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I am familiar with the FIFA's reasoning, and I just don't think it holds up. The best example is the NBA: advanced technical rules at NBA games aren't stopping

by Maro 16y ago

I am familiar with the FIFA's reasoning, and I just don't think it holds up. The best example is the NBA: advanced technical rules at NBA games aren't stopping anyone from playing basketball on the courts or at the High School level. Also, the rules are different anyways. At the FIFA level, games are played on large fields for 2x45 minutes, there are 4 refs, etc. AFAIR HS level games were 2x30 minutes and we were lucky to have 1 ref, and so on. So the rules are already different at different levels, and people can deal with it. Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? Match outcomes are routinely altered by erroneous ref. decisions, decisions which the whole world except the ref. knows are erroneous because we see the 1000FPS close up 30 seconds later. It's become so nonsensical that at the recent Brazil game, the brazilian players after a bad ref. decision to send off Kaka with a red card were begging the ref. to look up on the stadion screen to see the replay which clearly showed nothing happened, but he couldn't be bothered. I think everybody would be able to accept that at High School level games there's no video replay, and the ref. makes mistakes, while rejoicing that World Cup level games are not influenced by bad decisions avoidable just by having a 5th ref. look at the replays. This would also move the game towards actual fair play in the sense that players wouldn't be constantly diving, lying about who touched the ball last, lying about what happened, lying to convince the ref.

zazi 16y ago
> The best example is the NBA: advanced technical rules at NBA games aren't stopping anyone from playing basketball on the courts or at the High School level. alternatively, basketball has so many rules that it prevents first timers from truly picking up the game at all... ie. a non-intuitive game > Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? Has the lack of video replays killed soccer? Why stop at video replays at all? why not have a group of referees sitting in the comfort of an airconditioned room with muliple camera angles available to them making decisions about the game which are displayed on the screen? would this kill the game? it is debatable. But would this significantly change the game? yes.... would I want to play in such a game? maybe not..
- Maro 16y ago
  Players constantly lying/cheating certainly has a negative effect on how the game is perceived. I know it has an effect on me. Also, it has a noticably negative effect at the kids playing at the amateur level. At one of the World Cup games the commentator noted that he teaches his young kid that diving/cheating is part of soccer and it's important to be good at it. Sports are supposed to be a part of life where cheating and lying is discouraged and outlawed.
  - zazi 16y ago
    > At one of the World Cup games the commentator noted that he teaches his young kid that diving/cheating is part of soccer and it's important to be good at it. You make a good point.. there are negative effects of the current state. I'm not too sure that having video replays would address it effectively though. In reality, the number of video replays would probably have to be artificially limited (ie. 3 per team etc). So this might just fuel a diving culture where teams dive so much to get the other team to use up their video replays. i'm not saying that it might turn out this way, but i guess it can still go both ways. Regardless, the commentator ought to be shot =)
ErrantX 16y ago
Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? Yes. Alot. Injuries already interrupt the flow of the game - and one thing Football is good at is flowing (one reason I personally enjoy it). A good game is non-stop action (which is my only criticism of US sports - I usually get bored waiting for baseball for example :)) Match outcomes are routinely altered by erroneous ref. decisions, decisions which the whole world except the ref. knows are erroneous because we see the 1000FPS close up 30 seconds later. It's become so nonsensical that at the recent Brazil game, the brazilian players after a bad ref. decision to send off Kaka with a red card were begging the ref. to look up on the stadion screen to see the replay which clearly showed nothing happened, but he couldn't be bothered. This is the point of the game :) bad decisions aren't all that prevalent - you just notice them because people will yell (rightly) about them. Human error is what makes the sport so much fun. But more importantly stopping for 30s while replays are reviewed just delays the game - a game which is designed to flow. That would kill it for me!
- _delirium 16y ago
  One possibility would be to use after-the-game replays only to punish particularly egregious behavior, like blatant dives, with suspensions. Wouldn't interrupt the flow of the game, but would deter wrongdoing.
  - ErrantX 16y ago
    Yes, that's something I think they should do. The problem is ensuring the game is recorded fairly - they could use the existing cameras certainly but I suspect it's a non-trivial discussion to ensure that the camera coverage is fair for review purposes.
  - zalew 16y ago
    it's already being done, but not to punish dives. it's used to analyze more serious situations such as brutal fouls (a player can get additional punishment by football associations after the game, even to a complete season dismiss) or alleged corruption. dives are stupid and I hate them, but I think they are far overrated in the US (assumption from what I see in internet discussions)
zalew 16y ago
> lying about who touched the ball last, lying about what happened, lying to convince the ref. lying doesn't matter, it's just expressing emotions. you almost never see a referee backing up from a decision, more often discussions result a yellow card. > Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? it wouldn't if they were limited, just as switching players is. if one team had one single chance of calling for a replay, it wouldn't kill the dynamic, but would solve the problem of nonaccredited goals or the Kaka situation with Ivory Coast.
- Maro 16y ago
  It's not just an expression of emotions. Modern players are trained to cheat and lie.
- jimbokun 16y ago
  "if one team had one single chance of calling for a replay, it wouldn't kill the dynamic, but would solve the problem of nonaccredited goals or the Kaka situation with Ivory Coast." This is roughly the system employed by the NFL, and it works fairly well. Coaches can challenge a number of calls per game (2, I think?) and are penalized with losing a timeout if their challenge turns out to be invalid. I don't know if there is an equivalent penalty that could be leveled at a soccer team for an invalid challenge.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  >> lying about who touched the ball last, lying about what happened, lying to convince the ref. >lying doesn't matter, it's just expressing emotions. you almost never see a referee backing up from a decision, more often discussions result a yellow card. Lying matters to some people - good sportsmen for example. When I played (only amateur: Uni/Sunday league) I'd tell the ref if he'd made a wrong decision in my favour. IMO lying is not a proper part of [association] football; that's why I gave up on footie some time ago.
bmj 16y ago
I think perhaps limited replay for questionable goals might be useful (the French team would be watching from home if this were the case), and it wouldn't interrupt the flow of the game much. I don't think we'd have a situation like we do with American football where the ref spends five minutes looking at monitor--most of the blown calls are really easy to spot. Bookings really shouldn't be reviewed, at least during the match. Perhaps FIFA could institute a review process post-match, however, to reinstate players that would be lost due a red card or multiple yellows.

by Maro 16y ago

zazi 16y ago

> The best example is the NBA: advanced technical rules at NBA games aren't stopping anyone from playing basketball on the courts or at the High School level. alternatively, basketball has so many rules that it prevents first timers from truly picking up the game at all... ie. a non-intuitive game > Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? Has the lack of video replays killed soccer? Why stop at video replays at all? why not have a group of referees sitting in the comfort of an airconditioned room with muliple camera angles available to them making decisions about the game which are displayed on the screen? would this kill the game? it is debatable. But would this significantly change the game? yes.... would I want to play in such a game? maybe not..

Maro 16y ago
Players constantly lying/cheating certainly has a negative effect on how the game is perceived. I know it has an effect on me. Also, it has a noticably negative effect at the kids playing at the amateur level. At one of the World Cup games the commentator noted that he teaches his young kid that diving/cheating is part of soccer and it's important to be good at it. Sports are supposed to be a part of life where cheating and lying is discouraged and outlawed.
- zazi 16y ago
  > At one of the World Cup games the commentator noted that he teaches his young kid that diving/cheating is part of soccer and it's important to be good at it. You make a good point.. there are negative effects of the current state. I'm not too sure that having video replays would address it effectively though. In reality, the number of video replays would probably have to be artificially limited (ie. 3 per team etc). So this might just fuel a diving culture where teams dive so much to get the other team to use up their video replays. i'm not saying that it might turn out this way, but i guess it can still go both ways. Regardless, the commentator ought to be shot =)

ErrantX 16y ago

Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? Yes. Alot. Injuries already interrupt the flow of the game - and one thing Football is good at is flowing (one reason I personally enjoy it). A good game is non-stop action (which is my only criticism of US sports - I usually get bored waiting for baseball for example :)) Match outcomes are routinely altered by erroneous ref. decisions, decisions which the whole world except the ref. knows are erroneous because we see the 1000FPS close up 30 seconds later. It's become so nonsensical that at the recent Brazil game, the brazilian players after a bad ref. decision to send off Kaka with a red card were begging the ref. to look up on the stadion screen to see the replay which clearly showed nothing happened, but he couldn't be bothered. This is the point of the game :) bad decisions aren't all that prevalent - you just notice them because people will yell (rightly) about them. Human error is what makes the sport so much fun. But more importantly stopping for 30s while replays are reviewed just delays the game - a game which is designed to flow. That would kill it for me!

_delirium 16y ago
One possibility would be to use after-the-game replays only to punish particularly egregious behavior, like blatant dives, with suspensions. Wouldn't interrupt the flow of the game, but would deter wrongdoing.
- ErrantX 16y ago
  Yes, that's something I think they should do. The problem is ensuring the game is recorded fairly - they could use the existing cameras certainly but I suspect it's a non-trivial discussion to ensure that the camera coverage is fair for review purposes.
- zalew 16y ago
  it's already being done, but not to punish dives. it's used to analyze more serious situations such as brutal fouls (a player can get additional punishment by football associations after the game, even to a complete season dismiss) or alleged corruption. dives are stupid and I hate them, but I think they are far overrated in the US (assumption from what I see in internet discussions)

zalew 16y ago

> lying about who touched the ball last, lying about what happened, lying to convince the ref. lying doesn't matter, it's just expressing emotions. you almost never see a referee backing up from a decision, more often discussions result a yellow card. > Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? it wouldn't if they were limited, just as switching players is. if one team had one single chance of calling for a replay, it wouldn't kill the dynamic, but would solve the problem of nonaccredited goals or the Kaka situation with Ivory Coast.

Maro 16y ago
It's not just an expression of emotions. Modern players are trained to cheat and lie.
jimbokun 16y ago
"if one team had one single chance of calling for a replay, it wouldn't kill the dynamic, but would solve the problem of nonaccredited goals or the Kaka situation with Ivory Coast." This is roughly the system employed by the NFL, and it works fairly well. Coaches can challenge a number of calls per game (2, I think?) and are penalized with losing a timeout if their challenge turns out to be invalid. I don't know if there is an equivalent penalty that could be leveled at a soccer team for an invalid challenge.
pbhjpbhj 16y ago
>> lying about who touched the ball last, lying about what happened, lying to convince the ref. >lying doesn't matter, it's just expressing emotions. you almost never see a referee backing up from a decision, more often discussions result a yellow card. Lying matters to some people - good sportsmen for example. When I played (only amateur: Uni/Sunday league) I'd tell the ref if he'd made a wrong decision in my favour. IMO lying is not a proper part of [association] football; that's why I gave up on footie some time ago.

bmj 16y ago

I think perhaps limited replay for questionable goals might be useful (the French team would be watching from home if this were the case), and it wouldn't interrupt the flow of the game much. I don't think we'd have a situation like we do with American football where the ref spends five minutes looking at monitor--most of the blown calls are really easy to spot. Bookings really shouldn't be reviewed, at least during the match. Perhaps FIFA could institute a review process post-match, however, to reinstate players that would be lost due a red card or multiple yellows.