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Just Do It: Move to Silicon Valley
- byoung2 16y agoMoving to Silicon Valley definitely gets you closer to a pool of tech startup minded people and the venture capitalists that feed them in the same way that moving to Los Angeles helps you start your acting career. But I'm sure that there are quite a few wannabes up north who never moved beyond the dreaming phase, just like there are quite a few waiters here in Los Angeles waiting for their big break. A tech startup anywhere needs smart founders and lots of determination. You need more than just a zip code to make it in the startup world. I think the location only helps if the other pieces are already in place before you make the move.
- timr 16y agoThat's a great analogy. If I had a nickel for every goof with a "hot startup idea" in the valley, I'd be richer than most of the people who have hot startups. I've never lived in LA, but living in San Francisco feels like the technology version of every hard-luck-actor tale I've read of Hollywood. It's so easy to run across the modern equivalent of a waiter with a script (a hacker with a business plan), that it's actually disconcerting to go to valley conferences or social events. You're usually bombarded by so many people who want something -- funding, partners, customers, external validation -- that you tend to shut them all out.
- nostrademons 16y agoYeah, I've seen that phenomena too - there are an awful lot of people that think moving to Silicon Valley will magically make their startup successful, instead of it just being one of the first steps in a long, long journey. The nice thing about SV is that there are folks here that actually work on tough technical problems and have the skill to match - Googlers, Yahooglers, Microsofties, researchers at Stanford and Berkeley, etc. Not to mention all the repeat entrepreneurs who have money to invest and are looking for their second big idea. It can sometimes be hard to convince these people to found a startup (well, hard to convince the tech company employees...the repeat entrepreneurs will jump on anything with a reasonable chance of success), but there's talent here.
- byoung2 16y agoI've lived in LA all my life, and I've seen more than my fair share of aspiring actors. I'm sure that their chances of making it big are better here than they are in Kansas, but not by much if all you have going for you is the fact that you live in LA. I'm sure the same rules apply for country singers in Nashville, or dancers in New York. It might actually benefit startup founders to stay out of an environment like the one you described!
- alttab 16y agoI'm sure that their chances of making it big are better here than they are in Kansas, but not by much if all you have going for you is the fact that you live in LA. Adding to that: if the only difference between your success and failure is your location - your probability of success to begin with is probably slim. Success is a mindset, not a zip code.
- gruseom 16y agoBut what if you're a very talented actor? I'd be surprised if, in that case, LA and NY don't provide a significant incremental advantage.
- jakek 16y agoYou're absolutely right, being in silicon valley does not, by itself, equal success. There are other factors that are far more important and there is no silver bullet. That's why there are tons of examples of great startups all over the world, including ones based right in my hometown. So, if you personally have no desire to move here and are happy with your startup right where it is, then you should stay where you are. All that being said, if deep down you've got the feeling that the valley might be the place for you, you see that you're not moving forward on your startup as fast as you'd like, or you haven't yet found the right people to work with, then it's a move I highly recommend.
- moolave 16y agoI guess it just depends on which circle or places you usually hang around with. Either you're in LA, NY, Montreal, or elsewhere; you can still run a sustainable startup with the right timing and resources. Still, I'd rather stay in Silicon Valley for a number of reasons: 1) High concentration & influx of venture capitalists, startup founders, incubators and advisors 2) Sun 3) Sun Don't get me wrong, places like New York are going strong true. Foursquare, Vimeo... and where do I get my morning coffee? Fred Wilson's AVC.com blog. I moved back to SV from DC because I'm used to the peninsula and I really know this is where I want to be if I run a startup. But it is actually up to you if you want to run it in New York, Montreal, London, or Berlin. Timing can be everything sometimes. Women? Yeah, New York has plenty. But after reading Neil Strauss's "The Game", I think you can create an opportunity of meeting the right girl for you out of every setting. (Disclaimer: I don't go to night clubs often these days. I go to Club Startup)
- psyklic 16y agoIt is important to be around people who want badly to succeed, not people who have dreams but no work ethic. There are more of the latter than the former, in both startups AND acting. Also keep in mind that actors move to LA because there is WORK in LA, not because there are other actors! To get acting gigs, zip code DOES matter :)
- benologist 16y agoHow did you overcome the visa barrier? "Just do it" is sound enough advice if you're American but you seem to be Canadian (and I'm Australian), you might as well be saying Just do it: Flap your arms and fly.
- starkfist 16y agoIn my experience it's trivial to get a TN1 visa if you are Canadian. It is tied to a specific employer, but an employer could just be an LLC set up by your friends. There is a similar visa for Australians now, the E-3.
- spencerfry 16y ago"You can do a startup from anywhere. And it's true. Except that it's mainly bullshit." Doing perfectly well in New York City. Thank you very much. Can we stop this silly banter?
- robryan 16y agoThe article mentions that there are plenty of good examples from other locations, just they believe that it gives them a great chance of success.
- spencerfry 16y agoThen why make the point at all?
- sgman 16y agoThe article makes the point that being in the valley improves your odds, not that it's impossible to start a successful company outside the valley.
- spencerfry 16y agoWho says? Where's the scientific study? For example, we can't launch Foursquare both in Silicon Valley and in New York City and see which has the better outcome.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- frossie 16y agowe can't launch Foursquare both in Silicon Valley and in New York City and see which has the better outcome. Well, I think the OP's point is that you aren't as likely to get as far as launch in, say, Houston than you are in SV. The problem is that it's hard to get a quantifiable handle on the question, not only because it is hard to count startups that never got off the ground, but also because it doesn't have to be true; people just have to believe it to be true. In other words, if everybody who wants to launch a startup moves to SV because they think they have to, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, irrespective of whether it was originally true.
- bentlegen 16y agoI don't think anyone would disagree that it's more difficult to find startup-oriented folks in Toronto, but you'll get better results if you look in the right places. http://democamp.com http://democamp.com, http://unspace.ca/innovation/pubnite http://unspace.ca/innovation/pubnite, to name a few.
- paulgb 16y agoThis article, and many like it, seem to use "startup" and "consumer-facing web startup" interchangeably. If you're doing the latter, you will at least be in better company in the Bay Area. There are certainly companies that benefit from having a presence there, but there's something to be said about being outside a consumer-web echo chamber as well. In Founders at Work, the one founder who I remember stressing the importance of location the most was Mike Lazaridis, who started his company in a smallish town an hour or two from Toronto. They have a higher market cap than all but a few of the companies Jessica interviewed.
- imack 16y agoThe smallish town was/is Waterloo. The RIM HQ is close enough to the University of Waterloo campus that the two entities have sold buildings to one another. In a speech he gave once I heard him draw the analogy about putting the refinery right next to the well. He also had this interesting bit about how it was more important that the "RIM" logo on the building be more visible from the campus than the street. Most places have to convince talent to stay whereas the Valley has it come to them, I can see it being an easier battle.
- nostrademons 16y agoGoogle wasn't interviewed in Founders at Work, but they stress the importance of location starting with Noogler orientation, with periodic reminders every time you try working on a distributed team.
- paulgb 16y agoThey stress the importance of location of team members relative to each other, or the importance of being in the valley? From my understanding, Google has a number of engineering sites outside of the Valley, even in the USA.
- steveklabnik 16y agoThey do, but I think they still keep the individual teams close to one another. I know that the team here in Pittsburgh works on only certain products, at least.
- ojbyrne 16y agoIn my opinion, another approach (even a recommended approach) is to incubate elsewhere and move to the valley when you have some traction. There's just too much noise there, too much "flavor of the month." Examples that fit this approach that come to mind are flickr, digg, and stumbleupon. I'm sure there's plenty more.
- pg 16y agoThere's just too much noise there, too much "flavor of the month." I often hear people make this (in my opinion rather facile) criticism of SV, but as far as I can remember I've never heard anyone give any evidence of it. I've seen thousands of data points about this over the last 5 years, and I have seen no evidence of it. The startup ideas submitted by YC applicants from outside the Bay Area are no less likely (in fact probably more likely) to be derivative than the ones from people who live here.
- starkfist 16y agoThere is a sideshow of nightly drunken mixers and panels and meetups and conferences and such. If you attend these you will meet hundreds of loser "CEOs" with idiotic derivative ideas. Most engineers and founders avoid this, but Digg was one of main promoters of this nonsense, which probably colored ojbyrne's experience.
- ojbyrne 16y agoAccidental downvote, sorry. It may be more SF-centric than valley-centric. My experience at digg did prompt me to network somewhat, so indirectly, you're probably correct.
- Harj 16y agoI agree with this. I'm particularly exposed to seeing how founders/CEO's differ within YC and at these mixer/networking events - the generic "location based recommendation something" ideas are talked about at the latter rather than the former.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
- WilliamLP 16y agoIt's not the main point of his post, but would you really want both founders to be heavily influenced by and involved in the Hacker News echo chamber? I suspect some diversity of thinking might be more valuable.
- fjabre 16y agoI struggle with this question myself a lot. I'm in LA currently and instead of conversations about web startups in cafes - I hear managers talking to talent and hot new ideas for movie scripts.. Pretty cool but doesn't help with a web startup. The one major complaint I continue to hear about SV from my male friends is the severe lack of eligible females there. Being from the east coast and now living in LA I might find it hard to live in place where I'm surrounded by predominantly male engineers 24/7 who are only talking about tech. I used to work as an engineer at Cisco and I remember that feeling. It wasn't a good one.
- starkfist 16y agoI left SF/SV because the dating scene was so bad and I felt like my startup enforced "vow of celibacy" had gone on long enough. There are not enough women, and the women who are there do not like you. If you are married or don't care about dating, it's a great place.
- tptacek 16y ago... until you have kids, at which point it stops being so great.
- starkfist 16y agoI have friends with kids there. If you have enough money, it's still great. It only sucks if you're financially struggling or sending your kids through the SF public school lottery. Even if you're not rich, it might not be so bad. I grew up in a state known for it's amazing public school system, and it was still a bunch of bullshit. I would have rather grown up somewhere I could have ridden my bike every day of the year and gotten college credits from one of the best community college systems in the country.
- tptacek 16y agoI had kids in SF. You are either going to spend a spectacular amount of money to rent a town house in an acceptable part of San Francisco (and put up with an insane public school system), or your kids are going to grow up in a California suburb. That's a dilemma I'm happy to avoid.
- ThomPete 16y agoThere are two reasons to move to Silicon Valley. Serendipity and great tech people. If you already have the right business idea and great people there is no reason what so ever to move.
- ojbyrne 16y agoI think good VC companies is a better reason. Serendipity (by definition) can be found anywhere, and great tech people are in many, many places, plus can generally be found online.
- ThomPete 16y agoWell that was at least my experience living there between 98 and 2002. You don't need to have the VC right next to you. If your product/service is good you will get access to them.
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- ulrich 16y agoWhat about labour costs? I am currently working for a startup that has its development office in eastern germany, with a management office near Frankfurt. Although nobody explicitly said that, but the reason is simply that wages are much lower over here. On the other hand, afaik in Sillicon Valley salaries are very high. I'm just wondering why nobody has brought that up so far.
- CoachRufus87 16y agoAs well as the high cost of living.
- alnayyir 16y agoTo be fair, most of Germany ain't cheap at all compared to some parts of the US.
- dannyr 16y agoOnly in Silicon Valley where you go in a cafe and there's a good chance you'll see other people working on their own startup, preparing to pitch to an investor or actually pitching to an investor. Also, a lot of people has an active Twitter account that establishes their identity online. People here just dream big. Some are delusional while some are actually on their way to making it big.
- philcrissman 16y ago> But after some follow-up questions, I'd soon find out they don't even read TechCrunch ... And here I thought not reading TechCrunch was a positive attribute.
- rameshnid 16y agoRelated reads- "Israel Nation" on how Israel built something similar to the valley http://www.startupnationbook.com/ http://www.startupnationbook.com/ PGs essay- http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html
- axod 16y agoDepends what sort of startup you want to do. Personally I would need a multimillion dollar incentive to move there.
- JeffL 16y agoThis is an interesting article for me because I'm currently in SV and am contemplating moving away. My employees are all remote contractors, but it's time we got an office and moved together and there's just no way I could have them move here without at least doubling their salary because of the insane cost of living here. I can get office space elsewhere for half the cost and continue to pay my people what I do now if we get an office elsewhere, so that's what we're looking at. Isn't an important factor in success of a start up to be able to run lean?
- zackattack 16y agoIt's a lot easier to do something if you have social support and cultural validation.
- tmsh 16y agoIn the words of a Russian dude: Silicon Valley's greatest asset is communication. People discuss their work not trifles. Russia would benefit from this kind of environment. http://twitter.com/KremlinRussia_E/status/16881191397 http://twitter.com/KremlinRussia_E/status/16881191397
- petercooper 16y agoSo stop rationalizing, stop making excuses and just do it: move to Silicon Valley. I might, if the US would stop making "immigrants are destroying our country" excuses for not having a sane immigration policy.
- nanospider 16y agoYes, if you want to do a web 2.0 startup, then the valley is the place to be. No doubt! Although I then think of Flickr, Plenty of Fish, Club Penguin, etc. and realize that this is not necessarily true. How many VC-backed companies actually do well enough for the founders to get rich? Not that many - you're better off bootstrapping and then flipping the co. for a $ amount that is in the few million. And I think the Valley is the worst place to bootstrap due to the high cost of living. And don't get me started on the high cost of getting health insurance. You're better off in Toronto.
- duck 16y agoBy three months, I was working with a co-founder who had also moved here to do a startup and not only reads Hacker News, but has so many karma points I would know what to do with all of them. It is funny how important he makes the karma factor sound - like that automatically makes him a great co-founder.
- mkramlich 16y agoI upvoted you so you'd have more karma in order to make you a better co-founder in the future. In return, I expect equity.
- mkramlich 16y agoHere is even better advice to give (assuming you're not somewhere really extreme like the North Pole, or a place without Internet access, etc.): Just Do It: Where You Are because it's faster, cheaper and more efficient. Because being in Silicon Valley is not the critical ingredient, by a long shot.
- paulnelligan 16y agoYou think Toronto is difficult for finding engaged people to work with?, try Cork, Ireland!! ... I have to get out there soon, even on a holiday visa ...
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