8 ms·

The fear is due to racism, scapegoating, and a general inability to cope with a changing population... https://thinkprogress.org/poll-americans-anti-immigrant-

by brm 9y ago

The fear is due to racism, scapegoating, and a general inability to cope with a changing population... https://thinkprogress.org/poll-americans-anti-immigrant-attitudes-are-fueled-by-racism-30968b83a908 https://thinkprogress.org/poll-americans-anti-immigrant-atti... http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1368430216677304 http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/136843021667730... http://groups.psych.northwestern.edu/spcl/documents/Craig_RichesonPS_updatedversion.pdf http://groups.psych.northwestern.edu/spcl/documents/Craig_Ri... http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10516.html http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10516.html

theparanoid 9y ago
People really are concerned about /jobs/. Most of the US is exactly zero percent richer than 20 years ago. Wages are stagnate. Nobody knows a solution.
- ChristianBundy 9y ago
  Many people know the solution, but it requires dismantling the system that got us into this scenario: capitalism.
  - arcbyte 9y ago
    What? Dismantling welfare maybe is the solution that "everybody" knows, but it sure as shit isnt dismantling the only economic system that hasn't turned out to be bullshit within a century of trying jt.
  - merpnderp 9y ago
    I don't know how anyone can look at China's transformation over the last 30 years and think capitalism is a problem. When China altered its policies form socialist to free market, it brought a billion people out of abject poverty in less than 20 years. The data doesn't show that there's a better solution to innate human corruption than capitalism.
  - mindcrime 9y ago
    Yes, let's discard capitalism so we can live in a socialist utopia like Venezuela.
    - RugnirViking 9y ago
      Even democratic countries that rely almost entirely on natural resources end up pretty awful at some point or other. I'm not going to comment one way or another on how reliance on natural resources does correlate with... unconventional government types and economic policies such as dictatorships and central planning or hypercapitalism
- alphonsegaston 9y ago
  I don't think anybody disagrees with that, it's just that scapegoating immigrants is a fairly explicit manipulation tactic by the wealthy to control the poor. After all, poor immigrants aren't the ones who engineered an economy of staggering inequality and wage stagnation.
- danaliv 9y ago
  Immigrants don't just "take" jobs. Their presence also creates new ones. It's not as though people come here, go to work, and then never put money into the economy.
  - chii 9y ago
    but it is true i think, that immigrants do take jobs away from the lower-skilled demographics, because they may be willing to take on a lower wage than their native counterparts. The influx of new demand due to immigrants is going to be slower to materialize as wealth to the upper-eschelons of owners, which is then slower to trickle down to more hires/jobs to meet demand. Therefore, in the immediate future, the natives are less well-off.
- LoonyBalloony 9y ago
  Perhaps because powerful people don't want to find a solution; The powerful is exactly who is represented in our flawed electoral system: http//i.imgur.com/Uc6kX8G.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GFG0sXIig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GFG0sXIig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
ralfd 9y ago
Well, as an outsider always reading about race issues, Ferguson riots, BLM, black people here vs white people there, identity politics, ethnicities only voting for one party etc it doesn't seem like immigration is so desirable.
canoebuilder 9y ago
cope with a changing population Why is it just westerners/whites who are expected to cope with a changing population? Can you imagine a scenario in which say Beijing, or Tokyo, or Jakarta, or Riyadh, or Nairobi, or Lagos, or Mumbai were filled with a foreign population that was greater than 50% of the total population for the city? Can you imagine a scenario where any country outside the western world had demographic numbers showing that foreigners outnumbering the founding population group of the country in the sub 25 age group? These scenarios are unimaginable and quite absurd even to ponder for anywhere outside of white countries. And yet, have you been to London? Have you looked at demographic charts? People can raise objections to the population displacement you seem to favor without it having anything to do with "racism, scapegoating, and a general inability to cope," or "muh jerbs." There are plenty of westerners who think, "We've got a pretty good thing going here, we've brought a lot of good to ourselves and the world as a whole. And we'd rather not see our civilization drastically altered, because a drastic altering of our civilization will impede our efforts and abilities to go on doing good for ourselves and the world."
- crooked-v 9y ago
  > that was greater than 50% of the total population for the city? So... where, exactly, is this supposed to be analogous to?
  - canoebuilder 9y ago
    have you been to London? https://www.google.com/search?q=london+demographics https://www.google.com/search?q=london+demographics
  - ng12 9y ago
    San Diego was over 90% non-Hispanic whites up until the 50's, now they represent roughly 45% of the population -- and that's excluding many of the major Hispanic enclaves south of the city proper.
  - dracht 9y ago
    In the three largest cities in the Netherlands (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague), the Dutch are a minority.
dang 9y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14436482 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14436482 and marked it off-topic.

by brm 9y ago

theparanoid 9y ago

People really are concerned about /jobs/. Most of the US is exactly zero percent richer than 20 years ago. Wages are stagnate. Nobody knows a solution.

ChristianBundy 9y ago
Many people know the solution, but it requires dismantling the system that got us into this scenario: capitalism.
- arcbyte 9y ago
  What? Dismantling welfare maybe is the solution that "everybody" knows, but it sure as shit isnt dismantling the only economic system that hasn't turned out to be bullshit within a century of trying jt.
- merpnderp 9y ago
  I don't know how anyone can look at China's transformation over the last 30 years and think capitalism is a problem. When China altered its policies form socialist to free market, it brought a billion people out of abject poverty in less than 20 years. The data doesn't show that there's a better solution to innate human corruption than capitalism.
- mindcrime 9y ago
  Yes, let's discard capitalism so we can live in a socialist utopia like Venezuela.
  - RugnirViking 9y ago
    Even democratic countries that rely almost entirely on natural resources end up pretty awful at some point or other. I'm not going to comment one way or another on how reliance on natural resources does correlate with... unconventional government types and economic policies such as dictatorships and central planning or hypercapitalism
alphonsegaston 9y ago
I don't think anybody disagrees with that, it's just that scapegoating immigrants is a fairly explicit manipulation tactic by the wealthy to control the poor. After all, poor immigrants aren't the ones who engineered an economy of staggering inequality and wage stagnation.
danaliv 9y ago
Immigrants don't just "take" jobs. Their presence also creates new ones. It's not as though people come here, go to work, and then never put money into the economy.
- chii 9y ago
  but it is true i think, that immigrants do take jobs away from the lower-skilled demographics, because they may be willing to take on a lower wage than their native counterparts. The influx of new demand due to immigrants is going to be slower to materialize as wealth to the upper-eschelons of owners, which is then slower to trickle down to more hires/jobs to meet demand. Therefore, in the immediate future, the natives are less well-off.
LoonyBalloony 9y ago
Perhaps because powerful people don't want to find a solution; The powerful is exactly who is represented in our flawed electoral system: http//i.imgur.com/Uc6kX8G.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GFG0sXIig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GFG0sXIig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

ralfd 9y ago

Well, as an outsider always reading about race issues, Ferguson riots, BLM, black people here vs white people there, identity politics, ethnicities only voting for one party etc it doesn't seem like immigration is so desirable.

canoebuilder 9y ago

cope with a changing population Why is it just westerners/whites who are expected to cope with a changing population? Can you imagine a scenario in which say Beijing, or Tokyo, or Jakarta, or Riyadh, or Nairobi, or Lagos, or Mumbai were filled with a foreign population that was greater than 50% of the total population for the city? Can you imagine a scenario where any country outside the western world had demographic numbers showing that foreigners outnumbering the founding population group of the country in the sub 25 age group? These scenarios are unimaginable and quite absurd even to ponder for anywhere outside of white countries. And yet, have you been to London? Have you looked at demographic charts? People can raise objections to the population displacement you seem to favor without it having anything to do with "racism, scapegoating, and a general inability to cope," or "muh jerbs." There are plenty of westerners who think, "We've got a pretty good thing going here, we've brought a lot of good to ourselves and the world as a whole. And we'd rather not see our civilization drastically altered, because a drastic altering of our civilization will impede our efforts and abilities to go on doing good for ourselves and the world."

crooked-v 9y ago
> that was greater than 50% of the total population for the city? So... where, exactly, is this supposed to be analogous to?
- canoebuilder 9y ago
  have you been to London? https://www.google.com/search?q=london+demographics https://www.google.com/search?q=london+demographics
- ng12 9y ago
  San Diego was over 90% non-Hispanic whites up until the 50's, now they represent roughly 45% of the population -- and that's excluding many of the major Hispanic enclaves south of the city proper.
- dracht 9y ago
  In the three largest cities in the Netherlands (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague), the Dutch are a minority.

dang 9y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14436482 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14436482 and marked it off-topic.