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New Distros Coming to Bash/WSL via Windows Store
- discreditable 9y agoCan't wait for Arch Linux!
- brunoqc 9y agoIt's been possible for a while. I used it, maybe it was https://github.com/alwsl/alwsl https://github.com/alwsl/alwsl
- Semaphor 9y agoArch works fine, the wsl subreddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/bashonubuntuonwindows/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bashonubuntuonwindows/) has a guide how to install it manually.
- oridecon 9y agoWhat a nice name for a subreddit
- godmodus 9y agoHope for fixes for stuff like npm, too.
- orf 9y agoFixes for what, specifically?
- komali2 9y agoPerhaps they only used it at the very beginning, when network requests were horribly broken, to the point that you couldn't even do an npm install. I haven't had any issues lately with NPM however. Don't want to speak for them though so let's see
- godmodus 9y agoNpm is broken for example, it's apath exception when it looks into the os api. It expects linux defaults. The npm guys are trying to f8x it last i saw. Shame the module causes that. Itll trinkle down to many other Tools.
- zadjii 9y agoIs this windows npm, or linux npm running on WSL? Because I believe that linux npm works just fine...
- apardoe-MSFT 9y agoI've used Linux npm on Ubuntu/WSL without any issues.
- mcdirty 9y agoI initially had problems with max character length for paths. When npm installed dependencies really deep down, Windows became unable to move or delete such files. I think it's been fixed with Yarn's flat dependency structure, which I think npm has also gone or is going to in the near future.
- moogly 9y agoThat change was made in NPM3, before Yarn was publicly released.
- smacktoward 9y agoMicrosoft is so frustrating. On the one hand, they really seem earnest about wanting to make Windows 10 appealing to people like me who fled Windows for Unix-alike systems long ago. And steps like this show that they're not just addressing that at a shallow level, but are willing to dig deep to make it happen, which is sincerely encouraging. But then on the other hand, they insist on loading Windows 10 up with privacy invasions you can't disable and ads in deeply inappropriate places like Windows Explorer, which is just a huge buzz-kill for the exact type of person who the other stuff is so clearly meant to appeal to. Which gives the whole effort a real Keystone Kops aspect. It feels like there's different groups inside MS that are working from fundamentally incompatible premises, and Nadella either isn't willing or isn't able to wrangle them into all pulling in the same direction. I guess it's an improvement over the Microsoft of old to see the company's basic orientation go from "competent evil" to "incompetent good," but when you consider how few good things there are in the universe it's always sad to see a potential new one kneecapping itself.
- pilot72 9y agoIt's easy to understand: http://i.imgur.com/3zbOPJI.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3zbOPJI.jpg
- nbevans 9y agoI'm not saying it's not true but I am yet to see any advertisement in my Windows 10 anywhere... even Explorer! Anyone else?
- kodfodrasz 9y agoI have also not seen any anytime. It is also true that I only use managed Enterprise, and a pro at home where I have o365 subscription.
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- ajross 9y agoWould be nicer if they would just document the bootstrap process for initializing a WSL "container" (or whatever their term is) so the community can do this on its own.
- 2bitencryption 9y agohow does this handle SELinux on Fedora? Is SELinux below the userland, so it doesn't factor in at all?
- moosingin3space 9y agoIIRC SELinux is an LSM which runs in the kernel.
- sp332 9y agoRight, the WSL still uses the Windows kernel, so anything at that level (filesystem permissions etc) will be handled either by the kernel or by the "pico provider" syscall translators.
- gigatexal 9y agoThey can do this all they want but no amount of linux in windows is going to get me back to using it on my main home desktop. I have no choice at work (an all MS stack: c# and sqlserver) but yeah I'll just stick to VMs, docker, or linux on bare-metal. I get the latest kernels, the ability to run anything in the nix ecosystem without arbitrary drawbacks. *Arbitrary is harsh, they did a lot of heavy lifting to get Windows, but it's still early and still rough imo.
- jabits 9y agoYes this is a really useful comment. It's so good to know what your plans are, and really says something about the link. Thanks...
- electricEmu 9y agoI didn't realize staying on the bleeding edge kernels was such a performance boost, that it's worth shying away from an entire ecosystem. It sounds a bit elitist. Alternatively, when I use Windows now I'll get both PowerShell and a full Unix environment. For my development work so far, none of those arbitrary drawbacks have stopped WSFL from being a champ. On the plus side, I don't constantly have to edit configuration files after every update because my wireless card/window manager/etc broke.
- gigatexal 9y agoThe win 10 experience for me has been such a disappointment between the privacy concerns and the overall UI I'd much rather not bother. To each their own, though.
- electricEmu 9y agoFor many of us, privacy doesn't exist on work machines anyways.
- gigatexal 9y agoOh I know. I tell myself everyday that I walk into work or log into my workstation remotely that I give up all semblance of privacy. It's in my firm's employee agreement that basically everything is tracked. I was talking about my home workstation.
- math0ne 9y agoI'm super excited about this but the windows store is cancer :(
- willtim 9y agoI want Nix and Nixpkgs. A genuinely innovative and different package manager / distro alternative.
- robto 9y agoApparently this already works really well: https://www.reddit.com/r/NixOS/comments/64xyd7/nix_package_manager_works_flawlessly_in_windows/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NixOS/comments/64xyd7/nix_package_m...
- greggeter 9y agoIs anyone else bothered that they spell 'distros' with an apostrophe?
- komali2 9y agoAnybody manage to make their Bash/WSL actually look good? I've got it just running in, what, cmd I guess? I don't know. Anyway it's fuckugly. I had to just set all the fonts to white on a black background because otherwise the returns from npm installs and git status and stuff would be unreadable deep blue. Don't get me wrong, I love using it, but it doesn't beat the aesthetics of a terminal on a mac or a nicely configured ubuntu terminal.
- jagger27 9y agoMy current hack is to install an X client and forward a single gnome-terminal window. With a bit of scripting it's pretty seamless. For all of X's warts, its networking protocol works just as intended for this kind of use case.
- moomin 9y agoI wonder if it's going to be possible to do the same with Wayland.
- jclos 9y agoYou can run it in another terminal than the standard cmd. I've got mine running through cmder (http://cmder.net/ http://cmder.net/) which is just a preconfigured ConEmu (https://conemu.github.io/ https://conemu.github.io/) with some additional stuff out of the box.
- filoleg 9y agoI managed to run it under cmder, and from there it all went nicely; installed fish and other stuff no issues.
- electrotype 9y agoI use it with ConEmu and I like my colors... Everything is configurable. http://i.imgur.com/BHDxdOJ.png http://i.imgur.com/BHDxdOJ.png
- komali2 9y ago
- sidcool 9y agoI missed the Windows 10 free upgrade and now regretting it.
- graton 9y agohttps://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/accessibility/windows10upgrade https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/accessibility/windows10upgra... Still free to upgrade
- sidcool 9y agoDoes it provide a trimmed down version of the upgrade? Will I be able to use Ubuntu subsystem?
- oridecon 9y agoYou can still activate W10 using 7/8 keys and most of the other methods still work. At least that's what people say on /r/windows10.
- austinsharp 9y agoI've heard you can activate Windows 10 with a key from 7 or 8.1 [1]. [1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/windows-10-hits-500-million-devices-growing-by-two-thirds-in-a-year/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/windo...
- kbenson 9y agoAs graton alludes to with his upgrade link, the trick is to get to the upgrade through an accessibility link. Windows 10 is still free for people that require accessibility services (presumably since it has better accessibility features), but there's no actual requirement behind that.
- tdb7893 9y agoI really like most of windows 10. My main complaint is the start menu, I have yet to figure out how I'm supposed to use it
- electrotype 9y agoThe problem with WSL is that it's young so some integrations are still not perfect. For example, the integration with VSCode : https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/25033 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/25033 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/24967 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/24967 But both teams, WSL and VSCode, are very, very responsive. I'm pretty sure in a couple of months everything will be fine.
- tejinderss 9y agoSame reason why I am not making the switch. Whenever I have good integration of wsl python interpreter running in vscode, I will be a happy person
- int_19h 9y agoNot VSCode, but... https://github.com/Microsoft/PTVS/pull/2500 https://github.com/Microsoft/PTVS/pull/2500
- revmoo 9y agoTheory; MS is planning on switching their next OS over to the Linux kernel. This is just like when Macs went over to x86; you start seeing the individual pieces (i.e. .NET CLR, WSL, cross-platform dev tools) come together and I think it paints a bigger picture.
- Scarbutt 9y agoa bit off-topic, are there cheaper ways to buy a windows 10 license than directly from microsoft for $200? (I'm not a student).
- ac29 9y agoWin 10 Home is only $110 from Newegg or Amazon, and less if you get the "OEM" version. I forget the restrictions on the OEM version, but I think its intended for people building systems and reselling them -- I don't think anything stops you from using it on your own system, its just technically in violation of the licence.
- rl3 9y agoWindows 10 Home doesn't include the Group Policy Editor though, so if you buy that you're basically stuck having all manner of things shoved down your throat. While the Pro version won't necessarily save you entirely from this, it goes a long way towards giving the user more freedom (at additional cost, of course).
- jakebasile 9y agoOEM keys don't allow you to call MS for help as it's intended that you'd call your OEM for support. I think they are supposed to be non transferable as well (can't transfer to a new PC)
- fallenhitokiri 9y agoYou can get an Professional OEM license from Kinguin[1] for ~$30. One limitation I am aware of is that you can only license / activate one system at a time and I had to call MS to get the key unlocked after upgrading my gaming system. [1] https://www.kinguin.net/category/19429/windows-10-professional-oem-key/ https://www.kinguin.net/category/19429/windows-10-profession...
- akacase 9y agowhy do people support this company still? sorry to be that guy, but i will never use a product from them after the jwz fiasco. and no, new leadership doesn't make up for decades of behavior.
- devrandomguy 9y agoWhat is jwz?
- akacase 9y agohttps://www.jwz.org/gruntle/rbarip.html https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/rbarip.html
- JadeNB 9y agoIt's not clear if it's the intended result, but that link (for me, and quite unexpectedly) redirects to an Imgur picture of a testicle in a teacup, which is a little funny but which one might not intend to display.
- cthalupa 9y agoIt seems to be a redirect based on the referring URL. Copy and paste it to get to the actual site
- devrandomguy 9y agoIt is really too bad that we can't have things like this in our society. That looks like it would have been a very healthy way to deal with stress and frustration, especially in an otherwise restrained environment like work. Thank you for that bit of history.
- grzm 9y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Zawinski https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Zawinski
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- shmerl 9y agoIs there some clear benefit of using it instead of normal VM or running Linux directly?
- Mahn 9y agoInteroperability is one: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/interop https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/interop I also appreciate the fact that it "boots" instantly (i.e. you don't have to turn it on or off like VM) and that it works out of the box with every up-to-date W10 computer (great if you need to get something done on a computer that is not your own).
- krautsourced 9y agoDoes the new update fix it working with Windows Firewall? So far it was all or nothing, you could not block any processes seperately that were running within the subsystem. I assume that has not changed?
- Mister_Snuggles 9y agoThe primary reason I even looked at a Mac, way back in the MacOS 10.2 days, was because there is a Unix underneath the pretty interface. I bought my first Mac and never looked back. Stuff like this is making me look at Windows machines again.
- corysama 9y agoI'm betting this is the real end-goal of WSL. MacBooks were once expensive, but high-quality, grab-and-go unixy development machines. Now, they're mostly just expensive. When WSL matures, any commodity laptop will be a cheap, decent quality, grab-and-go unixy dev machine. It'll probably be easier and more reliable than installing Ubuntu directly! At that point, web and server devs will migrate en mass from Mac to Windows. Then they will discover Clang for Windows and that dev tools for Windows in general are actually pretty nice. And, since they are already running their server code on WSL, it becomes much easier and more interesting to get it running in Windows directly. Bang! Huge uptick in open-source server development on Windows.
- bauerd 9y agoI just set up a cheap Windows 10 laptop I bought for my mom. It was the first time I got in touch with Windows again since the XP days. Can't say I'm too intrigued, imho the UI is lacking in so many points. I couldn't figure out how to get rid of that Cortana-thing in the taskbar, every window is littered with ribbons, list goes on and on and on … I don't see why I would go for Windows + WSL when I can just slap a distro of choice on it? While I wish Apple got its shit together, I have 0 incentive to move to Windows as a developer. I'd have to find replacements for a lot of small utility apps I take for granted on OS X, and I'd have to cope with the stupid UI Windows shoves down my throat.
- nailer 9y agoThey're getting rid on the ribbon in Explorer, you can launch it with an in-beta modern UI since last month's Windows update. They'll probably complete it and make it official in the next big one.
- Sephr 9y agoSome of these distros come with browsers and JavaScript engines that can run in the console (such as node.js, w3m, lynx, etc.). Third-party HTML and JavaScript engines are banned in the Windows Store, so can someone explain how this uneven enforcement of their own rules is ethical? Consider this quote[1] from a Microsoft spokesperson on May 9: > Windows Store apps that browse the web must use HTML and JavaScript engines provided by the Windows Platform. All Windows Store content is certified by Microsoft to help ensure a quality experience and keep your devices safer. [1]: http://www.zdnet.com/article/google-chrome-wont-be-allowed-on-windows-10-s/ http://www.zdnet.com/article/google-chrome-wont-be-allowed-o...
- flukus 9y agoWindows store or UWP apps is the gimped version of windows that no one cares about. It's about as successful as the windows phone OS that started it.
- arca_vorago 9y agoIf anyone trusts microsoft right now after the past year or two worth of things we've learned I highly doubt their dedication to a free and open source vision of the future. I actually have a hard time beleiving some of these comments are even organic... (web and server devs are going to migrate to windows!). What world do these people live in? It's like people live in fantasy land and have forgotten the 90's truth of MS. Embrace. Extend. Extinguish. RMS was and is right. Either the user controls the program or the program controls the user. Microsoft has shown they are only interested in controlling the user, and not in giving the user control. I say this as a senior sysadmin who has dealt with every aspect of their OS's in production for a long time, and I'm fed up with it. Honestly I think Win8/10 was the final straw for me, for what it's worth. I've since moved completely off windows to gnu+linux, despite the rough points such as gaming. It's been a freeing experience I wish more people had the guts to be a part of. I'm also heavily considering refusing to support windows systems in general, something I think we should all consider.
- oblio 9y agoI don't trust Microsoft. But they're less evil than Apple, look at Apple is doing with its locked garden (no GPL, only one browser engine allowed, no JITing except for their Javascript engine, development only on their platform, etc., etc.). On top of this, Microsoft is a smaller fish these days. They've lost mobile, probably forever. They're behind in search, ads, cloud, etc. So they're, maybe not toothless, but definitely less harmful than they were in the 90's. For EEE they need to be able to extinguish. They can't extinguish Linux or OSS now, it's basically impossible.
- Sephr 9y ago> I don't trust Microsoft. But they're less evil than Apple, look at Apple is doing with its locked garden (no GPL, only one browser engine allowed, no JITing except for their Javascript engine, development only on their platform, etc., etc.). Hate to break it to you, but the Microsoft Store has the same limitations regarding browser engines as Apple's iOS App Store.
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- ChuckMcM 9y agoI wonder if package maintainers will be able to use this as a way to test their packages on multiple distributions from a single test system. That would be pretty cool. I continue to be impressed with the progress the WSL team has made. The usable open source development environment on top of a kernel that can correctly drive all the various peripheral in the box is so very useful to me.
- dredmorbius 9y agoThat's nothing you can't already do with VMs, and avoiding vendor lock-in.
- ChuckMcM 9y agoActually it is different. The difference might not matter in some cases, and in other cases it will. Running on a VM means running on emulated devices, running in a Userland host means running on native devices. WSL is to windows as Wine is to Linux. A really trivial example is the buffer cache. On a Linux kernel it will take big chunks of memory to buffer disk blocks that it has read and dirtied. When run in a VM it continues to have that behavior so for a given disk you have two sets of disk caches, one in the VM and one in the host kernel. Twice the cache with half the management smarts.
- dredmorbius 9y agoI'm not arguing that VMs vs API compatibility layers aren't different, but that the specific testbed case you'd mentioned of emulations on a single host is nothing novel. A compatabilty layer generally takes away the kernel's role. Is that the case here?
- ChuckMcM 9y agoGenerally packages are concerned about interactions in 'user land' and the package manager of the distro. By not carrying around multiple copies of the kernel and its internal data structures this compatibility layer provides a better solution (in terms of resource utilization) for working with several different distributions on a single system than the VM approach does.
- kej 9y agoYou can do a lot of this already with this tool [1] that uses the images on Docker Hub to replace the contents of the lxss folder. It's a little clunky but worked well enough for my limited needs. [1] https://github.com/RoliSoft/WSL-Distribution-Switcher https://github.com/RoliSoft/WSL-Distribution-Switcher
- znedw 9y agoFingers crossed for FUSE support soon, sorely needed IMO.
- tjpnz 9y agoI still find it funny that people claim that they code on a Mac because it's flavor of Unix is somehow close to Linux. There's an ocean of differences between the two and I'm getting tired of people who perpetuate the false sense of security that because they're coding on macOS that they'll be fine when they deploy to a Linux environment. WSL is starting to look like the better option for those who for whatever reason can't develop for Linux in a Linux environment.
- j_m_b 9y agoAs much as I wish this could be compared to what Apple did with MacOS, it's not an apt comparison. Microsoft is essentially bolting on a Linux distro whereas Apple rebuilt MacOS from the ground-up using NeXTSTEP. What Microsoft is doing is more akin to something like Cygwin, except Microsoft is developing it and you can choose your distro. You might have better integration between Windows and Linux, but it's hardly a rethink. I would really like to see a commercial grade UNIX alternative to Mac brought to us by Microsoft, but it doesn't appear they are headed in that direction.
- eriknstr 9y agoSomeone on /r/linux said, and I agree, "it's like putting sugar in your cup full of piss".
- Thev00d00 9y agoIm only interested in Gentoo!