15 ms·

Casper, Mattress Maker, Raises $170M and Plans I.P.O

104 points by peterkshultz 9y ago

accountyaccount 9y ago
good luck, there are like 10 clones out there already
- mccolin 9y ago
  Does that not prove the market?
  - accountyaccount 9y ago
    It proves there's nothing special about Casper — their market sways entirely amongst competitors by who has the best deal on an almost identical product. It's like selling entry-level Windows laptops. The average consumer doesn't give a shit.
- peterkshultz 9y ago
  "It's exceptionally rare for startups to be killed by competitors—so rare that you can almost discount the possibility." - Paul Graham (http://paulgraham.com/startupideas.html http://paulgraham.com/startupideas.html)
  - Pulcinella 9y ago
    Yes we all remember when Facebook failed to defeat MySpace...
    - wmichelin 9y ago
      One example is not indicative of the larger picture
      - Pulcinella 9y ago
        App.net lost to Twitter. Netscape lost to Microsoft. Yahoo lost to Google. Ouya lost to Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. Coin lost to existing payment cards...
        lumisota 9y ago
        The sentence that follows the quote is "So unless you discover a competitor with the sort of lock-in that would prevent users from choosing you, don't discard the idea.". Most of the winners in the examples you gave had insurmountable lock-in (network effects, etc).
        gruturo 9y ago
        App.net lost to itself. I know of exactly one person who decided to pay money, and it's my friend who'd buy/try anything once. Try to charge money in a space that's free, in return for..... I don't really know tbh, is a recipe for suicide. It may have worked in the 2 weeks of the novelty effect, and that's it.
      - visakanv 9y ago
        There was a period of time where I used both MySpace and Facebook, and preferred MySpace – but the user experience kept getting shittier, it kept getting laggier, spammier... MySpace killed itself
    - paulcole 9y ago
      Also how MySpace failed to defeat Friendster.
      - WillPostForFood 9y ago
        Did you listen to the recent Startup podcast series on Friendster? The folks at Friendster definitely saw MySpace as one of the nails in their coffin.
    - adamnemecek 9y ago
      The quote is right. The only enemy of your startup is yourself. MySpace fucked up in so many ways that it's surprising that they managed to remain somewhat relevant until around ~2010 or so.
    - ericd 9y ago
      The point is that you're very unlikely to get to that spot, and you don't have to think about that in the beginning. And even then, if you focus on your own company and execute well, you generally don't have to worry about your competitors - it's yours to lose.
  - anonymoose111 9y ago
    it's a little different when mattresses are essentially a homogeneous good
    - seppin 9y ago
      branding, marketing, etc.
- timr 9y ago
  Casper itself is a clone. There were/are at least two other foam mattress companies in San Francisco alone selling the same thing years before Casper existed.
02thoeva 9y ago
In the UK, Eve, a rival maker also just (around a month ago) IPO'd here in the UK. Their figures are scary at the moment, with a CPA hovering around £250-£300 and returns of 15% on the mattresses with the 100-night trial. All that with an average order value was only £450, on a product people buy every 10 years! They lost £11.3m last year on earnings of £12m, so no wonder their shares have been on the decline since IPO. The mattress market may be big, but there are so many clones - surely only one or two can win out.
- beager 9y ago
  That is a staggering CPA vis a vis product cost. Is that just based on the congestion of keyword bidding? Or does CPA actually mean conversion/sale and the path to close is very difficult? I feel like Amazon could swoop in with a competitive offering and obliterate the competition, if marketing and acquisition were the only barriers to success. They've also got a lot of distribution infrastructure they can leverage, which seems like another large hurdle. What competitive barriers can companies like Casper or Eve put up? Can they put up any? And how should that affect inclinations toward IPOs and valuations? Anecdotally, I've only ever seen Casper marketing on the NYC subway. Never anywhere else. I enjoy the creative, but have no inclination to buy the product, neither now nor the time that I will need to buy a new mattress.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    Amazon is scary, startups can develop a new product and spend millions on consumer education and establishing a market, working out kinks, etc, and once it's proven Amazon can simply swoop in and dominate the market (almost any market with their breadth and network advantages).
  - ojbyrne 9y ago
    Or Ikea.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 9y ago
    Part of the success of Casper is the lack of choices - this is briefly touched on in the article. They seem to want to take the Apple approach - offer few choices and do them right, charging a healthy premium along the way. I don't see any competitive advantage that Casper offers beyond that - Amazon and WalMart have similarly lax return policies as Casper without the premium. I can likely get the same quality mattress at one of the two above retailers for slightly above half-price of the equivalent Casper offering. I do see Casper billboards in Austin in the Domain, which is a mid-to-high tier shopping center where the demographic skews younger. I've also heard ads on podcasts. So they are advertising, though it doesn't seem like they are targeting the typical channels for a mass audience, but rather are marketing to the younger demographic.
smaili 9y ago
Any owners here care to share what Casper's "killer app" is?
- DrJokepu 9y ago
  Their products are more affordable than much of their competition, they are very comfortable and easy to assemble. They only have online retail presence, no physical retail locations. The only thing I dislike about my Casper mattress is that sitting on the edge of the bed is a bit uncomfortable.
  - baddox 9y ago
    Their "niche" market of direct sales and delivery of foam mattresses already seems pretty crowded. I was in the market last year, and after some research it seemed like there is very little difference between the offerings from Casper, Leesa, T&N, Purple, and others.
  - vidoc 9y ago
    Plus they surf the 'ethical marketing' wave very big time. e.g: If you buy a mattress from us, we'll donate one to someone in need. TLDR -> You can only buy 2 mattresses from us and we will only give one to you, cash in the moral benefit of being 'good', possibly get tax exemption on your dollar. And btw, by doing this we don't just insult your intelligence, we also kill the competition as there are people competing on the market for people in need already. Fun hint, I remember shopping for a mattress few months ago, eventually seeing their ads following me everywhere I'd go on the internet for a few weeks. But not only that, 2 days later I received an actual letter with a 'deal' from Casper. Long story short, casper no thanks!
    - jseliger 9y ago
      Which is interesting, given this: https://sleepopolis.com/blog/casper-sues-sleepopolis-with-federal-lawsuit/ https://sleepopolis.com/blog/casper-sues-sleepopolis-with-fe... . Someone else posted it in this thread.
  - 9y ago
jecjec 9y ago
When undifferentiated foam gets this valuation, we are at the top.
nope123 9y ago
So we can say in retrospect that the biggest bubble in Silicon Valley started in the foam industry.
tdeck 9y ago
Worth listening to this story from Marketplace: Why are there so many mattress stores? https://www.marketplace.org/2016/05/02/world/why-are-there-so-many-mattress-stores https://www.marketplace.org/2016/05/02/world/why-are-there-s... Basically, mattresses in the US are sold at a very high markup (couple hundred times the cost) so it's an easy way to make money.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  > Basically, mattresses in the US are sold at a very high markup (couple hundred times the cost) so it's an easy way to make money. then, is there any reason why no-one disrupts the market with cheaper mattresses?
  - austenallred 9y ago
    That's what's happening
    - hueving 9y ago
      Where? I want a cheap good mattress and Casper just seems to be expensive.
      - koolba 9y ago
        There are plenty of cheap yet decent foam mattresses on Amazon. Check out the "Lucid" ones. They have a variety of firmness to choose from ... I don't use it as a daily sleeper but slept on one recently and it was quite nice. Plus it's one fifth of the price of Casper or traditional inner spring ones. If you really want to score a deal on one, find the one you want and track it via CamelCamelCamel. The prices change daily and if you're patient, you can get it for 30-35% less than the top line price.
      - brianwawok 9y ago
        Casper is 20% of the price of the mattress store. Is your price target like $50 for a queen?
joshuamcginnis 9y ago
I got a sour taste in my mouth for Casper when I learned of their Federal lawsuits against affiliate bloggers who reviewed their product. I personally felt like Sleepopolis's review of Casper was as fair and observational as one could get with such a thing. Lawsuit Details: https://sleepopolis.com/blog/casper-sues-sleepopolis-with-federal-lawsuit/ https://sleepopolis.com/blog/casper-sues-sleepopolis-with-fe... Casper Mattress Review: https://sleepopolis.com/mattress-reviews/casper-mattress-review/ https://sleepopolis.com/mattress-reviews/casper-mattress-rev...
- xor1 9y ago
  I had no idea about this lawsuit, that is horrible. Fuck Casper.
- Mindless2112 9y ago
  That's irritating. I bought a Hyphen mattress based primarily on a comparison of the mattress reviews on Sleepopolis. Kudos to him for fighting the lawsuit.
- Hydraulix989 9y ago
  That is absolutely insane, this "unlawful" review is as informative and objective as it gets: https://sleepopolis.com/mattress-reviews/tuft-and-needle-vs-casper-mattress-reviews/ https://sleepopolis.com/mattress-reviews/tuft-and-needle-vs-... You shouldn't be able to sue someone for writing a review, this reeks of violating one's First Amendment rights.
  - jackvalentine 9y ago
    Reading the complaint (https://sleepopolis.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/caspers-amended-complaint.pdf https://sleepopolis.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/caspers-a...) it looks like Casper is suing them for not disclosing their referral links are referral links whilst alleging that they steer people away from products they don't get good referrals on. I have no idea about the basis or any of the details but it's not just "wrote review, got sued".
halestock 9y ago
For those looking for a new mattress, I'd highly recommend Thr Mattress Underground[0]. It's an unbelievably comprehensive resource for mattress reviews and discussion, and goes into great detail about the mattress industry in general (and the "disruptors" including Casper, among others). [0] https://www.themattressunderground.com https://www.themattressunderground.com
- smacktoward 9y ago
  Another great resource is Sleep Like The Dead: http://www.sleeplikethedead.com/ http://www.sleeplikethedead.com/
- jaequery 9y ago
  i am on my fourth mattress, i took advantage of the 3 - 6 month trial periods with these new online delivery mattress companies. :) if any more of these keeps popping up, i could probably have a free mattress for whole 2 years! i'm sorry but i'm just very picky i guess. :/ i've tried so far: casper, leesa, lull, and ghostbed. honestly, lull is the best one so far for me. it has the most tempurpedic style cushy feeling where your body seem to melt. i was most disappointed with ghostbed with casper not too behind. leesa was also good too imo. next i want to try is purple. gotta love this new trend, hope there are more of these in other categories.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - sushid 9y ago
    This, IMO, is extreme. I know it's nothing illegal and the cost of doing business, but you've tried four mattresses already. You're costing all of these companies real money with seemingly no real motivation to purchase the mattress as you already have yet another mattress on your list. You might benefit from reading up on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem and I hope these mattresses stores create some sort of a shared blacklist of customers to prevent freeloaders like you. This is how the average consumer loses generous return policies from places like REI and Costco.
ronack 9y ago
I shared a cowork space with some of the founders when they were struggling with a previous soon-to-fail startup. It's inspiring to see how things worked out the second time around.
- kayhi 9y ago
  What were they working on?
interfixus 9y ago
Yet another little corner of life where I'm left wondering out in the dark. Absolutely not denigrating anyone's preferences - it's just that I simply don't get it: Give me a slab of foam rubber - and maybe give me a new one after five or ten years - and I couldn't be happier. Fancy mattresses range - in my limited view - from quite on a level with foam down to way too squishy.
- xor1 9y ago
  Where do I get a slab of foam rubber? I'm definitely not interested in spending money on a mattress, and I need to upgrade my size soon...
  - interfixus 9y ago
    Some sort of furniture outlet. Even IKEA, I think. They still call them mattresses, only, they're 20 bucks, not hundreds of them. Mind you, you'll be in for some pretty seroius HN downvoting. Not the done thing :)
    - xor1 9y ago
      Any chance you can link me to an example? are you talking about a topper? e.g. https://www.overstock.com/Bedding-Bath/Splendorest-3-inch-Slab-Memory-Foam-Topper/7338448/product.html https://www.overstock.com/Bedding-Bath/Splendorest-3-inch-Sl...
      - interfixus 9y ago
        Sorry, no, not really. My local list of retail outlets probably won't help you all that much, unless you happen to be stuck in my Danish vicinity :)
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > I simply don't get it...give me a slab of foam rubber I drink my coffee black and my espresso unadorned. I'm not "wondering out in the dark" why some prefer a cappuccino or venti frappé whatever-the-crap. People have different preferences.
diogenescynic 9y ago
I tried a bed in a box from another well rated brand and didn't like it. Felt fine for a few days but gave me back problems after a week. I think there's a reason hotels aren't using these foam mattresses--most people don't like them. I see this as a fad to be honest, but I could also be wrong.
- brianwawok 9y ago
  I have had my foam mattress for going on 10 years. Its great. Very important not to go too soft. You need more dense foam after the top few softer inches. Im not sure bed in a box can ever fit this dense of foam. My foam mattress is 300 pounds and would take a really big box.
anilshanbhag 9y ago
Is it me or does anyone else fine $550 twin size mattress insanely expensive ? On amazon[0] you can find so many options under $100. I had one of these and used it for two years - it was still good in the end. [0] https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=twin+mattress&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Atwin+mattress https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3...
- refurb 9y ago
  Yes! I'd love to find out what the cost of manufacturing is. I'm sure the margins on $500+ mattresses is pretty high. That said, a family member did give me a mattress a while back and wow, is it ever nice. They had spent close to $3000 on it. It was king size (which allow is great when you have a partner), but it was also foam over coil springs. Super comfortable. Before I would have said there was no difference in mattress quality when you get much over $500, but I take that back. Now whether the added quality is worth it, I'm not sure. No matter how comfortable this mattress is, there is no way I would spend $3000 on it.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    I just use a high-end futon mattress with a featherbed on top and have been more than happy with it for a couple decades. That said, I sometimes stay at hotels that make a particularly big deal about their mattress and bedding and they can be very comfortable.
- lewisl9029 9y ago
  I moved into a new apartment not too long ago, and I was initially thinking of getting a Casper for my new bed, but ended up going with one of the higher-end foam mattresses on Amazon instead for ~$200: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0125QZQNW https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0125QZQNW I've never tried a Casper, but this $200 mattress is by far the most comfortable mattress I've ever slept on. It's honestly very difficult for me to imagine how a Casper could justify its $400+ premium for someone who's even slightly price conscious. Maybe someone who has tried both a Casper and a $200~ foam mattress on Amazon can shed some light on the differences.
shanev 9y ago
I did a ton of research on mattresses when getting a new bed two years ago. Casper was my first choice since I heard so much about it from my startup friends. I wanted one that was biodegradable with no off-gassing. I took a deep dive into Casper's safety claims and it opened up a whole can of worms. I've never seen an industry with so much greenwashing. The organizations that certify the mattresses as being safe are comprised of the suppliers themselves. They are basically chemical companies pushing cheap non-biodegradable foam with crazy markups under exotic brand names. Casper just sells this cheap foam with questionable safety standards like everyone else. The only standard I found not to be shady was GOTS [1]. I ended up making my own mattress from slabs of organic latex. It was cheaper and more comfortable than the Casper anyway. Now when I have guests over I can easily remove a layer and have another temporary mattress. They ship compressed and rolled up in boxes which were way smaller than the Casper one. (Btw, the box advertised in Casper ads and in their showroom is nowhere near the size of the actual delivered box. It's massive). If you don't want to make your own, here's a good one: https://sleeponlatex.com/products/natural-latex-mattress https://sleeponlatex.com/products/natural-latex-mattress. [1] http://www.global-standard.org http://www.global-standard.org
- realdlee 9y ago
  any recommendations on making your own foam mattress?
  - shanev 9y ago
    Check out the DIY threads here: https://www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-forum/index.html https://www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-forum/index..... You usually have some kind of firm base, a middle layer, and a soft top layer. I went with a firm latex layer (44 ILD), a medium latex layer (30 ILD) [1], and a wool topper [2]. Very comfortable with good support, and a decent amount of bounce. [1] https://sleeponlatex.com/products/natural-latex-mattress-topper https://sleeponlatex.com/products/natural-latex-mattress-top... [2] https://www.holylamborganics.com https://www.holylamborganics.com
    - Already__Taken 9y ago
microcolonel 9y ago
I'm not convinced that a mattress is even a useful product. I have been mattress free for about a third of my life and it's basically fine. The best argument for sleeping on a bed that I've heard is "chicks don't dig it", which has not been my experience, certainly not once you get through the door. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
- xor1 9y ago
  What are you sleeping on instead?
  - Neliquat 9y ago
    I would imagine a hammock or the floor. I have friends that prefer both.
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    Anything with about a centimetre of firm foam is fine. Yoga mats, work mats, etc.
orliesaurus 9y ago
I wonder how their 100 nights warranty works. Do they just come and pick the mattress back from your house if you don't like it and do you get a full refund? Anyone who bought it can explain? Are there hidden fees?
- schmookeeg 9y ago
  We tried em in Los Angeles. Called on day 89, said we didn't like it -- they asked us if we had a preferred charity to donate the used mattress to, we said nope. They sent it to some homeless shelter apparently. Refund came right back to the CC as promised. No hassles at all. Not even much of a retention script, really. This was early 2016. We sent it back because it was already starting to "set" and create a weird ridge between my wife and I, who are side-sleepers. It's not for us, but the company treated us just fine and as-promised. $0.02
  - frenchpress 9y ago
    So Casper sent someone to pick the mattress up from your home? Were you required to prep or pack it up before they would take it away?
    - doughj3 9y ago
      When we returned ours, Casper coordinated pickup via the nearest Salvation Army who sent a truck to our place. We did not need to pack it up at all.
majewsky 9y ago
I'm going to be in the market for a new mattress soon, so might as well "Ask HN": Can anyone recommend a mattress with a reasonable price that I can buy in Europe (Germany, specifically)?
- joshvm 9y ago
  All these trendy mattress companies have 100 day free trials. My advice is to try them all and pick the one that you like the best. I have a Leesa which is good (I tried Casper previously), it's also available in Germany. https://www.leesa.de/ https://www.leesa.de/ Reasonable price though? Perhaps not... someone else posted a link to a DIY site though, which is probably worth trying. All these companies are basically selling you three or four layers of off the shelf foam.
bgdkbtv 9y ago
How the fuck!?
wonder_bread 9y ago
How much R&D does Casper do in developing their mattresses? Seems like they're more of a marketing experiment than a "bedtime is back" sleep revolution.
mpermar 9y ago
My inlaw family does run a mattress distribution company. They have represented many brands over the last 30 years. There is one thing that never changes, you get what you pay for. So before buying into the whole "cut the intermediaries", "mattresses have big markups", lies - yes, lies, I'd advice to do a lot of research and see what you buy. I've run the idea of moving the family business to a similar online model to what casper, eve and others are doing, with similar prices, margins, etc. multiple times. and we always drop this idea off because it's impossible to sell in the prices these companies do and sleep well with yourself, i.e. these guys have the same margins but they sell pretty basic mattresses with a 5 years ( if you are lucky ) lifetime under regular use.
draw_down 9y ago
The only way to buy a bed that makes sense to me is to go to the store and lay on them all, then buy the one that feels best. I don't understand apps and websites for this. You will sleep on it every night, for years!
- dagw 9y ago
  I did that as well when buying my last bed, but I do genuinely wonder how rational it is. Is there really any correlation between how comfortable a bed is to lie on for 30 seconds and how comfortable a bed is to sleep on after a couple of month.
  - draw_down 9y ago
    Certainly more correlation than whatever you can gather from casper.com.
dmode 9y ago
A company that sells expensive mattresses over the internet raises that much money ? And is doing an IPO ? This is literally internet gone mad. Mattresses are commodity products trying very hard to differentiate themselves.

104 points by peterkshultz 9y ago

accountyaccount 9y ago

good luck, there are like 10 clones out there already

mccolin 9y ago
Does that not prove the market?
- accountyaccount 9y ago
  It proves there's nothing special about Casper — their market sways entirely amongst competitors by who has the best deal on an almost identical product. It's like selling entry-level Windows laptops. The average consumer doesn't give a shit.
peterkshultz 9y ago
"It's exceptionally rare for startups to be killed by competitors—so rare that you can almost discount the possibility." - Paul Graham (http://paulgraham.com/startupideas.html http://paulgraham.com/startupideas.html)
- Pulcinella 9y ago
  Yes we all remember when Facebook failed to defeat MySpace...
  - wmichelin 9y ago
    One example is not indicative of the larger picture
    - Pulcinella 9y ago
      App.net lost to Twitter. Netscape lost to Microsoft. Yahoo lost to Google. Ouya lost to Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. Coin lost to existing payment cards...
      - lumisota 9y ago
        The sentence that follows the quote is "So unless you discover a competitor with the sort of lock-in that would prevent users from choosing you, don't discard the idea.". Most of the winners in the examples you gave had insurmountable lock-in (network effects, etc).
      - gruturo 9y ago
        App.net lost to itself. I know of exactly one person who decided to pay money, and it's my friend who'd buy/try anything once. Try to charge money in a space that's free, in return for..... I don't really know tbh, is a recipe for suicide. It may have worked in the 2 weeks of the novelty effect, and that's it.
    - visakanv 9y ago
      There was a period of time where I used both MySpace and Facebook, and preferred MySpace – but the user experience kept getting shittier, it kept getting laggier, spammier... MySpace killed itself
  - paulcole 9y ago
    Also how MySpace failed to defeat Friendster.
    - WillPostForFood 9y ago
      Did you listen to the recent Startup podcast series on Friendster? The folks at Friendster definitely saw MySpace as one of the nails in their coffin.
  - adamnemecek 9y ago
    The quote is right. The only enemy of your startup is yourself. MySpace fucked up in so many ways that it's surprising that they managed to remain somewhat relevant until around ~2010 or so.
  - ericd 9y ago
    The point is that you're very unlikely to get to that spot, and you don't have to think about that in the beginning. And even then, if you focus on your own company and execute well, you generally don't have to worry about your competitors - it's yours to lose.
- anonymoose111 9y ago
  it's a little different when mattresses are essentially a homogeneous good
  - seppin 9y ago
    branding, marketing, etc.
timr 9y ago
Casper itself is a clone. There were/are at least two other foam mattress companies in San Francisco alone selling the same thing years before Casper existed.

02thoeva 9y ago

In the UK, Eve, a rival maker also just (around a month ago) IPO'd here in the UK. Their figures are scary at the moment, with a CPA hovering around £250-£300 and returns of 15% on the mattresses with the 100-night trial. All that with an average order value was only £450, on a product people buy every 10 years! They lost £11.3m last year on earnings of £12m, so no wonder their shares have been on the decline since IPO. The mattress market may be big, but there are so many clones - surely only one or two can win out.

beager 9y ago
That is a staggering CPA vis a vis product cost. Is that just based on the congestion of keyword bidding? Or does CPA actually mean conversion/sale and the path to close is very difficult? I feel like Amazon could swoop in with a competitive offering and obliterate the competition, if marketing and acquisition were the only barriers to success. They've also got a lot of distribution infrastructure they can leverage, which seems like another large hurdle. What competitive barriers can companies like Casper or Eve put up? Can they put up any? And how should that affect inclinations toward IPOs and valuations? Anecdotally, I've only ever seen Casper marketing on the NYC subway. Never anywhere else. I enjoy the creative, but have no inclination to buy the product, neither now nor the time that I will need to buy a new mattress.
- mistermann 9y ago
  Amazon is scary, startups can develop a new product and spend millions on consumer education and establishing a market, working out kinks, etc, and once it's proven Amazon can simply swoop in and dominate the market (almost any market with their breadth and network advantages).
- ojbyrne 9y ago
  Or Ikea.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 9y ago
  Part of the success of Casper is the lack of choices - this is briefly touched on in the article. They seem to want to take the Apple approach - offer few choices and do them right, charging a healthy premium along the way. I don't see any competitive advantage that Casper offers beyond that - Amazon and WalMart have similarly lax return policies as Casper without the premium. I can likely get the same quality mattress at one of the two above retailers for slightly above half-price of the equivalent Casper offering. I do see Casper billboards in Austin in the Domain, which is a mid-to-high tier shopping center where the demographic skews younger. I've also heard ads on podcasts. So they are advertising, though it doesn't seem like they are targeting the typical channels for a mass audience, but rather are marketing to the younger demographic.

smaili 9y ago

Any owners here care to share what Casper's "killer app" is?

DrJokepu 9y ago
Their products are more affordable than much of their competition, they are very comfortable and easy to assemble. They only have online retail presence, no physical retail locations. The only thing I dislike about my Casper mattress is that sitting on the edge of the bed is a bit uncomfortable.
- baddox 9y ago
  Their "niche" market of direct sales and delivery of foam mattresses already seems pretty crowded. I was in the market last year, and after some research it seemed like there is very little difference between the offerings from Casper, Leesa, T&N, Purple, and others.
- vidoc 9y ago
  Plus they surf the 'ethical marketing' wave very big time. e.g: If you buy a mattress from us, we'll donate one to someone in need. TLDR -> You can only buy 2 mattresses from us and we will only give one to you, cash in the moral benefit of being 'good', possibly get tax exemption on your dollar. And btw, by doing this we don't just insult your intelligence, we also kill the competition as there are people competing on the market for people in need already. Fun hint, I remember shopping for a mattress few months ago, eventually seeing their ads following me everywhere I'd go on the internet for a few weeks. But not only that, 2 days later I received an actual letter with a 'deal' from Casper. Long story short, casper no thanks!
  - jseliger 9y ago
    Which is interesting, given this: https://sleepopolis.com/blog/casper-sues-sleepopolis-with-federal-lawsuit/ https://sleepopolis.com/blog/casper-sues-sleepopolis-with-fe... . Someone else posted it in this thread.
- 9y ago

jecjec 9y ago

When undifferentiated foam gets this valuation, we are at the top.

nope123 9y ago

So we can say in retrospect that the biggest bubble in Silicon Valley started in the foam industry.

tdeck 9y ago

Worth listening to this story from Marketplace: Why are there so many mattress stores? https://www.marketplace.org/2016/05/02/world/why-are-there-so-many-mattress-stores https://www.marketplace.org/2016/05/02/world/why-are-there-s... Basically, mattresses in the US are sold at a very high markup (couple hundred times the cost) so it's an easy way to make money.

ekianjo 9y ago
> Basically, mattresses in the US are sold at a very high markup (couple hundred times the cost) so it's an easy way to make money. then, is there any reason why no-one disrupts the market with cheaper mattresses?
- austenallred 9y ago
  That's what's happening
  - hueving 9y ago
    Where? I want a cheap good mattress and Casper just seems to be expensive.
    - koolba 9y ago
      There are plenty of cheap yet decent foam mattresses on Amazon. Check out the "Lucid" ones. They have a variety of firmness to choose from ... I don't use it as a daily sleeper but slept on one recently and it was quite nice. Plus it's one fifth of the price of Casper or traditional inner spring ones. If you really want to score a deal on one, find the one you want and track it via CamelCamelCamel. The prices change daily and if you're patient, you can get it for 30-35% less than the top line price.
    - brianwawok 9y ago
      Casper is 20% of the price of the mattress store. Is your price target like $50 for a queen?

joshuamcginnis 9y ago

I got a sour taste in my mouth for Casper when I learned of their Federal lawsuits against affiliate bloggers who reviewed their product. I personally felt like Sleepopolis's review of Casper was as fair and observational as one could get with such a thing. Lawsuit Details: https://sleepopolis.com/blog/casper-sues-sleepopolis-with-federal-lawsuit/ https://sleepopolis.com/blog/casper-sues-sleepopolis-with-fe... Casper Mattress Review: https://sleepopolis.com/mattress-reviews/casper-mattress-review/ https://sleepopolis.com/mattress-reviews/casper-mattress-rev...

xor1 9y ago
I had no idea about this lawsuit, that is horrible. Fuck Casper.
Mindless2112 9y ago
That's irritating. I bought a Hyphen mattress based primarily on a comparison of the mattress reviews on Sleepopolis. Kudos to him for fighting the lawsuit.
Hydraulix989 9y ago
That is absolutely insane, this "unlawful" review is as informative and objective as it gets: https://sleepopolis.com/mattress-reviews/tuft-and-needle-vs-casper-mattress-reviews/ https://sleepopolis.com/mattress-reviews/tuft-and-needle-vs-... You shouldn't be able to sue someone for writing a review, this reeks of violating one's First Amendment rights.
- jackvalentine 9y ago
  Reading the complaint (https://sleepopolis.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/caspers-amended-complaint.pdf https://sleepopolis.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/caspers-a...) it looks like Casper is suing them for not disclosing their referral links are referral links whilst alleging that they steer people away from products they don't get good referrals on. I have no idea about the basis or any of the details but it's not just "wrote review, got sued".

halestock 9y ago

For those looking for a new mattress, I'd highly recommend Thr Mattress Underground[0]. It's an unbelievably comprehensive resource for mattress reviews and discussion, and goes into great detail about the mattress industry in general (and the "disruptors" including Casper, among others). [0] https://www.themattressunderground.com https://www.themattressunderground.com

smacktoward 9y ago
Another great resource is Sleep Like The Dead: http://www.sleeplikethedead.com/ http://www.sleeplikethedead.com/
jaequery 9y ago
i am on my fourth mattress, i took advantage of the 3 - 6 month trial periods with these new online delivery mattress companies. :) if any more of these keeps popping up, i could probably have a free mattress for whole 2 years! i'm sorry but i'm just very picky i guess. :/ i've tried so far: casper, leesa, lull, and ghostbed. honestly, lull is the best one so far for me. it has the most tempurpedic style cushy feeling where your body seem to melt. i was most disappointed with ghostbed with casper not too behind. leesa was also good too imo. next i want to try is purple. gotta love this new trend, hope there are more of these in other categories.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- sushid 9y ago
  This, IMO, is extreme. I know it's nothing illegal and the cost of doing business, but you've tried four mattresses already. You're costing all of these companies real money with seemingly no real motivation to purchase the mattress as you already have yet another mattress on your list. You might benefit from reading up on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem and I hope these mattresses stores create some sort of a shared blacklist of customers to prevent freeloaders like you. This is how the average consumer loses generous return policies from places like REI and Costco.

ronack 9y ago

I shared a cowork space with some of the founders when they were struggling with a previous soon-to-fail startup. It's inspiring to see how things worked out the second time around.

kayhi 9y ago
What were they working on?

interfixus 9y ago

Yet another little corner of life where I'm left wondering out in the dark. Absolutely not denigrating anyone's preferences - it's just that I simply don't get it: Give me a slab of foam rubber - and maybe give me a new one after five or ten years - and I couldn't be happier. Fancy mattresses range - in my limited view - from quite on a level with foam down to way too squishy.

xor1 9y ago
Where do I get a slab of foam rubber? I'm definitely not interested in spending money on a mattress, and I need to upgrade my size soon...
- interfixus 9y ago
  Some sort of furniture outlet. Even IKEA, I think. They still call them mattresses, only, they're 20 bucks, not hundreds of them. Mind you, you'll be in for some pretty seroius HN downvoting. Not the done thing :)
  - xor1 9y ago
    Any chance you can link me to an example? are you talking about a topper? e.g. https://www.overstock.com/Bedding-Bath/Splendorest-3-inch-Slab-Memory-Foam-Topper/7338448/product.html https://www.overstock.com/Bedding-Bath/Splendorest-3-inch-Sl...
    - interfixus 9y ago
      Sorry, no, not really. My local list of retail outlets probably won't help you all that much, unless you happen to be stuck in my Danish vicinity :)
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> I simply don't get it...give me a slab of foam rubber I drink my coffee black and my espresso unadorned. I'm not "wondering out in the dark" why some prefer a cappuccino or venti frappé whatever-the-crap. People have different preferences.

diogenescynic 9y ago

I tried a bed in a box from another well rated brand and didn't like it. Felt fine for a few days but gave me back problems after a week. I think there's a reason hotels aren't using these foam mattresses--most people don't like them. I see this as a fad to be honest, but I could also be wrong.

brianwawok 9y ago
I have had my foam mattress for going on 10 years. Its great. Very important not to go too soft. You need more dense foam after the top few softer inches. Im not sure bed in a box can ever fit this dense of foam. My foam mattress is 300 pounds and would take a really big box.

anilshanbhag 9y ago

Is it me or does anyone else fine $550 twin size mattress insanely expensive ? On amazon[0] you can find so many options under $100. I had one of these and used it for two years - it was still good in the end. [0] https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=twin+mattress&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Atwin+mattress https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3...

refurb 9y ago
Yes! I'd love to find out what the cost of manufacturing is. I'm sure the margins on $500+ mattresses is pretty high. That said, a family member did give me a mattress a while back and wow, is it ever nice. They had spent close to $3000 on it. It was king size (which allow is great when you have a partner), but it was also foam over coil springs. Super comfortable. Before I would have said there was no difference in mattress quality when you get much over $500, but I take that back. Now whether the added quality is worth it, I'm not sure. No matter how comfortable this mattress is, there is no way I would spend $3000 on it.
- ghaff 9y ago
  I just use a high-end futon mattress with a featherbed on top and have been more than happy with it for a couple decades. That said, I sometimes stay at hotels that make a particularly big deal about their mattress and bedding and they can be very comfortable.
lewisl9029 9y ago
I moved into a new apartment not too long ago, and I was initially thinking of getting a Casper for my new bed, but ended up going with one of the higher-end foam mattresses on Amazon instead for ~$200: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0125QZQNW https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0125QZQNW I've never tried a Casper, but this $200 mattress is by far the most comfortable mattress I've ever slept on. It's honestly very difficult for me to imagine how a Casper could justify its $400+ premium for someone who's even slightly price conscious. Maybe someone who has tried both a Casper and a $200~ foam mattress on Amazon can shed some light on the differences.

shanev 9y ago

I did a ton of research on mattresses when getting a new bed two years ago. Casper was my first choice since I heard so much about it from my startup friends. I wanted one that was biodegradable with no off-gassing. I took a deep dive into Casper's safety claims and it opened up a whole can of worms. I've never seen an industry with so much greenwashing. The organizations that certify the mattresses as being safe are comprised of the suppliers themselves. They are basically chemical companies pushing cheap non-biodegradable foam with crazy markups under exotic brand names. Casper just sells this cheap foam with questionable safety standards like everyone else. The only standard I found not to be shady was GOTS [1]. I ended up making my own mattress from slabs of organic latex. It was cheaper and more comfortable than the Casper anyway. Now when I have guests over I can easily remove a layer and have another temporary mattress. They ship compressed and rolled up in boxes which were way smaller than the Casper one. (Btw, the box advertised in Casper ads and in their showroom is nowhere near the size of the actual delivered box. It's massive). If you don't want to make your own, here's a good one: https://sleeponlatex.com/products/natural-latex-mattress https://sleeponlatex.com/products/natural-latex-mattress. [1] http://www.global-standard.org http://www.global-standard.org

realdlee 9y ago
any recommendations on making your own foam mattress?
- shanev 9y ago
  Check out the DIY threads here: https://www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-forum/index.html https://www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-forum/index..... You usually have some kind of firm base, a middle layer, and a soft top layer. I went with a firm latex layer (44 ILD), a medium latex layer (30 ILD) [1], and a wool topper [2]. Very comfortable with good support, and a decent amount of bounce. [1] https://sleeponlatex.com/products/natural-latex-mattress-topper https://sleeponlatex.com/products/natural-latex-mattress-top... [2] https://www.holylamborganics.com https://www.holylamborganics.com
  - Already__Taken 9y ago

microcolonel 9y ago

I'm not convinced that a mattress is even a useful product. I have been mattress free for about a third of my life and it's basically fine. The best argument for sleeping on a bed that I've heard is "chicks don't dig it", which has not been my experience, certainly not once you get through the door. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

xor1 9y ago
What are you sleeping on instead?
- Neliquat 9y ago
  I would imagine a hammock or the floor. I have friends that prefer both.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  Anything with about a centimetre of firm foam is fine. Yoga mats, work mats, etc.

orliesaurus 9y ago

I wonder how their 100 nights warranty works. Do they just come and pick the mattress back from your house if you don't like it and do you get a full refund? Anyone who bought it can explain? Are there hidden fees?

schmookeeg 9y ago
We tried em in Los Angeles. Called on day 89, said we didn't like it -- they asked us if we had a preferred charity to donate the used mattress to, we said nope. They sent it to some homeless shelter apparently. Refund came right back to the CC as promised. No hassles at all. Not even much of a retention script, really. This was early 2016. We sent it back because it was already starting to "set" and create a weird ridge between my wife and I, who are side-sleepers. It's not for us, but the company treated us just fine and as-promised. $0.02
- frenchpress 9y ago
  So Casper sent someone to pick the mattress up from your home? Were you required to prep or pack it up before they would take it away?
  - doughj3 9y ago
    When we returned ours, Casper coordinated pickup via the nearest Salvation Army who sent a truck to our place. We did not need to pack it up at all.

majewsky 9y ago

I'm going to be in the market for a new mattress soon, so might as well "Ask HN": Can anyone recommend a mattress with a reasonable price that I can buy in Europe (Germany, specifically)?

joshvm 9y ago
All these trendy mattress companies have 100 day free trials. My advice is to try them all and pick the one that you like the best. I have a Leesa which is good (I tried Casper previously), it's also available in Germany. https://www.leesa.de/ https://www.leesa.de/ Reasonable price though? Perhaps not... someone else posted a link to a DIY site though, which is probably worth trying. All these companies are basically selling you three or four layers of off the shelf foam.

bgdkbtv 9y ago

How the fuck!?

wonder_bread 9y ago

How much R&D does Casper do in developing their mattresses? Seems like they're more of a marketing experiment than a "bedtime is back" sleep revolution.

mpermar 9y ago

My inlaw family does run a mattress distribution company. They have represented many brands over the last 30 years. There is one thing that never changes, you get what you pay for. So before buying into the whole "cut the intermediaries", "mattresses have big markups", lies - yes, lies, I'd advice to do a lot of research and see what you buy. I've run the idea of moving the family business to a similar online model to what casper, eve and others are doing, with similar prices, margins, etc. multiple times. and we always drop this idea off because it's impossible to sell in the prices these companies do and sleep well with yourself, i.e. these guys have the same margins but they sell pretty basic mattresses with a 5 years ( if you are lucky ) lifetime under regular use.

draw_down 9y ago

The only way to buy a bed that makes sense to me is to go to the store and lay on them all, then buy the one that feels best. I don't understand apps and websites for this. You will sleep on it every night, for years!

dagw 9y ago
I did that as well when buying my last bed, but I do genuinely wonder how rational it is. Is there really any correlation between how comfortable a bed is to lie on for 30 seconds and how comfortable a bed is to sleep on after a couple of month.
- draw_down 9y ago
  Certainly more correlation than whatever you can gather from casper.com.

dmode 9y ago

A company that sells expensive mattresses over the internet raises that much money ? And is doing an IPO ? This is literally internet gone mad. Mattresses are commodity products trying very hard to differentiate themselves.