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As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getting aren't necessarily worth all that much to the educational romantics. Business administration is what it is.

jjtheblunt 9y ago
One reality that was a glaring counterexample to your assertion, likely still is, is as follows. Universities are the only place young folk can get unfettered access to top notch capital investments, as would folks in vocational schools. Think supercomputers and other engineering pursuits, for example. Your argument likely stands in non engineering pursuits that I'm unfamiliar with, I have to agree.
mnm1 9y ago
In other words, stay dumb, education is not worth it. Yup, that's exactly what our culture needs more of.
mrout 9y ago
Education isn't about money.
forkandwait 9y ago
> Wasting four years is a huge cost. At college I: learned calculus, computer programming, advanced mathematics, urban planning, how to communicate like a grown up, and those are just the big topics. I also took acting classes and learned social skills and made lifelong friends. When I graduated, a professor arranged my first professional job which was an order of magnitude better than any blue collar gig I had ever had. Now I have an interesting job that I feel good about, make 90k a year with benefits and a pension, and go home at 5:30 every night; this job would not be possible without college. I took out 20,000 in loans to go for the last two years after transfering from community college (with no loan for that). So, ... what the fuck did you do at college that you are calling it a "waste"? My life is completely different because I went to college, and the same is true for everyone I know. Now, I think there is a problem when naive, often blue collar people, go to college and don't know how to make the most of that experience: they don't know how to talk to professors so they get their help and friendship, what courses to take, how to study, how to schedule their own time and not spend it getting wasted, or how to use their degree to get professional jobs afterward. Even though I was a returning student, I grew up in a very educated professional world, and that was not hard for me. Probably doesn't matter, but I got a BA in math from a mediocre regional state school as returning student, graduating at the age of 30 or 31 (I don't remember).
- pas 9y ago
  > I think there is a problem when [naive -> people], go to college and ... That's the problem. It's not a good system. Too many false positives.
  - TearsInTheRain 9y ago
    > I think there is a problem when naive, often blue collar people, go to college...
  - forkandwait 9y ago
    It is a great system for the professional class... ... so I would say the problem is "we need to educated blue collar people better so they take advantage of the opportunities to advancement offered by the educational system". That is very true. But, in general, blue collar people get fucked over in multiple ways and this is just one way. That is very different than "college is a waste" (jesus, what an idiotic thing to even say out loud...)
- DoofusOfDeath 9y ago
  > So, ... what the f@@@ did you do at college that you are calling it a "waste"? I think your mistake is in assuming that your experience is typical.
  - forkandwait 9y ago
    Out of the 100 or so people I know my experience is very typical.
    - cbhl 9y ago
      But the 100 people you would know would be biased towards Math grads, and less towards English or Environment majors, right? Survivorship bias means you would be less likely to be in touch with collage drop-outs.
      - 9y ago
staticelf 9y ago
What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for free instead of not getting educated? EDIT: For the butthurt americans, I don't mean that your country isn't modern and I understand that not every country even in europe offer free education. I just think a modern country should offer free education as they offer free roads to travel on. It works great in every country that has it, why do you think the US would suffer if you started doing the same?
- mncolinlee 9y ago
  We already provide free college to the best performing students and those students very likely achieve much higher ROI. I benefitted from a four-year tuition, room, and board scholarship from my college, as did my brother and sister from theirs. However, only a fraction of a percent receives academic scholarships and a good portion of scholarships go to star athletes instead. The German system is nearly comparable. Only 10% of Germans are accepted to Gymnasiums followed by Universitat. If you test highly enough to qualify there, your college is free. Other students get free trade school. Perhaps America should expand scholarships to more students instead of eliminating them along with other cuts? We seem to have far too much money for sports programs and war while cutting everything else. I've never seen any highly-placed leaders propose that war plans involve a cost-benefit analysis or that cuts should go to the men's football team.
  - staticelf 9y ago
    There could be tons of reasons on why you would score badly in your younger years. That shouldn't mean that you should be excluded from a chance to college IMO. I performed pretty badly before my high school (gymnasium) but after that I performed well as I found what I was interested in. But I didn't have like the best scores but I still have a good education in IT and works as a competent programmer today. Perhaps I wouldn't be as successful if college weren't free in my country. It's just stupid not to offer college for free. A less educated population leads to bad things. Just see who the US president is.
ue_ 9y ago
I'm in university right now, and the reason why I'm here is mainly so that I can get a degree in order to get hired for a job in the field I want. My parents probably got me into it beacuse of the appeal of classical education but also the fact that they want me to get a job, too. Is there any solution to getting a job without a degree? Especially in those technical subjects such as electronic engineering (what I'm doing now) or computer science?
- smsm42 9y ago
  I've interviewed many people for starting position in software. I've looked at their degree only if there's literally nothing else to look at, and even then it wasn't a major sign. I've seen many people with degrees that are useless, and many people who were very skilled and who I don't even know whether they have a degree and what it is worth. It goes like this: 1. Experience 2. Experience 3. Experience 4. Knowledge 5. Some interviewing skills won't hurt too, since somehow interviewer needs to get to know you a bit 6. Problem-solving skills .... 20. Degree. NB: for bigger companies, it may be different as you need to pass HR screen which may do checkboxing. Fortunately, many are smart enough not to do that, but some do.
  - Tenobrus 9y ago
    Sure, this is probably true for people directly looking for jobs on the market. But I'd say most top students are getting internships pre-graduation and getting good return offers, or just using career fairs (that are targeting new grads specifically). From what I've seen that path can get them much higher than average salaries directly out of college, without any experience to speak of (an internship or two and some small side projects). After that first job it may not matter, but there are very large starting salary differences based on college name and performance.
    - smsm42 9y ago
      Open source/volunteer projects are great at building resume pre-employment. With additional bonus that you can actually show the potential employer your code and not just talk about it. And if you managed to actually run an OSS project while being a student, instead of merely submitting patches to it, that's even more excellent news. College name - sure, if it's MIT, maybe. Or a handful of others. Otherwise - meh, in software world nobody really cares. In business or law maybe different, don't know.
smsm42 9y ago
I don't regret time spent getting higher ed, but I 1) worked while studying 2) didn't end up with debt 3) didn't do it in the US. I honestly have no idea what I would do in US with 100k+ debt load projected at the end of college. I wasn't that financially educated at 17-18... I don't think any common school even cares to give such tools to people. I guess I am lucky I hadn't have to face this problem, but I am kind of terrified what would happen with all that debt load and which social consequences it will bring.
- mrep 9y ago
  Average student debt in the US is only $37,172 [1] which is not insurmountable to pay off. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt#United_States
  - smsm42 9y ago
    Better than I thought, but the trend is not inspiring. 37k is already a lot, and it keeps raising. I think it used to be that if you work while you study and don't go to elite school, you can graduate with little to no debt, not the case anymore. It was $17k even in 2003[1]. Now 37k. In 10 years? Either the trend breaks downward very soon, or we're facing a major crisis there. [1] http://www.onlinecolleges.net/student-debt-in-the-u-s-part-2-a-brief-history-of-student-debt-in-the-united-states/ http://www.onlinecolleges.net/student-debt-in-the-u-s-part-2...
  - rbritton 9y ago
    The household total[0] is more than 30% higher though: $49,905. Combined with the average totals for other forms of debt, paying this off can end up stretched out over a long period of time. [0]: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/average-credit-card-debt-household/ https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/average-credit-card-debt-hou...
kem 9y ago
Your comment about business administration threw me for a loop--I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic or not anymore. These sorts of articles always strike me as naive, and the discussions sort of disingenuous. I'll go along with this thought experiment when I see places stop requiring MBAs of administrators just 'cause (one of the most useless degrees in my opinion), when medical professionals don't need a license to practice, and when companies actually stop looking at degrees when hiring individuals, instead of the exceptions to the rule you always see on the internet ("hey, I hire for my company, and I don't pay attention to degrees. Great. You're like 1/100). Put aside all the unrealistic assumptions being made, that others are posting, such as that money will just fall from the sky to invest, or that 7% annualized return is actually a value that people can count on. It's still ignoring questions like: will I be able to do what I want just teaching myself? Could I get hired as a civil engineer? For every one of these articles, there's another talking about how comp sci graduates are just better prepared for software development, etc. on average than people from other majors who are self-taught. It's funny to me that these statistics and discussions ignore grad school, when a prereq for grad school is going to undergrad. Believe me, I wish everyone would go along with what someone is capable of rather than what their degree rubber stamps (that is, after all, for all the jokes made, the premise of a liberal arts degree--that you don't need to specialize in school to have any given skill in real life). It would be better in so many ways. But society is more superficial than we let on.
chasing 9y ago
You're right that young people need to understand the costs of going to college and make an educated decision about whether spending the time and money on a four-year degree in their field of interest is worth it. If you're goal is to become a doctor, you may not have a choice. If you want to become a painter, maybe you don't need the extra burden of debt. I think you're misguided about the value of a liberal arts education, though. I wish more people had exposure to philosophy, history, and literature classes with teachers with the ability to really illuminate these subjects. Money is important, of course. But then there's becoming a good and thoughtful person. A smartly chosen educational program can help young people with both. (Apologies if you find my attitude frustrating.) (Also, "college is only about money" feels like a variant of "a company should only care about the shareholders." Well, maybe. But that's also an incredibly reductionistic view that can lead people to think of money and only money as the sole reason to pursue an endeavor. I think there are many, many other ways something can be valuable.)
- ferdterguson 9y ago
  If money is no problem for you, hell yeah, get a liberal arts education and pursue your passions. I totally agree that a degree in something you enjoy can be very personally rewarding. Most people don't give a shit about their jobs. They want to be comfortable in their lives, go home at 5, retire early and get on with doing what they like doing. To do that you need money. To get money, you need to have skills that create value for the entity paying you. I'd argue that college is only about the money, because money is more freeing than anything you can learn. Just look at all the dumb rich people in the world and all the smart poor people that can't get a foothold.
blazespin 9y ago
Yeah, we need more people without history degrees. Or philosophy. I mean, seriously, enlightenment is overrated. How are we going to build a better Facebook if everyone is taking art degrees.
udkl 9y ago
I really like what Dan says in his book "How to fail and still win big". Following your passion when young will probably not work out for you in the real world. Passions keep changing. Passion can be created. Invest in skills instead. Every real world skill you learn doubles your chances of success.
coldtea 9y ago
>As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. How about as a society we need to lower college tuition?
- geodel 9y ago
  I paid negligible fees and ended up better but millions who also paid same have almost no liberal/conservative/scientific or job appropriate education or skills.
xbeta 9y ago
Have you thought about the college tuitions is expensive in US because every institution tries to run it like a business. Some countries in Europe offers free university-level education, some even free to foreigners. They also don't have bad quality. Maybe the problem is the US ?
speeder 9y ago
My whole life adults around me (school teachers included) kept telling me I was a genius, that I should go to college, and then I would become rich. When I turned 18, I asked people around me to let me study on my own for a year, before I joined a college. Got a big flat no. People told me to just choose a private college if needed, but that I should go to one no matter what. I am now 29, unemployed, still in debt. College didn't even taught me calculus 1, I am learning that on Coursera. I've yet to see someone convince me that going to college was good idea, it caused lots of problems (including health ones, when I joined college I weighted 85kg, I left college weighting 125kg and horribly sick), gave me no solutions.
- mi100hael 9y ago
  Sounds like there were more problems than just "going to college for 4 years."
shados 9y ago
I went to college not for the money, but because I wanted to get good at something specific that was taught in college. The problem right now is that the culture (especially in the US, as in many other countries its not as bad) is to consider people who didn't go to college failures. People who go through trade schools or apprenticeships are shunned over college grads (even in the case where the later can't get a job while the former does). So people go to college out of peer pressure, not because it's worth it. That's all sorts of messed up.
- pjscott 9y ago
  There's a simple reason for it: since people who don't go to college are considered failures, most everybody who has the test scores to get into college attends, and then some of them flake out and drop out, and the rest graduate. The end result is a generic college degree which says: "This person is smart enough to get into college, and reliable enough not to be kicked out." Which is actually a pretty valuable recommendation, so employers require it, so people who don't go to college have a hard time getting jobs, GOTO 10.

jjtheblunt 9y ago

One reality that was a glaring counterexample to your assertion, likely still is, is as follows. Universities are the only place young folk can get unfettered access to top notch capital investments, as would folks in vocational schools. Think supercomputers and other engineering pursuits, for example. Your argument likely stands in non engineering pursuits that I'm unfamiliar with, I have to agree.

mnm1 9y ago

In other words, stay dumb, education is not worth it. Yup, that's exactly what our culture needs more of.

mrout 9y ago

Education isn't about money.

forkandwait 9y ago

> Wasting four years is a huge cost. At college I: learned calculus, computer programming, advanced mathematics, urban planning, how to communicate like a grown up, and those are just the big topics. I also took acting classes and learned social skills and made lifelong friends. When I graduated, a professor arranged my first professional job which was an order of magnitude better than any blue collar gig I had ever had. Now I have an interesting job that I feel good about, make 90k a year with benefits and a pension, and go home at 5:30 every night; this job would not be possible without college. I took out 20,000 in loans to go for the last two years after transfering from community college (with no loan for that). So, ... what the fuck did you do at college that you are calling it a "waste"? My life is completely different because I went to college, and the same is true for everyone I know. Now, I think there is a problem when naive, often blue collar people, go to college and don't know how to make the most of that experience: they don't know how to talk to professors so they get their help and friendship, what courses to take, how to study, how to schedule their own time and not spend it getting wasted, or how to use their degree to get professional jobs afterward. Even though I was a returning student, I grew up in a very educated professional world, and that was not hard for me. Probably doesn't matter, but I got a BA in math from a mediocre regional state school as returning student, graduating at the age of 30 or 31 (I don't remember).

pas 9y ago
> I think there is a problem when [naive -> people], go to college and ... That's the problem. It's not a good system. Too many false positives.
- TearsInTheRain 9y ago
  > I think there is a problem when naive, often blue collar people, go to college...
- forkandwait 9y ago
  It is a great system for the professional class... ... so I would say the problem is "we need to educated blue collar people better so they take advantage of the opportunities to advancement offered by the educational system". That is very true. But, in general, blue collar people get fucked over in multiple ways and this is just one way. That is very different than "college is a waste" (jesus, what an idiotic thing to even say out loud...)
DoofusOfDeath 9y ago
> So, ... what the f@@@ did you do at college that you are calling it a "waste"? I think your mistake is in assuming that your experience is typical.
- forkandwait 9y ago
  Out of the 100 or so people I know my experience is very typical.
  - cbhl 9y ago
    But the 100 people you would know would be biased towards Math grads, and less towards English or Environment majors, right? Survivorship bias means you would be less likely to be in touch with collage drop-outs.
    - 9y ago

staticelf 9y ago

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for free instead of not getting educated? EDIT: For the butthurt americans, I don't mean that your country isn't modern and I understand that not every country even in europe offer free education. I just think a modern country should offer free education as they offer free roads to travel on. It works great in every country that has it, why do you think the US would suffer if you started doing the same?

mncolinlee 9y ago
We already provide free college to the best performing students and those students very likely achieve much higher ROI. I benefitted from a four-year tuition, room, and board scholarship from my college, as did my brother and sister from theirs. However, only a fraction of a percent receives academic scholarships and a good portion of scholarships go to star athletes instead. The German system is nearly comparable. Only 10% of Germans are accepted to Gymnasiums followed by Universitat. If you test highly enough to qualify there, your college is free. Other students get free trade school. Perhaps America should expand scholarships to more students instead of eliminating them along with other cuts? We seem to have far too much money for sports programs and war while cutting everything else. I've never seen any highly-placed leaders propose that war plans involve a cost-benefit analysis or that cuts should go to the men's football team.
- staticelf 9y ago
  There could be tons of reasons on why you would score badly in your younger years. That shouldn't mean that you should be excluded from a chance to college IMO. I performed pretty badly before my high school (gymnasium) but after that I performed well as I found what I was interested in. But I didn't have like the best scores but I still have a good education in IT and works as a competent programmer today. Perhaps I wouldn't be as successful if college weren't free in my country. It's just stupid not to offer college for free. A less educated population leads to bad things. Just see who the US president is.

ue_ 9y ago

I'm in university right now, and the reason why I'm here is mainly so that I can get a degree in order to get hired for a job in the field I want. My parents probably got me into it beacuse of the appeal of classical education but also the fact that they want me to get a job, too. Is there any solution to getting a job without a degree? Especially in those technical subjects such as electronic engineering (what I'm doing now) or computer science?

smsm42 9y ago
I've interviewed many people for starting position in software. I've looked at their degree only if there's literally nothing else to look at, and even then it wasn't a major sign. I've seen many people with degrees that are useless, and many people who were very skilled and who I don't even know whether they have a degree and what it is worth. It goes like this: 1. Experience 2. Experience 3. Experience 4. Knowledge 5. Some interviewing skills won't hurt too, since somehow interviewer needs to get to know you a bit 6. Problem-solving skills .... 20. Degree. NB: for bigger companies, it may be different as you need to pass HR screen which may do checkboxing. Fortunately, many are smart enough not to do that, but some do.
- Tenobrus 9y ago
  Sure, this is probably true for people directly looking for jobs on the market. But I'd say most top students are getting internships pre-graduation and getting good return offers, or just using career fairs (that are targeting new grads specifically). From what I've seen that path can get them much higher than average salaries directly out of college, without any experience to speak of (an internship or two and some small side projects). After that first job it may not matter, but there are very large starting salary differences based on college name and performance.
  - smsm42 9y ago
    Open source/volunteer projects are great at building resume pre-employment. With additional bonus that you can actually show the potential employer your code and not just talk about it. And if you managed to actually run an OSS project while being a student, instead of merely submitting patches to it, that's even more excellent news. College name - sure, if it's MIT, maybe. Or a handful of others. Otherwise - meh, in software world nobody really cares. In business or law maybe different, don't know.

smsm42 9y ago

I don't regret time spent getting higher ed, but I 1) worked while studying 2) didn't end up with debt 3) didn't do it in the US. I honestly have no idea what I would do in US with 100k+ debt load projected at the end of college. I wasn't that financially educated at 17-18... I don't think any common school even cares to give such tools to people. I guess I am lucky I hadn't have to face this problem, but I am kind of terrified what would happen with all that debt load and which social consequences it will bring.

mrep 9y ago
Average student debt in the US is only $37,172 [1] which is not insurmountable to pay off. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt#United_States
- smsm42 9y ago
  Better than I thought, but the trend is not inspiring. 37k is already a lot, and it keeps raising. I think it used to be that if you work while you study and don't go to elite school, you can graduate with little to no debt, not the case anymore. It was $17k even in 2003[1]. Now 37k. In 10 years? Either the trend breaks downward very soon, or we're facing a major crisis there. [1] http://www.onlinecolleges.net/student-debt-in-the-u-s-part-2-a-brief-history-of-student-debt-in-the-united-states/ http://www.onlinecolleges.net/student-debt-in-the-u-s-part-2...
- rbritton 9y ago
  The household total[0] is more than 30% higher though: $49,905. Combined with the average totals for other forms of debt, paying this off can end up stretched out over a long period of time. [0]: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/average-credit-card-debt-household/ https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/average-credit-card-debt-hou...

kem 9y ago

Your comment about business administration threw me for a loop--I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic or not anymore. These sorts of articles always strike me as naive, and the discussions sort of disingenuous. I'll go along with this thought experiment when I see places stop requiring MBAs of administrators just 'cause (one of the most useless degrees in my opinion), when medical professionals don't need a license to practice, and when companies actually stop looking at degrees when hiring individuals, instead of the exceptions to the rule you always see on the internet ("hey, I hire for my company, and I don't pay attention to degrees. Great. You're like 1/100). Put aside all the unrealistic assumptions being made, that others are posting, such as that money will just fall from the sky to invest, or that 7% annualized return is actually a value that people can count on. It's still ignoring questions like: will I be able to do what I want just teaching myself? Could I get hired as a civil engineer? For every one of these articles, there's another talking about how comp sci graduates are just better prepared for software development, etc. on average than people from other majors who are self-taught. It's funny to me that these statistics and discussions ignore grad school, when a prereq for grad school is going to undergrad. Believe me, I wish everyone would go along with what someone is capable of rather than what their degree rubber stamps (that is, after all, for all the jokes made, the premise of a liberal arts degree--that you don't need to specialize in school to have any given skill in real life). It would be better in so many ways. But society is more superficial than we let on.

chasing 9y ago

You're right that young people need to understand the costs of going to college and make an educated decision about whether spending the time and money on a four-year degree in their field of interest is worth it. If you're goal is to become a doctor, you may not have a choice. If you want to become a painter, maybe you don't need the extra burden of debt. I think you're misguided about the value of a liberal arts education, though. I wish more people had exposure to philosophy, history, and literature classes with teachers with the ability to really illuminate these subjects. Money is important, of course. But then there's becoming a good and thoughtful person. A smartly chosen educational program can help young people with both. (Apologies if you find my attitude frustrating.) (Also, "college is only about money" feels like a variant of "a company should only care about the shareholders." Well, maybe. But that's also an incredibly reductionistic view that can lead people to think of money and only money as the sole reason to pursue an endeavor. I think there are many, many other ways something can be valuable.)

ferdterguson 9y ago
If money is no problem for you, hell yeah, get a liberal arts education and pursue your passions. I totally agree that a degree in something you enjoy can be very personally rewarding. Most people don't give a shit about their jobs. They want to be comfortable in their lives, go home at 5, retire early and get on with doing what they like doing. To do that you need money. To get money, you need to have skills that create value for the entity paying you. I'd argue that college is only about the money, because money is more freeing than anything you can learn. Just look at all the dumb rich people in the world and all the smart poor people that can't get a foothold.

blazespin 9y ago

Yeah, we need more people without history degrees. Or philosophy. I mean, seriously, enlightenment is overrated. How are we going to build a better Facebook if everyone is taking art degrees.

udkl 9y ago

I really like what Dan says in his book "How to fail and still win big". Following your passion when young will probably not work out for you in the real world. Passions keep changing. Passion can be created. Invest in skills instead. Every real world skill you learn doubles your chances of success.

coldtea 9y ago

>As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. How about as a society we need to lower college tuition?

geodel 9y ago
I paid negligible fees and ended up better but millions who also paid same have almost no liberal/conservative/scientific or job appropriate education or skills.

xbeta 9y ago

Have you thought about the college tuitions is expensive in US because every institution tries to run it like a business. Some countries in Europe offers free university-level education, some even free to foreigners. They also don't have bad quality. Maybe the problem is the US ?

speeder 9y ago

My whole life adults around me (school teachers included) kept telling me I was a genius, that I should go to college, and then I would become rich. When I turned 18, I asked people around me to let me study on my own for a year, before I joined a college. Got a big flat no. People told me to just choose a private college if needed, but that I should go to one no matter what. I am now 29, unemployed, still in debt. College didn't even taught me calculus 1, I am learning that on Coursera. I've yet to see someone convince me that going to college was good idea, it caused lots of problems (including health ones, when I joined college I weighted 85kg, I left college weighting 125kg and horribly sick), gave me no solutions.

mi100hael 9y ago
Sounds like there were more problems than just "going to college for 4 years."

shados 9y ago

I went to college not for the money, but because I wanted to get good at something specific that was taught in college. The problem right now is that the culture (especially in the US, as in many other countries its not as bad) is to consider people who didn't go to college failures. People who go through trade schools or apprenticeships are shunned over college grads (even in the case where the later can't get a job while the former does). So people go to college out of peer pressure, not because it's worth it. That's all sorts of messed up.

pjscott 9y ago
There's a simple reason for it: since people who don't go to college are considered failures, most everybody who has the test scores to get into college attends, and then some of them flake out and drop out, and the rest graduate. The end result is a generic college degree which says: "This person is smart enough to get into college, and reliable enough not to be kicked out." Which is actually a pretty valuable recommendation, so employers require it, so people who don't go to college have a hard time getting jobs, GOTO 10.