.
- cft 9y agoI always preferred Uber to Lyft because of no tips.
- myko 9y agoI agree - like many commenters here I'd rather see higher prices than tips.
- Simulacra 9y agoWasn't there some court case where Uber was told they could not ban tips?
- kemitche 9y agoFunny, I prefer Lyft because tips are optional, and since it's integrated in app, I never have a Lyft driver begging for a cash tip.
- opportune 9y agoNow I'm going to start using Lyft again. The tipping model is terrible and given the option I'll always shy away from it. Even though Lyft has the same feature, they pay better, so I don't feel bad for not tipping them. Also having to deal with some of the shadier/creepier drivers expecting tips sounds like something I'd rather not deal with.
- seattle_spring 9y agoYou're going to switch to Lyft, which has had a tipping model for ages, because a competitor is just now adding tipping?
- opportune 9y agoI realized that and just edited my post
- mikeash 9y agoSure. If Lyft is otherwise better, and Uber is getting rid of the one thing that keeps me using it, doesn't it make sense to switch?
- aquadrop 9y agoPerfectly logical if that was main reason not to use Lyft, now on a leveled field Uber may seem worse and Lyft wins the business. No tipping was kinda big difference for Uber.
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- n42 9y agoAgreed, this is the only feature that kept me from using Lyft. Given every other reason not to use Uber as of late, now that the two platforms are basically the same, this is probably what does it for me.
- licensekey 9y agowhy not just ignore the tipping option, you don't have to.
- vthallam 9y agoThe most important feature I liked in Uber relative to lyft was no tipping. Why not spike the price up a little and compensate them. When they have started, the motto was, "Uber - Your private driver" and it was truly like that until today I tip the driver like every other service you get.
- prostoalex 9y ago> When they have started, the motto was, "Uber - Your private driver" and it was truly like that Are cash tips expected on Uber Black? My understanding is that segment operates on much more generous rates than cut-throat UberX.
- untog 9y agoThe irony is that people have tipped their private drivers as long as they've existed.
- SamLevin88 9y agoWhy are people up in arms over this? Being able to tip on Lyft is one of my favorite parts and from what I've read and understood, it generally favors the drivers. You don't need to tip immediately, a nice little dialog pops up with pre-configured amounts, and you can go above and beyond if you had good service
- objclxt 9y ago> Why are people up in arms over this? Because in the US tipping isn't for good service. You tip 15% for regular, average service. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to pay a flat, quoted rate for getting from A to B.
- nym 9y agoIt adds friction to the process for getting from A to B. Cabs 1. Find a cab 2. Hail the cab 3. Get in cab 4. Decide what to tip the cab 5. Pay the cab driver 6. Get out of cab vs Uber (without tipping) 1. Hail the uber from phone 2. Get in uber 3. Get out of uber You could make the argument that tipping is optional, but deciding not to tip is still a decision making step.
- drzaiusapelord 9y agoThe main reason I use Uber is so I dont have to get into this weird passive-aggressive social situation with drivers over tips. Just raise the prices. Tipping my uber driver is like tipping my McDonalds teller. If pay is an issue just raise prices. Tipping is just something abused to keep base prices low. It makes no sense outside of dishonest pricing schemes. Also do these drivers really want me to base my tip on the quality of their driving? I find most uber and cab drivers are unsafe and frankly, shitty drivers.
- fullton 9y agoI can't wait for Uber to apply the restaurant model as an excuse to underpay their drivers even more. "Our drivers depend on your tips, please leave at least 15%."
- andrewmutz 9y agoI really don't like our tipping culture and enjoyed avoiding it with Uber. I'd be happy to pay 20% higher prices across the board in order to avoid tipping.
- wcummings 9y agoYou can just tip 20% every time, its done through the app so its not really any more work, maybe one additional finger tap when you're rating the driver.
- thereare5lights 9y agoand that removes the social pressure how?
- wcummings 9y agoMaybe I'm just oblivious but this isn't a problem for me.
- thereare5lights 9y agowelp, time to pack our bags, if it's not a problem for wcummings, then clearly it's not a problem for anyone.
- colept 9y agoI'm happy for drivers but not a fan of this change. In Los Angeles I booked a ride and the driver never showed up. After cancelling the ride I got the $5 charge and luckily their support took care of it. But tipping is something that needs to go away. I liked Uber despite their troubles because I was paying for a service and the minimum viable product is that the driver gets me from point A to point B safely. Now what's in a fare? An opportunity to get in a car to pay more money for them to do their job.
- dwg 9y agoNot having to deal with tips is THE reason I never bother checking Lyft. Now I guess I have no reason not to check both. Smart move Uber? Aside from that, this is terrible news to me. The tip system is so flawed. 99% of people in America do not consider tips optional, but service here is no better for it. I want to pay a fair wage. I don't want to tip. Is there simply no market for this?
- kneel 9y agoTipping in the US is guilt driven and has very little to do with service. This is Uber's attempt pass on the burden of compensation to their passengers. Uber rides just got a little more awkward.
- Simulacra 9y ago..and apparently originated with slavery. http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/04/restaurants-tipping-racist-origins-saru-jayaraman-forked/ http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/04/restaurants-t...
- abvdasker 9y agoIf you've ever talked to a driver this is the thing they always say they want Uber to change. Props to Uber for listening, even if it took them a while.
- nym 9y agoWhat if they just got paid more?
- abvdasker 9y agoTipping, if done right, is a better solution. Some fraction of customers today want to tip without being prompted as an expression of gratitude or appreciation. Some fraction of those customers don't have cash and are then unable to tip their drivers because the app didn't provide a mechanism to do that. This gives riders that option without hurting Uber's bottom line. Paying drivers more is all well and good, but an increase in fares on the rider side would reduce marketplace demand and might actually hurt drivers more than it would help. The alternative is for Uber to eat the cost of paying drivers more, but that simply isn't viable for a company that's already losing as much money Uber does. Put simply, Uber is a business that can't really afford to pay drivers more. There's a lot that could go wrong with tipping and it remains to be seen whether Uber rolls this out everywhere, but it's possible that this could end up being a feature where everyone wins.
- ck425 9y agoEveryone wins except the riders. And possibly the countries where there's no absurd tipping culture and that starts to encourage it.
- xutopia 9y agoI hate, hate, hate tipping! Just charge me what it costs to give them a living wage and I'm happy!
- mabbo 9y agoThis is a really terrible idea. It's not that the drivers don't deserve money- far from it. It's that you now have a company that is desperate for cash, and it is the one who tells the drivers how much they made in tips. What's to stop them from skimming the tips? Oh, not too much, not enough that anyone can really point it out, but just a little bit, right? And let's not all pretend that a company as morally grey as Uber isn't willing to do it either. They'll write some legal bullshit into the contract, force all drivers to either agree to it, or stop driving, and then claim that everything they did was legal and therefore ethical.
- briffle 9y agoThey don't need to skim off the top of tips, just follow what restaurants do, and cut back on wages, since 'they get tips too'
- BoiledCabbage 9y agoFor something that is supposed to be friction free, tipping really runs against that. We all know that next there are going to be the subtle and not-so subtle encouragements from drivers to tip. Then the expectation to tip. This move seems to only confuse me as a consumer, create something else for drivers to be annoyed about (the tips they receive vs what uber claimed they'll see), and adding an additional cognitive layer in payments. I don't see the lasting benefit here. Just increase prices or increase driver share of payout.
- JoshTriplett 9y ago> We all know that next there are going to be the subtle and not-so subtle encouragements from drivers to tip. Then the expectation to tip. That already happened, with passive-aggressive comments about how you can tip in cash. > I don't see the lasting benefit here. Just increase prices or increase driver share of payout. There's a clear perceived benefit to Uber: PR with drivers, perceived improvement as a company (as opposed to having to fix hard corporate-culture issues), and the ability to keep the "advertised" price lower. (Of course, they're missing that they've now abandoned one of their major differentiators from their lead competitor.) But there's certainly no lasting benefit to customers. Tips should be for extraordinary, stand-out service, not a customary hassle in every transaction.
- prostoalex 9y agoLyft seems to have nailed it - the tip is not necessarily immediate (and can be added 3 days later), and the payout to the driver is in a single anonymized chunk, so it's not easy (or too late) to track the rider to the tip amount.
- furioussloth 9y agoUber is giving you 30 days to tip the driver . They will also be giving single aggregated chunk at the end of day or week.
- nym 9y agoOne of my favorite things about Uber was not having to deal with tipping. Pay them a fair wage with fair prices.
- mtgx 9y agoTerrible decision. Tipping is harmful culture in the long term. It leads to employees (drivers in this case) being paid less than they should be "because they will be tipped anyway" and it gives customers anxiety about tipping. Plus, the employees will start to expect tipping or treat you badly, especially if their employers consider tipping as part of their salary. Just a lose-lose situation.
- nullnilvoid 9y agoHow does this make Uber the nice guy if the riders tip drivers, not Uber? Uber still takes a cut of up to 25% of the fare. Anyway, riders can always tip drivers with small cash.
- jdc0589 9y agoscrew this; charge a fair price and pay people a fair amount. Relying on the random generosity of customers to pay your employees/contractors/indentured-servants a fair wage is a bullshit business model (yes, I am aware this is how the restaurant industry in the US survives).
- fullshark 9y agoHate this as a consumer.
- j4kp07 9y agoWow. There are a lot of people in here that have never worked in the Services industry or done the math for an Uber driver's take home pay after taxes/gas/maintenance. It's ironic how the same people who say they don't mind paying a higher price vs tips, are choosing Uber because they are cheaper than a Lyft/Taxi.
- aquadrop 9y agoWhy do you think those are the same people?
- magic_beans 9y agoI'd easily use NYC taxis if they had an app and payment system as convenient as Uber's. I HATE having to tip, but wouldn't mind paying higher to have it included in the price; I also abhor the taxi TV nonsense blaring in NYC cabs.
- wcummings 9y agoI never used Uber when I lived in NYC, its actually more work than hailing a cab there IMO.
- _1 9y agoI don't take Uber because it's cheaper ... I take it so I don't have to worry about a "broken" credit card reader, getting an accurate receipt, or worrying about what is considered a "fair" tip. With Uber, I assume if the driver accepts the trip, then they are okay with their cut from Uber.
- TuringNYC 9y agoThis is an anecdote, but I do not choose an Uber because it is less expensive. I choose Uber because it is easier than hailing a taxi. It provides more certainty. You dont need to fight other people on the street for a taxi. You dont need to wait 30minutes for a cab to arrive (or never arrive) despite the dispatcher saying "5 minutes." You dont need to begrudgingly hand a $20 note for a $6 ride to a cabbie who "doesn't have change." You can reimburse corporate trips because the cabbie is never out of receipts. There are so many reasons I use Uber rather than traditional taxis.
- horsecaptin 9y agoNow that we can track driving habits, would it not make sense to put them all on salary and set standards for employment?
- manigandham 9y agoAfter thousands of uber tips, 100% of my drivers have said they enjoy the freedom and ability to work when and where they want without commitment. Employment destroys all of that and would mean many of them would lose this income source. If people do want to drive full-time, that job already exists. There are numerous places to work as a commercial driver. In fact, Uber Black leverages exactly this and is routinely serviced by companies that employee full-time drivers. The fact that many drivers don't choose to be full-time professional drivers is far more telling than the tiny but whiny minority that seem to not realize what rideshare driving is.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- bengyusf 9y agoTipping does not increase the service you get from someone. It just makes the customer feel guilty or pay more. Look at Publix: Rated No. 1 in the Temkin Customer Experience Ratings and No. 2 for Customer Service. But Tipping their baggers, even if they help you out to your car, is against company policy.
- SilasX 9y agoWell, there goes my last reason for using Uber. I had been really excited that they were the one oasis pushing back against the tipping culture[1]. Particularly troubling is the framing: >Uber is enabling passengers to tip its U.S. drivers with a tap on its ride-hailing app for the first time, part of a push to recast itself as a company with a conscience and a heart. What? As if anyone preferring that a service be upfront about prices is "heartless"? Anyone who doesn't want tip jars at the grocery store checkstand or bus farebox is heartless? All of Europe and Asia are heartless? As if all of the alternatives for increasing driver compensation are heartless? (Higher payouts or the Sidecar drivers-set-prices model.) [1] Before anyone says it, yes I know you have to pay more for a tip-free service; I'm not an idiot. I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with the lack of consistent, clear, compatible expectations it involves, and being stuck in the position of either a) overpaying, b) making a silent faux pas, or c) having negative feedback misinterpreted as stinginess.
- linkregister 9y agoYeah, all the tipping advocates are probably not aware that most countries don't have tipping. Restaurant staff are paid according to local wages. So a racial minority won't be paid less than someone from the majority race. European and Australian restaurant staff aren't depending on arbitrary tips. They know exactly what they are going to make at the beginning of their shift. They don't feel like they're working for peanuts for rolling napkins or putting chairs on tables. It's probably not a bad idea to just select the $0 option when the tip screen shows up... until drivers start insisting on seeing you enter your tip before awarding your 5-star rating.
- wcummings 9y agoI think most restaurant staff split tips, so no one will be paid less than anyone else if they get low tips.
- linkregister 9y agoI don't know what percentage of restaurants do that. From my anecdata, few restaurants do it. Also, California law prohibits it.
- amelius 9y agoIn restaurants, when a waiter is tipped, the kitchen gets part of the money. How would that work with Uber? Will programmers receive part of the tip money?
- smeyer 9y ago>In restaurants, when a waiter is tipped, the kitchen gets part of the money. That practice is highly dependent on the restaurant and locale. In many places, it's illegal to require the waitstaff to pool tips with the kitchen. https://www.eater.com/2016/2/26/11119264/restaurants-tip-pooling-banned-ruling-court https://www.eater.com/2016/2/26/11119264/restaurants-tip-poo...
- Simulacra 9y agoNot always. Depends on the restaurant.
- SilasX 9y agoNot usually; it's illegal to require a tipout to the kitchen in the US: http://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com/operations/advice-guy/back-house-tipping-policies http://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com/operations/advice-gu...
- johnbrodie 9y agoThis might be region dependent, but was not true at any restaurant in the US I've worked at. Sometimes, bar staff and busboys were tipped out (at a much lower percent than what the wait staff kept), but I've never seen kitchen employees get tipped out.
- BoiledCabbage 9y agoI love this tidbit > Riders will be charged by the minute if they keep an Uber car waiting for more than two minutes. And will riders also be reimbursed for waiting for drivers? it seems all to frequent now that Ubers arrive significantly after their estimated time. Other times I get drivers that somehow don't move for 5 mins after reserving and yet accepted a ride. And there is now no way to cancel out of this within 5 mins. Now you need to do so within two mins.
- Simulacra 9y agoI encounter this problem all the time in the suburbs. Finally a driver let slip why: He was asleep. They park their car outside their homes, and they go to sleep. Then when the phone alerts them to a fare, they open their eyes, accept the fare, then they get dressed, etc. go put gas in the car, maybe some breakfast, and then come and get you.
- ProfessorLayton 9y agoI really liked Uber's no-tip policy as it really did make the whole experience frictionless. That being said, I believe Lyft pools tips from riders to avoid a tit-for-tat ratings, and drivers to not know if a rider tipped for a particular trip. If Uber follows that model, then perhaps this is a reasonable middle ground.
- DanielBMarkham 9y agoHow do people describe Uber? Hey look, it's an app. You push a button and a car shows up. There's no fooling around with calling a company, figuring out a tip, carrying the correct change, worrying about the quality of the ride. You just push the button. They are destroying their unique selling proposition. I can already push buttons and screw around with cab companies and drivers. I was looking for better than that. Uber's supposed to be no hassle. What the fuck, guys?
- blizkreeg 9y agoA rhetorical question: what would it take to build a not-for-profit but 'capitalist' platform like Uber with all the features that exist today (reviews, ratings, scheduled rides etc) where drivers just pay a monthly subscription fee (say $25-100 based on earnings?) and take the entire earnings of the ride? I understand the marketing costs of getting drivers and riders on the platform but end of the day, if the drivers are going to make more and riders get a similar experience, it would be an obvious choice to switch, wouldn't it? Put another way, why isn't anyone doing it? I hardly believe that Uber/Lyft's model has a wide defensible moat.
- londons_explore 9y agoIt does have a wide defensible moat: Critical mass. Drivers won't use the app if there are only a handful of rides per day, and passengers won't use the app if the nearest car is 15 minutes away.
- blizkreeg 9y agoIt appears as a wide moat but I'd wager that in reality it's not. The key factor being unlike most networks, economics rule Uber and Lyft's platforms. That's a massive incentive. If as a rider, I can get a $5 ride for $4 with a similar experience and the driver knows he can make every last penny of that $4 (instead of $3), I don't see why eventually it wouldn't convince them to switch.
- SilasX 9y agoSomeone built it and it was discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13529213 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13529213 http://libretaxi.org/ http://libretaxi.org/
- wcummings 9y agoA taxi-ride futures exchange
- sidcool 9y agoAh. Tipping enforcement everywhere. And those who oppose the compulsion are branded cheap.
- pricees 9y agoThis new direction is backwards. Pay the drivers what they are worth. How hard is that? Seriously. How hard is it to just give an honest wage for honest work? WashPo: "[Uber] recast itself as a company with a conscience and a heart." Correction: Uber is passing the conscience and heart part onto its users so that it doesn't have to. Now I am going to feeling like jerk when I don't give someone a tip. That was my favorite part about uber. Don't make think about taxes and tip. How silly would it be if Uber was a restaurant? WashPo: "Restaurant shows magninimity by allowing patrons to supplement the low wages of the restaurant with a tip of their own!" Progress.
- pm24601 9y agoFor Uber's price structure -- very hard. Uber's "farebox recovery" is a lower percentage than most public transit agencies.
- linkregister 9y agoI used to abhor the in-app tipping option in Lyft. But increasingly I would be asked to tip cash by drivers when I used Uber. My rating started to get lower as the cultural expectation to tip cash took hold. It turns out the Lyft model, where the driver doesn't know whether or not the rider tipped, is better for the rider. The rider doesn't have to carry cash in order to avoid getting extorted for a 5-star rating. Tipping culture in restaurants is subsidizing substandard wages for servers. Tipping culture for taxis and the gypsy cab apps (Uber, Didi, Lyft, etc) doesn't have to take hold. Maybe now that the option is in-app, riders will eventually stop using it. I hope, at least, that the tipping option is confined to U.S. rides. The rest of the world doesn't need to get infected with it.
- Simulacra 9y agoThis is precisely the reason I switched from Uber to Lyft. I never carry cash, even though I desperately wanted to tip that Uber driver who picked me up at the subway station in the middle of the night and dropped me off at my house 20 miles away. I appreciate this option, even if I don't always use it.
- walshemj 9y agoWhy never carry any cash? I can see not wanting to carry large amounts but what if your card or cards fails and you are left stranded.
- Simulacra 9y agoMainly because it's difficult to obtain. My bank has precious few ATMs. Typically if I really need cash I have to get it out of the old El Banco de CVS/Walgreens/7-Eleven in the form of cash back. All of my pay is directly deposited and so I rarely have the opportunity to interact with cash.
- Simulacra 9y agoThis is precisely the reason I switched from Uber to Lyft. I never carry cash, even though I desperately wanted to tip that Uber driver who picked me up at the subway station in the middle of the night and dropped me off at my house 20 miles away. I appreciate this option, even if I don't always use it.
- inverse_pi 9y agoUnpopular opinion: I hate the tipping culture but I love this change. Here's why: I never rate the drivers right after the trip unless the ride is REALLY good or REALLY bad. If it's really bad, I want to express my anger. If it's really good, I want to give the driver compliments. 90% of the times when I get out of an Uber, I just ignore the app until next time I use it. So to me personally, this is completely different from regular tipping.
- rasz 9y agoTipping is the consequence of making your working class earn below the living wage.
- nxsynonym 9y agoTipping culture needs to die. It's gross and unfair to put the burden of payment on the customer. It does not improve service, only lets business owners skate by with paying their employees like dirt. Restaurant workers, drivers, doormen, valets, whatever - they are doing real work and should paid as such. If they have a bad attitude then they should be fired. It should be not up to the customer to 'reward' good behavior. Uber was already dead in my eyes. I don't love that Lyft even has a tipping option, but at least it's optional. Why not cut the salaries of the execs (who, as it's been proven, are worse than useless) and compensate the workers better?
- deer 9y ago> Why not cut the salaries of the execs I'm afraid that's an executive decision.
- furioussloth 9y ago> I don't love that Lyft even has a tipping option, but at least it's optional. It is going to be exactly the same with Uber's tipping.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Simulacra 9y agoWOW! This must've taken a monumental amount of effort, thought, and engineering. Why else did it take so long to add tipping? Bravo, Uber. Still goes to show a massive startup can still innovate. -slow clap-
- ubertossaway1 9y agoI don't want tipping to be a thing. I'm also hoping that it doesn't impact how the driver will rate me after-the-fact. I use Uber to commute in Seattle (often both ways) and have encountered repeat drivers. Will they give me a lower score now that they realize I'm not tipping them? Not tipping is what made Uber more simple and required less effort on my part. Tipping a taxi driver was annoying and this will be annoying too. I was also wary of using food delivery app services for the longest time because of the tipping. I am glad that I can just do a $5 tip (or whatever) + built delivery fee IN THE CHECKOUT PROCESS and not worry about it AFTER they have showed up at my doorstep with the delivery. TLDR: I don't want to tip because it requires more effort and consideration from me as a rider after the fact. I will not tip like this. As an aside, I've tipped an Uber driver ONCE before because it was a distant airport ride and he helped with the very heavy luggage my girlfriend and I had. I gave him cash. +For whatever it's worth, I tip waiters and stylists very well. I don't have anything against tipping itself, just this kind of implementation into an app service where it didn't have tipping before.
- hungerstrike 9y agoThis change probably won't make me any more or less likely to use Uber. The main thing that keeps me away from Uber is their terrible UX. Getting a ride is way too streamlined - every single time I have used the Uber app (infrequently), I was not sure if I had committed to requesting a ride yet. This is the most annoying thing. Also there is no obvious means of scheduling a pickup time. Lyft UX is a lot better and the company seems to not be run by assholes, so I like to support that whenever I can.
- anth1988 9y ago> and a $2 “teen fare” addition for trips on teen accounts yay for blatant ageism. Never gonna tip on Uber. Sorry, but it's a huge part of the appeal and I'm not giving it up.
- Lanzaa 9y agoIf this is Uber's way of being more like Lyft I don't think it will help.
- criddell 9y agoIt can't hurt. The ability to tip was the first reason I started using Lyft. Uber being a terrible company is the reason I stayed there.
- justboxing 9y agoI don't use Uber or Lyft, but if I was, this would drive me away from Uber. From what I hear from my friends who use Uber, 1 reason they love it is because all the charges are through the app and there is no "obligation" to tip, so it's 1 less decision them have to make, i.e. calculate how much to tip, keep wondering if you tipped the driver too much, or too little, what's a "fair" tip for the ride etc etc.
- xyzzy_plugh 9y agoLyft already has tipping.
- snowwrestler 9y agoAnd it's incredibly easy and low stress, all done through the app.
- xyzzy_plugh 9y agoWhich is identical to what Uber just added?
- snowwrestler 9y agoYes and my point is that it is not hurting Lyft's growth. It's not hard for people to use--which was what the GP was speculating about.
- Jedd 9y ago> Yes and my point is that it is not hurting Lyft's growth. That's an opinion, not a point. There's little data available to support the assertion, other than that Lyft has been, and still is, a smaller organisation and less less popular globally, and hasn't been growing as fast as Uber. Ultimately you can't compare the success of Lyft-with-tipping to Lyft-sans-tipping since one doesn't exist. > It's not hard for people to use--which was what the GP was speculating about I agree with others (mostly non-US residents, I expect) insofar as I don't think it's hard to physically tap an extra button on my phone, but it's additional cognitive bother that didn't exist yesterday. It de-differentiates Uber from its competitors (this doesn't really matter to me, but it does make the background to the decision more interesting).
- withdavidli 9y agoThey're charging teens more?? The people who earn the least if any at all... is there a special teens services that I'm not aware of? And who asked for tipping besides drivers? Hate the concept. Charge us more or split the fare with them better.
- mtanski 9y agoThe Uber driver in my neighborhood complained that the teens call up the cab to go 2 or 4 blocks. They are trying to emulate their parents and seam like a baler to their friends.
- lojack 9y agoThey need to raise the minimum fare for that then. Making teens pay more seems ridiculous to me.
- mtanski 9y agoI don't know if that is the cause of it; it's just one data point I heard (last year). I'm actually curious what drove the increase. Since they are still in cost undercutting and competing mode I doubt it's just "because they can". I wonder if it has anything to do with economics (higher insurance rate) or what. According to this article: https://www.geekwire.com/2017/uber-drivers-sound-alarm-teen-rider-program-call-additional-protections/ https://www.geekwire.com/2017/uber-drivers-sound-alarm-teen-... "Uber says teen rides will only be booked with experienced drivers who have received consistently positive reviews." So maybe the pool of drivers is smaller for teen accounts. Also, teen accounts are not teens paying for it. But an account a parent can designate for the teen and they pay for it.
- withdavidli 9y agoDrivers have to retain a 4.5 star rating to remain drivers I thought. I think that's a good enough bar. But I guess understandable if they're limiting to 4.9s+ It would be a good business model, like women can request women only would be a premium.
- CiPHPerCoder 9y agoI've already been tipping Uber/Lyft drivers in cash since I first used either service. I'm not sure how I feel about Uber being able to collect data on tip collection.
- always_good 9y agoI used Uber to move across the city recently. Since I don't have much, I just needed a few SUV trips. Each time the Uber driver got out and helped me load up his car, and then he helped me unload. I tipped them with cash except in one case where I just didn't have bills small enough (wasn't thinking). This is nice.
- kimsk112 9y agoI agree that this is nice. I travel often with big luggages and always appreciate when drivers got out and helped loading in and out of the car. Tipping via the app makes my life easier as I don't need to worry about carrying small bills anymore. But if I have small bills, I will give them cash instead.
- djyaz1200 9y agoTipping sucks because then the driver wants to build a relationship with me instead of letting me just zone out or check email or something. I don't want to have a single serving friend every time I need to go somewhere.
- cjslep 9y agoThat kind of disconnect and isolation is really well explored in the movie Fight Club: "Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends."
- baddox 9y agoIsn't that just making the same point, that pretending to be friends with an obviously very short-term acquaintance is silly?
- aaronbrethorst 9y agoIt's not about "pretending to be friends." It's about making a connection to another human being.
- snowwrestler 9y agoWhy would this happen? Drivers know their riders. I use Lyft, which has had in-app tipping for a while now. In DC, most of the Lyft drivers are chatty. Last time I visited SF, none of the drivers were chatty.
- rrradical 9y agoI actually really enjoy talking to my driver. They usually have a very different background than me. Maybe they recently immigrated from another country, for example. And it's neat to hear a bit about their life. If you think of interacting with another human as a chore, then it will be a chore. But if you think of it an an opportunity to learn, then it can be very rewarding I think.
- clamprecht 9y agoDon't Make Me Think. Charge me more if you must, but don't make me think.
- HappyTypist 9y agoExactly. Add $1 to every fare and remit that without taking a cut. There!
- ryan-allen 9y agoI think I'd just rather 'tip' the taxi directorate instead. This completely changes the Uber experience.
- throwaway055 9y agoPosting on a throwaway because of tipping stigma. I take close to 1,000 Uber trips per year. The biggest disappointment about this change to me is that I won't be having conversations with Uber drivers anymore. Uber drivers will now be obligated to make pleasant conversation with me. I have no interest in speaking to somebody who's obligated to make pleasant conversation with me. When you add tipping, you're essentially attaching a financial penalty to sincerity. All economic arguments aside, it's just not right to penalize someone for being in a bad mood that day or not wanting to talk to you. We force these workers to maintain these totally fabricated upbeat emotional states and we act like it's normal. It's not normal anywhere else in the world, and I can't stand it. Every time I see someone making conversation with a waiter or waitress, it honestly seems rude to me. They have to talk to you, they have to agree with you, they have to smile and laugh at your joke. By having a conversation with them you're forcing them to do all of these things, and if they don't, you're going to take money off their tab. That is just rude. Uber will have access to all the data related to tipping, the fare splits will be adjusted accordingly, and Uber drivers' pay will normalize to exactly what it already would have been without tipping.
- eridius 9y agoIf Uber drivers' pay ends up at exactly what it was before this, I think Uber's going to have a big problem as all their drivers ditch the platform. Uber already pays their drivers shit, there's no way they can justify taking even more of the money from each ride away from the driver. As for whether they should tip in the first place, this wouldn't be a problem if Uber charged enough to begin with. But they got into a price war, with a company that does do tipping already, and they simply don't charge enough now to pay the drivers enough.
- HappyTypist 9y agoUber's margin on a ride is already 35-40% in US cities (source: UberPeople), thanks to their 'upfront fares' pricing (rider fare is not used for calculation of driver fares at all, drivers are paid per mile/km and min), their Booking fees, UberPool pricing disparities, and Surge disparities (a rider paying a 1.5x surge does not necessarily mean a driver is receiving 1.5x).
- mrslave 9y agoI have gleaned - from such authoritative sources as TV - that tipping appears to be a large part of customer service culture in the USA. (Though I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it varies by region. Because the USA is just New York and California, right?) I think this will have a negative effect on the experience of both driver & rider in countries where tipping is unusual, due to the increasing ambiguity of the fee. Especially if ratings become contingent upon tip. It also seems to not fit the model. In a dining establishment there is a three party arrangement (restaurateur, customer, and server) and the assumption that the best way to motivate servers is to create a separate financial relationship between them and the customer. Uber already has well defined payments for all three parties, and channels for rating drivers and riders.
- baddox 9y agoMy impression and experience is that it's pretty widespread in the US, although I've heard that the specific per-service expectations vary. I've never been anywhere in the US where tips weren't expected for sit-down restaurant waiters.
- mercutio2 9y agoExtremely fancy restaurants are moving away from tipping. Everywhere else in the US, tips are expected and depended on by restaurant staff. In California workers are at least paid minimum wage, ignoring tips, but in most states, restaurant workers are almost entirely dependent on tips to earn a living wage. It’s a terrible system for a variety of reasons.
- snowwrestler 9y agoUber obviously knows where its drivers and customers are, and can show or hide in-app tipping based on that if they want to. In fact the article says they are rolling it out in only 3 U.S. cities to start.
- Animats 9y agoThen there will be a "suggested tip". Then Uber will try to take a cut.
- m1sta_ 9y agoThis news has ruined my day. The sooner we get autonomous cars the better.
- losteverything 9y agoTipping helps people who need it. It is simple. Voluntary. Binary. A $1 or $2 tip may not seem like much, but if it gets saved (which often tip receivers do) it adds up. Like found money. Do uber drivers make a lot? Could $1 $2 $3 help them? It is not about guilt. It's not about service quality. It is not about greater things. It is about helping someone who most likely needs it. You could get on a high horse and make grandiose statements - all for a few dollars!! Tip receivers know the types that never tip. And types that tip big. And types that cant afford to tip. Dont over think Tipping. I never wish anyone financial hardship but if you ever experience it you will know how greatful a small or large tip helps.
- oconnore 9y agoTipping exists because employers (in this case Uber) don't pay enough. Not tipping once you are already stuck with that system doesn't solve anything, but expanding that system makes things worse.
- snowwrestler 9y agoUber repeatedly and forcefully reminds the world that it does not employ its drivers, they are independent contractors to whom Uber is providing a service: matchmaking with riders. According to Uber, when you get in a car, that driver is actually working for you.
- snowwrestler 9y agoI wish this comment was higher. I think it's a bummer to see developers who make way over the national median income complain they "don't want to think" about maybe giving a couple extra bucks to people who could use it.
- losteverything 9y agoI used to never tip. I thought of tipping as a review of their work. Good service:18% ok service:10% crappy service: lousy tip. Then i got displaced. Bartending introduced me to the tipping "infrastructure" and lifestyle. Then making deliveries. I think developers just can't feel until my way about tipping until they lose their jobs. It is not they are assholes - just not worldly.
- cocktailpeanuts 9y agoIt is sad that companies like Uber are being pressured into making these stupid decisions because of "social justice". For me the main benefit of using Uber (as well as all other on-demand services like Doordash, Caviar, etc.) was that everything is included and I don't have to think. Companies like Uber should be focused on building a product that consumers want and nothing else. These decisions are nothing more than the company being bullied (by the media and activists) into making politically correct decisions that brings NO benefit to any parties involved, including the drivers. If anyone thinks this will eventually be beneficial for the drivers they're short-sighted. It's just turning Uber into a Taxi experience.
- smt88 9y agoUber is building a product consumers want. That product must have a brand that consumers don't find repugnant. You seem to want a free market, but not a market that prioritizes things (e.g. tipping) that you don't care about. You can't have it both ways. The market has spoken and Uber has responded.
- cocktailpeanuts 9y ago"I really hope I can pay more to get from A to B", said nobody. Also I don't know where your assumption "The market has spoken" comes from.
- pheldagryph 9y ago> "I really hope I can pay more to get from A to B", said nobody. Oh, that's me! Here's a few reasons I'd want to have the option to pay a driver a bit more: - I forced them to drive a stressful route - I forced them to drive waaay off the beaten path - They helped me schlep large items in/out of their vehicle - I inconvenienced them somehow to where it makes their next ride a bit less likely to tip / star (like making a mess in the car) > The market has spoken A driver and I recently discussed this change, and our conclusion was: "finally!". Tipping is the custom in the USA for exactly this kind of job. Making it inconvenient or impossible to tip inside the app is like garnishing drivers' wages. Some drivers really really do deserve to benefit more from their labor, and some riders really do owe their drivers a bit more.
- whiddershins 9y agoI am so unhappy about this change. I tip well everywhere it is expected, restaurants, bars, cabs etc. I hate the system but it is factored in to the price and there's nothing I can do about it. What I loved about Uber when it started was there was no ambiguity. Prices were predictable, as were wait times. Zero cognitive overhead. No guilt or internal debate. Over time every little thing I loved about Uber was taken away in the name of lowering prices. Agitation about driver wait times. Wildly fluctuating cost of rides. Wildly varying rider wait times. Drivers canceling undesirable trips. And now tips. It's just one little thing, but it's the death of what I valued in their service. What if instead of all these nitpicking changes, they kept the fares a bit higher and simply paid the drivers a bit more? I guess in their calculus that was unsustainable. So basically the people who were penny pinching trying to get the cheapest rides drove lower prices so now I will tip (probably too well) and underwrite those same people who will likely also not tip because they will decide it is optional.
- z6 9y agoI don't think raising the fares would have any impact in the drivers' desire to have a tip option. Tips are free money and widely acceptable in the US, so who wouldn't want that. Since Uber lost a recent lawsuit wrt tipping, I've been on multiple rides where the driver has a tip jar. So I much prefer the in-app tipping compared to having a physical tip jar in the car.
- creepydata 9y ago>Tips are free money and widely acceptable in the US, so who wouldn't want that. Tips are not "free money," they drive down salary thus they move compensation from the employer's responsibility to the responsibility of the customer. The more tips you get the less you get paid.
- zamalek 9y agoI'm not sure how to feel about it too. While I will be tipping (when actually using Uber), after I initially wondered why Uber didn't allow tips I concluded that the drivers could become unfriendly about it. They are not yet aggressive about ratings here (South Africa), but I've heard horror stories from the US. I agree completely. Not only woulld this all go away if they are paid better, but they would likely be more motivated and friendly.
- ilaksh 9y agoThey were winning by just screwing the drivers out of tips -- it was never actually factored into the fares. I have no car and always use Uber so this is not good for me but it is less unfair to Uber drivers.
- adrianmonk 9y agoWell, there goes the only thing I thought Uber did better than Lyft.
- bogomipz 9y agoI ask this because it is my understanding that drivers can and do rate passengers on Uber(not sure about Lyft.) Is it possible that someone who doesn't tip what the driver believe is enough or if they don't tip at all they will receive a bad passenger rating now, even if they are courteous and respectful? I had some hope that the tipping parts of the world would maybe move away from the practice and just pay people what they are worth: https://www.eater.com/2017/1/12/14250128/danny-meyer-tipping-hoax-slavery https://www.eater.com/2017/1/12/14250128/danny-meyer-tipping...
- mikeklaas 9y agoUsually these systems are set up so the driver rates before they find out what the tip is
- bogomipz 9y agoI see, that would make sense. Thanks.
- skewart 9y agoLyft drivers can't see if or how much any particular rider tipped. The tips just get rolled into their overall payment. They can rate passengers.
- adjkant 9y agoI find it quite ironic that the majority of comments here seem to be against this addition and switching more people to Lyft who haven't already switched for moral reasons. By trying to become a better company and treat drivers better, they scared off the customers who didn't care about that. I'm sure this will get downvoted because I'm implying that people already should have switched for moral reasons, and a lot of people don't care apparently, even when many here can financially afford to pay more. All of these anti-tipping comments clearly have not used Lyft. The Lyft culture versus Uber's from a passenger perspective is so much better. No, you don't have forced conversations like people here think will happen. People forget that Lyft was originally pushing being the more authentic company from the start. In my experience, the drivers respect this too, and almost every driver I've talked to prefers Lyft riders (even when I'm taking an Uber due to Lyft unavailability). The tipping option means I can pay my driver more if he helps me unload a bunch of luggage/boxes (I've had to take an Uber to a storage facility years ago and had to use a 3rd party credit swipe app to tip my driver for all the extra work) or some other scenario. There's no tipping mention in Lyft rides, while I've seen it often in Uber rides. It's there for when you need it, and isn't something I really consider much. Is 1 second of thinking really too much? Efficiency isn't that important people. I agree that tipping ambiguity is a pain sometimes. The remedy is taking the 3-5 min to learn the culture for common tipping scenarios. If you spend that time, the answer is pretty clear here. The feature comes in handy far more than it causes pain, speaking from the epxerience of myself and others.
- thanksgiving 9y agoSorry but I find Lyft irrelevant because the writing is on the wall. They will not exist as an independent company in the next decade. Any culture that get may have will die if GM gets control of the company.
- adjkant 9y ago1. It doesn't look like Uber will at this point either. Lyft is partnered with Waymo already - seems like pre-acquisition to me. 2. You cite zero evidence. Your speculation isn't very convincing from what I have seen anecdotally, which it seems like is all you're going off of. To me, Lyft is surging in popularity in the US and is on the upward trend as everyone jumps ship from Uber, drivers and riders alike.
- avdempsey 9y agoI'll break-down tipping for the neophytes. Yes, by George Orwell's account, tipping was considered repugnant by no less than the anarchist defenders of Catalonia in the Spanish Civil War. But you feel bad not tipping when expected and you want to know what to do. 1. Tip your bartender at least $1/drink. Maybe tip $3 if you got two drinks. Maybe $2 for one of it's something fancy. 2. In SF, tip your waiter 20% for good service, 15% for adequate service. 3. Tip at least $5 for delivery. If a bartender gets $1 for handing you a beer, the delivery person deserves $5 for driving to your home and bailing you out of cooking. 4. Tip $2 for an adequate Lyft/Uber. $1 if you feel pinched. When to tip more? Like being in love, you'll just know.
- avdempsey 9y agoTrying to decide if you should talk to your driver? Let them take the lead. If they launch into talking, and you feel like talking too, go for it! If they're quiet, let them work. Worried they're only talking to you for the money? Try to find out what their interests are and engage them. None of this should impact your tipping decision.
- adjkant 9y agoMy tipping practice for Lyft/Uber has been that it's optional, as it is for most. It's stated directly in the Lyft app. I tip more or less about 20% of the time, all for something that goes beyond simply going from A to B. Otherwise, on point.
- sambe 9y agoThis seems like a complete inversion of the service incentives. The initial reason to use Uber was huge convenience and service quality. Uber Lux/Exec (or whatever they call it now) offered a vastly superior service to taxis for a ~20% price increase. Service is kept honest via ratings, prices are acceptable for that quality increase. Drivers were polite and looked after you (no music, water etc.). Uber X then comes in to compete with mainstream taxis (fair enough) but overall quality drops across the entire service. Now you get rated (for sitting?) and must compete with other passengers on tipping, whilst service quality continues to drop. Not tipping for bad service lowers your rating dramatically, so you have to tip for mediocre/bad service and sneak in a bad rating, which increasingly has little effect. It used to be that I could not find an Uber with less than 4.8, because you couldn't last like that as a driver. I now regularly getting mediocre service from ~4.5. My immediate feeling is that I should stop using Uber almost completely, risk normal taxis ripping me off occasionally (knowing your city helps) and only use Uber when really needed (no taxis around, urgent etc), tipping then.
- imgabe 9y agoLook, you can't have demand based pricing AND tipping. If you think I'm adding 20% onto a 2.5x surge fare, you're out of your damn mind. The pricing is dynamic based on supply and demand. If the fares are too low, that means there's too many drivers and not enough riders. So, if it's not worth it at that time...don't drive. Prices will go up until drivers decide it's worthwhile to drive. If they're out they're driving, that means they've decided the price available at the time is worth it to them.
- sirteno 9y agoI can see this potentially leading to a lot of poor ratings for riders who don't tip enough. And "enough" in cities like New York is IMO totally skewed.. I hope they implement it in a way that prevents this behavior; e.g. show aggregate tip stats to drivers, make tip amount visible only after rider rating.
- pm24601 9y agoIf people want to tip -- use cash.
- creepydata 9y agoAwful, absolutely terrible. Translation: "We will no longer pay our drivers, we will guilt you into doing it."
- creepydata 9y agoCute little narrative you got going there but I don't see any evidence from the article to support it. Since tipping is not actually "politically correct," it's racist, sexist, and classist (1), it's a big lose for the advocates you blame. It seemed they were under pressure from regulators, not social justice activates. I think this is the money quote >Conigliaro said the guild forced the introduction of tipping by putting pressure on regulators. New York’s Taxi and Limousine Commission is weighing a proposal that would require in-app tipping, and is expected to hear reaction from riders and drivers at a public hearing on July 13. They also introduced some sort of surcharge for teens as part of this change, so you believe thats also the fault of "social justice" too? (1) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dare-you-to-read-this-and-still-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dar... http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1110&context=articles http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic... http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/minimum-wage-activists-call-tipping-racist/article/2619073 http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/minimum-wage-activists-cal...
- cocktailpeanuts 9y agoI think you make great points, thank you. Only regrettable thing is the phrase "cute little narrative" you used. The comment would have been excellent even without pulling me down. I think the point i was trying to make was that it's sad that Uber is making decisions that are against user experience. They used to be able to push through all this because users loved the product. But nowadays they've lost a lot of power because of all the controversies. The reason Uber became popular in the first place was because they built something that was great for the users. If they cared about these little regulations back then, they wouldn't be here and we would still be stuck with the shitty taxi system. I remember when startup people used to look up to Uber as the poster child for being ruthless just to provide great user experience. Now the narrative has changed even though they are not doing anything different. The new narrative is that Uber is a law breaking sexist organization, and everybody likes to hate Uber. If Uber still had the same reputation as back then, I don't think they would be introducing features like this, which a lot of people will hate.
- joelrunyon 9y agoIs there a non-washingtongpost link? The fact they block their entire site if you use an ad-blocker is ridiculous and makes me want to have an alternate source every time.
- Larrikin 9y agoI don't think they do? I use ABP and the only time I can't view their site is when I've used up my 10 free articles for the month.
- ajarmst 9y agoJust to get this straight: people were OK with the abductions, assault and stalkings; opposition research and personal threats against journalists; distasteful and probably illegal practices against competitors like booking fake rides; illegal surveillance of officials charge with regulating them; predatory surge pricing; classifying workers as independent contractors to avoid paying benefits or following fair employment laws; ties to Trump; rampant sexual harassment and toxic bro culture... But tipping is a deal breaker.
- ahallock 9y agoWas tipping included for Uber Eats? That's where it was definitely needed. I don't think it's a great feature for the ride service, though.
- dbg31415 9y agoTipping ruins the rating system. Just flat out destroys it.
- sr2 9y ago"Why Tipping Should Be Banned", by Adam Ruins Everything is worth watching if you are of the school of thought that tipping is bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k The gist of the video is that if you're tipping, then a waiter/waitress for example is not being paid enough, and tips are deliberately designed to bolster their unfair income.
- davidf18 9y agoBecause of political restrictions of the number of taxi medallions to only 13,000 for a city of 8.5 million, taxi rates in NYC were extremely high compared with the rest of the nation. Taxi medallions were worth $1.2 million benefiting owners of medallions and credit unions that offered mortgages on them. For example, Uber is 90 cents per mile in Chicago, but twice that at $1.75 mile in New York. When Uber/Lyft came along to relieve the politically induced shortage while easily able to improve customer value by offering more vehicles and at lower prices, the value of medallions went to $700,000 or less and drivers stopped driving Yellow Cabs choosing Uber/Lyft instead. Apparently, people are not required to tip, nor can they receive a bad score if they don't. But Uber sold customers a bill of goods which said that tips were automatically included in the fare, not that there are no tips.