10 ms·
Windows 10 S won't let you change the default browser or switch to Google search
- baldfat 9y agoI think this is why Valve and Gabe were so forceful in developing Steam OS. This is the end fo the road for all outside businesses like Valve and other elevator systems. Microsoft has been doing so good community wise and I think this is the most evil thing they could have done. They are trying to be a walled garden. edit: deleted one word and spelling on one word
- thatswrong0 9y agoAll of the (mild) interest I had in that new Windows laptop evaporated when I saw that's what came loaded on it by default. Sure, it's just a $50 upgrade on top a $1000+ machine to get a legitimate copy of Windows.. but something just irks the hell out of me that they think that this is a cool thing to do. Each time I think they've changed, they make it clear that they haven't
- Arizhel 9y ago>Each time I think they've changed, they make it clear that they haven't They've been acting evil like this for 40 years now; what makes you think they're ever going to change?
- erikpukinskis 9y agoI remember the old times, and am quick to remind of what they did to Netscape, Samba, et al. But to answer your question... New blood, and fear. Gates is gone, and Ballmer was humiliated by the iPhone. Management now has to be in constant fear of ceding more ground in the consumer space. And they know that as consumer goes, so goes business... 20 years later. Many of Microsoft's recent moves are heartening. Supporting Mono officially. Implementing web standards quickly. Backing off this signed app stuff in Win10. MS has never had as much commercial pressure as they have now. They can't afford to alienate their niche supporters they way they could when they were the de facto everything. That gave me hope. Of course old habits die hard, but I don't think it's impossible for a company to evolve. IBM did. Apple did.
- vezycash 9y agoYou're right about fear. People who don't admit their fear, do something to mask the fear. MS is masking their fear of being ridiculed for ugliness by focusing unduly on design. The result has been "form over function." And now, MS pays lip service to productivity. They also focus intently on security to avoid being ridiculed for unsecure software (viruses, bugs, crashes compared to Mac and linux). The result? Closed Windows Phone and Windows Apps which unfortunately doomed both; and forced updates with intrusive data collection. Last but most important, MS's is as fast as a tortoise compared to Google, Apple, Amazon... They can't seem to make up their minds on features, app and OS design - hence the multiple reboots of Music turned Groove; Universal apps/Metro apps/UWP; Wp7,8,8.1,10->?, skype/message app, Metro skype and now UWP skype. For a company which built itself on compatibility, the constant change in direction is death by a thousand cuts.
- JayHost 9y ago"Each time I think they've changed, they make it clear that they haven't" Stockholm Syndrome. "...something just irks the hell out of me that they think that this is a cool thing to do." Yeah, restricted freedom and anti-democratic business practices irks a whole lot of us. :)
- shrimp_emoji 9y agoBut, when Apple does it, people like it, don't they? Microsoft's just been trying to be Apple ever since the Zune.
- brianwawok 9y agoI just dumped my last Windows pc. All ubuntu. There are finally some good ubuntu laptops. Put your money where your values are.
- ximeng 9y agoI have one Ubuntu one Windows at home, Windows made me update again today (last time a week or two ago) - took forty minutes. Next PC will have Ubuntu on it too.
- vezycash 9y agoTurn off the update service. And there's three settings to make sure it doesn't reactivate itself. I held of updates for two years. Long story short: you can still decide when you want to update Windows - 10 steps instead of one.
- walterbell 9y agoDoes that work on all versions of Windows 10?
- vezycash 9y ago
- belltaco 9y agoIt is exactly like ChromeOS, and focused on education as well and probably won't sell as much as them anyway. >Recent numbers from consulting firm Futuresource paint a similar picture, with Google commanding 58 percent of U.S. K-12 schools. Windows is in second with around 22 percent and the combined impact of MacOS and iOS are close behind at 19 percent. It’s a rapidly shifting landscape. Three years earlier, Apple’s products represented nearly half of devices being shipped to U.S. classrooms Can students install anything like Steam on Chromebooks or iPads without jailbreaking them? It feels like once people see 'Microsoft' in the headline they lose all sense of perspective and automatically scream murder but Google and Apple get a complete free pass to do whatever lockdown they want.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- embik 9y ago> Can students install anything like Steam on Chromebooks without jailbreaking them? Turning on "developer mode" isn't exactly jailbreaking, so yes, they have access to the underlying Linux and can even run a Linux desktop environment of their choice on top of ChromeOS. They can't install Steam because that only supports x86 but you can't blame ChromeOS for that. I'm pretty sure you won't be able to do that with Windows S, so, no, it's not exactly like ChromeOS. edit: See http://www.dudleymediagroup.com/Detail/id/how-to-game-with-steam-on-a-google-chromebook-2335 http://www.dudleymediagroup.com/Detail/id/how-to-game-with-s...
- walterbell 9y agoIf Microsoft starts a me-too race to the bottom of a walled well of surveillance capitalism, they will squander their PC heritage and create a new market for commercially open operating systems. It may take a decade or more, but if Microsoft sidelines Win32, the market will find an alternative. Hundreds of millions of Windows users will not be ignored and will not surrender commercial freedoms that Microsoft itself has proven technically possible.
- ksk 9y ago>They are trying to be a walled garden. How is that any different from Steam? Every major company today wants to be a walled garden controlled by proprietary systems. Its either that, or they wan't to be a subscription service or a toll booth. Its unfortunate, but simply selling software is going away..
- erikpukinskis 9y agoYour hardware isn't locked to Steam by default. You can install GOG or whatever for free.
- ksk 9y agoSteam is not an OS though. Is it a feature of Steam OS to allow multiple stores to be installed?
- baldfat 9y agoWalled Garden = How do you like the different browsers in Aoole's app store? Steam isn't a walled garden, because you don't have to use Steam. You can use gog.com or humblebundle.com or gamersgate.com. Heck you can buy a game on Steam and gog.com will have the game for you on galaxy. You can buy humble bundles and get steam keys. Steam is a store and you can buy the same exact products and use them on your computer. Windows 10 S you have one store and can only buy it from one place.
- ksk 9y ago>Walled Garden = How do you like the different browsers in Aoole's app store? That's as arbitrary a definition as any. Walled garden = A hyper-controlled environment where you have zero control over access to content and services. If steam is "just a store" why do I need steam installed _AT ALL_ after I purchase the game? Why can't I just run the binary? After all, I paid for it. Next, Valve can ban my entire steam account at any point in time for any reason, without any recourse, and kick me outside the 'garden' and locking me out of every single game that I purchased. They have complete control over who gets to play in their garden and how they play. Now, I happen to like _SOME_ of the things Valve does, but I don't kid myself into thinking its something it isn't. >Windows 10 S you have one store and can only buy it from one place. Steam is an application, not an OS. Now I wonder if Valve will allow Microsoft to have a store on Steam OS. That would be an apples-to-apples comparison.
- tsomctl 9y agoApparently, their lawyers forgot about this small lawsuit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....
- criddell 9y agoThat was 20 years ago. Microsoft's market position is different and there's a different DOJ. I think they're safe from the government. The market, though, may say otherwise. I would bet Windows 10 S is a flop in the US.
- steventhedev 9y agoThey will likely get pushback from the EU, where they were slapped significantly harder back then as well. And it will be a "great success" with near 100% conversion rate because the upgrade will be forced on everyone.
- Arizhel 9y ago>They will likely get pushback from the EU, where they were slapped significantly harder back then as well. No, they won't. There's 3 different versions of Windows 10 now: Home, S, and Pro (and Enterprise for big corps). People who don't like the limitations of S are free to buy one of the other two versions, and they'll probably even an easy way to "upgrade" to Pro for $$$. Over in Europe, if that's not good enough, they'll just eliminate S and stick with the other two versions, and let only Americans get suckered by the S version.
- scholia 9y ago> let only Americans get suckered by the S version. As in, "suckered into getting a version of Windows 10 Pro for $50"? The upgrade option is already there in 10S, and it only takes a couple of seconds to authorize it.
- zbuttram 9y ago
- mgamache 9y agoThe "S" is for Sucks Okay really, it jealousy of all the app store and ad revenue they are missing out on.
- GurnB 9y agoYes, but ONLY if you get the Suck via the new Microsoft store.
- onedognight 9y agoDoes ChromeOS allow you to not use Chrome?
- erikpukinskis 9y agoThat's not a fair comparison. That's like asking if Windows allows you to not use Windows. Chrome let's you use arbitrary apps not selected by Google; web apps. These apps are first class citizens in the UI with all of the same OS access as Google's apps.
- mattnewton 9y agoIt does let you use Bing and office 365.
- mirsadm 9y agoThat wasn't the question. Can you run Firefox on Chrome OS?
- tdb7893 9y agoIsn't the play store coming to Chrome OS? I think that would mean that you would be able to run Firefox
- icebraining 9y agoYes, actually :) http://www.techrepublic.com/article/4-alternatives-to-the-chrome-browser-on-chrome-os/ http://www.techrepublic.com/article/4-alternatives-to-the-ch...
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- ksk 9y agoAs an android app - yes if Google decides to bless it. Until Google arbitrarily changes their mind, as they often do.
- kevin2r 9y ago
- mattkevan 9y agoIt's funny. Apple get a lot of (fairly justified) stick for their walled garden approach – but if they launched a pricey laptop with a version of macOS locked to the App Store, the Internet would collectively lose its mind.
- doubt_me 9y agoAnd buy it anyway
- netheril96 9y agoDevelopers definitely won't buy a MacBook walled by App Store. All the Unix utilities would be gone, as would be the usefulness of a MacBook.
- ksk 9y agoWhy would the UNIX tools be gone? They're part of the OS itself !
- mgkimsal 9y agoEverything else that you install (via brew, ports, etc) wouldn't be allowed (or... that's the thinking if it were locked down).
- netheril96 9y agoFirst of all, the Unix tools are not part of the OS. They are bundled with the OS, but definitely not necessary. Second of all, in a walled garden macOS, you could not have most of the Unix tools, because they break the sandboxes.
- ksk 9y agoThat is easily settled though. Apple considers them part of the OS, and so they are. Its as simple as that. >Second of all, in a walled garden macOS, you could not have most of the Unix tools, because they break the sandboxes. Which tool breaks what sandbox? I think you're conflating root access with userland UNIX tools.
- amaks 9y agoWelcome to the good ole Microsoft.
- type0 9y agoWhat does S stands for really? Is it service? If so then finally MS recognizing that they were pushing OS as a service with Windows 10 all along, it must have been their plan from the beginning.
- GurnB 9y agoI assume Surface.
- MekaiGS 9y agoProbably S for Store
- LeoPanthera 9y agoMicrosoft seemed to imply that it was "Streamlined" but I don't think it's official.
- matz1 9y agoStupid
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- my123 9y agoWindows RT successor. S is the letter between R and T.
- protomyth 9y agoIf all they really cared about was security, they would allow other reputable stores (e.g. Steam) to be installed by the person administering the machines. If they had allowed be to setup a "store" on a Windows Server for our custom software required by grants and the government for various things then I would have ordered quite a few Windows 10 S machines in place of some of our normal orders.
- scholia 9y agoHow hard would it be to convert your custom software to UWP apps that could be deployed from the Windows Store?
- protomyth 9y agoPretty much impossible for me to do as the software is 3rd party. Heck, one still needs to run on Windows 2008 and another just stopped requiring IE6. [edit]my own programs are macOS and iOS - so no experience on Windows programming in 10 years[/edit]
- scholia 9y agoSo many US schools use Apple products and/or Chromebooks and/or Android, I would have thought that approach was already unsustainable. It can hardly be essential software, can it?
- protomyth 9y agoWe are fine with Apple (enterprise deployment of custom stuff is a known scenario). I would expect a lot of schools wouldn't have a Chromebook problem[1] given elementary schools are different beasts than BIE schools or colleges. We have some additional software because of agreements related to text books and training videos plus specific contractor provided software for grants. 1) well except for one they might not be aware of https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/guide-chromebook-privacy-settings-students https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/guide-chromebook-priva...
- arcosdev 9y agoSo they don't want to sell any of these?
- thr0waway1239 9y agoAnd just like that, they doubled the marketshare of Bing from 0.0003% to 0.0006%.
- zuron7 9y agoWell, reports suggest Bing is more in the range of ~20% market share. Quite commendable.
- Keyframe 9y agoIf we pretend Windows 10 S doesn't exist and the machines cost $50 more - it's a sweet direction. Windows S / Windows Store, Android and ChromeOS / Google Play Store, iOS / App Store - those are comparisons.. and honestly, I don't care about either of those. Maybe Android. I've learned from WP and its store and platform's and store's extreme failure not to trust Microsoft to do it right anytime soon. Windows Store was (is still?) littered with crap. I also don't trust Microsoft on market delivery considering I got in touch with their online chat support and asked where I can buy Surface Studio in EU. Answer was that they don't sell it in Europe. Nice. Thanks and bye. Kind of like with Razer. My money is off the table for you guys.
- jadbox 9y agoWhat's wrong with Razor?
- Keyframe 9y agoTry getting one in Europe - contrary to what you may read on their press releases that you can.
- redorb 9y agoI agree the 1299 version with 8gb ram and the i5 seems like a great value. I would imagine in 2 years they'll be $999 or so. the 14 hour battery life is great too / but / the first thing anyone should do is upgrade to windows 10 pro
- pfranz 9y agoThe problem is that friends and family will just buy whatever is cheapest. Then they're always bugging you because they ran out of space because Apple was still selling 16GB phones in 2016.
- Keyframe 9y agoThey don't bug you beforehand with 'should I buy this'?
- lawl 9y agoSay hello to the new microsoft, exactly the same as old microsoft.
- ksk 9y agoI'd rephrase that to 'exactly the same as new Google/Apple' All of today's computing platforms come with shiny shackles. I guess MS doesn't want to miss out on that.
- lawl 9y agoA) "But mom, all my friends are doing it too" is s pretty bad excuse. B) I'm having no troubles setting up firefox as my default browser with whatever search engine I want for all apps on android.
- ksk 9y agoI'd say its more like mom telling billy to go do what his buddies are doing since its making them mad cash.
- frik 9y agoThey are as bad as in the 1990s. The 2000s after Bill and the lawsuits, they were softer. Windows 10 and the whole debacle about phone home data (sending microphone audio, webcam pics, keystrokes) and now this closed eco system on their desktop/notebook monopoly asks for another Antitrust lawsuit that splits the company in a Office and other company pieces.
- oldgun 9y agoIs it going to be like the Internet Explorer anti-trust lawsuit all over again? Just when I think MS is on its way to becoming a much cooler company than the old one that locks down users and deprives them of freedom. It's good ole M$.
- snupples 9y agoIt wouldn't even be THAT bad (except maybe in principle) if Bing wasn't the worst search engine and Edge wasn't the worst browser. It's like they want their customers to suffer.
- joe_the_user 9y ago"Actually, every ring-builder aims for a one-ring. Thwarted once, do they change their attitude? Oh, they learn their lessons with their failures (which they think of as 'near successes'). But what they learn is not what you'd like to imagine"
- erikpukinskis 9y agoWhat is this a quote from?
- joe_the_user 9y agoNo source, just quotes to give the feeling of fable. IE, What Gandalf or Obi Wan perhaps should have said.
- anotheryou 9y agoWhere they not at some point forced to allow alternative default browsers or something? (I might be wrong)
- kabdib 9y agoEuropean browser-related fines in 10, 9, 8 . . . We had a saying in Xbox that you didn't get to become a Microsoft VP until you'd cost the company a billion dollars with some boneheaded mistake. (Data: The Xbox 360's lack of a pad for its DVD drive, the Kin phone -- which was actually a $2B mistake). I guess someone wants to be promoted.
- ihuman 9y agoWhat do you mean by a pad for the 360's DVD drive?
- metalliqaz 9y agoProbably vibration dampening. The drive was finicky as hell.
- kabdib 9y agoA pad to prevent media scratches when the disc in the 12X drive started to wobble. Quite a few people lost games to this.
- infogulch 9y agoThe 360 was notorious for scratching disks. [1] [1]: https://www.geekwire.com/2016/xbox-360-scratched-discs-why-the-u-s-supreme-court-will-hear-the-case-nine-years-later/ https://www.geekwire.com/2016/xbox-360-scratched-discs-why-t...
- sfRattan 9y agoMy initial reaction was, "yeah, that was an awful D-Pad." Then I realized the reference was to the disk drive. Oh, well... Two promotions, then, according to the root comment's saying.
- nomercy400 9y agoMicrosoft offers a similar product with more freedom/features (ie. Windows 10). Also, Windows 10 S does not have a near-100% marketshare, so no monopoly there. I agree, it's stupid. But it does not warrant a fine.
- oblio 9y agoThis is stupid. Users will get a crippled default version. They will notice, cause they're not blind, and this will backfire. I'm not talking about techies here, but about plain ol' Joes. It's a bad business call.
- pritambaral 9y ago> cause they're not blind, and this will backfire. Or they will just pay the $50 and get full Windows 10? I can't say if it's a smart business decision, but at least they left a way out.
- zeven7 9y agoPay $50 for the privilege to use Google? Nobody's going to do that. They're just going to be mad and tell everyone it makes them use Bing.
- oblio 9y agoThe average Joe might not even notice that he's not searching with Google. However, he will notice that his Windows can't run Steam and his games on Steam and his collection of Win32 applications ;)
- overgryphon 9y agoPeople are more likely to notice the inability to install traditional Windows apps than what search engine they're using.
- CerealCooler 9y agoMicrosoft at its best. Or rather, at its usual.
- resoluteteeth 9y agoWindows S sort of makes sense in various ways: * It can replace the free licensing for cheap tablets which had fairly extreme hardware restrictions so normal laptops couldn't use it. These restrictions probably had the unfortunate effect of giving the impression that Windows was unusable on tablets because these devices had to have limited RAM to be eligible. * Now, they can give free or cheap licenses to devices with any specs, but get the payment for a full version later if the users want it. This way they can compete with higher-end chromebooks. * By preventing users who aren't tech savvy from installing junk that will clog up their system, they can actually give them a better experience. * They can give developers yet another reason to put their apps in the app store, even if just using their new conversion tool. Maybe there's still hope that people will actually use the app store! * Because the upgrade goes right to Pro, rather than Home, for $50, this actually isn't a bad deal for individuals who want Pro anyway. Currently I think that's actually more than a Home->Pro upgrade. I imagine they'll fix that, but even if either upgrade route is the same price, the OEM cost for the 10 S license should be cheaper or free so, it might be cheaper to buy a 10 S computer and upgrade. Still, from a user's perspective, Microsoft locking down the OS and trying to force people into the Windows store doesn't seem that reassuring, and if you can't use WSL I probably wouldn't want to use 10 S anyway. I might buy one of these laptops and install linux, though.
- scholia 9y agoThat's a decent, factual summary -- especially in the context of the ignorance and bigotry shown in so many other comments here. > Because the upgrade goes right to Pro, rather than Home, for $50, this actually isn't a bad deal for individuals who want Pro anyway. Yes. It's basically the Pro version of Windows because it needs to support the corporate-style installation, maintenance and control features needed in the education market (InTune etc). The switch to the Pro version is free to education. > Still, from a user's perspective, Microsoft locking down the OS and trying to force people into the Windows store doesn't seem that reassuring It's very reassuring compared with the hazards of downloading Windows software on the open web. I don't see a massive user revolt against the Apple, Google and Amazon app stores, do you?
- milge 9y agoI've been slow upgrading my Windows over the years. I stuck with XP Pro SP2 for a very long time. I wish I could still use it. Now I'm on Win7 and probably will be for awhile. It seems every other Windows version sucks. I'll let Microsoft try out their idiot moves while I stick with more mature releases.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- TheRealDunkirk 9y agoIsn't "unlocking" Windows 10 S to Pro for $50 like gaming companies shipping DLC with their product, and requiring you to unlock it with a code? Don't "we" hate that? Also, how can S purport to be faster when it's apparently 10 Pro sitting on the disk? Are there background services that don't get started until it's unlocked?
- scholia 9y agoThat's an interesting question. Windows 10 Pro is running two systems all the time: Win32 and Windows Runtime. UWP apps run in sandboxes under Windows Runtime, not in Win32. Presumably there are some benefits from this, but it depends how many parts of Windows itself use Win32. For example, the new Settings app runs in Windows Runtime but it still hands some things off to the old Control Panel, which is a Win32 program. I'd assume the eventual goal is to move everything to Windows Runtime, leaving Win32 to wither and eventually die, at least in the consumer market. I suspect enterprises are too slow to change for that to happen in business market. Bear in mind that UWP apps will run very happily on the ARM-based Windows laptops that will arrive late this year, whereas Win32 programs will use a Rosetta-type emulation.
- kyriakos 9y agohow is this different than iOS being stuck to safari ?
- bitmapbrother 9y agoI wonder where all of the "New Microsoft" supporters are? This is just Microsoft being Microsoft. They never changed, but I'm sure they'd like you to think they have. Not allowing a user to switch to another search engine is nefarious and insidious. But then, this is the old Microsoft after all.
- bitmapbrother 9y agoIncidentally, has anyone tried to change the default search engine in MS Edge? They make it extremely difficult to the novice user so much so I wonder if they just give up in frustration. Edge doesn't provide you with a default list of search engines like the major browsers do. Instead you're supposed to navigate to the search engine web page and then drill down to ADVANCED settings and make the search engine web page you're on the default search engine. I wonder how many psychologists they employed to come up with this anti user experience behavior in order to easily prevent the user from simply changing the search engine to what they really want. Additionally, the option to change search engines in Chrome is one click away in Settings. With Edge you need to drill down to Advanced Settings just to change the search engine.
- bitmapbrother 9y agoThe other browsers should respond by removing Bing as a search engine provider.