11 ms·

I abstain from food between 8PM and 12PM Monday - Friday, adjusting for training schedules and such. It really helps me keep my GI tract clear, reduces inflamma

by iplaw 9y ago

I abstain from food between 8PM and 12PM Monday - Friday, adjusting for training schedules and such. It really helps me keep my GI tract clear, reduces inflammation, resulted in weight loss, etc. without any effect on my cycling fitness. IF (or IMF as some people call it) is amazing.

taneq 9y ago
That's a really fancy way to say "I skip breakfast".
tptacek 9y ago
I've fasted from ~8P to ~3P every day for coming up on 2 years and apart from making me more mindful of what I eat and drastically reducing my appetite I've experienced basically no other health benefits. IF is increasingly well studied and it is not especially amazing. (I like it a lot. Just saying.)
- ahh 9y ago
  How much do you work out? I like IF a lot too, but when I'm in a heavily active phase of my life--say lifting 3x week, climbing 1x, jiujitsu 3x, and full on dance rehearsals 3x a week--I find I start to crumble unless I eat more to keep fueled.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    I was 5x5 when I started, for about 6 months, then hurt my ankle and don't do much more than walk a couple miles now. I worked out in fasted state and then would eat shortly after, because I'd be so ravenous that I could eat just protein and still enjoy the meal. I should get back to lifting (I'm just lazy), and it's possible that some of the other purported IF effects would kick in if I did so --- but the literature isn't encouraging, at least what I've read (I may be reading the wrong stuff!). I should add: I'm in pretty terrible shape! I joked on Twitter about how, in the post-AHCA US, my wife Erin will have trouble getting insurance despite her constant exercise and diet regime, while I, subsisting on pork fat, nicotine, and whiskey, will have no trouble. I mean, I eat a green bean here and there, but for the most part I'm not joking. :) I don't have a lot of health objectives with IF; it's just mostly painless and imposes some structure over what I eat and when I have to take time out of my day to eat.
  - iplaw 9y ago
    I ride 6 days a week for 1 to 5 hours per ride. 4 training rides, 2 recovery rides, and one off day per week. In terms of energy expenditure, it averages 700-900 calories/hour. A weeknight training crit and/or weekend races often replace the training days mid-season, and the schedule is tweaked for peaking at my A events. For major events, I'll eat differently. But for general training, I am fine fasting until lunch.
- ianai 9y ago
  What's the trick? I wake up starving. If I go to bed starving I sleep horribly and eventually wake up to eat.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    My understanding is that it doesn't work the same way for everyone. My theory is just that if you're insulin sensitive, then concentrating your eating to one small part of the day levels your blood sugar and hormones out for the rest of the day. My experience is: once I start eating during a day, I will be hungry for the rest of the day. If I just don't eat, I basically don't ever get hungry: I'll know it's time to eat when I start getting headaches and dizziness.
    - taneq 9y ago
      That's why you shouldn't skip breakfast entirely when you're dieting (at least that's what I've read). The stomach 'wakes up' when you first eat something, and uses more energy from that point on. If you eat something small, you'll feel hungry for more of the morning - because the extra activity from your stomach puts you in energy debt.
    - jcrites 9y ago
      > My experience is: once I start eating during a day, I will be hungry for the rest of the day. If I just don't eat, I basically don't ever get hungry Same experience for me. I wake up late in the morning and it's common for me to fast all day until the evening. I find that if I have breakfast or lunch, then I'm hungry throughout the day, and require several more meals to feel satiated. If I wake up and have only coffee, then I feel OK until the evening meal. Strange how the body works.
      - mod 9y ago
        I'm in this boat as well. Usually awake for ~6 hours before eating, and do not ever feel hungry in the morning, ever. That's not to say I can't wolf down a big breakfast, though... Ever try bulletproof coffee? I had a pretty good experience with it. Especially because I don't like coffee black, and with bulletproof I was able to have coffee and still not add any sugars.
- agentgt 9y ago
  I do the same as well. It pretty much has changed my life. The only thing I have noticed is that it seems not work well for females (my wife is annoyed about that). Also strangely my blood sugar has been above normal lately which is strange because I don't eat a carb heavy diet and I have never had blood sugar problems. Last time it was checked it was ~105 mg/dl or so (and I was fasted of course). I have had some theories about this but curious if anyone else seen this.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    I thought the literature suggested it worked better for women.
    - agentgt 9y ago
      I'm basing this on my experience and numerous conversation with others which albeit is anecdotal and sort of worthless. A quick googling shows mixed "feelings" (I stress feelings because I haven't seen/found an adequate reference yet). Maybe later I will investigate it.
  - harigov 9y ago
    Interestingly, I have a similar problem. I eat low carb diet with an even protein and fat mix. However, my fasting blood sugar level still seems to linger around 100.
  - mrfusion 9y ago
    What's your theory about the blood sugar? I have the same issue. Hovers around 100 when not eating. What's weird is it drops to 85 within 20 minutes after eating a meal. I'm not sure what that could mean.
    - joshgel 9y ago
      blood sugar is mostly regulated by hormones: glucagon and insulin. Not really by what you just ate. Hence why you can go days without eating and still have a normal blood sugar. Eating causes your pancreatic beta cells to release insulin (in response to elevations in blood glucose). Diabetics have spikes in their blood sugar right after they eat because they have impaired insulin sensitivity and so their tissues (muscles mainly) don't take up the sugar in the blood (a process mediated by insulin receptors).
- Swizec 9y ago
  I have the opposite experience. My body and mind function best with regular small meals every 3 or 4 hours. With that regime I have constant energy without ups and lulls. It's great. When I do go too long without eating, I feel fine and I don't feel particularly hungry. But people around me say that I become uncommunicative, quarelsome, and that I tend to just kind of sit there and stare in front of me unmovingly. People particularly notice this at group dinners/brunches. Before food, I reply with 1-word answers and mostly don't engage in conversation. After food I'm the life of the party. So yeah, fasting does not work for me. But I do tend to have very small breakfast. At 10am regardless of when i wake up.
  - fanf2 9y ago
    Classic example of being low-level "hangry": hungry/angry. Beware of it in children when simple lack of food can spill over into full-blown tantrums!
  - mixmastamyk 9y ago
    Might be eating too many carbs, which spike blood sugar, and tend to produce the symptoms you mention. Still, don't need to fast all day to fix the problem.
    - Swizec 9y ago
      Funnily only about 30% of my calories come from carbs. Except on half marathon days. I can't digest enough food to recover from a 2000 calorie run without carbs I've tried going below 30% carbs but it makes me unstoppably crave chocolate.
      - mixmastamyk 9y ago
        I eat the ghirardelli dark chocolate (72 and 86%) often, it is healthy and low sugar. It's not the enemy. ;) https://www.ghirardelli.com/chocolate-and-gifts/flavors/dark-chocolate https://www.ghirardelli.com/chocolate-and-gifts/flavors/dark... There are similar European varieties of course.
- venning 9y ago
  Is that time a typo? Are you saying that there is only a 5 hour block of the day when you eat? (From 3pm to 8pm.)
  - iplaw 9y ago
    I eat in an 8 hour block. It started years ago when I wanted to hit "race weight". I stopped eating anything after 8PM (usually 7PM) so I wouldn't go to bed with food on my stomach. I slept better, and I am active after eating (walk with the family around the neighborhood), which reduces storage of calories. I was already skipping breakfast most days due to convenience.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    Correct. That's what IF means.
    - nicklovescode 9y ago
      ^ IF == Intermittent Fasting
  - nommm-nommm 9y ago
    I'm not the person you replied to but I'll churp in. I only eat once a day, at dinner time, so I eat in about a half hour block a day. I've been doing it for years. It's not really that odd once you get used to it. My appetite and food consumption has decreased dramatically and I am full much quicker. My food bill has decreased and it's very, very freeing to only have to worry about eating once a day. It's absolutely amazing for me though certainly not for everyone.
- kasey_junk 9y ago
  I've experimented with IF a few times and the big drawbacks for me are I have to choose between eating after I excercise (in the morning) and having dinner with my family. The former means I'm ravenous the latter is a trade off I don't like for bonding reasons.
tdicola 9y ago
Train while fasted, you'll feel amazing trust me. I do a 16:8 daily fast too and do regular HIIT and strength training while fasted (in the morning). In the fasted state your body is producing more adrenaline and HGH which helps with performance and gains. It also trains your muscles to burn fat instead of sugar (since there's none available), which is incredible for endurance (run a half marathon or more on just water? no problem).
- vldx 9y ago
  I think training in completely fasted state is ok, but not optimal; you should be cautious not go dogmatic regarding that, as at given point it might halt your progress. From my relatively modest experience (as former client of Martin Berkhan) - BCAA and/or MCT oil prior the workout might yield substantial positives.
JoshMnem 9y ago
That's an interesting idea. I've been on calorie restricting diets non-stop for over a year with good results. My latest experiment is a kind of limited alternate day caloric restriction. I was having great results with full ADF (toggling food intake at 4pm each day), but I started to feel strange after a week or two, so the new diet is a little less extreme. I might try something like your schedule, if the current plan doesn't produce results. If anyone is experimenting with calorie restriction or intermittent fasting near Berkeley, send me a message via my profile. I'm working on some self-tracking experiments with a group of people.

by iplaw 9y ago

taneq 9y ago

That's a really fancy way to say "I skip breakfast".

tptacek 9y ago

I've fasted from ~8P to ~3P every day for coming up on 2 years and apart from making me more mindful of what I eat and drastically reducing my appetite I've experienced basically no other health benefits. IF is increasingly well studied and it is not especially amazing. (I like it a lot. Just saying.)

ahh 9y ago
How much do you work out? I like IF a lot too, but when I'm in a heavily active phase of my life--say lifting 3x week, climbing 1x, jiujitsu 3x, and full on dance rehearsals 3x a week--I find I start to crumble unless I eat more to keep fueled.
- tptacek 9y ago
  I was 5x5 when I started, for about 6 months, then hurt my ankle and don't do much more than walk a couple miles now. I worked out in fasted state and then would eat shortly after, because I'd be so ravenous that I could eat just protein and still enjoy the meal. I should get back to lifting (I'm just lazy), and it's possible that some of the other purported IF effects would kick in if I did so --- but the literature isn't encouraging, at least what I've read (I may be reading the wrong stuff!). I should add: I'm in pretty terrible shape! I joked on Twitter about how, in the post-AHCA US, my wife Erin will have trouble getting insurance despite her constant exercise and diet regime, while I, subsisting on pork fat, nicotine, and whiskey, will have no trouble. I mean, I eat a green bean here and there, but for the most part I'm not joking. :) I don't have a lot of health objectives with IF; it's just mostly painless and imposes some structure over what I eat and when I have to take time out of my day to eat.
- iplaw 9y ago
  I ride 6 days a week for 1 to 5 hours per ride. 4 training rides, 2 recovery rides, and one off day per week. In terms of energy expenditure, it averages 700-900 calories/hour. A weeknight training crit and/or weekend races often replace the training days mid-season, and the schedule is tweaked for peaking at my A events. For major events, I'll eat differently. But for general training, I am fine fasting until lunch.
ianai 9y ago
What's the trick? I wake up starving. If I go to bed starving I sleep horribly and eventually wake up to eat.
- tptacek 9y ago
  My understanding is that it doesn't work the same way for everyone. My theory is just that if you're insulin sensitive, then concentrating your eating to one small part of the day levels your blood sugar and hormones out for the rest of the day. My experience is: once I start eating during a day, I will be hungry for the rest of the day. If I just don't eat, I basically don't ever get hungry: I'll know it's time to eat when I start getting headaches and dizziness.
  - taneq 9y ago
    That's why you shouldn't skip breakfast entirely when you're dieting (at least that's what I've read). The stomach 'wakes up' when you first eat something, and uses more energy from that point on. If you eat something small, you'll feel hungry for more of the morning - because the extra activity from your stomach puts you in energy debt.
  - jcrites 9y ago
    > My experience is: once I start eating during a day, I will be hungry for the rest of the day. If I just don't eat, I basically don't ever get hungry Same experience for me. I wake up late in the morning and it's common for me to fast all day until the evening. I find that if I have breakfast or lunch, then I'm hungry throughout the day, and require several more meals to feel satiated. If I wake up and have only coffee, then I feel OK until the evening meal. Strange how the body works.
    - mod 9y ago
      I'm in this boat as well. Usually awake for ~6 hours before eating, and do not ever feel hungry in the morning, ever. That's not to say I can't wolf down a big breakfast, though... Ever try bulletproof coffee? I had a pretty good experience with it. Especially because I don't like coffee black, and with bulletproof I was able to have coffee and still not add any sugars.
agentgt 9y ago
I do the same as well. It pretty much has changed my life. The only thing I have noticed is that it seems not work well for females (my wife is annoyed about that). Also strangely my blood sugar has been above normal lately which is strange because I don't eat a carb heavy diet and I have never had blood sugar problems. Last time it was checked it was ~105 mg/dl or so (and I was fasted of course). I have had some theories about this but curious if anyone else seen this.
- tptacek 9y ago
  I thought the literature suggested it worked better for women.
  - agentgt 9y ago
    I'm basing this on my experience and numerous conversation with others which albeit is anecdotal and sort of worthless. A quick googling shows mixed "feelings" (I stress feelings because I haven't seen/found an adequate reference yet). Maybe later I will investigate it.
- harigov 9y ago
  Interestingly, I have a similar problem. I eat low carb diet with an even protein and fat mix. However, my fasting blood sugar level still seems to linger around 100.
- mrfusion 9y ago
  What's your theory about the blood sugar? I have the same issue. Hovers around 100 when not eating. What's weird is it drops to 85 within 20 minutes after eating a meal. I'm not sure what that could mean.
  - joshgel 9y ago
    blood sugar is mostly regulated by hormones: glucagon and insulin. Not really by what you just ate. Hence why you can go days without eating and still have a normal blood sugar. Eating causes your pancreatic beta cells to release insulin (in response to elevations in blood glucose). Diabetics have spikes in their blood sugar right after they eat because they have impaired insulin sensitivity and so their tissues (muscles mainly) don't take up the sugar in the blood (a process mediated by insulin receptors).
Swizec 9y ago
I have the opposite experience. My body and mind function best with regular small meals every 3 or 4 hours. With that regime I have constant energy without ups and lulls. It's great. When I do go too long without eating, I feel fine and I don't feel particularly hungry. But people around me say that I become uncommunicative, quarelsome, and that I tend to just kind of sit there and stare in front of me unmovingly. People particularly notice this at group dinners/brunches. Before food, I reply with 1-word answers and mostly don't engage in conversation. After food I'm the life of the party. So yeah, fasting does not work for me. But I do tend to have very small breakfast. At 10am regardless of when i wake up.
- fanf2 9y ago
  Classic example of being low-level "hangry": hungry/angry. Beware of it in children when simple lack of food can spill over into full-blown tantrums!
- mixmastamyk 9y ago
  Might be eating too many carbs, which spike blood sugar, and tend to produce the symptoms you mention. Still, don't need to fast all day to fix the problem.
  - Swizec 9y ago
    Funnily only about 30% of my calories come from carbs. Except on half marathon days. I can't digest enough food to recover from a 2000 calorie run without carbs I've tried going below 30% carbs but it makes me unstoppably crave chocolate.
    - mixmastamyk 9y ago
      I eat the ghirardelli dark chocolate (72 and 86%) often, it is healthy and low sugar. It's not the enemy. ;) https://www.ghirardelli.com/chocolate-and-gifts/flavors/dark-chocolate https://www.ghirardelli.com/chocolate-and-gifts/flavors/dark... There are similar European varieties of course.
venning 9y ago
Is that time a typo? Are you saying that there is only a 5 hour block of the day when you eat? (From 3pm to 8pm.)
- iplaw 9y ago
  I eat in an 8 hour block. It started years ago when I wanted to hit "race weight". I stopped eating anything after 8PM (usually 7PM) so I wouldn't go to bed with food on my stomach. I slept better, and I am active after eating (walk with the family around the neighborhood), which reduces storage of calories. I was already skipping breakfast most days due to convenience.
- tptacek 9y ago
  Correct. That's what IF means.
  - nicklovescode 9y ago
    ^ IF == Intermittent Fasting
- nommm-nommm 9y ago
  I'm not the person you replied to but I'll churp in. I only eat once a day, at dinner time, so I eat in about a half hour block a day. I've been doing it for years. It's not really that odd once you get used to it. My appetite and food consumption has decreased dramatically and I am full much quicker. My food bill has decreased and it's very, very freeing to only have to worry about eating once a day. It's absolutely amazing for me though certainly not for everyone.
kasey_junk 9y ago
I've experimented with IF a few times and the big drawbacks for me are I have to choose between eating after I excercise (in the morning) and having dinner with my family. The former means I'm ravenous the latter is a trade off I don't like for bonding reasons.

tdicola 9y ago

Train while fasted, you'll feel amazing trust me. I do a 16:8 daily fast too and do regular HIIT and strength training while fasted (in the morning). In the fasted state your body is producing more adrenaline and HGH which helps with performance and gains. It also trains your muscles to burn fat instead of sugar (since there's none available), which is incredible for endurance (run a half marathon or more on just water? no problem).

vldx 9y ago
I think training in completely fasted state is ok, but not optimal; you should be cautious not go dogmatic regarding that, as at given point it might halt your progress. From my relatively modest experience (as former client of Martin Berkhan) - BCAA and/or MCT oil prior the workout might yield substantial positives.

JoshMnem 9y ago

That's an interesting idea. I've been on calorie restricting diets non-stop for over a year with good results. My latest experiment is a kind of limited alternate day caloric restriction. I was having great results with full ADF (toggling food intake at 4pm each day), but I started to feel strange after a week or two, so the new diet is a little less extreme. I might try something like your schedule, if the current plan doesn't produce results. If anyone is experimenting with calorie restriction or intermittent fasting near Berkeley, send me a message via my profile. I'm working on some self-tracking experiments with a group of people.