12 ms·

Every one of the listed features is also available in Vim. I fail to see how this is either Sublime-like besides the keybindings (since a file pane is available

Every one of the listed features is also available in Vim. I fail to see how this is either Sublime-like besides the keybindings (since a file pane is available on both Emacs and Vim) or will cause me to leave Vim or Emacs behind. That said, I can definitely see this replacing Nano for some folks.

iaml 9y ago
You can control vim with mouse? Huh, TIL.
- gatlinnewhouse 9y ago
  What plugins are these?
  - Tenobrus 9y ago
    Both Vim and Emacs have had mouse support built in for decades.
- equalunique 9y ago
  Yes. In vim: set mouse=a
- hjek 9y ago
  If you enable it in .vimrc: set mouse=a
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Parent means "control", not "select text".
    - fredoliveira 9y ago
      And that's exactly what `set mouse=a` allows. You can switch tabs, resize panes, etc.
- rayiner 9y ago
  You can even control vim with a mouse when its running on a headless machine you're accessing over ssh.
RBerenguel 9y ago
Whenever I need nano I'm on a machine where installing stuff is cumbersome, so installing npm on top of it would be overkill. Better learn to use vim (I'm personally an emacs person, but with vim keybindings) and use it when needed.
gbersac 9y ago
> copying/pasting with OS clipboard support It is supposed to be in vim, but I always forget how to use it and the few time I tried it just didn't work.
- e12e 9y ago
  "+y / "+p Is generally what you want (named buffer +). http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Accessing_the_system_clipboard http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Accessing_the_system_clipboard I used to keep forgetting too, and then I started using it a bit (on Windows, where selecting text and shift-insert doesn't work).
  - hk__2 9y ago
    In insert mode you can paste with cmd+V on macOS or ctrl+shift+v on other systems, just like anywhere else in the shell.
  - dmd 9y ago
    Or just make it the default: set clipboard=unnamedplus
    - hashhar 9y ago
      Wow, in all my 5 months on Vim usage I didn't learn about this. Gonna go :help clipboard now. Thanks.
      - dmd 9y ago
        Don't feel bad... 25 years vi usage here!
captainmuon 9y ago
I think the benefit is exactly the keybindings. And the fact that it is non-modal. It works like a text field in a desktop GUI, there is almost no state. You can't mess the state up. Contrast it to vim, where I got into the habbit of bashing ESC three times to be sure I'm not in a mode. Or emacs, which is nice until it's abstractions leak, and you accidentially start editing a configurations pane or something. I am a part time vim user, and generally like it, but sometimes I find the mental load of the key bindings too high. Anything more complex than d<End>, and I have to stop a moment and think about it. In that time, I can just hit the cursor keys (and Home, PgDn, ...) a couple of times. It's a trade-off: Do I use a bit of mental power, and save some finger movement? Then I go for the vi way. Or do I use less mental power, and delegate tasks to my fingers and eyes to do autonomically? Then I go for the sublime / notepad / VS way. I might press the arrow key a couple of times, overshoot, go back, ... it may look inefficient, but it's not slower, just a different use of resources. I've been looking for a Sublime style editor for the terminal for ages. Actually, way before sublime, I've been looking for an edit.com style editor - Nano is one thing, but I want one that respects CUI-like conventions. Shift for selecting, CTRL+C for copy, .... I will definitely check this out.
- hammerandtongs 9y ago
  Why would you leave yourself in this low practiced state? Ie you don't spend the time to become fluent, so it's always "thinking" instead of being able to just do. Incidentally you should always always leave the insert mode when you are done typing. You are never confused about state because your default is "normal mode".
  - horsawlarway 9y ago
    Because becoming fluent has a cost value trade off, and I think there are a lot of people who simply don't think time invested in that is worth it. I touch a terminal a lot, and I don't value vim enough to become fluent. I certainly know how to use it, and I know a fair bit of the commands, but it's nowhere close to my preferred workflow. Plus, there's a huge array of tools out there to allow me to work with files in the editor of my choice, even when working on remote machines. Finally, I grew up playing video games and using a computer, complete with modern input. The mouse is a first class input device, and I know how to use it effectively, quickly, and precisely to perform a wide variety of actions. I prefer an editor that treats the mouse like it's useful, rather than an add on that you can enable with extensions if desired.
amiga-workbench 9y ago
The difference is its all there out of the box without mincing with a config file or numerous extensions.
Asooka 9y ago
I had a rather long argument with someone who can't stand vim and his points were mostly salient. Vim comes with a lot of baggage (or features, depending on how you look at it) from having been designed before Windows and the assorted userland became the dominant platform. Because of that, its shortcuts aren't CUA-compliant [1]. And that is just scratching the surface. Vim and Emacs are written by people who expect them to behave like Vim and Emacs, not like Sublime or any other "standard" application with a "standard" interface and shortcuts. You can definitely fight their design and rebind your keys to work as you expect, but through it all you're fighting decades of entrenched design. Those editors aren't maintained by people who think like you, so you'll always be a second citizen. Micro isn't for people who like Vim, micro is for people who want their editor to work in the expected mainstream fashion. I think GNU nano should probably also have a commandline switch to behave like a normal CUA-compliant editor and distros should have that enabled by default. It isn't compatible with anything but pico and someone who grew up with today's machines would have never seen pico. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access
- btschaegg 9y ago
  On the other hand, I would guess it's not just the maintainers being entrenched: If you were to redefine something like C-v to perform "+p by default, you would upset every guy that has been using Vim for some time. Not only that, but you would also really ruin the day for everyone that regularly uses it through SSH and counts on Vim's default behavior. I would guess the reactions would be orders of magnitude more vile than those to, say, systemd. So, leaving such rebindings as opt-in possibilities to newcomers seems like a much more sane decision to me.

iaml 9y ago

You can control vim with mouse? Huh, TIL.

gatlinnewhouse 9y ago
What plugins are these?
- Tenobrus 9y ago
  Both Vim and Emacs have had mouse support built in for decades.
equalunique 9y ago
Yes. In vim: set mouse=a
hjek 9y ago
If you enable it in .vimrc: set mouse=a
- coldtea 9y ago
  Parent means "control", not "select text".
  - fredoliveira 9y ago
    And that's exactly what `set mouse=a` allows. You can switch tabs, resize panes, etc.
rayiner 9y ago
You can even control vim with a mouse when its running on a headless machine you're accessing over ssh.

RBerenguel 9y ago

Whenever I need nano I'm on a machine where installing stuff is cumbersome, so installing npm on top of it would be overkill. Better learn to use vim (I'm personally an emacs person, but with vim keybindings) and use it when needed.

gbersac 9y ago

> copying/pasting with OS clipboard support It is supposed to be in vim, but I always forget how to use it and the few time I tried it just didn't work.

e12e 9y ago
"+y / "+p Is generally what you want (named buffer +). http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Accessing_the_system_clipboard http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Accessing_the_system_clipboard I used to keep forgetting too, and then I started using it a bit (on Windows, where selecting text and shift-insert doesn't work).
- hk__2 9y ago
  In insert mode you can paste with cmd+V on macOS or ctrl+shift+v on other systems, just like anywhere else in the shell.
- dmd 9y ago
  Or just make it the default: set clipboard=unnamedplus
  - hashhar 9y ago
    Wow, in all my 5 months on Vim usage I didn't learn about this. Gonna go :help clipboard now. Thanks.
    - dmd 9y ago
      Don't feel bad... 25 years vi usage here!

captainmuon 9y ago

I think the benefit is exactly the keybindings. And the fact that it is non-modal. It works like a text field in a desktop GUI, there is almost no state. You can't mess the state up. Contrast it to vim, where I got into the habbit of bashing ESC three times to be sure I'm not in a mode. Or emacs, which is nice until it's abstractions leak, and you accidentially start editing a configurations pane or something. I am a part time vim user, and generally like it, but sometimes I find the mental load of the key bindings too high. Anything more complex than d<End>, and I have to stop a moment and think about it. In that time, I can just hit the cursor keys (and Home, PgDn, ...) a couple of times. It's a trade-off: Do I use a bit of mental power, and save some finger movement? Then I go for the vi way. Or do I use less mental power, and delegate tasks to my fingers and eyes to do autonomically? Then I go for the sublime / notepad / VS way. I might press the arrow key a couple of times, overshoot, go back, ... it may look inefficient, but it's not slower, just a different use of resources. I've been looking for a Sublime style editor for the terminal for ages. Actually, way before sublime, I've been looking for an edit.com style editor - Nano is one thing, but I want one that respects CUI-like conventions. Shift for selecting, CTRL+C for copy, .... I will definitely check this out.

hammerandtongs 9y ago
Why would you leave yourself in this low practiced state? Ie you don't spend the time to become fluent, so it's always "thinking" instead of being able to just do. Incidentally you should always always leave the insert mode when you are done typing. You are never confused about state because your default is "normal mode".
- horsawlarway 9y ago
  Because becoming fluent has a cost value trade off, and I think there are a lot of people who simply don't think time invested in that is worth it. I touch a terminal a lot, and I don't value vim enough to become fluent. I certainly know how to use it, and I know a fair bit of the commands, but it's nowhere close to my preferred workflow. Plus, there's a huge array of tools out there to allow me to work with files in the editor of my choice, even when working on remote machines. Finally, I grew up playing video games and using a computer, complete with modern input. The mouse is a first class input device, and I know how to use it effectively, quickly, and precisely to perform a wide variety of actions. I prefer an editor that treats the mouse like it's useful, rather than an add on that you can enable with extensions if desired.

amiga-workbench 9y ago

The difference is its all there out of the box without mincing with a config file or numerous extensions.

Asooka 9y ago

I had a rather long argument with someone who can't stand vim and his points were mostly salient. Vim comes with a lot of baggage (or features, depending on how you look at it) from having been designed before Windows and the assorted userland became the dominant platform. Because of that, its shortcuts aren't CUA-compliant [1]. And that is just scratching the surface. Vim and Emacs are written by people who expect them to behave like Vim and Emacs, not like Sublime or any other "standard" application with a "standard" interface and shortcuts. You can definitely fight their design and rebind your keys to work as you expect, but through it all you're fighting decades of entrenched design. Those editors aren't maintained by people who think like you, so you'll always be a second citizen. Micro isn't for people who like Vim, micro is for people who want their editor to work in the expected mainstream fashion. I think GNU nano should probably also have a commandline switch to behave like a normal CUA-compliant editor and distros should have that enabled by default. It isn't compatible with anything but pico and someone who grew up with today's machines would have never seen pico. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access

btschaegg 9y ago
On the other hand, I would guess it's not just the maintainers being entrenched: If you were to redefine something like C-v to perform "+p by default, you would upset every guy that has been using Vim for some time. Not only that, but you would also really ruin the day for everyone that regularly uses it through SSH and counts on Vim's default behavior. I would guess the reactions would be orders of magnitude more vile than those to, say, systemd. So, leaving such rebindings as opt-in possibilities to newcomers seems like a much more sane decision to me.