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Time and time again, Uber has shown that undercutting their competitors in pricing is not done through smart technology or better business models, but by avoidi

Time and time again, Uber has shown that undercutting their competitors in pricing is not done through smart technology or better business models, but by avoiding regulations and getting away with inhumane wages.

sundvor 9y ago
Yep, my impression was that Foodora was vastly more respectful of their riders, even though they certainly did push them physically (which is only fair enough I guess). Uber deserves the bad rep they are getting. Great write up by the journalist; I'm jealous of all the riding KMs. :)
- Roritharr 9y ago
  I order rather regularly from Foodora in Frankfurt/Germany. Their riders mostly do their best to look happy, but I can't help feeling guilty when I order when it rains/snows or there is even harsher weather (there was a particular nasty thunderstorm that made me crave Burritos...). I always give them an additional tip in these cases. There's been bad experiences/odd situations though. Once a rider spilled half of my chili con carne on the stairs up to my apartment, without telling me so and bolted after he gave me the soggy paperbag with the rest of my food. I got a 10€ Discount Code out of that, but that hardly covered the cleaning of the walls. Then now two times it has happened that Foodora called me roughly an hour after ordering if the Food had arrived yet, because they've "lost" their rider/couldn't contact them anymore. I really hope they just stole the food and didn't have an accident in traffic, but I'll never find out.
  - tenzo 9y ago
    This made me think about the time I saw a deliveroo rider being carried away in a stretcher after an accident. It upset me to think that I'm pretty sure theres a customer waiting for their food and most likely cursing the rider/ sending angry emails
  - obstinate 9y ago
    I wonder. Would the delivery guy be happier to have no deliveries during a snowstorm (and thus no tips, or possibly no hours)? Maybe if their needs are well backstopped by the government. But otherwise perhaps not.
- TillE 9y ago
  What I've read in the German newspapers suggests they're not really any better than Deliveroo. I still use them sometimes, but tip generously.
patrickaljord 9y ago
The alternative for many unskilled people would be to be unemployed and having even less income, would that be more or less inhumane?
- willvarfar 9y ago
  The people working for Foodora have the same qualifications. That's what the article is all about.
  - jerguismi 9y ago
    Not everyone can get a job at foodora. They clearly invest to those employees that they choose.
  - manmal 9y ago
    Not sure about that - might be that Foodora would not hire people who cannot speak Swedish well enough. Also, Uber had no cardio/speed test. It seems that everybody with a clean criminal record can apply at Uber, but Foodora is more restrictive. Maybe like Play Store vs App Store.
- bnegreve 9y ago
  That would not be sustainable and would probably lead to some kind of uprising.
- argonaut 9y ago
  This is essentially an argument against having a minimum wage in general (and more broadly, certain labor regulations). It's a complex issue that we could argue about for pages and pages of comments, but suffice to say the vast majority of the population in the US, let alone Sweden, disagree with you. Which is that in some cases it is better to have some unemployed people and some (ideally a lot more) people earning a good wage, versus both groups earning a crappy wage. Combined with a welfare system.
  - kalleboo 9y ago
    Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage. It has very strong unions instead.
jerguismi 9y ago
However has to be said that uber eats is not their core business. I've heard about it before but never used it. They should probably leave that business to others.
- guilamu 9y ago
  This doesn't change a thing to the point which is that they are basically doing human slavery at 4 bucks an hour.
  - RobertoG 9y ago
    Is Uber the real problem? I mean, how is it that, in one of the richest countries in the world(1), in the more abundant period of human history, there are people that have to accept those conditions? (1) and, supposedly, one of the more socialist also!
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - kpil 9y ago
      It could be anything from 10.000 to 500.000 unregistered illegal immigrants in Sweden right now. Possibly even more. The government reports 20.000 people are 'missing' but that does not include those that never registered. The legal status of the terrorist that was caught highlighted the fact that there is next to no control, but nothing seems to be done. All those people need to work in some way or another.
    - stapled_socks 9y ago
      Ironically, parts of the employee protection in Sweden is based on semi voluntary deals between unions and employers. There is no law for minimum wage, for example.
  - driverdan 9y ago
    Stop the hyperbole. Your statement is insulting to all the victims of slavery and human trafficking.
branchless 9y ago
So we need a minimum wage? Or "capitalism will self-regulate"? Isn't this just yet another example that our system is a total failure that requires constant tweaking / intervention? Imagine someone here writing a post about a program to perform a mathematical operation. It gives the wrong answer. It takes ages to run also. But if you attach gdb, set a breakpoint and increment the necessary variables you can get the right answer. They'd be laughed out of town.
- rzwitserloot 9y ago
  This is sweden; a country with a fine social safety net and no significant unemployment issues. I have no idea if capitalism will self-regulate, but I'm not sure this is indicative either way. The problem here appears to be that Uber is just plain lying about how much you actually earn. As the article seems to indicate, this results in the delivery crew calling it quits after a month. I assume, if you had told uber eats 'employees' what's actually going to happen _before_ they go in for the interview, they wouldn't even go for it. Journalism like this will spread the word. More to the point, uber eats is one of the first such companies, so presumably people looking for a job in Sweden simply do not even consider they can be swindled out of a fair wage like this. A few more uber eats and presumably word gets out and people will go online and do a little bit of research prior to taking these jobs. Between the vast numbers who won't even go for the interview and the fact that the few that do tend to wash out after a month, uber eats will soon find themselves with no drivers at all. At which point they have to pack up shop and probably end the adventure in the red (it does cost money to set up, advertise, etc), or start marketing that they NOW _DO_ pay a nice wage. TL;DR: Uber is a shitty company that lies, but Swedes still need to learn they have to check what they're told for such freelance-based jobs, which is why they can currently get away with the scam.
  - jacobr 9y ago
    > Between the vast numbers who won't even go for the interview and the fact that the few that do tend to wash out after a month, uber eats will soon find themselves with no drivers at all. A significant number of the drivers are recently arrived immigrants with little chance to get another job. They definitely don't read Breakit. They are not in a situation to pick-and-choose. They might get by on a small wage by working crazy hours and sharing a cheap apartment with dozens of others in the same situation.
smcl 9y ago
The rates and stuff don't look like the main issue, the quote at the summary of his Uber section gives more insight - "The deliveries are too few". I dislike Uber as much as the next guy, but it sounds like they've either got too many couriers or not enough partner restaurants to make it worthwhile for the guys they have working or them.
- arekkas 9y ago
  Uber not penetrating the market yet is not an excuse for their actions nor does it contradict the statement above.
  - smcl 9y ago
    We could be talking about lots of things when "their actions" - they're no stranger to controversy or being kinda shitty to their employees - so what specifically do you mean?
- g00gler 9y ago
  I really like the selection on Uber eats but the delivery fee is typically 2.5-5x higher than GrubHub, thusly I rarely use it. Might be a contributing factor.
- hopfog 9y ago
  Yes, the rates are quite good if the system works as intended. From the article: > “Hello Erik! Today you are guaranteed 300 SEK per hour in “generated amount” when you deliver with Uber Eats during 11:00 am – 1:00 pm & 5:30 pm – 8:30 pm. Hope to see you online!”. The problem is that you need to accept 1 - 1.5 deliveries an hour to activate this, which wasn't possible for the journalist due to the reasons you're mentioning. Uber is now revising the incentives system: http://www.breakit.se/artikel/7575/efter-breakits-granskning-nu-utlovar-uber-eats-battre-jobbvillkor http://www.breakit.se/artikel/7575/efter-breakits-granskning... http://www.breakit.se/artikel/7608/efter-kritiken-sa-forandrar-uber-ersattningen-till-cykelbuden http://www.breakit.se/artikel/7608/efter-kritiken-sa-forandr... Disclaimer: I work for one of the companies handling the salary administration.
- 9y ago
toss1 9y ago
Or, more precisely, Uber is earning by systematically stealing the waiting time of their drivers (e.g., by misleading promotions getting everyone out to wait for orders). In contrast to Foodora, which pays for shift time plus delivery commission. Simply, Uber is based on shortchanging everyone but Uber itself and pocketing the difference. Unsustainable, and I always use alternatives.
- Scoundreller 9y ago
  Per the article, Foodora-Stockholm doesn't pay for shift time on weekends. But it sounds like Foodora has work around the clock, but UberEats does not. The question is: Why is Foodora dominating Uber Eats in Stockholm? Is Uber a late entrant? Shunned by restaurants? Shunned by consumers? Too expensive for restaurants or consumers?
  - ripperdoc 9y ago
    Uber Eats is less known in Stockholm and a later entrant.

sundvor 9y ago

Yep, my impression was that Foodora was vastly more respectful of their riders, even though they certainly did push them physically (which is only fair enough I guess). Uber deserves the bad rep they are getting. Great write up by the journalist; I'm jealous of all the riding KMs. :)

Roritharr 9y ago
I order rather regularly from Foodora in Frankfurt/Germany. Their riders mostly do their best to look happy, but I can't help feeling guilty when I order when it rains/snows or there is even harsher weather (there was a particular nasty thunderstorm that made me crave Burritos...). I always give them an additional tip in these cases. There's been bad experiences/odd situations though. Once a rider spilled half of my chili con carne on the stairs up to my apartment, without telling me so and bolted after he gave me the soggy paperbag with the rest of my food. I got a 10€ Discount Code out of that, but that hardly covered the cleaning of the walls. Then now two times it has happened that Foodora called me roughly an hour after ordering if the Food had arrived yet, because they've "lost" their rider/couldn't contact them anymore. I really hope they just stole the food and didn't have an accident in traffic, but I'll never find out.
- tenzo 9y ago
  This made me think about the time I saw a deliveroo rider being carried away in a stretcher after an accident. It upset me to think that I'm pretty sure theres a customer waiting for their food and most likely cursing the rider/ sending angry emails
- obstinate 9y ago
  I wonder. Would the delivery guy be happier to have no deliveries during a snowstorm (and thus no tips, or possibly no hours)? Maybe if their needs are well backstopped by the government. But otherwise perhaps not.
TillE 9y ago
What I've read in the German newspapers suggests they're not really any better than Deliveroo. I still use them sometimes, but tip generously.

patrickaljord 9y ago

The alternative for many unskilled people would be to be unemployed and having even less income, would that be more or less inhumane?

willvarfar 9y ago
The people working for Foodora have the same qualifications. That's what the article is all about.
- jerguismi 9y ago
  Not everyone can get a job at foodora. They clearly invest to those employees that they choose.
- manmal 9y ago
  Not sure about that - might be that Foodora would not hire people who cannot speak Swedish well enough. Also, Uber had no cardio/speed test. It seems that everybody with a clean criminal record can apply at Uber, but Foodora is more restrictive. Maybe like Play Store vs App Store.
bnegreve 9y ago
That would not be sustainable and would probably lead to some kind of uprising.
argonaut 9y ago
This is essentially an argument against having a minimum wage in general (and more broadly, certain labor regulations). It's a complex issue that we could argue about for pages and pages of comments, but suffice to say the vast majority of the population in the US, let alone Sweden, disagree with you. Which is that in some cases it is better to have some unemployed people and some (ideally a lot more) people earning a good wage, versus both groups earning a crappy wage. Combined with a welfare system.
- kalleboo 9y ago
  Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage. It has very strong unions instead.

jerguismi 9y ago

However has to be said that uber eats is not their core business. I've heard about it before but never used it. They should probably leave that business to others.

guilamu 9y ago
This doesn't change a thing to the point which is that they are basically doing human slavery at 4 bucks an hour.
- RobertoG 9y ago
  Is Uber the real problem? I mean, how is it that, in one of the richest countries in the world(1), in the more abundant period of human history, there are people that have to accept those conditions? (1) and, supposedly, one of the more socialist also!
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - kpil 9y ago
    It could be anything from 10.000 to 500.000 unregistered illegal immigrants in Sweden right now. Possibly even more. The government reports 20.000 people are 'missing' but that does not include those that never registered. The legal status of the terrorist that was caught highlighted the fact that there is next to no control, but nothing seems to be done. All those people need to work in some way or another.
  - stapled_socks 9y ago
    Ironically, parts of the employee protection in Sweden is based on semi voluntary deals between unions and employers. There is no law for minimum wage, for example.
- driverdan 9y ago
  Stop the hyperbole. Your statement is insulting to all the victims of slavery and human trafficking.

branchless 9y ago

So we need a minimum wage? Or "capitalism will self-regulate"? Isn't this just yet another example that our system is a total failure that requires constant tweaking / intervention? Imagine someone here writing a post about a program to perform a mathematical operation. It gives the wrong answer. It takes ages to run also. But if you attach gdb, set a breakpoint and increment the necessary variables you can get the right answer. They'd be laughed out of town.

rzwitserloot 9y ago
This is sweden; a country with a fine social safety net and no significant unemployment issues. I have no idea if capitalism will self-regulate, but I'm not sure this is indicative either way. The problem here appears to be that Uber is just plain lying about how much you actually earn. As the article seems to indicate, this results in the delivery crew calling it quits after a month. I assume, if you had told uber eats 'employees' what's actually going to happen _before_ they go in for the interview, they wouldn't even go for it. Journalism like this will spread the word. More to the point, uber eats is one of the first such companies, so presumably people looking for a job in Sweden simply do not even consider they can be swindled out of a fair wage like this. A few more uber eats and presumably word gets out and people will go online and do a little bit of research prior to taking these jobs. Between the vast numbers who won't even go for the interview and the fact that the few that do tend to wash out after a month, uber eats will soon find themselves with no drivers at all. At which point they have to pack up shop and probably end the adventure in the red (it does cost money to set up, advertise, etc), or start marketing that they NOW _DO_ pay a nice wage. TL;DR: Uber is a shitty company that lies, but Swedes still need to learn they have to check what they're told for such freelance-based jobs, which is why they can currently get away with the scam.
- jacobr 9y ago
  > Between the vast numbers who won't even go for the interview and the fact that the few that do tend to wash out after a month, uber eats will soon find themselves with no drivers at all. A significant number of the drivers are recently arrived immigrants with little chance to get another job. They definitely don't read Breakit. They are not in a situation to pick-and-choose. They might get by on a small wage by working crazy hours and sharing a cheap apartment with dozens of others in the same situation.

smcl 9y ago

The rates and stuff don't look like the main issue, the quote at the summary of his Uber section gives more insight - "The deliveries are too few". I dislike Uber as much as the next guy, but it sounds like they've either got too many couriers or not enough partner restaurants to make it worthwhile for the guys they have working or them.

arekkas 9y ago
Uber not penetrating the market yet is not an excuse for their actions nor does it contradict the statement above.
- smcl 9y ago
  We could be talking about lots of things when "their actions" - they're no stranger to controversy or being kinda shitty to their employees - so what specifically do you mean?
g00gler 9y ago
I really like the selection on Uber eats but the delivery fee is typically 2.5-5x higher than GrubHub, thusly I rarely use it. Might be a contributing factor.
hopfog 9y ago
Yes, the rates are quite good if the system works as intended. From the article: > “Hello Erik! Today you are guaranteed 300 SEK per hour in “generated amount” when you deliver with Uber Eats during 11:00 am – 1:00 pm & 5:30 pm – 8:30 pm. Hope to see you online!”. The problem is that you need to accept 1 - 1.5 deliveries an hour to activate this, which wasn't possible for the journalist due to the reasons you're mentioning. Uber is now revising the incentives system: http://www.breakit.se/artikel/7575/efter-breakits-granskning-nu-utlovar-uber-eats-battre-jobbvillkor http://www.breakit.se/artikel/7575/efter-breakits-granskning... http://www.breakit.se/artikel/7608/efter-kritiken-sa-forandrar-uber-ersattningen-till-cykelbuden http://www.breakit.se/artikel/7608/efter-kritiken-sa-forandr... Disclaimer: I work for one of the companies handling the salary administration.
9y ago

toss1 9y ago

Or, more precisely, Uber is earning by systematically stealing the waiting time of their drivers (e.g., by misleading promotions getting everyone out to wait for orders). In contrast to Foodora, which pays for shift time plus delivery commission. Simply, Uber is based on shortchanging everyone but Uber itself and pocketing the difference. Unsustainable, and I always use alternatives.

Scoundreller 9y ago
Per the article, Foodora-Stockholm doesn't pay for shift time on weekends. But it sounds like Foodora has work around the clock, but UberEats does not. The question is: Why is Foodora dominating Uber Eats in Stockholm? Is Uber a late entrant? Shunned by restaurants? Shunned by consumers? Too expensive for restaurants or consumers?
- ripperdoc 9y ago
  Uber Eats is less known in Stockholm and a later entrant.