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One of the things that surprised me in Germany was the extremely high smoking rate. Apparently the adult smoking rate is between 40-45%. My experience was that

One of the things that surprised me in Germany was the extremely high smoking rate. Apparently the adult smoking rate is between 40-45%. My experience was that it is by no means limited to poor people either. It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. To contrast, I was recently in South Africa at a wedding full of people of all ages (all white, though). We noted that out of 100+ guests only 2 were smokers. A recent study shows that the overall rate in both whites and blacks is about 15%, while in coloureds it is 40%. It's interesting because it shows more of a race divide rather than class divide.

Cyph0n 9y ago
Regarding your last point, how do you know that it's not also a class divide? I wouldn't be surprised if South African blacks were more impoverished overall.
- torrent-of-ions 9y ago
  Blacks and coloureds tend to be more poor. But maybe many of the blacks are too poor to smoke, while the coloureds are not so poor, but still as poor as a poor American.
drivebyops 9y ago
It's about what government can do to promote against smoking. Anti smoking ads, anti smoking packaging laws, school exercises, etc about smoking over the years in Australia have led to a rapid decrease in smokers over there.
dpark 9y ago
> It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. This surprised me, too, the first time I went. Seeing 12 year olds smoking in public spaces was really, really bizarre. The only logical conclusion is that the German government and/or populace simply doesn't care about reducing cigarette usage. > A recent study shows that the overall rate in both whites and blacks is about 15%, while in coloureds it is 40%. What are "coloureds" in this context? Typically blacks would be categorized as "colored".
- torrent-of-ions 9y ago
  Coloured, not colored: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds
  - dpark 9y ago
    I wasn't aware of this ethnic grouping. Thanks.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- cwal37 9y ago
  South Africa has some very specific definitions[1] for this type of thing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds
  - dpark 9y ago
    Thanks. :)
- drpgq 9y ago
  They still have cigarette vending machines. In Canada I don't think I've seen one since the early eighties.
throwanem 9y ago
> A recent study shows that the overall rate in both whites and blacks is about 15%, while in coloureds it is 40%. Worth knowing that "colored" is a loaded term in American vernacular, and may provoke strongly negative responses depending on context - I know that's not how you're using it, but many would not, and might take it amiss therefore. "Black" is a denotative equivalent lacking the same connotations, and what I'd recommend using instead in discourse with predominantly American interlocutors. To your point, I gather there's a class divide along racial lines in South Africa, just as (albeit more sharply defined than) in the US, and would wonder whether that's more where the correlation lies. I think it must be here - that's my observation, at least, anecdotal though it be.
- torrent-of-ions 9y ago
  You misread my post. Black and coloured is not the same thing in South Africa. Coloured has a significantly higher rate than other ethnic groups (black and white). The clash with American terminology is unfortunate, but in this case there is no alternative.
  - wavefunction 9y ago
    Mixed-race might work?
  - MBCook 9y ago
    They didn't misread it, they were trying to give you a heads-up. As an American I didn't know "colored" was used in South Africa and other than context I wouldn't have know that it was distinct from black. I'd be curious to know the difference. In the US "colored" is an old and derogatory term for black. So your sentence reads like "X and Y are this, but Y is that" where one of the Ys is a word that isn't used. I don't think they were trying to be mean or attack you, just give you a heads up on how many/most of HN may (miss)interpret your comment.
    - throwanem 9y ago
      That's exactly right. Thanks for clarifying.
Ded7xSEoPKYNsDd 9y ago
I don't think your numbers for Germany are right. According to [1], the rate is 25% for people aged 15+. It's twice as high for people of low social status compared than people of high social status [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_in_Germany [2] http://edoc.rki.de/oa/articles/reEi8wDOV3B1g/PDF/25UH9cUwefucQ.pdf http://edoc.rki.de/oa/articles/reEi8wDOV3B1g/PDF/25UH9cUwefu... page 4

Cyph0n 9y ago

Regarding your last point, how do you know that it's not also a class divide? I wouldn't be surprised if South African blacks were more impoverished overall.

torrent-of-ions 9y ago
Blacks and coloureds tend to be more poor. But maybe many of the blacks are too poor to smoke, while the coloureds are not so poor, but still as poor as a poor American.

drivebyops 9y ago

It's about what government can do to promote against smoking. Anti smoking ads, anti smoking packaging laws, school exercises, etc about smoking over the years in Australia have led to a rapid decrease in smokers over there.

dpark 9y ago

> It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. This surprised me, too, the first time I went. Seeing 12 year olds smoking in public spaces was really, really bizarre. The only logical conclusion is that the German government and/or populace simply doesn't care about reducing cigarette usage. > A recent study shows that the overall rate in both whites and blacks is about 15%, while in coloureds it is 40%. What are "coloureds" in this context? Typically blacks would be categorized as "colored".

torrent-of-ions 9y ago
Coloured, not colored: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds
- dpark 9y ago
  I wasn't aware of this ethnic grouping. Thanks.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
cwal37 9y ago
South Africa has some very specific definitions[1] for this type of thing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds
- dpark 9y ago
  Thanks. :)
drpgq 9y ago
They still have cigarette vending machines. In Canada I don't think I've seen one since the early eighties.

throwanem 9y ago

> A recent study shows that the overall rate in both whites and blacks is about 15%, while in coloureds it is 40%. Worth knowing that "colored" is a loaded term in American vernacular, and may provoke strongly negative responses depending on context - I know that's not how you're using it, but many would not, and might take it amiss therefore. "Black" is a denotative equivalent lacking the same connotations, and what I'd recommend using instead in discourse with predominantly American interlocutors. To your point, I gather there's a class divide along racial lines in South Africa, just as (albeit more sharply defined than) in the US, and would wonder whether that's more where the correlation lies. I think it must be here - that's my observation, at least, anecdotal though it be.

torrent-of-ions 9y ago
You misread my post. Black and coloured is not the same thing in South Africa. Coloured has a significantly higher rate than other ethnic groups (black and white). The clash with American terminology is unfortunate, but in this case there is no alternative.
- wavefunction 9y ago
  Mixed-race might work?
- MBCook 9y ago
  They didn't misread it, they were trying to give you a heads-up. As an American I didn't know "colored" was used in South Africa and other than context I wouldn't have know that it was distinct from black. I'd be curious to know the difference. In the US "colored" is an old and derogatory term for black. So your sentence reads like "X and Y are this, but Y is that" where one of the Ys is a word that isn't used. I don't think they were trying to be mean or attack you, just give you a heads up on how many/most of HN may (miss)interpret your comment.
  - throwanem 9y ago
    That's exactly right. Thanks for clarifying.

Ded7xSEoPKYNsDd 9y ago

I don't think your numbers for Germany are right. According to [1], the rate is 25% for people aged 15+. It's twice as high for people of low social status compared than people of high social status [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_in_Germany [2] http://edoc.rki.de/oa/articles/reEi8wDOV3B1g/PDF/25UH9cUwefucQ.pdf http://edoc.rki.de/oa/articles/reEi8wDOV3B1g/PDF/25UH9cUwefu... page 4