5 ms·

Musician’s hand injured after UA supervisor wrestles away antique violin

44 points by CarolineW 9y ago

btschaegg 9y ago
Bizarre. I can't imagine what makes a supervisor think that it is okay to forcefully take a customer's luggage from them. Why not just go "Well, you can't fly with us then."?
- nucleardog 9y ago
  Yeah like, how does it devolve to this? "These are the conditions for you to board the plane. If you don't comply, you cannot board the plane. If you attempt to force your way onto the plane, the police will remove and arrest you." At no point is "forcefully taking the passenger's luggage" a reasonable thing to be doing, nor necessary.
  - cbanek 9y ago
    So I haven't seen anything other than this article about this, but I agree, this is completely unnecessary. It honestly feels like a good ol' fashion airport power trip. TSA agents, low level supervisors, airport security thinking they are the most important people in the world, and that you have to respect their authority. And just like some law enforcement officers, they are willing to use ridiculous force. They don't listen to reason, they don't care what their written rules are, they just think you need to do whatever they say. And many times, there's not much you can really do about it, other than complain afterward. On the other hand, customer service jobs would be a lot easier without customers, especially if they are irate/drunk/unreasonable/etc.
exabrial 9y ago
Law states that the person can legally carry their instrument aboard if there's room at the time of boarding, regardless of size of the instrument case. Since she didn't board, I'm hoping this goes to court to strengthen this law as a musician.
- contingencies 9y ago
  I wonder what happens if you make real time music on your computer and they want to classify it as a computer and not an instrument?
  - flavio81 9y ago
    They will ask you: What operating system does your computer have? > <answer mainstream operating system: Windows/Linux/OS X> Then they will tell you "that's not a real time OS, thus you can't possibly be doing real time music with it. Musicians can't stand like audio/keypress latency."
    - contingencies 9y ago
      Perhaps, but there are many non-keyboard input devices with lower latencies, and I actually meant 'live'.
    - zaccus 9y ago
      You don't need a RTOS for music performance in 2017. All 3 of those platforms are fine, musicians use them all the time.
    - dekhn 9y ago
      Everybody doing music on computers where latency matters uses special drivers for their audio cards, and DirectInput-like mechanisms. The latency is acceptable.
- mikestew 9y ago
  Anything bigger than a guitar, and you're likely buying a seat: https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-transportation-issues-final-rule-regarding-air-travel-musical https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-t... (fifth paragraph). In the case of a violin, it will easily fit in an overhead bin or under the seat. Or at least I assume so, based on my experience with a mandolin which is bigger than a violin (not good enough on fiddle to ever need to travel with it). Based on the singular violin case I own, unless you have one of the bomb-proof cases I reference below, it should easily fit in a bin lengthwise (same orientation as a bag), or under a seat with nothing sticking out. That said, reports seem to miss the part where she bought the discount ticket that doesn't allow for carry-on luggage. Now, the events that transpired after this was discussed at the gate were inexcusable. There's no call for that, and were I in that situation I'd probably be awaiting arraignment for popping a gate agent in mouth. On the other hand, if you have an instrument described to be "worth more than her car", don't cheap out on your ticket, and sure as hell don't buy a ticket that disallows carry-ons, hoping they'll make an exception when you get there. Get the pre-boarding or whatever needed to ensure you're not last on the plane. Personally, I pay a little extra on the ticket such that I'm not in the last group to board. I use a case with backpack straps because I theorize it looks less like an instrument, and more like I'm just some bro with his pack. Most of the time I carry a cheaper instrument ($500 or less) that's a long way from being worth what my car is, so if it goes in the hold, I won't be too upset. And if I bring the nice instrument that's worth several thousands of dollars, it rides in an $800 case just in case I'm force to check it (if it gets hurt in that case, it's because a bomb went off in the cargo hold). All that being said, I've always just walked on with the instrument and no one so much as bats an eye.
ameesdotme 9y ago
Is this a follow up to injuring a woman in a wheelchair yesterday? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/woman-confined-wheelchair-dropped-united-flight-lawsuit-article-1.3228429 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/woman-confined-whee...

44 points by CarolineW 9y ago

Bizarre. I can't imagine what makes a supervisor think that it is okay to forcefully take a customer's luggage from them. Why not just go "Well, you can't fly with us then."?

nucleardog 9y ago
Yeah like, how does it devolve to this? "These are the conditions for you to board the plane. If you don't comply, you cannot board the plane. If you attempt to force your way onto the plane, the police will remove and arrest you." At no point is "forcefully taking the passenger's luggage" a reasonable thing to be doing, nor necessary.
- cbanek 9y ago
  So I haven't seen anything other than this article about this, but I agree, this is completely unnecessary. It honestly feels like a good ol' fashion airport power trip. TSA agents, low level supervisors, airport security thinking they are the most important people in the world, and that you have to respect their authority. And just like some law enforcement officers, they are willing to use ridiculous force. They don't listen to reason, they don't care what their written rules are, they just think you need to do whatever they say. And many times, there's not much you can really do about it, other than complain afterward. On the other hand, customer service jobs would be a lot easier without customers, especially if they are irate/drunk/unreasonable/etc.

exabrial 9y ago

Law states that the person can legally carry their instrument aboard if there's room at the time of boarding, regardless of size of the instrument case. Since she didn't board, I'm hoping this goes to court to strengthen this law as a musician.

contingencies 9y ago
I wonder what happens if you make real time music on your computer and they want to classify it as a computer and not an instrument?
- flavio81 9y ago
  They will ask you: What operating system does your computer have? > <answer mainstream operating system: Windows/Linux/OS X> Then they will tell you "that's not a real time OS, thus you can't possibly be doing real time music with it. Musicians can't stand like audio/keypress latency."
  - contingencies 9y ago
    Perhaps, but there are many non-keyboard input devices with lower latencies, and I actually meant 'live'.
  - zaccus 9y ago
    You don't need a RTOS for music performance in 2017. All 3 of those platforms are fine, musicians use them all the time.
  - dekhn 9y ago
    Everybody doing music on computers where latency matters uses special drivers for their audio cards, and DirectInput-like mechanisms. The latency is acceptable.
mikestew 9y ago
Anything bigger than a guitar, and you're likely buying a seat: https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-transportation-issues-final-rule-regarding-air-travel-musical https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-t... (fifth paragraph). In the case of a violin, it will easily fit in an overhead bin or under the seat. Or at least I assume so, based on my experience with a mandolin which is bigger than a violin (not good enough on fiddle to ever need to travel with it). Based on the singular violin case I own, unless you have one of the bomb-proof cases I reference below, it should easily fit in a bin lengthwise (same orientation as a bag), or under a seat with nothing sticking out. That said, reports seem to miss the part where she bought the discount ticket that doesn't allow for carry-on luggage. Now, the events that transpired after this was discussed at the gate were inexcusable. There's no call for that, and were I in that situation I'd probably be awaiting arraignment for popping a gate agent in mouth. On the other hand, if you have an instrument described to be "worth more than her car", don't cheap out on your ticket, and sure as hell don't buy a ticket that disallows carry-ons, hoping they'll make an exception when you get there. Get the pre-boarding or whatever needed to ensure you're not last on the plane. Personally, I pay a little extra on the ticket such that I'm not in the last group to board. I use a case with backpack straps because I theorize it looks less like an instrument, and more like I'm just some bro with his pack. Most of the time I carry a cheaper instrument ($500 or less) that's a long way from being worth what my car is, so if it goes in the hold, I won't be too upset. And if I bring the nice instrument that's worth several thousands of dollars, it rides in an $800 case just in case I'm force to check it (if it gets hurt in that case, it's because a bomb went off in the cargo hold). All that being said, I've always just walked on with the instrument and no one so much as bats an eye.

ameesdotme 9y ago

Is this a follow up to injuring a woman in a wheelchair yesterday? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/woman-confined-wheelchair-dropped-united-flight-lawsuit-article-1.3228429 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/woman-confined-whee...