16 ms·

Chelsea Manning released from prison

629 points by nerdy 9y ago

pavel_lishin 9y ago
I hope she's alright after this; there might be people literally gunning for her, even if she wasn't trans.
- fsloth 9y ago
  I don't think political murders targeting individuals are that common in the US. Or am I completely wrong?
  - jfabre 9y ago
    Even though it's not proved, Seth Rich comes to mind. (edit removed the yet in "proved yet")
    - myaccountzz 9y ago
      I mean it's pretty obvious that it was a political murder at this point. Of course liberal HN will down-vote you even if there was video evidence.
      - ceejayoz 9y ago
        Uh huh. http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/16/media/seth-rich-family-response-claims-of-wikileaks-contact/ http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/16/media/seth-rich-family-respo...
        jfabre 9y ago
        All right, is wikileaks also doing that for political reasons? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/10/wikileaks-offers-20000-reward-over-murder-of-democrat-staffer-se/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/10/wikileaks-offers-.... And we're supposed to trust that the family actually knows what really happened?
        ceejayoz 9y ago
        > All right, is wikileaks also doing that for political reasons? Quite possibly. After all, they're against leaks when they're aimed at Trump: https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/817322050297745408 https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/817322050297745408 > And we're supposed to trust that the family actually knows what really happened? The supposed bombshell yesterday fell apart, as conspiracy theories tend to do.
        jfabre 9y ago
        Thanks for taking the time to reply to me and not just down-voting. I'm actually learning what your point of view on the story is.
        _jal 9y ago
        Oh my god, that tweet. Assange has no more self-awareness than he did in the 90s, when we were on a mailing list together. Or than a turnip, for that matter.
        LyndsySimon 9y ago
        It's worth noting that Brad Bauman, who is acting as spokesperson for the Rich family, is a PR expert with a long history with the DNC and supporting Progressive causes. If he's being paid by someone closely affiliated with the Democratic Party - and I don't know that he is, I'm building an air castle here - then distancing the Rich family from WikiLeaks would be in his best interest. This seems likely to me, as per the CNN article you linked: > Wheeler was put in touch with the Rich family through Dallas businessman Ed Butowsky, who told CNN he had offered to pay any bills associated with the investigation. > "You have a family who can't afford a PI. Their son was killed. So I offered to help out," Butowsky said. If they truly couldn't afford a PI, then I doubt they could afford a top-tier PR professional to speak on their behalf.
        hackunomatter 9y ago
        You can keep finding tenuous connections, but in the end, there's no proof. It's all speculation, with assumptions, biased interpretations, etc. When you don't want to accept the obvious, it's easy to just keep scratching away until you think you find something (look up pareidolia).
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - keehun 9y ago
        It's really NOT obvious. Check the trail of Fox News' "evidence" falling apart at the seams: http://digg.com/2017/who-is-seth-rich-dnc-murder-wikileaks http://digg.com/2017/who-is-seth-rich-dnc-murder-wikileaks
  - coldtea 9y ago
    How would one know? Because of the media, power balances, legalities etc of US life, they obviously wouldn't be doing them in an open Third World/Banana Republic style (where, depending on the country/political climate, the state doesn't hesitate much to semi-openly get rid of enemies and more or less everybody knows they did it).
    - tome 9y ago
      There's not much point committing political murder unless people know about it.
      - coldtea 9y ago
        There is if you want to stop people from messing with things, exposing things you don't want the public to know, etc.
    - pvg 9y ago
      How would one know? Because people who would be targets of political murders don't die at a statistically unusual rate. Unless you think they are also being secretly replaced with more pliant clones/cyborgs or we are all just copied over to a less unruly simulation. Then it would be harder to know.
      - coldtea 9y ago
        >Because people who would be targets of political murders don't die at a statistically unusual rate. They don't have to be well known people that you would identify as targets. In fact those would be the worst to target. They could be potential whistleblowers you never learned of, for example. That said, sticking to well known people that could be targets, there's a large variety of those to e.g. MLK Jr, Malcom X, JFK, Robert Kennedy -- to name but a few in a single decade's span.
        pvg 9y ago
        These are political assassinations but they are assassinations by crazies. If you think these are government plots or that the man is secretly sending ninjas to rub out potential whistleblowers, you have to come up with some evidence otherwise it's just conspiracy theorizing. We might as well talk of alien abductions.
  - MK999 9y ago
    Depends on how you interpret conspiracy theories.
  - kingkawn 9y ago
    It is true, we are experts at effecting the social death so that the continued existence of the body is only a lingering triviality.
  - lurker456 9y ago
    Michael Hastings and Kenneth Lay come to mind. No proof obviously.
    - tc313 9y ago
      Ken Lay's death was a life insurance scam.
  - tc313 9y ago
    Especially not AFTER they've done all the damage they can do! What's the point of killing her now?
- beaconstudios 9y ago
  I think the "having been a whistleblower in the most powerful government on the planet" part of Chelsea's story is considerably more risky than the "is transgendered" part. There aren't many people running around "gunning for" trans people in the same sense that there are people "gunning for" informants. Primarily in the sense that in the latter case they use actual guns.
  - lawless123 9y ago
    Id say there is some overlap between the two groups..
    - datatan 9y ago
      And you would be wrong.
      - Posibyte 9y ago
        Can you elaborate on that, datatan? I'm not saying lawless is necessarily correct, but from the confidence of your statement, it sounds like you have data to show otherwise. Would you mind sharing that? I feel it would make a good talking point in this thread.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Trans people are safe in very few places in the world.
    - cmdrfred 9y ago
      No place is safe considering the majority violent cause of death among trans people is suicide.
      - aoeusnth1 9y ago
        I wonder why that is... Maybe the social isolation and pervasive hatred and mocking attitude of society has something to do with it?
- Torwald 9y ago
  > even if she wasn't trans Who is gunning trans (just because they are trans)?
  - ceejayoz 9y ago
    Probably most notable case is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Teena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Teena (the story was made into the movie Boys Don't Cry). You can find quite a few more on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_transgender_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_tran....
    - ng12 9y ago
      It's the second part of his question that's the important one -- lots of people are murdered for lots of different reasons. There are estimated to be over a million trans people in the USA, do they have a disproportionately high rate of murder?
      - ceejayoz 9y ago
        I can't find conclusive numbers on murders specifically. http://time.com/3999348/transgender-murders-2015/ http://time.com/3999348/transgender-murders-2015/ says: > Though a federal hate crimes law requires the collection of some statistics related to violence against transgender people, experts are dubious about the numbers they're getting. “A lot of jurisdictions report zeroes, even in places where we know there are hate crimes," Keisling says. Most state laws don't require the collection of such statistics, according to Minter. Given the high incidence of sexual violence against transgender persons (https://www.ovc.gov/pubs/forge/sexual_numbers.html https://www.ovc.gov/pubs/forge/sexual_numbers.html) it certainly seems likely the murder rate is similarly high. There's a "one-in-twelve" stat that appears to have gone around, but it's not true: http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/may/13/garnet-coleman/garnet-coleman-said-transgender-person-has-1-12-ch/ http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/may/13/garne...
rosalinekarr 9y ago
This is long overdue. Chelsea will probably be doing interviews soon, and since [she's already been pretty outspoken about internet freedoms][1], she may even bring some much needed attention to issues like net neutrality, government surveillance and the never ending erosion of our online rights. Let's hope the media doesn't tear her apart. [1]: https://twitter.com/xychelsea/status/847264510247190532 https://twitter.com/xychelsea/status/847264510247190532
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago
  Unfortunately, many of the people that need convincing with regards to net neutrality and online rights also view her as a traitor with mental problems and thus "normal, patriotic Americans" should not worry about these things, except to prevent "liberals" from creating more "regulations" for companies and putting up barriers to keep our law enforcement from finding the "terrorists'" plans.
  - dmix 9y ago
    Effecting change still takes time and effort. That requires people putting the time in, regardless if they themselves aren't a persuasive spokesperson with a mainstream audience. There's much work to be done to push the ideas out to a wider audience. For one thing she is certainly more credible not being in prison.
  - TheGirondin 9y ago
    This comment is so loaded with strawmen and vitriol I don't think it meets our communities comment guidelines.
    - falcolas 9y ago
      Yes, but it's still true, as my own conversations with conservative in-laws shows.
      - SteveGerencser 9y ago
ceejayoz 9y ago
Sort of. She's on unpaid active duty with the Army still while her appeals wind through the legal system, and thus subject to the UCMJ. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/05/14/chelsea-manning-wikileaks-transgender-soldier-donald-trump/101594390/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/05/14/chel...
- le-mark 9y ago
  This is what I was going to remark on and maybe someone can clarify, but I don't believe the Army has any such thing as "unpaid active duty". The military doesn't just make up stuff like that. If you're on active duty, you're getting a check and accrueing time in service. Seems like sloppy reporting. Also considering: > After the 2013 sentencing, the ex-intelligence agent changed her name to Chelsea Manning and identified as transgender. Enlisted MI are hardly 'intelligence agents'.
  - rascul 9y ago
    There certainly are methods of punishment the Army uses which includes taking one's pay while they are on active duty. It's not clear to me though how it's done in Manning's case. Edit: NBC reports it as voluntary excess leave. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/chelsea-manning-set-be-released-prison-still-not-free-n759676 http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/chelsea-manning-set-be-r...
  - ganoushoreilly 9y ago
    That's not entirely true, there are plenty of CI positions with the enlisted ranks within all branches of service. Many of the enlisted service members are also billeted within other government agencies (NSA, CIA, etc) where there titles are considered "Agent" roles. This would also include job roles with the "operator" designation, which are not solely SOF based.
logicallee 9y ago
[withdrawn]
- loeg 9y ago
  It's totally relevant. Trans people experience attacks at a much higher rate than the background population.
  - beaconstudios 9y ago
    it's on a different scale of threat though. It seems like a weird inclusion - the idea that being trans considerably increases the risk profile of someone who was an informant on the US military complex.
    - callinyouin 9y ago
      Think of it this way: I've perused enough local news comment sections to know that people who are inclined to find Chelsea Manning to be a traitor are also generally more inclined to hate trans people. So, maybe this doesn't increase the risk of her being targeted by trained assassins or government spies, but it does probably increase her risk of being targeted for a hate crime.
      - iamatworknow 9y ago
        >local news comment sections Not exactly a diverse sample of the population.
        dTal 9y ago
        It's a bit much to expect science-journal standards of rigour in a Hacker News comment. Do you disagree with "people who are inclined to find Chelsea Manning to be a traitor are also generally more inclined to hate trans people"? It seems, at the very least, plausible.
    - dTal 9y ago
lloydjatkinson 9y ago
*he
- StavrosK 9y ago
  *she
  - lloydjatkinson 9y ago
    Chromosomes don't lie.
- sctb 9y ago
  We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14358223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14358223 and marked it off-topic.
  - lloydjatkinson 9y ago
    Of course, because having an opinion that isn't internet SJW hivemind is illegal.
    - andai 9y ago
      what did you write
      - lloydjatkinson 9y ago
        I corrected someone that described someone with male chromosones as "she"
        creepydata 9y ago
        So you walk around "correcting" people who call these women https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome#/media/File:Orchids01.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrom... "she?" You must be fun at parties.
Unbeliever69 9y ago
Hopefully, she doesn't disappear, but uses her popularity to stand up and fight for what she believes.
- fixermark 9y ago
  It's honestly up to her. One could easily argue that in the cause of freedom, she's already (literally) done her time; someone else's turn to step up.
- rmc 9y ago
  She's been in prison for ~7 years, and I'll bet it was a pretty strict prison. I'm prepared to let her recovery and heal first. She is under no obligation to be under the spotlight from tomorrow.
- hackunomatter 9y ago
  She's still in the Army. Her ability to talk freely is very limited right now. Only when she's discharged will she be able to talk.
adamnemecek 9y ago
"During one of his final acts in office, President Barack Obama commuted Manning's sentence in January, thereby giving her an early release date." For anyone else wondering where this is coming from.
- grandalf 9y ago
  While I'm very pleased that President Obama commuted the sentence of Ms. Manning, I'm also disappointed that he did not do more to change the policy about classifying information that allows classification to be used as a form of propaganda (by classifying the stuff that contradicts the message we're meant to believe about a war).
  - lojack 9y ago
    Don't mean to be a pendant, but he didn't pardon her. Officially her punishment was commuted. The former forgives the crime and the latter simply reduces the penalty for the crime.
    - grandalf 9y ago
      Appreciate the correction. I knew the correct status but was multitasking and got sloppy. Corrected my comment.
    - smnscu 9y ago
      Don't mean to be pedantic, but the word is pedant (a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning), not pendant (a piece of jewellery that hangs from a chain worn round the neck).
      - lucideer 9y ago
        The mispelling may have been intended as an ironic joke.
        9y ago
datatan 9y ago
Extremely rare and almost exclusive leftists killing people on the right. Like the JFK assassination (JFK was a conservative)
- CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
  > Extremely rare and almost exclusive leftists killing people on the right. Interesting claim. I'm not sure many people on the left killed doctors for performing abortions, for example. That was mostly "pro life" conservatives, from what I recall. Why are we even talking about this? Partisan politics isn't relevant. Chelsea Manning is free. This is cause for celebration.
  - 404_not_found 9y ago
    > Why are we even talking about this? Partisan politics isn't relevant. He said, /after/ conveniently inserting partisan opinion and contradicting himself.
    - CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
      It wasn't a contradiction. I said "we" in my question.
    - snakeboy 9y ago
      He was rebutting the claim of the previous commenter that these political murders are carried out exclusively by "leftists".
  - TheGirondin 9y ago
    I am genuinely curious why you think it is cause for celebration that bratty solider who made a massive blind data dump of classified information to sabotage the US military had their punishment drastically reduced.
    - CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
      I'm not interesting in explaining myself to nationalists. I will, however, say that 7 years of prison can be devastating for anyone but 35 years can totally ruin their life with virtually no chance of recovery. Most people have support systems, but will they still be intact after nearly half the average life span? Regardless of your opinion of what Manning did, the fact that she is no longer in prison means that at least one more person has a chance at life. Isn't that worth celebrating?
panzer_wyrm 9y ago
While not rotting in prison is great - isn't it strange that Manning was pardoned, while there are a lot more pardon deserving persons among the other whistleblowers of the era. Nothing good or interesting came from those leaks. And they were legitimate threat to US security. And Snowden ones were responsible, curated and only in the areas where rights of US citizens were infringed. And yet he is stranded in Russia (1/6 of the world, so not bad). What is the lesson - if you leak, leak more severe?
- masklinn 9y ago
  > While not rotting in prison is great - isn't it strange that Manning was pardoned Manning was not pardoned, her sentence was commuted. She is still considered guilty on all grounds on which she was convicted. > And Snowden ones were responsible, curated and only in the areas where rights of US citizens were infringed. > And yet he is stranded in Russia (1/6 of the world, so not bad). > What is the lesson - if you leak, leak more severe? Snowden has not been sitting a in a US prison for years (in pretty difficult conditions) after a sentencing which many found excessive and unfair. So the lesson is rather more "get sentenced to rank reduction to E-1, forfeiting of pay and allowances, dishonorably discharged and 35 years in prison and you may see the last part reduced to only ~6 years afterwards". Oh don't forget the 6 years include a significant duration as POI at Quantico: * checks by guards every five minutes * not allowed to sleep between 5 am (7 am on weekends) and 8 pm * required to remain visible at all times, no sheets, pillow built into mattress, and blanket designed for unshreddability * sleeping attire limited to boxer shorts * 6 × 12 ft (1.8 x 3.6 m) with no window, containing a bed, toilet and sink * allowed to walk for up to one hour a day, meals in the cell, shackled during lawyer visits Not to disparage Snowden, and his reasons for not coming back seem sound, but political asylum in Russia isn't exactly Manning's last 6 years.
  - asdfGUYasdfn 9y ago
    You know, the conditions of these two should have been an environments similar to those in GITMO. I have no sympathy for these people.
  - VLM 9y ago
ordbajsare 9y ago
To bad they forced an sex change on HIM!
interfixus 9y ago
This person is male. Could we please avoid the biologically nonsensical charade of referring to him as"she"?
- CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
  In a word: No.
  - interfixus 9y ago
    Then could the downvoters please explain to me how this male is supposed to be female?
    - coldtea 9y ago
      By the power of will.
    - CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
      Simple: A person's gender is a part of their personal identity. Chelsea Manning says that their gender is female, even if their biological sex is male. As a consequence of respect for their personal identity as a member of society (and NOT fixating on their sex organs, which is frankly creepy), most people will refer to a trans* person as the gender they identify as, not the sex they were born with. Or, if uncertain (because of genderfluidity and new pronouns like Xe/Xir/whatever), just using "singular they" and moving on with your life. It's a polite society thing.
      - myaccountzz 9y ago
        > Simple: A person's gender is a part of their personal identity. That's an opinion.
        CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
        That's actually a fact. Gender is defined as: the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones). For most people, your gender and your sex are congruent. For others, it isn't. Even if you don't agree: Why do you care?
raverbashing 9y ago
Now the question is: will Assange follow up with his promise?
- strictnein 9y ago
  Of course not.
  - zeroer 9y ago
    It was dumb of Assange to make the offer.
- r3bl 9y ago
  For those wondering, WikiLeaks claimed[0] that they'll agree to Assange being extradited to the US if Obama grants clemency to Manning, but later on Assange's lawyers said[1] that this was only applicable if Manning gets released immediately, and that the deal Obama gave was still not enough for Assange to agree to be extradited. [0] https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/819630102787059713 https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/819630102787059713 [1] http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/314783-assange-lawyer-conditions-not-met-for-assange-manning-extradition-offer http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/314783-assange-lawye...
  - dclowd9901 9y ago
    Clemency would mean that she was pardoned, yes? But she was merely released early on a commuted sentence.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - teraflop 9y ago
      Pardoning and commutation are both forms of clemency.
    - uiri 9y ago
      Clemency covers both pardons and commutations of sentences.
jfabre 9y ago
It's so stupid that you can downvote someone when you disagree with him/her on HN. Totally makes the whole website an echo chamber.
- debaserab2 9y ago
  I think people are getting a little tired of the Seth Rich conspiracy claims with nothing but circumstantial evidence. It's becoming some kind of rallying cry for trump supporters (who still can't seem to drop the hillary conspiracies for some reason) and what's especially annoying about it is people seem to be taking it as de facto truth despite no real evidence to back up the claim. So I don't think this as much about HN being an echo chamber. You're really not adding to the discussion other than propagating the conspiracy unless you're going to provide some evidence. Conspiracy theories don't really fly on HN.
  - jfabre 9y ago
    I agree with you, but I could say the exact same thing on the "Russia hacked the election" conspiracy. And yet, if you do a search on HN, people who get down-voted and flagged are those who don't support the theory.
    - _jal 9y ago
      Let's see: one is a transparently ginned-up story in the mold of the Vince Foster nonsense. The other has and is playing out partly in public, with the man at the center of the controversy going out of his way to confirm some of the suspicions. I'm certainly not going to claim that HN doesn't have collective biases. But thankfully, one of those is a bias towards looking at reality. Certainly not a perfect one, but in general facts work a lot better here than hot air does.
- sctb 9y ago
  We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14358599 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14358599 and marked it off-topic.
btbuildem 9y ago
> She was released from United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth in Kansas around 3 a.m. 3am?! A parting kick to the head, or a ploy to avoid publicity?
- skrause 9y ago
  If you were to be released on the 17th, would you rather go at 3 am or 10 pm? I would like to go as early as possible. 3 am is not as good as immediately at midnight, but I wouldn't consider it a kick to the head.
- xutopia 9y ago
  To avoid it happening when the other inmates are awake maybe?
hectorr 9y ago
I have very mixed feelings about what Manning did. I also respect the moral courage it took to do them, and to face the consequences.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Aloha 9y ago
  I think she served a more than adequate punishment for her crime (if anything, she should have only had serve something less than 5 years).. and I wish her all the happiness that life has to offer.
  - mjgoins 9y ago
    Her punishment was illegal under the 8th amendment, and her "crime" was protected whistleblowing.
    - Aloha 9y ago
      I don't think putting someone in extended solitary confinement is reasonable in almost any circumstance (and very not reasonable in this case). But I don't think what she did is protected whistleblowing (she basically aired the 'sausage making' of US foreign and military policy, not highlighted a specific violation of US law) - on the other hand, I think the length of the sentence ought to be proportional to the gravity of the crime.. 35 years is overkill by an order of magnitude, she should have gotten 1-5 years.. with 2 being an ideal.
pfarnsworth 9y ago
As far as I'm concerned this is the first thing that Obama did that was a real progressive act. Thank God he did this. If only he did the same for Snowden.
- fixermark 9y ago
  It's unlikely Snowden will ever get a pardon. Functional governments have a vested interest in not forgiving blatant disregard for their laws, regardless of the morality of the acts that led to the disregard. It's possible (but probably unlikely) that he could have been pardoned, found innocent, or had a sentence commuted had he turned himself in, but escaping the reach of American justice? There's very little incentive for a country to reward "Break the law then run from our jurisdiction," independent of the details. Snowden's successfully attained a life probably free of American legal influence. His reward is a life free of American legal influence.
  - pfarnsworth 9y ago
    I agree. And I doubt his fate is going to get any better in the future, unfortunately.
    - fixermark 9y ago
      His fate is pretty good as-is, right? I hear Russia is a beautiful country.
      - pfarnsworth 9y ago
        I wouldn't characterize it as pretty good. He's living day to day, and at any point Russia could change their minds. Snowden basically sacrificed his life and freedom for the rest of us.
  - CaptSpify 9y ago
    > Functional governments have a vested interest in not forgiving blatant disregard for their laws Unless you are high enough on the food-chain
lerie 9y ago
gross.
- jonathantm 9y ago
  ironic.
asdfGUYasdfn 9y ago
I'm not sure why people feel so sympathetic to the stealing of classified material and giving them effectively to foreign intelligence services is still a socially acceptable practice. Bradley Edward Manning should have found himself at the end of a noose, as much as Edward Snowden should have. Liberal or not, if you look outside of these borders of the United States ... they both provided material to everyone from ISIS to Iran to China to Russia to every terrorist with half a brain to leverage against our sovereignty. I don't want to pull a 9/11 reference here - but if it's OK to kill 3,000+ people by proxy .. then be my guest and idolize people like this. However, myself ... I will call it what it is - treason.
matt_s 9y ago
Why is this on Hacker news?
- aparadja 9y ago
  Hacker News isn't exclusively about startups and software.
  - matt_s 9y ago
    Oh my mistake. Maybe it should be renamed to "News, commented on by hackers"
    - CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
      That's a great idea, but it's kind of wordy. Maybe something short and pithy like "Hacker News" would work?
  - Cakez0r 9y ago
    No, but the guidelines do say that political news stories are generally considered off topic and I'm not sure there's any interesting discussion to be had or new insight to be gained from this article. It just seems to have invited mostly vitriolic, off-topic debate.
- jes5199 9y ago
  Hacker
  - abraves10001 9y ago
    Also, news.
- jonathantm 9y ago
  Why are you on Hacker news?
  - matt_s 9y ago
wand3r 9y ago
I signed the petition. I am cynical and really don't take much civic action; but this helped. This taught me to be less cynical; she taught me to be more courageous. Thank you Chelsea, welcome home
throwawy321342 9y ago
This is great news. Frankly I was hoping the fact that a significant part of "alt.right" gang were behind Trump would mean the end of witch-hunts for Manning, Snowden and Assange (and no more random wars). Alas; Trump has turned out to be the pompous idiot which many of us feared; the "alt.right" turned into a paper tiger pushing xenophobic attitudes with little expected in terms of accountability from USG. I have to give credit to people on the alt-side for warning people about Trump; his connections, lack of ethics, and what his term would beget.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
vivekd 9y ago
I disagree with what she did, she probably made the world a much less safe place and caused thousands if not millions of deaths through wikileaks role in inciting the Arab spring. Still I'm convinced she did it with the best of intentions and the genuine belief that she would make the world more peaceful and open. I guess she was naive so I'm glad to see her released early.
- skrebbel 9y ago
  This is the attitude that keeps dictators re-elected. Vote for stability!
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- cestith 9y ago
  One might assume that if what she leaked upset people to the point of revolution that there was something they had a right to be upset about.
  - vivekd 9y ago
    This works all that well from an idealistic perspective but when the result is having these nations over-run by terrorists like ISIS and oppressive theocratic regimes, I question the benefit of these revolutions. The world is more complex than simple "it's bad, let's revolt." There are better ways to bring about change than inciting violent revolutions.
    - cestith 9y ago
      Chelsea didn't incite the revolutions. She only released the information. The information that was previously hidden was found to be egregious enough for others to incite the violence. That's enough reason for me to believe she was right that people had the right to know. Yeah, I'd have preferred the Arab Spring to be resolved more peaceably myself. It's not under Chelsea's control nor mine how that played out after the information was released. It's difficult to blame the person who released true information for the impact of the information. The content and the creators or subjects of the content are to blame for the revolutions. Chelsea just let the rebels and revolutionaries know what they had every right to know.
artorias 9y ago
Meanwhile, while the masses are distracted, Oscar Rivera is also released from house arrest today (and was released from US prisons on 2/9/2017). Who is Oscar Rivera you ask? >Oscar López Rivera (born January 6, 1943) is a Puerto Rican independence activist[1] who was one of the leaders of the FALN. What was FALN you ask? >The Fuerzas Armadas de Liberación Nacional (English: Armed Forces of National Liberation, FALN) was a Puerto Rican clandestine paramilitary organization that, through direct action, advocated complete independence for Puerto Rico. At the time of its dissolution, the FALN was responsible for more than 120 bomb attacks on United States targets between 1974 and 1983 that killed 5 people and injured several others Thanks Obama, for freeing people responsible for killing Americans via actual terrorism. Oh, and the Clintons? Yeah, they started this by commuting the sentences of 16 FALN members simply to help Hillary get votes. And the best part? It wasn't the members of FALN asking for clemency, but rather the white house pushing it- for votes. And it worked. http://archive.is/Al6jz http://archive.is/Al6jz >Hillary Rodham Clinton was in the midst of her state-wide "listening tour" in anticipation of her run for the U.S. Senate in New York, a state which included 1.3 million Hispanics. Three members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus -- Luis V. Gutierrez (D., Ill.), Jose E. Serrano, (D., N.Y.) and Nydia M. Velazquez, (D., N.Y.) -- along with local Hispanic politicians and leftist human-rights advocates, had been agitating for years on behalf of the FALN cases directly to the White House and first lady. This is nothing more than a clever smoke screen by Obama to get you people to ignore the fact that him and the Clintons have dedicated themselves to freeing terrorists. LET THE DOWNVOTES BEGIN, HN That's right, flag my posts because you dislike the truth. Keep it up, prove my point.
justforFranz 9y ago
Right-wing nutjob stalks and kills Manning (for Jesus) in 3..2..1.... (P.S. this is NOT an endorsement.)
pmarreck 9y ago
Good.

629 points by nerdy 9y ago

pavel_lishin 9y ago

I hope she's alright after this; there might be people literally gunning for her, even if she wasn't trans.

fsloth 9y ago
I don't think political murders targeting individuals are that common in the US. Or am I completely wrong?
- jfabre 9y ago
  Even though it's not proved, Seth Rich comes to mind. (edit removed the yet in "proved yet")
  - myaccountzz 9y ago
    I mean it's pretty obvious that it was a political murder at this point. Of course liberal HN will down-vote you even if there was video evidence.
    - ceejayoz 9y ago
      Uh huh. http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/16/media/seth-rich-family-response-claims-of-wikileaks-contact/ http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/16/media/seth-rich-family-respo...
      - jfabre 9y ago
        All right, is wikileaks also doing that for political reasons? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/10/wikileaks-offers-20000-reward-over-murder-of-democrat-staffer-se/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/10/wikileaks-offers-.... And we're supposed to trust that the family actually knows what really happened?
        ceejayoz 9y ago
        > All right, is wikileaks also doing that for political reasons? Quite possibly. After all, they're against leaks when they're aimed at Trump: https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/817322050297745408 https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/817322050297745408 > And we're supposed to trust that the family actually knows what really happened? The supposed bombshell yesterday fell apart, as conspiracy theories tend to do.
        jfabre 9y ago
        Thanks for taking the time to reply to me and not just down-voting. I'm actually learning what your point of view on the story is.
        _jal 9y ago
        Oh my god, that tweet. Assange has no more self-awareness than he did in the 90s, when we were on a mailing list together. Or than a turnip, for that matter.
      - LyndsySimon 9y ago
        It's worth noting that Brad Bauman, who is acting as spokesperson for the Rich family, is a PR expert with a long history with the DNC and supporting Progressive causes. If he's being paid by someone closely affiliated with the Democratic Party - and I don't know that he is, I'm building an air castle here - then distancing the Rich family from WikiLeaks would be in his best interest. This seems likely to me, as per the CNN article you linked: > Wheeler was put in touch with the Rich family through Dallas businessman Ed Butowsky, who told CNN he had offered to pay any bills associated with the investigation. > "You have a family who can't afford a PI. Their son was killed. So I offered to help out," Butowsky said. If they truly couldn't afford a PI, then I doubt they could afford a top-tier PR professional to speak on their behalf.
        hackunomatter 9y ago
        You can keep finding tenuous connections, but in the end, there's no proof. It's all speculation, with assumptions, biased interpretations, etc. When you don't want to accept the obvious, it's easy to just keep scratching away until you think you find something (look up pareidolia).
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - keehun 9y ago
      It's really NOT obvious. Check the trail of Fox News' "evidence" falling apart at the seams: http://digg.com/2017/who-is-seth-rich-dnc-murder-wikileaks http://digg.com/2017/who-is-seth-rich-dnc-murder-wikileaks
- coldtea 9y ago
  How would one know? Because of the media, power balances, legalities etc of US life, they obviously wouldn't be doing them in an open Third World/Banana Republic style (where, depending on the country/political climate, the state doesn't hesitate much to semi-openly get rid of enemies and more or less everybody knows they did it).
  - tome 9y ago
    There's not much point committing political murder unless people know about it.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      There is if you want to stop people from messing with things, exposing things you don't want the public to know, etc.
  - pvg 9y ago
    How would one know? Because people who would be targets of political murders don't die at a statistically unusual rate. Unless you think they are also being secretly replaced with more pliant clones/cyborgs or we are all just copied over to a less unruly simulation. Then it would be harder to know.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >Because people who would be targets of political murders don't die at a statistically unusual rate. They don't have to be well known people that you would identify as targets. In fact those would be the worst to target. They could be potential whistleblowers you never learned of, for example. That said, sticking to well known people that could be targets, there's a large variety of those to e.g. MLK Jr, Malcom X, JFK, Robert Kennedy -- to name but a few in a single decade's span.
      - pvg 9y ago
        These are political assassinations but they are assassinations by crazies. If you think these are government plots or that the man is secretly sending ninjas to rub out potential whistleblowers, you have to come up with some evidence otherwise it's just conspiracy theorizing. We might as well talk of alien abductions.
- MK999 9y ago
  Depends on how you interpret conspiracy theories.
- kingkawn 9y ago
  It is true, we are experts at effecting the social death so that the continued existence of the body is only a lingering triviality.
- lurker456 9y ago
  Michael Hastings and Kenneth Lay come to mind. No proof obviously.
  - tc313 9y ago
    Ken Lay's death was a life insurance scam.
- tc313 9y ago
  Especially not AFTER they've done all the damage they can do! What's the point of killing her now?
beaconstudios 9y ago
I think the "having been a whistleblower in the most powerful government on the planet" part of Chelsea's story is considerably more risky than the "is transgendered" part. There aren't many people running around "gunning for" trans people in the same sense that there are people "gunning for" informants. Primarily in the sense that in the latter case they use actual guns.
- lawless123 9y ago
  Id say there is some overlap between the two groups..
  - datatan 9y ago
    And you would be wrong.
    - Posibyte 9y ago
      Can you elaborate on that, datatan? I'm not saying lawless is necessarily correct, but from the confidence of your statement, it sounds like you have data to show otherwise. Would you mind sharing that? I feel it would make a good talking point in this thread.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Trans people are safe in very few places in the world.
  - cmdrfred 9y ago
    No place is safe considering the majority violent cause of death among trans people is suicide.
    - aoeusnth1 9y ago
      I wonder why that is... Maybe the social isolation and pervasive hatred and mocking attitude of society has something to do with it?
Torwald 9y ago
> even if she wasn't trans Who is gunning trans (just because they are trans)?
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  Probably most notable case is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Teena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Teena (the story was made into the movie Boys Don't Cry). You can find quite a few more on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_transgender_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_tran....
  - ng12 9y ago
    It's the second part of his question that's the important one -- lots of people are murdered for lots of different reasons. There are estimated to be over a million trans people in the USA, do they have a disproportionately high rate of murder?
    - ceejayoz 9y ago
      I can't find conclusive numbers on murders specifically. http://time.com/3999348/transgender-murders-2015/ http://time.com/3999348/transgender-murders-2015/ says: > Though a federal hate crimes law requires the collection of some statistics related to violence against transgender people, experts are dubious about the numbers they're getting. “A lot of jurisdictions report zeroes, even in places where we know there are hate crimes," Keisling says. Most state laws don't require the collection of such statistics, according to Minter. Given the high incidence of sexual violence against transgender persons (https://www.ovc.gov/pubs/forge/sexual_numbers.html https://www.ovc.gov/pubs/forge/sexual_numbers.html) it certainly seems likely the murder rate is similarly high. There's a "one-in-twelve" stat that appears to have gone around, but it's not true: http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/may/13/garnet-coleman/garnet-coleman-said-transgender-person-has-1-12-ch/ http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/may/13/garne...

rosalinekarr 9y ago

This is long overdue. Chelsea will probably be doing interviews soon, and since [she's already been pretty outspoken about internet freedoms][1], she may even bring some much needed attention to issues like net neutrality, government surveillance and the never ending erosion of our online rights. Let's hope the media doesn't tear her apart. [1]: https://twitter.com/xychelsea/status/847264510247190532 https://twitter.com/xychelsea/status/847264510247190532

RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago
Unfortunately, many of the people that need convincing with regards to net neutrality and online rights also view her as a traitor with mental problems and thus "normal, patriotic Americans" should not worry about these things, except to prevent "liberals" from creating more "regulations" for companies and putting up barriers to keep our law enforcement from finding the "terrorists'" plans.
- dmix 9y ago
  Effecting change still takes time and effort. That requires people putting the time in, regardless if they themselves aren't a persuasive spokesperson with a mainstream audience. There's much work to be done to push the ideas out to a wider audience. For one thing she is certainly more credible not being in prison.
- TheGirondin 9y ago
  This comment is so loaded with strawmen and vitriol I don't think it meets our communities comment guidelines.
  - falcolas 9y ago
    Yes, but it's still true, as my own conversations with conservative in-laws shows.
    - SteveGerencser 9y ago

ceejayoz 9y ago

Sort of. She's on unpaid active duty with the Army still while her appeals wind through the legal system, and thus subject to the UCMJ. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/05/14/chelsea-manning-wikileaks-transgender-soldier-donald-trump/101594390/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/05/14/chel...

le-mark 9y ago
This is what I was going to remark on and maybe someone can clarify, but I don't believe the Army has any such thing as "unpaid active duty". The military doesn't just make up stuff like that. If you're on active duty, you're getting a check and accrueing time in service. Seems like sloppy reporting. Also considering: > After the 2013 sentencing, the ex-intelligence agent changed her name to Chelsea Manning and identified as transgender. Enlisted MI are hardly 'intelligence agents'.
- rascul 9y ago
  There certainly are methods of punishment the Army uses which includes taking one's pay while they are on active duty. It's not clear to me though how it's done in Manning's case. Edit: NBC reports it as voluntary excess leave. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/chelsea-manning-set-be-released-prison-still-not-free-n759676 http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/chelsea-manning-set-be-r...
- ganoushoreilly 9y ago
  That's not entirely true, there are plenty of CI positions with the enlisted ranks within all branches of service. Many of the enlisted service members are also billeted within other government agencies (NSA, CIA, etc) where there titles are considered "Agent" roles. This would also include job roles with the "operator" designation, which are not solely SOF based.

logicallee 9y ago

[withdrawn]

loeg 9y ago
It's totally relevant. Trans people experience attacks at a much higher rate than the background population.
- beaconstudios 9y ago
  it's on a different scale of threat though. It seems like a weird inclusion - the idea that being trans considerably increases the risk profile of someone who was an informant on the US military complex.
  - callinyouin 9y ago
    Think of it this way: I've perused enough local news comment sections to know that people who are inclined to find Chelsea Manning to be a traitor are also generally more inclined to hate trans people. So, maybe this doesn't increase the risk of her being targeted by trained assassins or government spies, but it does probably increase her risk of being targeted for a hate crime.
    - iamatworknow 9y ago
      >local news comment sections Not exactly a diverse sample of the population.
      - dTal 9y ago
        It's a bit much to expect science-journal standards of rigour in a Hacker News comment. Do you disagree with "people who are inclined to find Chelsea Manning to be a traitor are also generally more inclined to hate trans people"? It seems, at the very least, plausible.
  - dTal 9y ago

lloydjatkinson 9y ago

*he

StavrosK 9y ago
*she
- lloydjatkinson 9y ago
  Chromosomes don't lie.
sctb 9y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14358223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14358223 and marked it off-topic.
- lloydjatkinson 9y ago
  Of course, because having an opinion that isn't internet SJW hivemind is illegal.
  - andai 9y ago
    what did you write
    - lloydjatkinson 9y ago
      I corrected someone that described someone with male chromosones as "she"
      - creepydata 9y ago
        So you walk around "correcting" people who call these women https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome#/media/File:Orchids01.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrom... "she?" You must be fun at parties.

Unbeliever69 9y ago

Hopefully, she doesn't disappear, but uses her popularity to stand up and fight for what she believes.

fixermark 9y ago
It's honestly up to her. One could easily argue that in the cause of freedom, she's already (literally) done her time; someone else's turn to step up.
rmc 9y ago
She's been in prison for ~7 years, and I'll bet it was a pretty strict prison. I'm prepared to let her recovery and heal first. She is under no obligation to be under the spotlight from tomorrow.
hackunomatter 9y ago
She's still in the Army. Her ability to talk freely is very limited right now. Only when she's discharged will she be able to talk.

adamnemecek 9y ago

"During one of his final acts in office, President Barack Obama commuted Manning's sentence in January, thereby giving her an early release date." For anyone else wondering where this is coming from.

grandalf 9y ago
While I'm very pleased that President Obama commuted the sentence of Ms. Manning, I'm also disappointed that he did not do more to change the policy about classifying information that allows classification to be used as a form of propaganda (by classifying the stuff that contradicts the message we're meant to believe about a war).
- lojack 9y ago
  Don't mean to be a pendant, but he didn't pardon her. Officially her punishment was commuted. The former forgives the crime and the latter simply reduces the penalty for the crime.
  - grandalf 9y ago
    Appreciate the correction. I knew the correct status but was multitasking and got sloppy. Corrected my comment.
  - smnscu 9y ago
    Don't mean to be pedantic, but the word is pedant (a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning), not pendant (a piece of jewellery that hangs from a chain worn round the neck).
    - lucideer 9y ago
      The mispelling may have been intended as an ironic joke.
      - 9y ago

datatan 9y ago

Extremely rare and almost exclusive leftists killing people on the right. Like the JFK assassination (JFK was a conservative)

CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
> Extremely rare and almost exclusive leftists killing people on the right. Interesting claim. I'm not sure many people on the left killed doctors for performing abortions, for example. That was mostly "pro life" conservatives, from what I recall. Why are we even talking about this? Partisan politics isn't relevant. Chelsea Manning is free. This is cause for celebration.
- 404_not_found 9y ago
  > Why are we even talking about this? Partisan politics isn't relevant. He said, /after/ conveniently inserting partisan opinion and contradicting himself.
  - CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
    It wasn't a contradiction. I said "we" in my question.
  - snakeboy 9y ago
    He was rebutting the claim of the previous commenter that these political murders are carried out exclusively by "leftists".
- TheGirondin 9y ago
  I am genuinely curious why you think it is cause for celebration that bratty solider who made a massive blind data dump of classified information to sabotage the US military had their punishment drastically reduced.
  - CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
    I'm not interesting in explaining myself to nationalists. I will, however, say that 7 years of prison can be devastating for anyone but 35 years can totally ruin their life with virtually no chance of recovery. Most people have support systems, but will they still be intact after nearly half the average life span? Regardless of your opinion of what Manning did, the fact that she is no longer in prison means that at least one more person has a chance at life. Isn't that worth celebrating?

panzer_wyrm 9y ago

While not rotting in prison is great - isn't it strange that Manning was pardoned, while there are a lot more pardon deserving persons among the other whistleblowers of the era. Nothing good or interesting came from those leaks. And they were legitimate threat to US security. And Snowden ones were responsible, curated and only in the areas where rights of US citizens were infringed. And yet he is stranded in Russia (1/6 of the world, so not bad). What is the lesson - if you leak, leak more severe?

masklinn 9y ago
> While not rotting in prison is great - isn't it strange that Manning was pardoned Manning was not pardoned, her sentence was commuted. She is still considered guilty on all grounds on which she was convicted. > And Snowden ones were responsible, curated and only in the areas where rights of US citizens were infringed. > And yet he is stranded in Russia (1/6 of the world, so not bad). > What is the lesson - if you leak, leak more severe? Snowden has not been sitting a in a US prison for years (in pretty difficult conditions) after a sentencing which many found excessive and unfair. So the lesson is rather more "get sentenced to rank reduction to E-1, forfeiting of pay and allowances, dishonorably discharged and 35 years in prison and you may see the last part reduced to only ~6 years afterwards". Oh don't forget the 6 years include a significant duration as POI at Quantico: * checks by guards every five minutes * not allowed to sleep between 5 am (7 am on weekends) and 8 pm * required to remain visible at all times, no sheets, pillow built into mattress, and blanket designed for unshreddability * sleeping attire limited to boxer shorts * 6 × 12 ft (1.8 x 3.6 m) with no window, containing a bed, toilet and sink * allowed to walk for up to one hour a day, meals in the cell, shackled during lawyer visits Not to disparage Snowden, and his reasons for not coming back seem sound, but political asylum in Russia isn't exactly Manning's last 6 years.
- asdfGUYasdfn 9y ago
  You know, the conditions of these two should have been an environments similar to those in GITMO. I have no sympathy for these people.
- VLM 9y ago

ordbajsare 9y ago

To bad they forced an sex change on HIM!

interfixus 9y ago

This person is male. Could we please avoid the biologically nonsensical charade of referring to him as"she"?

CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
In a word: No.
- interfixus 9y ago
  Then could the downvoters please explain to me how this male is supposed to be female?
  - coldtea 9y ago
    By the power of will.
  - CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
    Simple: A person's gender is a part of their personal identity. Chelsea Manning says that their gender is female, even if their biological sex is male. As a consequence of respect for their personal identity as a member of society (and NOT fixating on their sex organs, which is frankly creepy), most people will refer to a trans* person as the gender they identify as, not the sex they were born with. Or, if uncertain (because of genderfluidity and new pronouns like Xe/Xir/whatever), just using "singular they" and moving on with your life. It's a polite society thing.
    - myaccountzz 9y ago
      > Simple: A person's gender is a part of their personal identity. That's an opinion.
      - CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
        That's actually a fact. Gender is defined as: the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones). For most people, your gender and your sex are congruent. For others, it isn't. Even if you don't agree: Why do you care?

raverbashing 9y ago

Now the question is: will Assange follow up with his promise?

strictnein 9y ago
Of course not.
- zeroer 9y ago
  It was dumb of Assange to make the offer.
r3bl 9y ago
For those wondering, WikiLeaks claimed[0] that they'll agree to Assange being extradited to the US if Obama grants clemency to Manning, but later on Assange's lawyers said[1] that this was only applicable if Manning gets released immediately, and that the deal Obama gave was still not enough for Assange to agree to be extradited. [0] https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/819630102787059713 https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/819630102787059713 [1] http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/314783-assange-lawyer-conditions-not-met-for-assange-manning-extradition-offer http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/314783-assange-lawye...
- dclowd9901 9y ago
  Clemency would mean that she was pardoned, yes? But she was merely released early on a commuted sentence.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - teraflop 9y ago
    Pardoning and commutation are both forms of clemency.
  - uiri 9y ago
    Clemency covers both pardons and commutations of sentences.

jfabre 9y ago

It's so stupid that you can downvote someone when you disagree with him/her on HN. Totally makes the whole website an echo chamber.

debaserab2 9y ago
I think people are getting a little tired of the Seth Rich conspiracy claims with nothing but circumstantial evidence. It's becoming some kind of rallying cry for trump supporters (who still can't seem to drop the hillary conspiracies for some reason) and what's especially annoying about it is people seem to be taking it as de facto truth despite no real evidence to back up the claim. So I don't think this as much about HN being an echo chamber. You're really not adding to the discussion other than propagating the conspiracy unless you're going to provide some evidence. Conspiracy theories don't really fly on HN.
- jfabre 9y ago
  I agree with you, but I could say the exact same thing on the "Russia hacked the election" conspiracy. And yet, if you do a search on HN, people who get down-voted and flagged are those who don't support the theory.
  - _jal 9y ago
    Let's see: one is a transparently ginned-up story in the mold of the Vince Foster nonsense. The other has and is playing out partly in public, with the man at the center of the controversy going out of his way to confirm some of the suspicions. I'm certainly not going to claim that HN doesn't have collective biases. But thankfully, one of those is a bias towards looking at reality. Certainly not a perfect one, but in general facts work a lot better here than hot air does.
sctb 9y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14358599 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14358599 and marked it off-topic.

btbuildem 9y ago

> She was released from United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth in Kansas around 3 a.m. 3am?! A parting kick to the head, or a ploy to avoid publicity?

skrause 9y ago
If you were to be released on the 17th, would you rather go at 3 am or 10 pm? I would like to go as early as possible. 3 am is not as good as immediately at midnight, but I wouldn't consider it a kick to the head.
xutopia 9y ago
To avoid it happening when the other inmates are awake maybe?

hectorr 9y ago

I have very mixed feelings about what Manning did. I also respect the moral courage it took to do them, and to face the consequences.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Aloha 9y ago
I think she served a more than adequate punishment for her crime (if anything, she should have only had serve something less than 5 years).. and I wish her all the happiness that life has to offer.
- mjgoins 9y ago
  Her punishment was illegal under the 8th amendment, and her "crime" was protected whistleblowing.
  - Aloha 9y ago
    I don't think putting someone in extended solitary confinement is reasonable in almost any circumstance (and very not reasonable in this case). But I don't think what she did is protected whistleblowing (she basically aired the 'sausage making' of US foreign and military policy, not highlighted a specific violation of US law) - on the other hand, I think the length of the sentence ought to be proportional to the gravity of the crime.. 35 years is overkill by an order of magnitude, she should have gotten 1-5 years.. with 2 being an ideal.

pfarnsworth 9y ago

As far as I'm concerned this is the first thing that Obama did that was a real progressive act. Thank God he did this. If only he did the same for Snowden.

fixermark 9y ago
It's unlikely Snowden will ever get a pardon. Functional governments have a vested interest in not forgiving blatant disregard for their laws, regardless of the morality of the acts that led to the disregard. It's possible (but probably unlikely) that he could have been pardoned, found innocent, or had a sentence commuted had he turned himself in, but escaping the reach of American justice? There's very little incentive for a country to reward "Break the law then run from our jurisdiction," independent of the details. Snowden's successfully attained a life probably free of American legal influence. His reward is a life free of American legal influence.
- pfarnsworth 9y ago
  I agree. And I doubt his fate is going to get any better in the future, unfortunately.
  - fixermark 9y ago
    His fate is pretty good as-is, right? I hear Russia is a beautiful country.
    - pfarnsworth 9y ago
      I wouldn't characterize it as pretty good. He's living day to day, and at any point Russia could change their minds. Snowden basically sacrificed his life and freedom for the rest of us.
- CaptSpify 9y ago
  > Functional governments have a vested interest in not forgiving blatant disregard for their laws Unless you are high enough on the food-chain

lerie 9y ago

gross.

jonathantm 9y ago
ironic.

asdfGUYasdfn 9y ago

I'm not sure why people feel so sympathetic to the stealing of classified material and giving them effectively to foreign intelligence services is still a socially acceptable practice. Bradley Edward Manning should have found himself at the end of a noose, as much as Edward Snowden should have. Liberal or not, if you look outside of these borders of the United States ... they both provided material to everyone from ISIS to Iran to China to Russia to every terrorist with half a brain to leverage against our sovereignty. I don't want to pull a 9/11 reference here - but if it's OK to kill 3,000+ people by proxy .. then be my guest and idolize people like this. However, myself ... I will call it what it is - treason.

matt_s 9y ago

Why is this on Hacker news?

aparadja 9y ago
Hacker News isn't exclusively about startups and software.
- matt_s 9y ago
  Oh my mistake. Maybe it should be renamed to "News, commented on by hackers"
  - CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
    That's a great idea, but it's kind of wordy. Maybe something short and pithy like "Hacker News" would work?
- Cakez0r 9y ago
  No, but the guidelines do say that political news stories are generally considered off topic and I'm not sure there's any interesting discussion to be had or new insight to be gained from this article. It just seems to have invited mostly vitriolic, off-topic debate.
jes5199 9y ago
Hacker
- abraves10001 9y ago
  Also, news.
jonathantm 9y ago
Why are you on Hacker news?
- matt_s 9y ago

wand3r 9y ago

I signed the petition. I am cynical and really don't take much civic action; but this helped. This taught me to be less cynical; she taught me to be more courageous. Thank you Chelsea, welcome home

throwawy321342 9y ago

This is great news. Frankly I was hoping the fact that a significant part of "alt.right" gang were behind Trump would mean the end of witch-hunts for Manning, Snowden and Assange (and no more random wars). Alas; Trump has turned out to be the pompous idiot which many of us feared; the "alt.right" turned into a paper tiger pushing xenophobic attitudes with little expected in terms of accountability from USG. I have to give credit to people on the alt-side for warning people about Trump; his connections, lack of ethics, and what his term would beget.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

vivekd 9y ago

I disagree with what she did, she probably made the world a much less safe place and caused thousands if not millions of deaths through wikileaks role in inciting the Arab spring. Still I'm convinced she did it with the best of intentions and the genuine belief that she would make the world more peaceful and open. I guess she was naive so I'm glad to see her released early.

skrebbel 9y ago
This is the attitude that keeps dictators re-elected. Vote for stability!
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
cestith 9y ago
One might assume that if what she leaked upset people to the point of revolution that there was something they had a right to be upset about.
- vivekd 9y ago
  This works all that well from an idealistic perspective but when the result is having these nations over-run by terrorists like ISIS and oppressive theocratic regimes, I question the benefit of these revolutions. The world is more complex than simple "it's bad, let's revolt." There are better ways to bring about change than inciting violent revolutions.
  - cestith 9y ago
    Chelsea didn't incite the revolutions. She only released the information. The information that was previously hidden was found to be egregious enough for others to incite the violence. That's enough reason for me to believe she was right that people had the right to know. Yeah, I'd have preferred the Arab Spring to be resolved more peaceably myself. It's not under Chelsea's control nor mine how that played out after the information was released. It's difficult to blame the person who released true information for the impact of the information. The content and the creators or subjects of the content are to blame for the revolutions. Chelsea just let the rebels and revolutionaries know what they had every right to know.

artorias 9y ago

Meanwhile, while the masses are distracted, Oscar Rivera is also released from house arrest today (and was released from US prisons on 2/9/2017). Who is Oscar Rivera you ask? >Oscar López Rivera (born January 6, 1943) is a Puerto Rican independence activist[1] who was one of the leaders of the FALN. What was FALN you ask? >The Fuerzas Armadas de Liberación Nacional (English: Armed Forces of National Liberation, FALN) was a Puerto Rican clandestine paramilitary organization that, through direct action, advocated complete independence for Puerto Rico. At the time of its dissolution, the FALN was responsible for more than 120 bomb attacks on United States targets between 1974 and 1983 that killed 5 people and injured several others Thanks Obama, for freeing people responsible for killing Americans via actual terrorism. Oh, and the Clintons? Yeah, they started this by commuting the sentences of 16 FALN members simply to help Hillary get votes. And the best part? It wasn't the members of FALN asking for clemency, but rather the white house pushing it- for votes. And it worked. http://archive.is/Al6jz http://archive.is/Al6jz >Hillary Rodham Clinton was in the midst of her state-wide "listening tour" in anticipation of her run for the U.S. Senate in New York, a state which included 1.3 million Hispanics. Three members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus -- Luis V. Gutierrez (D., Ill.), Jose E. Serrano, (D., N.Y.) and Nydia M. Velazquez, (D., N.Y.) -- along with local Hispanic politicians and leftist human-rights advocates, had been agitating for years on behalf of the FALN cases directly to the White House and first lady. This is nothing more than a clever smoke screen by Obama to get you people to ignore the fact that him and the Clintons have dedicated themselves to freeing terrorists. LET THE DOWNVOTES BEGIN, HN That's right, flag my posts because you dislike the truth. Keep it up, prove my point.

justforFranz 9y ago

Right-wing nutjob stalks and kills Manning (for Jesus) in 3..2..1.... (P.S. this is NOT an endorsement.)

pmarreck 9y ago

Good.