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I live in Europe. From my perspective going to US looks like going to some kind totalitarian country. First I have to got visa which is not automatically approv

I live in Europe. From my perspective going to US looks like going to some kind totalitarian country. First I have to got visa which is not automatically approved because I'm Polish not British. Then I have to go trough a lot of, mostly pointless, security checks, checking social accounts, interrogations, scans and manual personal revisions. On any stage of that I can be handcuffed and sent back to Europe for almost no reason. It's sad but from where I sits US starts to look like all of those countries they was fighting with "for the freedom".

louhike 9y ago
Yes, it feels strange but me and my girlfriend have decided it is not worth it to try to go to america on holidaysfor now because of all these difficulties.
collyw 9y ago
The UK seems to be trying its hardest to catch up.
- krtkush 9y ago
  India is going further and beyond[1]. [1] http://www.firstpost.com/india/aadhaar-mandatory-citizens-dont-have-absolute-right-on-their-body-privacy-argument-bogus-govt-tells-sc-3420398.html http://www.firstpost.com/india/aadhaar-mandatory-citizens-do...
  - TheArcane 9y ago
    This right wing wave is agaibst globalization. What do you expect?
- Yizahi 9y ago
  On the visa price front they already beat everyone else. 115$ for half year visa? Or 450$ for two years visa? Great.
  - te_chris 9y ago
    Walk in the park. I just got a Tier 1 (Exceptional Talent) visa. Total cost for mine and my partners (including flights home to NZ because, apparently, the world would end if people on working holiday visas were allowed to transition in-country)? £~5.5k
  - Markoff 9y ago
    that seem pretty reasonable compared to third world country like China where I had to pay like 110€ for yearly FAMILY visa, because why not charge husband of Chinese citizen visa (plus had to renew it each year like some newcomer student) and you can't even work with this visa anyway, according Chinese government you should be freeloading on your spouse now compare it with my wife in EU - 5 year residence permit for free, of course including work permit and also because she is taking care of our child she got free healthcare insurance
danieldk 9y ago
We had serious plans to go on holiday to the US this year. I have been in the US at least a dozen of times, and absolutely love the desert states, Oregon, and Washington. Entering the US was already a large hassle, but with Trump's travel bans, rumors of phone, laptop, and social media checks, we have decided to postpone our travel plans until the political/security climate improves. Semi-related: we were in the market for a new car. One of the factors we decided to go for a European car this time (we had a Ford Focus before) is that we'd like to support Trump America as little as possible. Before you say that this is overreacting, hear me out: the US belongs to US citizens. If you want this president, fine. But some of his policies, such as denying climate change and undermining journalism is going te have a large influence on the rest of us.
- ItendToDisagree 9y ago
  The majority of US citizens did not vote for Trump. Just thought I'd point out that most people DO NOT want this president.
  - bkor 9y ago
    Around half did want him? That's a significant of people to me, no matter if they have the majority or not.
    - klausjensen 9y ago
      Technically, only ~57% of eligible voters actually voted. Of those, about half voted for Trump. So only about 27% of all eligible voters actually voted for Trump. That is pretty standard for a US presidential election. Those are the rules for democracy, so he is the legitimately elected president. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/10/13587462/trump-election-2016-voter-turnout https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/10/13587462/...
      - danieldk 9y ago
        So only about 27% of all eligible voters actually voted for Trump. The remaining 43% voted for 'I'll take whoever wins'. So, ~72% of the eligible voters can be held accountable for him becoming president. Those are the rules for democracy, so he is the legitimately elected president. Definitely, it is legitimate, even if we don't like the outcome ;).
apexalpha 9y ago
GF traveled to the US for work, a conference in Houston. Everyone that looked Arab of Muslim was 'randomly' picked out of line. Some of the employees had to undress and squat in front of the TSA and one had to undergo cavity searches. These were regular European citizens. Let's just say conferences will be help in Europe or Canada in the future...
- HappyTypist 9y ago
  Are you serious? Strip and cavity searches? This needs to be on the media.
  - irrlichthn 9y ago
    What would it change?
  - Markoff 9y ago
    it's not that uncommon even in Europe to be honest, if you will find German policeman who had bad day and you drive car with foreign (PL, CZ mostly) license plate you can be searched same way under suspicion of carrying drugs and you can do nothing about it and it's happening occasionally
    - crummy 9y ago
      do we have the same definition of "cavity search"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_cavity_search https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_cavity_search
      - Markoff 9y ago
        yes but you won't find articles about this in international media, because it's just lowly Eastern Europeans
  - fastball 9y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWdD206eSv0&hl=en-GB&gl=GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWdD206eSv0&hl=en-GB&gl=GB
jdietrich 9y ago
If you have to travel to the US, fly via Shannon Airport in Ireland. A special arrangement with the Irish government allows you to pass through US immigration and customs controls while you're still on Irish soil. When you arrive in the US, you're treated as a domestic passenger. You don't avoid the intrusive interrogations, but they're a lot more polite about it because they can't detain you. If you're refused entry, you can fly home at your own leisure rather than being detained and deported. http://www.shannonairport.ie/gns/passengers/prepare/us-preclearance.aspx http://www.shannonairport.ie/gns/passengers/prepare/us-precl...
- mugsie 9y ago
  Dublin airport also has the same arrangement - it makes travelling much easier.
  - s_kilk 9y ago
    And if we're honest, Dublin is a better airport than Shannon
    - youngtaff 9y ago
      Each time I've been through it the US immigration hall in Dublin has been a right 'zoo'
- beagle3 9y ago
  Don't know if it is still the case, but Canada had a similar arrangement last time I flew through Toronto (about 10 years ago)
  - Terretta 9y ago
    Yes
- mstade 9y ago
  Arlanda airport in Stockholm is also working on a pre-clearance arrangement like this[1], although it won't start until 2019 at the earliest it seems. [1]: https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/united-states-sweden-sign-agreement-open-preclearance-facility https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/united-s...
kyrre 9y ago
Judging by the narrative the media is putting out one would think that Poland is a nightmare patriarchal state where rape victims are denied abortion and politicians agree that woman should be paid less because they are too 'small, weak and unintelligent' for equal pay. Be more critical. Traveling to the US is a breeze for Europeans.
- Markoff 9y ago
  Traveling to the US is a breeze for white Europeans. FTFY
  - pferde 9y ago
    A breeze for white Europeans who do not mind all the privacy intrusions and indecencies they have to go through if they so much as blink their eyes or make a face at the wrong moment.
- ItendToDisagree 9y ago
  Why would anyone want to go to a country like that right? Unless they wanted to work in Texas or something.
- therpe1 9y ago
  That's the narrative the media is pushing only in your head. It's obvious you have no respect for the truth but please don't insult the rest of us by misrepresenting easily googleable news stories. Given that your baseless allegations about "the media' who here really needs to be more critical?
- pg314 9y ago
  > Traveling to the US is a breeze for Europeans. No, it isn't. I am European, travelled twice to the US last year. Each time multi-hour wait for the USCBP check. From take-off in Brussels to landing in NYC took less time than getting from JFK to Manhattan. If I can avoid it, I will not be travelling to the US any time soon.
  - 9y ago
wil421 9y ago
Quit believeing everything on the internet. I'm sure those things happen but are so far off the norm. I've been to Europe twice this past year and I don't think it's any different. In Italy there was military everywhere in Rome and Florence. At every monument and Big site there were military with guns looking at everyone. Sometimes stopping people. I've never been patted down and searched as bad as I was in Frankfurt. Security and questioning was on par with US customs. Don't even get me started on Serbia.
- ibejoeb 9y ago
  Europe, indeed. Try going to a museum in Paris. Not even New York has that level of military presence.
falcodream 9y ago
I agree with your observations, but I wanted to offer a positive viewpoint on them. One thing I learned about the US over the years is that a lot of law enforcement's heavy-handedness is an emergent property of supporting a country with extreme notions of personal liberty, not a reaction against it. The gamut of socially acceptable behavior is much wider in the US. That's necessarily reflected in how their police function, and shouldn't be to their detriment.
mtempm 9y ago
You are right. Thats one of the reasons Ron Paul said we need a revolution over here.
openplatypus 9y ago
Fingers crossed EU will implement visa reciprocity rule. Fingers crossed.
- ryfm 9y ago
  so how is it going to make things better?
omk 9y ago
That's almost every developed country for an Indian passport.

louhike 9y ago

Yes, it feels strange but me and my girlfriend have decided it is not worth it to try to go to america on holidaysfor now because of all these difficulties.

collyw 9y ago

The UK seems to be trying its hardest to catch up.

krtkush 9y ago
India is going further and beyond[1]. [1] http://www.firstpost.com/india/aadhaar-mandatory-citizens-dont-have-absolute-right-on-their-body-privacy-argument-bogus-govt-tells-sc-3420398.html http://www.firstpost.com/india/aadhaar-mandatory-citizens-do...
- TheArcane 9y ago
  This right wing wave is agaibst globalization. What do you expect?
Yizahi 9y ago
On the visa price front they already beat everyone else. 115$ for half year visa? Or 450$ for two years visa? Great.
- te_chris 9y ago
  Walk in the park. I just got a Tier 1 (Exceptional Talent) visa. Total cost for mine and my partners (including flights home to NZ because, apparently, the world would end if people on working holiday visas were allowed to transition in-country)? £~5.5k
- Markoff 9y ago
  that seem pretty reasonable compared to third world country like China where I had to pay like 110€ for yearly FAMILY visa, because why not charge husband of Chinese citizen visa (plus had to renew it each year like some newcomer student) and you can't even work with this visa anyway, according Chinese government you should be freeloading on your spouse now compare it with my wife in EU - 5 year residence permit for free, of course including work permit and also because she is taking care of our child she got free healthcare insurance

danieldk 9y ago

We had serious plans to go on holiday to the US this year. I have been in the US at least a dozen of times, and absolutely love the desert states, Oregon, and Washington. Entering the US was already a large hassle, but with Trump's travel bans, rumors of phone, laptop, and social media checks, we have decided to postpone our travel plans until the political/security climate improves. Semi-related: we were in the market for a new car. One of the factors we decided to go for a European car this time (we had a Ford Focus before) is that we'd like to support Trump America as little as possible. Before you say that this is overreacting, hear me out: the US belongs to US citizens. If you want this president, fine. But some of his policies, such as denying climate change and undermining journalism is going te have a large influence on the rest of us.

ItendToDisagree 9y ago
The majority of US citizens did not vote for Trump. Just thought I'd point out that most people DO NOT want this president.
- bkor 9y ago
  Around half did want him? That's a significant of people to me, no matter if they have the majority or not.
  - klausjensen 9y ago
    Technically, only ~57% of eligible voters actually voted. Of those, about half voted for Trump. So only about 27% of all eligible voters actually voted for Trump. That is pretty standard for a US presidential election. Those are the rules for democracy, so he is the legitimately elected president. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/10/13587462/trump-election-2016-voter-turnout https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/10/13587462/...
    - danieldk 9y ago
      So only about 27% of all eligible voters actually voted for Trump. The remaining 43% voted for 'I'll take whoever wins'. So, ~72% of the eligible voters can be held accountable for him becoming president. Those are the rules for democracy, so he is the legitimately elected president. Definitely, it is legitimate, even if we don't like the outcome ;).

apexalpha 9y ago

GF traveled to the US for work, a conference in Houston. Everyone that looked Arab of Muslim was 'randomly' picked out of line. Some of the employees had to undress and squat in front of the TSA and one had to undergo cavity searches. These were regular European citizens. Let's just say conferences will be help in Europe or Canada in the future...

HappyTypist 9y ago
Are you serious? Strip and cavity searches? This needs to be on the media.
- irrlichthn 9y ago
  What would it change?
- Markoff 9y ago
  it's not that uncommon even in Europe to be honest, if you will find German policeman who had bad day and you drive car with foreign (PL, CZ mostly) license plate you can be searched same way under suspicion of carrying drugs and you can do nothing about it and it's happening occasionally
  - crummy 9y ago
    do we have the same definition of "cavity search"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_cavity_search https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_cavity_search
    - Markoff 9y ago
      yes but you won't find articles about this in international media, because it's just lowly Eastern Europeans
- fastball 9y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWdD206eSv0&hl=en-GB&gl=GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWdD206eSv0&hl=en-GB&gl=GB

jdietrich 9y ago

If you have to travel to the US, fly via Shannon Airport in Ireland. A special arrangement with the Irish government allows you to pass through US immigration and customs controls while you're still on Irish soil. When you arrive in the US, you're treated as a domestic passenger. You don't avoid the intrusive interrogations, but they're a lot more polite about it because they can't detain you. If you're refused entry, you can fly home at your own leisure rather than being detained and deported. http://www.shannonairport.ie/gns/passengers/prepare/us-preclearance.aspx http://www.shannonairport.ie/gns/passengers/prepare/us-precl...

mugsie 9y ago
Dublin airport also has the same arrangement - it makes travelling much easier.
- s_kilk 9y ago
  And if we're honest, Dublin is a better airport than Shannon
  - youngtaff 9y ago
    Each time I've been through it the US immigration hall in Dublin has been a right 'zoo'
beagle3 9y ago
Don't know if it is still the case, but Canada had a similar arrangement last time I flew through Toronto (about 10 years ago)
- Terretta 9y ago
  Yes
mstade 9y ago
Arlanda airport in Stockholm is also working on a pre-clearance arrangement like this[1], although it won't start until 2019 at the earliest it seems. [1]: https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/united-states-sweden-sign-agreement-open-preclearance-facility https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/united-s...

kyrre 9y ago

Judging by the narrative the media is putting out one would think that Poland is a nightmare patriarchal state where rape victims are denied abortion and politicians agree that woman should be paid less because they are too 'small, weak and unintelligent' for equal pay. Be more critical. Traveling to the US is a breeze for Europeans.

Markoff 9y ago
Traveling to the US is a breeze for white Europeans. FTFY
- pferde 9y ago
  A breeze for white Europeans who do not mind all the privacy intrusions and indecencies they have to go through if they so much as blink their eyes or make a face at the wrong moment.
ItendToDisagree 9y ago
Why would anyone want to go to a country like that right? Unless they wanted to work in Texas or something.
therpe1 9y ago
That's the narrative the media is pushing only in your head. It's obvious you have no respect for the truth but please don't insult the rest of us by misrepresenting easily googleable news stories. Given that your baseless allegations about "the media' who here really needs to be more critical?
pg314 9y ago
> Traveling to the US is a breeze for Europeans. No, it isn't. I am European, travelled twice to the US last year. Each time multi-hour wait for the USCBP check. From take-off in Brussels to landing in NYC took less time than getting from JFK to Manhattan. If I can avoid it, I will not be travelling to the US any time soon.
- 9y ago

wil421 9y ago

Quit believeing everything on the internet. I'm sure those things happen but are so far off the norm. I've been to Europe twice this past year and I don't think it's any different. In Italy there was military everywhere in Rome and Florence. At every monument and Big site there were military with guns looking at everyone. Sometimes stopping people. I've never been patted down and searched as bad as I was in Frankfurt. Security and questioning was on par with US customs. Don't even get me started on Serbia.

ibejoeb 9y ago
Europe, indeed. Try going to a museum in Paris. Not even New York has that level of military presence.

falcodream 9y ago

I agree with your observations, but I wanted to offer a positive viewpoint on them. One thing I learned about the US over the years is that a lot of law enforcement's heavy-handedness is an emergent property of supporting a country with extreme notions of personal liberty, not a reaction against it. The gamut of socially acceptable behavior is much wider in the US. That's necessarily reflected in how their police function, and shouldn't be to their detriment.

mtempm 9y ago

You are right. Thats one of the reasons Ron Paul said we need a revolution over here.

openplatypus 9y ago

Fingers crossed EU will implement visa reciprocity rule. Fingers crossed.

ryfm 9y ago
so how is it going to make things better?

omk 9y ago

That's almost every developed country for an Indian passport.