8 ms·

Someone forged my resignation letter

269 points by techolic 9y ago

pkaye 9y ago
How do people afford a knowledgeable lawyer and forensics expert as mentioned in some of the replies? Don't they get expensive fast? What if you lose the case... how much money will you be out?
- pitaj 9y ago
  The lawyer isn't for a lawsuit, it's for a legal opinion on what their options are.
- jerven 9y ago
  Many people have legal dispute insurance (at least in Norway, Netherlands, and Switzerland[1] this is not uncommon once you make a normal IT salary). It is not that expensive and well worth having. They wont pay for top lawyers, but it will pay for legal advice and normalish proceedings, especially on common legal areas related to hiring and firing. Secondly, advice about going to lawyer does not mean sue until it hits the supreme court. It means, get professional advice on the likely outcomes of the different actions. Such as what kind of settlements can you expect, are you like to win on procedural grounds etc... How to best proceed etc... and what outcomes are acceptable to you. This kind of advice will give you an expected ROI on different approaches that are available to you. Upon which you make an "investment" decision on which approach will be the best for you (not always financial). Normally such a conversation won't take to long and will not be billed at the legal firms top rate. [1]: https://www.generali.ch/en/privatkunden/haftung-recht/rechtsschutzversicherung https://www.generali.ch/en/privatkunden/haftung-recht/rechts... (which is the one I pay for)
  - eridius 9y ago
    Speaking as someone in the US, I've never heard of legal dispute insurance before.
    - dx034 9y ago
      It's a European thing, as people in many European countries will sue much later than in the US and court cases are usually quite cheap. Most lawyers in Europe don't make a huge amount of money (unless you're a corporate lawyer), so that many cases will only cost the insurance a few hundred dollars.
    - spuz 9y ago
      In one of the most litigious societies in the world? I find that extremely surprising. How are all these ordinary people able to afford suing big companies because they burnt their tongue on their coffee?
      - skookum 9y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_fee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_fee
  - tomp 9y ago
    What's a "normal IT salary" in Switzerland?
    - jerven 9y ago
      According to a poster I saw once posted in front of my house, the average IT salary is 8700 CHF a month. But expect more depending on the region and for programmers.
- nextlevelwizard 9y ago
  Legal advice from union lawyer is free (at least here) and since this obviously breaches contract even the court battle would be free or at minimum cost (this is exactly why we have unions)
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Sanddancer 9y ago
  Consultations tend to be relatively inexpensive, and a lot of lawyers in the realm of employment law will work on a contingency basis -- you pay a certain percentage of the settlement/award amount. If you lose, you don't owe the lawyer anything.
forvelin 9y ago
Local IT guy in the company is only person to help most likely, it would be first person to reach for such sneaky task. Either he would know or would have logs. Though, seems hard to solve, especially if he is out of US/Europe.
- BugsJustFindMe 9y ago
  > Either he would know or would have logs. Uh...or be the culprit.
  - sockgrant 9y ago
    Yeah. But if he's not the culprit he's the best person to help. Also, unless there's a personal vendetta, the biggest motive for someone doing this is someone that doesn't want to pay the expense of an employee on leave for awhile.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
Kenji 9y ago
Well, if the employer is just like "Well, sorry, too late now, we don't care that it's a forgery" then maybe it was a good thing you can move on.
- Normal_gaussian 9y ago
  Except now he's out of pocket
  - mcv 9y ago
    Yeah, some severance pay would be appropriate at least.
johngalt 9y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if that "someone" was the CEO or someone working on the CEO's behalf. What else could even make sense? Even if some coworker had a grudge or a bone to pick with OP, they had to know that OP would return eventually and any CEO worth his salt would demand answers immediately. Specially considering the legal risks exposed here for firing someone on FMLA qualifying leave (assuming US). Weigh that against a CEO who accepted a resignation and re-hired for the position based on a single email alone without so much as a follow up call. When OP returns seems lackadaisical about investigating. Seems fishy to me.
- nomadic_09 9y ago
  Be that as it may, the OP never mentioned where he is working from. As you probably already know, labor laws and business culture differ depending on where you live. For instance, I live and work in Saudi Arabia right now, and there is a lot of red tape around firing Saudis in the workplace--even wages are partly determined by your country of origin.
- aerovistae 9y ago
  Completely agreed. The fact that the CEO didn't call to talk to him is fishy as hell. Even to say "I'm really sorry about your mother and I'm sorry this didn't work out." This really seems like the CEO committing fraud to free himself of a problem he felt he had no other way to solve.
  - ianai 9y ago
    I don't know how I'd fight this or if it'd be worth it. You can sue anybody for anything, of course. But if the CEO is willing to commit fraud to this extent - maybe it's best to cut the loss?
    - LeoNatan25 9y ago
      It probably is, but he can at least see some money from it. The punitive aspect of such a win is also very important.
    - deleted 9y ago
b3lvedere 9y ago
"We used to do it as jokes but it was never used for something like this and I can’t imagine anyone that would hate me enough to go this far." It's all fun and games, until ...
- arjie 9y ago
  What even is the point of requiring a dongle if you can do this? Checkbox security at its best.
  - leni536 9y ago
    Yeah, at this point if it's an actual cryptographic security key, it could be used to sign each and every e-mail.
  - dx034 9y ago
    You can do this with most systems. Just edit the From field in a script. External emails will usually be blocked and you can still see in the header that it was not sent from the actual account so that the risk of fraud is low. If it happened with a script it should be easy to find out by looking at logs and/or header.
ars 9y ago
I would tell him go to the CEO and say: "The letter was a forgery, someone in your company is unethical, and you should find out who. As far as I am concerned I am thinking of suing, but if you simply paid out my leave I would be satisfied, and finding the unethical employee will be on you." And that's it. If the CEO is as honest as the question makes him out to be, this should be enough, and it's much simpler. If not, then you lost nothing, and can sue, get a lawyer, etc, as all the answers suggest.
- zaqokm321 9y ago
  > As far as I am concerned I am thinking of suing, but if you simply paid out my leave I would be satisfied. You know to many that type of language would be interpreted as a threat. You might also take into consideration the CEO may legitimately believe the company has done no wrong in this case. Not all people/companies respond to threats by getting scared, many fight back. The allegation which is being made, is that the company accepted a fake/fraudulent letter. It will be highly unlikely that a company would openly admit to be such a victim, unless it was in their best interest. > If the CEO is as honest as the question makes him out to be, this should be enough, and it's much simpler. This is business, a CEO's job is to protect the business not kowtowing to someone who is threatening to sue.
  - thanksgiving 9y ago
    I agree. I would never tell anyone I intend to sue them without taking to a lawyer first.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    To add to that, I do not delineate between threats to sue and suing. If you threaten to sue me I will instruct my lawyers to beat you to the courthouse with a countersuit. I've found this attitude tremendously clarifying in the long run.
    - RugnirViking 9y ago
      To clarify: what do you propose the countersuit would be?
strictfp 9y ago
Re-use the expoit to resign the new guy.
- philbarr 9y ago
  Or, since the CEO takes these resignation letters as undeniable fact, use the exploit to resign the CEO.
_ph_ 9y ago
As said on stackexchange, you should get a lawyer and contact the authorities as a felony has been committed. Even if the company isn't involved in the events, they should not treat you as they did and owe you a proper severance pay.
- meepmorp 9y ago
  Getting a lawyer is a fine idea, but if this happened in the US, they don't owe you anything apart from optional COBRA (medical insurance for purchase). Severance pay is not required, and is typically not paid if a person terminates employment of their own volition. Even if a person is fired/laid off, severance isn't mandatory and is mostly about protecting the company from litigation/employees going to competitors.
lancewiggs 9y ago
I would write a formal letter to the board of directors (and perhaps key external shareholders) as well. It doesn't have to be much - even a forward of the post, letting them know that it refers to you and their company. If they are complicit - it makes a paper trail for others to discover. If they are not complicit then the CEO will get instructed to do the right thing.
bitmapbrother 9y ago
>It could’ve been a colleague because I know there is a backdoor way to send emails using someone else’s account via some sort of a SQL database thing. We used to do it as jokes but it was never used for something like this and I can’t imagine anyone that would hate me enough to go this far. Most places would escort you out of the building for doing this.
- andy_ppp 9y ago
  My friend got managed out of the BBC and had emails confirming a promotion deleted from his inbox; unbelievably they were still in his trash folder. Someone else was promoted in his place while he was away on holiday. Nothing surprises me anymore when people have a sense of entitlement to someone else's promotion.
skrebbel 9y ago
Hardly related, but does anyone know why resignation letters are so popular in the first place? When I quit the only job I ever had, I went to my boss and told him I wanted to quit. We had a constructive conversation. Now, this company has a very strong "talk about it" culture, with super supportive management, etc. No bureaucracy or paperwork anywhere. Nevertheless, my boss was totally surprised that I wanted to talk about resigning. Pleasantly surprised I might add, but still: In his entire career, every employee who had left had written a letter and left it at that. Why do it that way? Of course I understand if there's fundamental disagreements or deep unhappiness, it's a good way to keep emotions out of the way. But that wasn't the case here, and everybody I know who left that company left it on good terms. I ask because I'm an employer now. I try to be a good and open-minded boss, and I'd much rather have someone tell me what's going on than receive a letter out of the blue. Is this wishful thinking?
- flamedoge 9y ago
  Because you know why. Nobody wants to risk getting revenge reference by badmouthing the place. Why risk anything by showing grievances when there is no reward?
- metafunctor 9y ago
  A lot of the time, people resign because they aren't happy with their job, and believe there's not much that they can do about it. Maybe they don't like their manager, or some of their colleagues, or think that the work is boring, or the job is not conductive to their future career success, or that there is something systematically unfair going on in term of work load or salary, or so on. People on a team understand they cannot fire team members, even if they are dickheads. They cannot change what they work on, or double their salary. That means there will be radio silence for the last few weeks or months when they are looking for a new job. Employees also tend to think the employer already knows what the problems are. If the problems are not being addressed, they will think the employer does not think they can or should be fixed. Why bring up something the employer obviously must be aware of, but has done nothing about? In my experience, the resignation announcement will, indeed, usually come out of the blue. For an observant manager, it may not become as a total surprise; there are some signs. But almost never will employees discuss with you about these things in earnest. There will be signs, but not forthright discussion.
bouncycastle 9y ago
Using a throwaway... When I was working at a previous company, my manager jumped on my PC and used it to send an email from my account to my colleague, while I was out on my lunch break. It was a joke, which I thought was highly unprofessional. I asked my colleague, and he said that he seen the manager use my computer. I confronted the manager and she owned up to it. I've asked her to explain, and her excuse was that I should have locked my PC and I didn't take it anywhere further. However, I could see how a more serious incident could happen, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was the CEO where hubris can run rampant at those levels. Usually companies would have audit logs of who and when the account was accessed, I would start looking there.
- oillio 9y ago
  At a previous employer I worked at, this was pretty common. If you left your computer unlocked for any amount of time, you were pretty much guaranteed to be screwed with. Because it was so common, it wasn't a big deal. If you got an odd email from a co-worker, you assumed they must have forgotten to lock their computer. It was a security related company, and the general excuse was that the practice was intended as negative reinforcement to push everyone to have better security practices. I don't know if it was a good or bad culture to have. I can tell you that, to this day, I never leave my computer unlocked.
  - justinclift 9y ago
    I've seen that kind of things at certain previous employers too. I can understand the security perspective, but strongly don't agree with the direction it then leads people → "your workmates can't be trusted". That's rarely a productive thing to add to any high performance culture mix. :(
  - Aeolun 9y ago
    At the company I worked it was limited to changing the background to something dubious/stupid/interesting.
    - falsedan 9y ago
MrQuincle 9y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if this actually didn't happen. Let's see if there are elements in the story that stand out if we take this perspective. (It is much harder than detecting photoshop effects). + He could have been on holidays, or getting a child, but it is the death of his mother. Of course, we are gonna feel really bad for him. That's really good for the story. + The security of the system is such that on one hand a dongle is needed, but on the other hand someone can fake sending email through your account. This is apparently widely known by non-expert colleagues to just joke around, but not known by the security staff. + Technological "details" that do not seem to make sense such as SQL to make it sound like a true story to the uneducated. + The writer already assumes that we think he is lying. Hence, he comes up with the dongle story. We would already have been fine with his word that he just didn't send the resignation letter. + He physically shows up 6 weeks later without checking his email once (reply email). Of course the effect of the story is much stronger in that case. However, is it very likely not to check your email at least just before you show up at work 6 weeks later? [Edit: incorrect assumption, see @c8g.] Then what would be motive of the person asking the question. It is a throwaway account. + A researcher who wants to see what the difference is between a fake story on Facebook versus one asked on StackOverflow? How could such an effect be properly compared?
- jamespo 9y ago
  Most suspicious to me is if I really wanted help, like this purports to, I'd be following up all the replies for more information avidly.
- Lewton 9y ago
  + The lack of follow up answer to the question "Which country are you in?"
  - MrQuincle 9y ago
    True, I've omitted the things that seem to be platform specific. + No follow up comments on questions for some more info or thanking people that feel for him. + Using a very general name as nickname (although not English). + A throwaway account. Although it's understandable, because it is a personal story; if this would happen to me everyone would know. It also interesting to see how good the story is. When people respond to this in the sense of "who did it?", they come up with the CEO. If he would have weaved in the name of one of his colleagues that used to joke around with fake email addresses, the story plot becomes weaker.
camus2 9y ago
> You need to talk to a lawyer, ASAP. The only acceptable answer. If someone forged your email it becomes wire fraud thus criminal act under federal law. You should consult a lawyer now.
- crispyambulance 9y ago
  The "get a lawyer" advice gets tossed around workplace.stackexchange WAY TOO OFTEN and basically snubs discussion. Getting a lawyer, at a minimum, means forking over a few hundred dollars just for some advice. Going beyond that we're talking hundreds to thousands more for the lawyer to merely write a letter. Going further beyond that, it then becomes the plantiff's "life work" to deal with the court system while paying many thousands to the lawyer for, AT BEST, an iffy outcome after months of drudgery, and yes, then face being effectively blacklisted in the local industry. That said, there are some good reasons for people to get a lawyer but getting fired with a dirty trick (assuming the dubious story is even true) is rarely one of them.
  - LyndsySimon 9y ago
    > Getting a lawyer, at a minimum, means forking over a few hundred dollars just for some advice. Going beyond that we're talking hundreds to thousands more for the lawyer to merely write a letter. This has not been my experience at all. A few years ago I had a dispute over a commercial lease agreement with my landlord. I did all the research I could and wrote a short summary of my position on the matter, along with a few relevant citations. I made an appointment with an attorney and asked that she write a lease addendum that terminated the lease immediately and held harmless both parties, which included my reasoning for doing so. I paid her $120 for her time to write the letter, and it was invaluable as leverage in negotiating with my landlord - there's a big difference between saying "I'm gonna sue!" and bringing a document to the meeting prepared by your attorney to resolve the disagreement. Hiring an attorney doesn't have to cost a fortune - you just have to take steps to minimize the time they have to spend on your case.
partycoder 9y ago
Someone was probably ghetto testing the possibility of doing it.
ForFreedom 9y ago
You don't need a dongle, backend sql db or infact anything to send a forged email but just a terminal on linux would do. The company should have investigated if he did or didn't send the email
jangid 9y ago
It is difficult to believe that the guy has sent a resignation email and the CEO didn't even talk to him over the phone.
- spuz 9y ago
  It's possible the CEO did try to ring him but didn't get hold of him. From the lack of response the CEO assumed the guy was serious about his resignation and went ahead.
  - jangid 9y ago
    The author hasn't mentioned it. But yes, it is possible.
adxlarbi 9y ago
My only question here, why he haven't reported the email backdoor to the IT ?
Mao_Zedang 9y ago
How do you accept your exit package without signing anything in person, I have never had a job where a single resignation email was enough for HR to close you out as an employee, this smells super made up.
midnitewarrior 9y ago
If you could see the email, look at the email headers. It should indicate what IP address and email program sent the email, as in, it may say SQLMail and it IP of the machine.
- Tomino 9y ago
  Finally someone using their head instead of just blindly speculating. SQL keeps history of commands as well. Plus if this company is so "advanced" that they use some kind of SQL procedures to send email, I am sure there are plenty of other audit trails they can follow to verify where the message came from. All-in-all, the fact that he mentions he exploited security hole in his company and then calls it "SQL thing" screams at me: FAKE
  - ealhad 9y ago
    > All-in-all, the fact that he mentions he exploited security hole in his company and then calls it "SQL thing" screams at me: FAKE Why? That doesn't surprise me at all. As a (Computer Science) student, there were a lot of jokes (e.g. connecting to other computers, and doing... stuff) involving scripts that most people just blindly copied, without understanding them at all. And I have seen the same last year during an internship.
mbubb 9y ago
"ain't passed the bar/ but I know a little bit" He probably does not work in a 'right to work' state as the employer would not need to justify their action with a resignation letter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law The scenario is odd - I understand dropping things to take care of a relative. But a 6-week interval is too great in this day. There should have been some further communication of intent.
- lostboys67 9y ago
  I suspect the country is India or possibly some one working in a body shop in the US
forgotpwtomain 9y ago
Why is this on HN? The top-voted comment here calls it fake, not a single comment adds anything substantial that wasn't written on SE. As far as I can tell it's just tabloidish voyeurism...
forgotpwtomain 9y ago
Why is this on HN? The top-voted comment here calls it fake, not a single comment adds anything substantial that wasn't written on SE. As far as I can tell it's just tabloidish voyeurism...

269 points by techolic 9y ago

How do people afford a knowledgeable lawyer and forensics expert as mentioned in some of the replies? Don't they get expensive fast? What if you lose the case... how much money will you be out?

pitaj 9y ago
The lawyer isn't for a lawsuit, it's for a legal opinion on what their options are.
jerven 9y ago
Many people have legal dispute insurance (at least in Norway, Netherlands, and Switzerland[1] this is not uncommon once you make a normal IT salary). It is not that expensive and well worth having. They wont pay for top lawyers, but it will pay for legal advice and normalish proceedings, especially on common legal areas related to hiring and firing. Secondly, advice about going to lawyer does not mean sue until it hits the supreme court. It means, get professional advice on the likely outcomes of the different actions. Such as what kind of settlements can you expect, are you like to win on procedural grounds etc... How to best proceed etc... and what outcomes are acceptable to you. This kind of advice will give you an expected ROI on different approaches that are available to you. Upon which you make an "investment" decision on which approach will be the best for you (not always financial). Normally such a conversation won't take to long and will not be billed at the legal firms top rate. [1]: https://www.generali.ch/en/privatkunden/haftung-recht/rechtsschutzversicherung https://www.generali.ch/en/privatkunden/haftung-recht/rechts... (which is the one I pay for)
- eridius 9y ago
  Speaking as someone in the US, I've never heard of legal dispute insurance before.
  - dx034 9y ago
    It's a European thing, as people in many European countries will sue much later than in the US and court cases are usually quite cheap. Most lawyers in Europe don't make a huge amount of money (unless you're a corporate lawyer), so that many cases will only cost the insurance a few hundred dollars.
  - spuz 9y ago
    In one of the most litigious societies in the world? I find that extremely surprising. How are all these ordinary people able to afford suing big companies because they burnt their tongue on their coffee?
    - skookum 9y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_fee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_fee
- tomp 9y ago
  What's a "normal IT salary" in Switzerland?
  - jerven 9y ago
    According to a poster I saw once posted in front of my house, the average IT salary is 8700 CHF a month. But expect more depending on the region and for programmers.
nextlevelwizard 9y ago
Legal advice from union lawyer is free (at least here) and since this obviously breaches contract even the court battle would be free or at minimum cost (this is exactly why we have unions)
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Sanddancer 9y ago
Consultations tend to be relatively inexpensive, and a lot of lawyers in the realm of employment law will work on a contingency basis -- you pay a certain percentage of the settlement/award amount. If you lose, you don't owe the lawyer anything.

forvelin 9y ago

Local IT guy in the company is only person to help most likely, it would be first person to reach for such sneaky task. Either he would know or would have logs. Though, seems hard to solve, especially if he is out of US/Europe.

BugsJustFindMe 9y ago
> Either he would know or would have logs. Uh...or be the culprit.
- sockgrant 9y ago
  Yeah. But if he's not the culprit he's the best person to help. Also, unless there's a personal vendetta, the biggest motive for someone doing this is someone that doesn't want to pay the expense of an employee on leave for awhile.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

Kenji 9y ago

Well, if the employer is just like "Well, sorry, too late now, we don't care that it's a forgery" then maybe it was a good thing you can move on.

Normal_gaussian 9y ago
Except now he's out of pocket
- mcv 9y ago
  Yeah, some severance pay would be appropriate at least.

johngalt 9y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if that "someone" was the CEO or someone working on the CEO's behalf. What else could even make sense? Even if some coworker had a grudge or a bone to pick with OP, they had to know that OP would return eventually and any CEO worth his salt would demand answers immediately. Specially considering the legal risks exposed here for firing someone on FMLA qualifying leave (assuming US). Weigh that against a CEO who accepted a resignation and re-hired for the position based on a single email alone without so much as a follow up call. When OP returns seems lackadaisical about investigating. Seems fishy to me.

nomadic_09 9y ago
Be that as it may, the OP never mentioned where he is working from. As you probably already know, labor laws and business culture differ depending on where you live. For instance, I live and work in Saudi Arabia right now, and there is a lot of red tape around firing Saudis in the workplace--even wages are partly determined by your country of origin.
aerovistae 9y ago
Completely agreed. The fact that the CEO didn't call to talk to him is fishy as hell. Even to say "I'm really sorry about your mother and I'm sorry this didn't work out." This really seems like the CEO committing fraud to free himself of a problem he felt he had no other way to solve.
- ianai 9y ago
  I don't know how I'd fight this or if it'd be worth it. You can sue anybody for anything, of course. But if the CEO is willing to commit fraud to this extent - maybe it's best to cut the loss?
  - LeoNatan25 9y ago
    It probably is, but he can at least see some money from it. The punitive aspect of such a win is also very important.
  - deleted 9y ago

b3lvedere 9y ago

"We used to do it as jokes but it was never used for something like this and I can’t imagine anyone that would hate me enough to go this far." It's all fun and games, until ...

arjie 9y ago
What even is the point of requiring a dongle if you can do this? Checkbox security at its best.
- leni536 9y ago
  Yeah, at this point if it's an actual cryptographic security key, it could be used to sign each and every e-mail.
- dx034 9y ago
  You can do this with most systems. Just edit the From field in a script. External emails will usually be blocked and you can still see in the header that it was not sent from the actual account so that the risk of fraud is low. If it happened with a script it should be easy to find out by looking at logs and/or header.

ars 9y ago

I would tell him go to the CEO and say: "The letter was a forgery, someone in your company is unethical, and you should find out who. As far as I am concerned I am thinking of suing, but if you simply paid out my leave I would be satisfied, and finding the unethical employee will be on you." And that's it. If the CEO is as honest as the question makes him out to be, this should be enough, and it's much simpler. If not, then you lost nothing, and can sue, get a lawyer, etc, as all the answers suggest.

zaqokm321 9y ago
> As far as I am concerned I am thinking of suing, but if you simply paid out my leave I would be satisfied. You know to many that type of language would be interpreted as a threat. You might also take into consideration the CEO may legitimately believe the company has done no wrong in this case. Not all people/companies respond to threats by getting scared, many fight back. The allegation which is being made, is that the company accepted a fake/fraudulent letter. It will be highly unlikely that a company would openly admit to be such a victim, unless it was in their best interest. > If the CEO is as honest as the question makes him out to be, this should be enough, and it's much simpler. This is business, a CEO's job is to protect the business not kowtowing to someone who is threatening to sue.
- thanksgiving 9y ago
  I agree. I would never tell anyone I intend to sue them without taking to a lawyer first.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  To add to that, I do not delineate between threats to sue and suing. If you threaten to sue me I will instruct my lawyers to beat you to the courthouse with a countersuit. I've found this attitude tremendously clarifying in the long run.
  - RugnirViking 9y ago
    To clarify: what do you propose the countersuit would be?

strictfp 9y ago

Re-use the expoit to resign the new guy.

philbarr 9y ago
Or, since the CEO takes these resignation letters as undeniable fact, use the exploit to resign the CEO.

_ph_ 9y ago

As said on stackexchange, you should get a lawyer and contact the authorities as a felony has been committed. Even if the company isn't involved in the events, they should not treat you as they did and owe you a proper severance pay.

meepmorp 9y ago
Getting a lawyer is a fine idea, but if this happened in the US, they don't owe you anything apart from optional COBRA (medical insurance for purchase). Severance pay is not required, and is typically not paid if a person terminates employment of their own volition. Even if a person is fired/laid off, severance isn't mandatory and is mostly about protecting the company from litigation/employees going to competitors.

lancewiggs 9y ago

I would write a formal letter to the board of directors (and perhaps key external shareholders) as well. It doesn't have to be much - even a forward of the post, letting them know that it refers to you and their company. If they are complicit - it makes a paper trail for others to discover. If they are not complicit then the CEO will get instructed to do the right thing.

bitmapbrother 9y ago

>It could’ve been a colleague because I know there is a backdoor way to send emails using someone else’s account via some sort of a SQL database thing. We used to do it as jokes but it was never used for something like this and I can’t imagine anyone that would hate me enough to go this far. Most places would escort you out of the building for doing this.

andy_ppp 9y ago
My friend got managed out of the BBC and had emails confirming a promotion deleted from his inbox; unbelievably they were still in his trash folder. Someone else was promoted in his place while he was away on holiday. Nothing surprises me anymore when people have a sense of entitlement to someone else's promotion.

skrebbel 9y ago

Hardly related, but does anyone know why resignation letters are so popular in the first place? When I quit the only job I ever had, I went to my boss and told him I wanted to quit. We had a constructive conversation. Now, this company has a very strong "talk about it" culture, with super supportive management, etc. No bureaucracy or paperwork anywhere. Nevertheless, my boss was totally surprised that I wanted to talk about resigning. Pleasantly surprised I might add, but still: In his entire career, every employee who had left had written a letter and left it at that. Why do it that way? Of course I understand if there's fundamental disagreements or deep unhappiness, it's a good way to keep emotions out of the way. But that wasn't the case here, and everybody I know who left that company left it on good terms. I ask because I'm an employer now. I try to be a good and open-minded boss, and I'd much rather have someone tell me what's going on than receive a letter out of the blue. Is this wishful thinking?

flamedoge 9y ago
Because you know why. Nobody wants to risk getting revenge reference by badmouthing the place. Why risk anything by showing grievances when there is no reward?
metafunctor 9y ago
A lot of the time, people resign because they aren't happy with their job, and believe there's not much that they can do about it. Maybe they don't like their manager, or some of their colleagues, or think that the work is boring, or the job is not conductive to their future career success, or that there is something systematically unfair going on in term of work load or salary, or so on. People on a team understand they cannot fire team members, even if they are dickheads. They cannot change what they work on, or double their salary. That means there will be radio silence for the last few weeks or months when they are looking for a new job. Employees also tend to think the employer already knows what the problems are. If the problems are not being addressed, they will think the employer does not think they can or should be fixed. Why bring up something the employer obviously must be aware of, but has done nothing about? In my experience, the resignation announcement will, indeed, usually come out of the blue. For an observant manager, it may not become as a total surprise; there are some signs. But almost never will employees discuss with you about these things in earnest. There will be signs, but not forthright discussion.

bouncycastle 9y ago

Using a throwaway... When I was working at a previous company, my manager jumped on my PC and used it to send an email from my account to my colleague, while I was out on my lunch break. It was a joke, which I thought was highly unprofessional. I asked my colleague, and he said that he seen the manager use my computer. I confronted the manager and she owned up to it. I've asked her to explain, and her excuse was that I should have locked my PC and I didn't take it anywhere further. However, I could see how a more serious incident could happen, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was the CEO where hubris can run rampant at those levels. Usually companies would have audit logs of who and when the account was accessed, I would start looking there.

oillio 9y ago
At a previous employer I worked at, this was pretty common. If you left your computer unlocked for any amount of time, you were pretty much guaranteed to be screwed with. Because it was so common, it wasn't a big deal. If you got an odd email from a co-worker, you assumed they must have forgotten to lock their computer. It was a security related company, and the general excuse was that the practice was intended as negative reinforcement to push everyone to have better security practices. I don't know if it was a good or bad culture to have. I can tell you that, to this day, I never leave my computer unlocked.
- justinclift 9y ago
  I've seen that kind of things at certain previous employers too. I can understand the security perspective, but strongly don't agree with the direction it then leads people → "your workmates can't be trusted". That's rarely a productive thing to add to any high performance culture mix. :(
- Aeolun 9y ago
  At the company I worked it was limited to changing the background to something dubious/stupid/interesting.
  - falsedan 9y ago

MrQuincle 9y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if this actually didn't happen. Let's see if there are elements in the story that stand out if we take this perspective. (It is much harder than detecting photoshop effects). + He could have been on holidays, or getting a child, but it is the death of his mother. Of course, we are gonna feel really bad for him. That's really good for the story. + The security of the system is such that on one hand a dongle is needed, but on the other hand someone can fake sending email through your account. This is apparently widely known by non-expert colleagues to just joke around, but not known by the security staff. + Technological "details" that do not seem to make sense such as SQL to make it sound like a true story to the uneducated. + The writer already assumes that we think he is lying. Hence, he comes up with the dongle story. We would already have been fine with his word that he just didn't send the resignation letter. + He physically shows up 6 weeks later without checking his email once (reply email). Of course the effect of the story is much stronger in that case. However, is it very likely not to check your email at least just before you show up at work 6 weeks later? [Edit: incorrect assumption, see @c8g.] Then what would be motive of the person asking the question. It is a throwaway account. + A researcher who wants to see what the difference is between a fake story on Facebook versus one asked on StackOverflow? How could such an effect be properly compared?

jamespo 9y ago
Most suspicious to me is if I really wanted help, like this purports to, I'd be following up all the replies for more information avidly.
Lewton 9y ago
+ The lack of follow up answer to the question "Which country are you in?"
- MrQuincle 9y ago
  True, I've omitted the things that seem to be platform specific. + No follow up comments on questions for some more info or thanking people that feel for him. + Using a very general name as nickname (although not English). + A throwaway account. Although it's understandable, because it is a personal story; if this would happen to me everyone would know. It also interesting to see how good the story is. When people respond to this in the sense of "who did it?", they come up with the CEO. If he would have weaved in the name of one of his colleagues that used to joke around with fake email addresses, the story plot becomes weaker.

camus2 9y ago

> You need to talk to a lawyer, ASAP. The only acceptable answer. If someone forged your email it becomes wire fraud thus criminal act under federal law. You should consult a lawyer now.

crispyambulance 9y ago
The "get a lawyer" advice gets tossed around workplace.stackexchange WAY TOO OFTEN and basically snubs discussion. Getting a lawyer, at a minimum, means forking over a few hundred dollars just for some advice. Going beyond that we're talking hundreds to thousands more for the lawyer to merely write a letter. Going further beyond that, it then becomes the plantiff's "life work" to deal with the court system while paying many thousands to the lawyer for, AT BEST, an iffy outcome after months of drudgery, and yes, then face being effectively blacklisted in the local industry. That said, there are some good reasons for people to get a lawyer but getting fired with a dirty trick (assuming the dubious story is even true) is rarely one of them.
- LyndsySimon 9y ago
  > Getting a lawyer, at a minimum, means forking over a few hundred dollars just for some advice. Going beyond that we're talking hundreds to thousands more for the lawyer to merely write a letter. This has not been my experience at all. A few years ago I had a dispute over a commercial lease agreement with my landlord. I did all the research I could and wrote a short summary of my position on the matter, along with a few relevant citations. I made an appointment with an attorney and asked that she write a lease addendum that terminated the lease immediately and held harmless both parties, which included my reasoning for doing so. I paid her $120 for her time to write the letter, and it was invaluable as leverage in negotiating with my landlord - there's a big difference between saying "I'm gonna sue!" and bringing a document to the meeting prepared by your attorney to resolve the disagreement. Hiring an attorney doesn't have to cost a fortune - you just have to take steps to minimize the time they have to spend on your case.

partycoder 9y ago

Someone was probably ghetto testing the possibility of doing it.

ForFreedom 9y ago

You don't need a dongle, backend sql db or infact anything to send a forged email but just a terminal on linux would do. The company should have investigated if he did or didn't send the email

jangid 9y ago

It is difficult to believe that the guy has sent a resignation email and the CEO didn't even talk to him over the phone.

spuz 9y ago
It's possible the CEO did try to ring him but didn't get hold of him. From the lack of response the CEO assumed the guy was serious about his resignation and went ahead.
- jangid 9y ago
  The author hasn't mentioned it. But yes, it is possible.

adxlarbi 9y ago

My only question here, why he haven't reported the email backdoor to the IT ?

Mao_Zedang 9y ago

How do you accept your exit package without signing anything in person, I have never had a job where a single resignation email was enough for HR to close you out as an employee, this smells super made up.

midnitewarrior 9y ago

If you could see the email, look at the email headers. It should indicate what IP address and email program sent the email, as in, it may say SQLMail and it IP of the machine.

Tomino 9y ago
Finally someone using their head instead of just blindly speculating. SQL keeps history of commands as well. Plus if this company is so "advanced" that they use some kind of SQL procedures to send email, I am sure there are plenty of other audit trails they can follow to verify where the message came from. All-in-all, the fact that he mentions he exploited security hole in his company and then calls it "SQL thing" screams at me: FAKE
- ealhad 9y ago
  > All-in-all, the fact that he mentions he exploited security hole in his company and then calls it "SQL thing" screams at me: FAKE Why? That doesn't surprise me at all. As a (Computer Science) student, there were a lot of jokes (e.g. connecting to other computers, and doing... stuff) involving scripts that most people just blindly copied, without understanding them at all. And I have seen the same last year during an internship.

mbubb 9y ago

"ain't passed the bar/ but I know a little bit" He probably does not work in a 'right to work' state as the employer would not need to justify their action with a resignation letter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law The scenario is odd - I understand dropping things to take care of a relative. But a 6-week interval is too great in this day. There should have been some further communication of intent.

lostboys67 9y ago
I suspect the country is India or possibly some one working in a body shop in the US

forgotpwtomain 9y ago

Why is this on HN? The top-voted comment here calls it fake, not a single comment adds anything substantial that wasn't written on SE. As far as I can tell it's just tabloidish voyeurism...

forgotpwtomain 9y ago

Why is this on HN? The top-voted comment here calls it fake, not a single comment adds anything substantial that wasn't written on SE. As far as I can tell it's just tabloidish voyeurism...