6 ms·

Can someone explain what is the purpose of Mono after .NET Core? Is the sole purpose of Mono now is to run .NET on mobile?

AlphaSite 9y ago
Unity is a big user of it as well.
- Asooka 9y ago
  AFAIK Unity is stuck on an ancient version due to licensing issues.
  - Latty 9y ago
    The just bumped to a new version in the newest betas. After Microsoft bought Xamarin those licensing issues appear to have gone, which makes sense given MS's strategy.
    - Asooka 9y ago
      That's awesome news!
  - jackmott 9y ago
    not anymore, new stuff coming now that MS owns xamarin
  - douche 9y ago
    I'm still not sure why Microsoft hasn't just bought out Unity. Unity is almost like DirectX was for the 1990s for the 2010s.
    - romanovcode 9y ago
      Microsoft had XNA. That didn't turn out too well for them.
      - douche 9y ago
        For some reason they decided to scuttle that in the Balmer/Sinofsky/Nadella shakeups. It's actually a pretty nifty API to use, and has some continuation as MonoGame. Notably, Stardew Valley is an XNA/Monogame product.
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        XNA died due to internal Microsoft politics, nothing to do with technology. Window Phone 8 redesign was a consequence of WinDev, led by Synofsky winning their usual disputes against DevTools. Nowadays they even support MonoGame on XBox and already apologized the process didn't went out as it should have been in first place. EDIT: Here they welcome MonoGame into XBox program http://news.xbox.com/2016/03/14/letter-chris-charla-idxbox-updates-gdc/ http://news.xbox.com/2016/03/14/letter-chris-charla-idxbox-u... And here Unity is listed as one of the official Windows 10 game middleware https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/games/uwp https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/games/uwp
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
- markatkinson 9y ago
  They working on a Unreal Engine implementation too. I really can't wait for that. It sounds like they in the final stages however, it has been there for a few months.
pjmlp 9y ago
Mono also runs in other commercial UNIX and mainframe OSes not yet supported by .NET Core. And does support AOT compilation to native code, while the work in CoreRT is currently on hold, until the .NET Standard 2.0 gets finished.
- ledgerdev 9y ago
  It appears work on CoreRT is still moving along, lots of recent activity, but lots of work yet to do. https://github.com/dotnet/corert/commits/master https://github.com/dotnet/corert/commits/master
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    I got that info from a .NET podcast, thanks for the heads up as I don't follow CoreRT development.
    - wulfklaue 9y ago
      It was my impression that CoreRT work was put on the back burner ( not on hold ) so the team was able to focus on Core 2.0 release. Theoretically the team can move more resources to CoreRT as Core 2.0 is now in preview. There was some talk about CoreRT and July but i forget where that news came from.
StevePerkins 9y ago
It's purpose is for people who need to do professional cross-platform .NET work, today. As opposed to tinkering with hello-world examples, and keeping an eye on what might be the big thing down the road. Mono actually works, today. It's hype is not ~5 years ahead of an actual implementation. It's not continuously waiting for one more generation of tooling to settle down, or one more standard to be decided or API to be implemented. Its "Getting Started" examples actually compile and run, consistently. There are two types of languages/frameworks... the ones that people are excited about, and the ones people currently use. Mono's purpose is to serve the latter.
- Latty 9y ago
  I think this is a little harsh on .net core - it is not as feature complete as mono yet, the point you are making is correct, but it's still usable right now, with some allowances and restrictions.
  - StevePerkins 9y ago
    Unless it's come a LONG way in just the last 6 months, I don't think I'm being too harsh. I really jumped on board the train back when Microsoft's sudden openness made them the #1 topic on HN for awhile, and C# suddenly found new life as a cool fad language. I tried out .NET Core on all three platforms, started reading C# books, and even listened to the weekly "Community Standup" video podcast to be updated on the implementation's progress. I believe certifications are a bit of joke, but I was even thinking about pursuing a MCSD so that I might shift my career more from Java to C# with my next job change. I had realistic expectations about .NET Core's implementation in the early going, as it was Beta and rapidly changing. But I grew disillusioned as it went to RC and and even RTM, and was obviously still at the alpha stage in reality. Completely changing the build toolset post-launch? Seriously? And everything is branded with a different name every time I turn around? The documentation and community was never on the same page with the current status of the implementation. I could just never get even Microsoft's own basic examples to reliably build and run. Perhaps the "Hello world" console example, but not anything beyond that. I would put it down, and every 3 to 6 month pick it back up again to see if I could get the ASP.NET Core example to run. Sometimes I could, sometimes I couldn't. And it was always one or two more API's (e.g. Entity Framework) away from being ready for real professional use. For awhile I was checking in every 3 months, and then every 6 months, and at this point I think I'm on an annual schedule. And currently I'm no longer seriously considering a career switch. I don't mean to be too harsh on the PEOPLE behind .NET Core, as they seem to be smart, good people striving to re-invent a platform and extend its lifespan by decades. But I think that some realism is sinking in now that the initial hype wave has subsided. Re-implementing even a usable subset of a platform as large as .NET was always going to take WAY longer than people were originally supposing.
systems 9y ago
you think of it this way mono is like a linux distro , .net core is like a linux kernel
- amelius 9y ago
  So mono is using .NET core, internally?
  - systems 9y ago
    currently.. no they dont ..
    - systems 9y ago
      https://thenewstack.io/the-opportunity-of-net-core-and-why-it-will-not-fade-away/ https://thenewstack.io/the-opportunity-of-net-core-and-why-i... for why i think my analogy still make sense
  - migueldeicaza 9y ago
    We are now sharing code between the two stacks. This means that we get to share bug fixes, implementations and performance improvements. It is a process, and is generally going great. The challenge is tha Mono needs to ensure the larger API surface and to avoid regressions on existing behaviors and in some cases we have different substrates that are not identical. I posted a link above with the plan that we have. But Github is a better source of information, you can see there all the shared code in the .sources files in the Mono/mcs/class directories
jackmott 9y ago
targets more platforms. don't have to figure out the insane mess that is .net core cs net framework. just do toyr regular c# or f# code and compile it wherever.
jbeja 9y ago
Mono cold start up time are faster that Roselyn. Pretty useful for command line applications.
- wornohaulus 9y ago
  Mono compiles using Reslyn now.
zamalek 9y ago
The same reason that OpenJDK exists.
migueldeicaza 9y ago
Mono is focused on supporting mobile workloads while .NET core is focused on the server side. The class library implementations are converging (1) and some other bits are shared. Historically Mono has supported the "desktop" profile style of APIs, so it continues to support that model. We rely on that model and the APIs that come with it for Visual Studio for Mac. (1) http://www.mono-project.com/news/2016/11/29/mono-code-sharing/ http://www.mono-project.com/news/2016/11/29/mono-code-sharin...
- jen20 9y ago
  This is false, Xamarin is focused on mobile. Mono has been focused on other use cases since it has existed. We successfully built Event Store on Mono and ported it to .NET and have hit surprisingly few issues. On .NET Core, our six separate attempts to port have not yet yielded anything usable.
  - whazor 9y ago
    You are trying to contradict the creator and maintainer of Mono.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

AlphaSite 9y ago

Unity is a big user of it as well.

Asooka 9y ago
AFAIK Unity is stuck on an ancient version due to licensing issues.
- Latty 9y ago
  The just bumped to a new version in the newest betas. After Microsoft bought Xamarin those licensing issues appear to have gone, which makes sense given MS's strategy.
  - Asooka 9y ago
    That's awesome news!
- jackmott 9y ago
  not anymore, new stuff coming now that MS owns xamarin
- douche 9y ago
  I'm still not sure why Microsoft hasn't just bought out Unity. Unity is almost like DirectX was for the 1990s for the 2010s.
  - romanovcode 9y ago
    Microsoft had XNA. That didn't turn out too well for them.
    - douche 9y ago
      For some reason they decided to scuttle that in the Balmer/Sinofsky/Nadella shakeups. It's actually a pretty nifty API to use, and has some continuation as MonoGame. Notably, Stardew Valley is an XNA/Monogame product.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      XNA died due to internal Microsoft politics, nothing to do with technology. Window Phone 8 redesign was a consequence of WinDev, led by Synofsky winning their usual disputes against DevTools. Nowadays they even support MonoGame on XBox and already apologized the process didn't went out as it should have been in first place. EDIT: Here they welcome MonoGame into XBox program http://news.xbox.com/2016/03/14/letter-chris-charla-idxbox-updates-gdc/ http://news.xbox.com/2016/03/14/letter-chris-charla-idxbox-u... And here Unity is listed as one of the official Windows 10 game middleware https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/games/uwp https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/games/uwp
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
markatkinson 9y ago
They working on a Unreal Engine implementation too. I really can't wait for that. It sounds like they in the final stages however, it has been there for a few months.

pjmlp 9y ago

Mono also runs in other commercial UNIX and mainframe OSes not yet supported by .NET Core. And does support AOT compilation to native code, while the work in CoreRT is currently on hold, until the .NET Standard 2.0 gets finished.

ledgerdev 9y ago
It appears work on CoreRT is still moving along, lots of recent activity, but lots of work yet to do. https://github.com/dotnet/corert/commits/master https://github.com/dotnet/corert/commits/master
- pjmlp 9y ago
  I got that info from a .NET podcast, thanks for the heads up as I don't follow CoreRT development.
  - wulfklaue 9y ago
    It was my impression that CoreRT work was put on the back burner ( not on hold ) so the team was able to focus on Core 2.0 release. Theoretically the team can move more resources to CoreRT as Core 2.0 is now in preview. There was some talk about CoreRT and July but i forget where that news came from.

StevePerkins 9y ago

It's purpose is for people who need to do professional cross-platform .NET work, today. As opposed to tinkering with hello-world examples, and keeping an eye on what might be the big thing down the road. Mono actually works, today. It's hype is not ~5 years ahead of an actual implementation. It's not continuously waiting for one more generation of tooling to settle down, or one more standard to be decided or API to be implemented. Its "Getting Started" examples actually compile and run, consistently. There are two types of languages/frameworks... the ones that people are excited about, and the ones people currently use. Mono's purpose is to serve the latter.

Latty 9y ago
I think this is a little harsh on .net core - it is not as feature complete as mono yet, the point you are making is correct, but it's still usable right now, with some allowances and restrictions.
- StevePerkins 9y ago
  Unless it's come a LONG way in just the last 6 months, I don't think I'm being too harsh. I really jumped on board the train back when Microsoft's sudden openness made them the #1 topic on HN for awhile, and C# suddenly found new life as a cool fad language. I tried out .NET Core on all three platforms, started reading C# books, and even listened to the weekly "Community Standup" video podcast to be updated on the implementation's progress. I believe certifications are a bit of joke, but I was even thinking about pursuing a MCSD so that I might shift my career more from Java to C# with my next job change. I had realistic expectations about .NET Core's implementation in the early going, as it was Beta and rapidly changing. But I grew disillusioned as it went to RC and and even RTM, and was obviously still at the alpha stage in reality. Completely changing the build toolset post-launch? Seriously? And everything is branded with a different name every time I turn around? The documentation and community was never on the same page with the current status of the implementation. I could just never get even Microsoft's own basic examples to reliably build and run. Perhaps the "Hello world" console example, but not anything beyond that. I would put it down, and every 3 to 6 month pick it back up again to see if I could get the ASP.NET Core example to run. Sometimes I could, sometimes I couldn't. And it was always one or two more API's (e.g. Entity Framework) away from being ready for real professional use. For awhile I was checking in every 3 months, and then every 6 months, and at this point I think I'm on an annual schedule. And currently I'm no longer seriously considering a career switch. I don't mean to be too harsh on the PEOPLE behind .NET Core, as they seem to be smart, good people striving to re-invent a platform and extend its lifespan by decades. But I think that some realism is sinking in now that the initial hype wave has subsided. Re-implementing even a usable subset of a platform as large as .NET was always going to take WAY longer than people were originally supposing.

systems 9y ago

you think of it this way mono is like a linux distro , .net core is like a linux kernel

amelius 9y ago
So mono is using .NET core, internally?
- systems 9y ago
  currently.. no they dont ..
  - systems 9y ago
    https://thenewstack.io/the-opportunity-of-net-core-and-why-it-will-not-fade-away/ https://thenewstack.io/the-opportunity-of-net-core-and-why-i... for why i think my analogy still make sense
- migueldeicaza 9y ago
  We are now sharing code between the two stacks. This means that we get to share bug fixes, implementations and performance improvements. It is a process, and is generally going great. The challenge is tha Mono needs to ensure the larger API surface and to avoid regressions on existing behaviors and in some cases we have different substrates that are not identical. I posted a link above with the plan that we have. But Github is a better source of information, you can see there all the shared code in the .sources files in the Mono/mcs/class directories

jackmott 9y ago

targets more platforms. don't have to figure out the insane mess that is .net core cs net framework. just do toyr regular c# or f# code and compile it wherever.

jbeja 9y ago

Mono cold start up time are faster that Roselyn. Pretty useful for command line applications.

wornohaulus 9y ago
Mono compiles using Reslyn now.

zamalek 9y ago

The same reason that OpenJDK exists.

migueldeicaza 9y ago

Mono is focused on supporting mobile workloads while .NET core is focused on the server side. The class library implementations are converging (1) and some other bits are shared. Historically Mono has supported the "desktop" profile style of APIs, so it continues to support that model. We rely on that model and the APIs that come with it for Visual Studio for Mac. (1) http://www.mono-project.com/news/2016/11/29/mono-code-sharing/ http://www.mono-project.com/news/2016/11/29/mono-code-sharin...

jen20 9y ago
This is false, Xamarin is focused on mobile. Mono has been focused on other use cases since it has existed. We successfully built Event Store on Mono and ported it to .NET and have hit surprisingly few issues. On .NET Core, our six separate attempts to port have not yet yielded anything usable.
- whazor 9y ago
  You are trying to contradict the creator and maintainer of Mono.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]