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More interestingly is that the EV does not help solve congestion. They take up the same space as an ICEV. Raleigh now sell more electric bikes than normal bike

• DigitalJack 9y ago
  This has been the wettest 7 months in ages here in the pacific northwest. There are a few die-hard cyclists out though. I've often thought about something like this for my around town type errands.
  • awjr 9y ago
    I've always thought there is no such thing as the wrong weather, just the wrong clothes ;) In all seriousness, an eBike lets me get anywhere I need to in 20 minutes or so. As long as I wear a rain coat, only the front of my trousers get wet. My bike has mudguards and panniers. I've gone with the Ortlieb classic panniers as they 'roll' at the top. Between two I can get one layer of a large supermarket trolleys worth of goods into them. Although the last minute pack of 9 loo rolls was more of a challenge but because the tops unroll you can just wedge them in. It's very 'sensible' practical bike aimed squarely at the function of 'living without a car in a city'.
    • manmal 9y ago
      I've contemplated buying a moped that counts as an e-bike where I live, because it can only go 25 kph. Do you see any downsides to such an e-Moped vs buying a classic e-bike? (Besides the fact that I can't tread if the battery is empty)
      • Symbiote 9y ago
        It's probably less appropriate to ride it while drunk. Cyclists don't seem to like them, as they're bigger and tend to be driven without much consideration. I live in Copenhagen. (I haven't seen any e-mopeds here, only petrol ones.)
      • flippyhead 9y ago
        The benefits of exercise are pretty significant. Even assisted biking is still more biking than none.
        • manmal 9y ago
          True, I'm still considering an e-bike for this very reason.
          • awjr 9y ago
            If you want a real workout (and I do this on my way home from work sometimes) I turn down/off the assist and you're suddenly cycling a 20+kg bike up a hill.
      • Kluny 9y ago
        As a cyclist I'd personally ask you to go with an ebike rather than a moped, just because they take up less space on the path. With enough mopeds, the bike roads can be almost as scary as the car roads.
      • awjr 9y ago
        In the UK you can drink and ride an eBike ;) However the key is that cycle paths are legally off limits to mopeds (in the UK). You'll also find parking a lot easier with a eBike.
        • icc97 9y ago
          Belgium allows mopeds and small engined motor cycles on cycle paths and I think it makes sense to do so. It doesn't really increase the likelihood of killing cyclists but it does lower the likelihood of killing moped riders who are typically younger people
    • schtitt 9y ago
      > I've always thought there is no such thing as the wrong weather, just the wrong clothes ;) So you're saying you're Norwegian?
      • unwind 9y ago
        Could be Swedish too, that's very close to an idiomatic expression in Swedish: "there is no bad weather, only bad clothes" ("det finns inget dåligt väder, bara dåliga kläder", it even rhymes in Swedish).
        • ido 9y ago
          Unfortunately, while this works for too cold- it does not for too hot.
          • Gravityloss 9y ago
            I wonder if a special outfit could work for that? Shade the head and shoulders, ventilate maximally otherwise. The airflow is useful for cooling, though stops working after a certain point, then you need evaporation.
          • Coincoin 9y ago
            I agree but only partially. I noticed most people who complain about hot weather dress very badly. The trick is ample light colored linen clothing that covers as much skin as possible. It might seem counter intuitive to cover your whole arms and legs, but linen is actually very good at evaporating your sweat and keeping you cool while protecting you from the sun.
  • fovc 9y ago
    Amsterdam is as rainy a city as any (though not too many torrential downpours) and people bike around through the weather. With the proper attire it's easy to bike through it. You'll sometimes see bikers with an umbrella, though I don't know if that would work at e-bike speeds People are also extremely crafty about carrying all sorts of improbable objects (I saw a dining table once!) in a way that wouldn't be out of place in Indonesia. It's very refreshing to see some 3rd world ingenuity in the 1st world.
    • akvadrako 9y ago
      I hope that as e-bikes become more popular people keep the speeds low; otherwise it will become unsafe. For reasonable speeds, like that of a city bike in high gear, an aerodynamic umbrella works plenty well: https://www.senz.com/en/ https://www.senz.com/en/
      • himlion 9y ago
        That's pretty clever. I wonder how much of a difference it makes.
        • blawson 9y ago
          They work great. I cycled regularly with one in Amsterdam. It's like a sail - it stabilizes itself in the correct vertical position as you ride. Holding one gets pretty effortless.
      • awjr 9y ago
        I just bought one. Looks perfect.
    • usrusr 9y ago
      > People are also extremely crafty about carrying all sorts of improbable objects (I saw a dining table once!) in a way that wouldn't be out of place in Indonesia. I find it easier to carry heavy objects while cycling than while walking, because the upper body can be much more stable, less bobbing. The speed difference is negligible though, because you really don't want to outrun your severely encumbered braking.
• tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  I built one a couple of months ago, it is very practical and huge fun as well. I'm not sure I sweat less as I tend to ride it flat out everywhere. We have also gone down to one car.
• hkmurakami 9y ago
  Bikes/electric bikes seem like a good idea until sadly, one bad incident with a reckless driver. I'd absolutely bike/ebike in SF if not for the continuous stories of friends and friends of friends getting hit, getting run off the road, or having close calls. Bay Area drivers are much more agrressive and hurried and distracted than a decade ago and I am concerned for my fellow cyclists and pedestrians. (My friend almost got hit last week in downtown MV in the crosswalk when a car ran a red. In downtown! And we were at the other side of the intersection)
  • Kluny 9y ago
    Vote for bike lanes, traffic calming, traffic violation enforcement, and cities built for humans instead of cars, whenever you can.
  • DrScump 9y ago
    I've never seen specific enforcement of crosswalk rights-of-way in the Bay Area, despite it being such a target-rich environment. The crosswalks across Castro (Mountain View's "Main St.") are generally observed, probably because they are numerous. In contrast, crosswalks across El Camino not at traffic lights are death traps (like just West of Halford, where there was a fatality a month or two ago).
    • hkmurakami 9y ago
      I had no idea non traffic light cross walks even existed on el Camino! (I generally consider el camino to be a death trap overall)
  • amelius 9y ago
    And you might get "doored" [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12674533 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12674533
  • amagumori 9y ago
    as a working bike messenger, there's so much i could say about this, but i'll keep it to one thing. PROCEED AS THOUGH YOU ARE INVISIBLE TO CARS, AND YOU'LL BE FINE. postscript: IF YOU MAKE EYE CONTACT WITH THE CAR DRIVER, THEY'LL RECOGNIZE YOUR HUMANITY, AND WILL BE LESS LIKELY TO KILL YOU.
• rubber_duck 9y ago
  Or you can get a scooter/motorcycle and not be limited by range or speed while still having the mobility and still save a ton of money compared to a car. This is even more of a niche (lower range and utility, the only upside is that you can store it indoors - but parking a motorcycle isn't as hard as parking a car).
• _ph_ 9y ago
  Indeed, EVs don't solve congestion. But they solve a lot of problems associated with congestion, as in toxic exhausts and noise. Self-driving electrical vehicles could greatly reduce congestion, as the throughput of roads could be improved (less distance between cars, optimal driving without human errors). For sure we should strongly look into alternative approaches which would reduce or eliminate congestion, but until they are deployed, people are going to be dependent on cars - we should make those cars as environmental friendly as possible.
  • acqq 9y ago
    Are the cars made to be the same size as the gasoline cars more environmental friendly at all, once we consider all the environmental effects of producing them, providing the energy, and finally handling the waste at the end? Has anybody performed a whole honest evaluation?
    • lloeki 9y ago
      > producing them, providing the energy, and finally handling the waste at the end All of those produce environmental effects that for EVs are now: - local instead of spread out - largely decoupled from the vehicle This is a huge architectural change because we're factoring environmental effects out of the vehicle, which allows for accelerated improvements without changing the car itself as well as economies of scale resulting in better environmental efficiency. Switch from coal to nuke and all currently running EVs stop emitting a lot of CO2 at once. Switch to wind+solar and they're suddenly all nuke-waste-free too. The same car could change to more recyclable battery tech (swappable batteries, battery rental...) over the course of its life and become progressively cleaner. So even if it provides an increase right now (which it doesn't, plus we're just living on a huge carbon credit card anyway) it certainly won't on the medium to long term.
      • icc97 9y ago
        Electric vehicles has to be the best example of why you should keep your objects loosely coupled :)
    • 9y ago
• techsupporter 9y ago
  I would totally ride a bike as part of my commute except for one small problem: I have to cross Lake Washington eastbound to go to work and westbound to come home and at odd hours. Transit service drops to hourly after 8:30pm and the bus only carries three bikes at a time. So far, I've noticed that 1/3rd of the time, in nice weather, I'd be fine and could load my bike on the bus; another 1/3rd, I'd be at the 10:30pm trip and it would be full so I'm waiting for the 11:30pm trip that isn't full; and the last 1/3rd, the 11:30pm trip is full so I'm stuck either leaving my bike or not getting home. (I see these because I still take Transit to work by using two buses each way. I'd rather ride my bike for one of them...) Maybe this just means that I should work on getting in shape so I can just ride a route that takes me across the lake...
  • awjr 9y ago
    Do the buses let you take fold-ups on to them? Can easily get mine onto buses and trains in the UK.
  • Gravityloss 9y ago
    Could you rather make the commute easier for yourself, by moving or changing where you work?
• pg314 9y ago
  > You might not like the idea of a hot sweaty cycle ride to work. You don't have to exert yourself until you start sweating. Cycling at around 10 mph is equivalent to walking at a brisk pace (3.5-4 mph) [1]. On really hot days you'll be less sweaty cycling because of the breeze (except if you're wearing a backpack). If you live in a really hilly area, you might break a sweat on the uphills. [1] http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/medicine/sportsmed/cusm_patient_resources/Documents/Estimating%20Energy%20Expenditure.pdf http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/medicine/sportsme...
  • slazaro 9y ago
    They might be comparing cycling in a hot humid place with driving inside an air-conditioned car. In that case, you are going to sweat more outside than inside.
    • sokoloff 9y ago
      In that case, an E-bike is little help.
  • wcummings 9y ago
    Everybody is different, some people sweat a lot more than I do, for sure.
  • NoGravitas 9y ago
    I agree with this. I live in a very hot place (summer highs typically around 100F), and I don't sweat on my morning bike commute unless I want to. On the way home, it can't be helped, but at that point I'm going home and it doesn't matter.
  • mturmon 9y ago
    "...except if you're wearing a backpack..." Tangential, but as a long-distance touring cyclist, it always saddens me to see riders with large backpacks, especially in hot weather. I know that a rack and a pannier did not come standard with the bike, but those riders would have a much better experience if they used panniers! It allows more airflow, but more importantly, it takes the weight off your body and puts it on the bike.
• appleflaxen 9y ago
  i think people know what you are talking about, but in case anyone is confused by the units of torque: you mean Nm rather than nm. nm = nanometers Nm = Newton-meters
• dgregd 9y ago
  That's why I would like to see a hybrid of a electric van and Uber as a new city bus. The bus should have 6 doors and separated passenger space. So each passenger would have its own private space. Travel time should be much shorter due to using fast lanes and low number of bus stops. During rush hours the bus should take 5 passengers (6 with self-driving technology). Because of small size it should economic enough to use the bus only for one passenger, even in suburbs. Uber like software should be used for costs optimization, for example you could wait for the bus in front of your house or walk 500 meters closer to the main road to save $5. All needed technology already exists. No need to dig tunnels. PS. In Central and Northern Europe bikes are only useful for 4 months a year. PS2. I don't want to discuss how many days per year someone can ride an e-bike to work. Some sort of public / car transport is and will be needed. There is no much innovation in public bus transport therefore I described the idea about electric van / Uber hybrid.
  • ido 9y ago
    PS. In Central and Northern Europe bikes are only useful for 4 months a year. I live in Berlin and you definitely see lots of people on bikes between march and october (8 months of the year). Not much different in Amsterdam or Copenhagen I believe (quite possibly better).
  • icc97 9y ago
    They have special machines in Belgium that clean the snow off all of the bike paths - and yes, then people do cycle.
  • kalleboo 9y ago
    > PS. In Central and Northern Europe bikes are only useful for 4 months a year. I lived in southern Sweden and while bike ridership did go down in winter, it was still very high. My city even prioritized snow-clearing/sanding of bike paths (they have special mini bulldozers). edit: the numbers I found were that in Sweden 30-40% of trips on a bicycle were done in the winter half of the year, so about 30% lower ridership than in the summer[0] [0] http://www.trafa.se/globalassets/rapporter/rapport-2015_14-cyklandets-utveckling-i-sverige-1995-2014.pdf http://www.trafa.se/globalassets/rapporter/rapport-2015_14-c...
• JulianMorrison 9y ago
  EVs solve part of the problem. Self driving taxi (SDT) fleets solve a large part of the rest. Things you don't need in a SDT world include store parking lots, personal garages and driveways, commuter parking in the daytime, and one car per person. EV+SDT gets you a world where enormous amounts of space can be released for either urban development or rewilding, and where you can breathe the air. It also gives you, conveniently, a world where it's much safer to cycle. SDTs will not drive dangerously, and they don't have blind spots.
• clarry 9y ago
  I've been thinking of electric bikes recently. The problem is, I would like to have some extra speed (thus range) with less sweat, in exchange for the price & weight & need to charge batteries. In fact, it sounds just amazing. But in Finland, electric assist is legally limited to operate at no more than 25 km/h. That's slower than my normal cycling pace. What a way to ruin a great idea.
  • kisstheblade 9y ago
    Doesn't the assist just cut off at that speed? So you can cycle it like a regular bike faster. So what's the problem? Wouldn't it be stupid to have "bikes" which can go eg. 100km/h?
    • clarry 9y ago
      Yes it cuts off, so it doesn't make me faster, except in the few seconds I take to accelerate (or climb uphill, which is not often). So it's really just dead weight. > Wouldn't it be stupid to have "bikes" which can go eg. 100km/h? No, why? If I could, I would.
  • the_imp 9y ago
    Not quite. The 25 km/h limit is just for the bike's classification as a "bicycle"; electric bikes that go faster than that just need to get registered and are effectively treated as mopeds under traffic laws.
    • clarry 9y ago
      Yes, and that's bad. Suddenly you're bound by a lot more regulations, and access to many a path is cut off. It's not a great trade off.
      • dagw 9y ago
        If you're going a speeds significantly above what most cyclists are doing you should be bound by more regulations than cyclists and you probably should stick to the roads and not be allowed to use bike paths.
• 6d6b73 9y ago
  They may not solve congestion, but they should lower it, even it it's by a tiny amount. The reason is simple - electric cars don't have to visit gas stations which sometimes adds few miles to the miles traveled every month. i.e on my way to work I have just one gas station. When I have to fuel my car, (usually once a week) I have to take a different route that's about 1/2 mile longer than my usual route. That's about 25 miles /year. If we multiply this by 260mln passenger cars on the roads we get 6.5 billion miles. Let's go little further with this.. if set avg fuel economy for all of these cars at 20 mpg we get 325000000 gallons of fuel saved each year when all of the cars are electric. Funny how small little thing can have big impact. Of course this is just a guesstimate.
• p0nce 9y ago
  Energetically, eBikes also uses the least amount of energy to get somewhere. I have a car mostly for a handful of 60km ride each year. It is well within range of what eBikes do now (you can check trips with ebikemaps http://ebikemaps.com/ http://ebikemaps.com/). My current car may well be my last one.
• NoGravitas 9y ago
  I love the idea of eBikes. I bike commute on a conventional city bike, 5mi each way, every day. I wouldn't mind a boost when there's a headwind or I'm tired. And I would like the help to make a 10 mile trip more practical. But the price! I looked at some eBikes, and they were often around 4k. That's almost twice as much as a good quality gasoline moped/scooter like the Honda Metropolitan. So it's a tough value proposition to make.
  • zootam 9y ago
    you can DIY one using a kit for under $2k total ($500 bike + $1500ish kit)
    • mixedCase 9y ago
      That's still far too expensive compared to a motorcycle, that you also don't have to assemble yourself.
  • revelation 9y ago
    That's probably true, from a "bang per buck" perspective. But a scooter needs insurance, plates, gas, oil, costs tax and at the end of the day they are lawnmowers on wheels, so if something goes wrong with the motor, and it will regularly, you probably can't fix it on your own and are stranded. Even if your battery fails or the boost you would likely still have a fully functional bike, just some extra resistance on the pedals. And legally of course, a scooter restricts you to streets that cars can go on. That might not mean much in an American suburb but even here in a bike backwards German town we have pedestrian zones where bikes are explicitly allowed, one way streets with exemptions for bikes.. being able to use bike-legal paths can make for a more direct, faster route.
    • NoGravitas 9y ago
      I take your points. One quibble here is that in my state, motor scooters do not need insurance, plates, or tax as long as the engine volume and top speed are below certain values.
• ZeroGravitas 9y ago
  It's a bit of a second order effect but EV buses are more pleasant to ride than the ICE equivalent, and share much of the same tech as the EV cars, so they share e.g. battery cost reductions.
• ChefDenominator 9y ago
  What I truly hate about the bicycle push is that some of us cannot ride bicycles for very legitimate reasons including medical problems or a job that requires a vehicle.
  • apexalpha 9y ago
    If 50% of the people driving cars switch to (e-)bikes that will be better for everyone. Including those still using cars.
    • ChefDenominator 9y ago
      The issue in my area is that the "push" is coming through social engineering tactics, such as reducing road capacity and granting special privilege on existing roads to bicyclists. If the change in road infrastructure were to occur after the bicycles became a more popular mode of transportation, that would be fine, but doing it before makes the whole situation miserable, especially for those of us who simply do not have the option of switching.
  • ChefDenominator 9y ago
    The other thing I hate about the bicycle push is the self-righteousness of many involved and the complete lack of consideration for people who cannot ride bicycles for various legitimate reasons, plus they are down-voting cowards.
    • brokenmachine 9y ago
      Lack of consideration? I don't know what consideration you want but the roads are completely car dominated so there's no consideration necessary in my opinion. I usually ride to work 4 days a week, and drive 1 day, depending on weather. I'm a driver but I still want proper separated bike paths. And I can't be the only one. People are scared to ride and I don't blame them. It's scary riding on a road with so many tired/oblivious/terrible/selfish drivers who actually don't follow the road rules even while driving a deadly weapon. I can't understand why it's so difficult to provide facilities actually. Bike paths don't have heavy vehicles ruining them so need way less maintenance than normal roads. A bike path for 2 way traffic only takes the width of a single car lane. You could just make one road per suburb one way, and there you go. I'm oversimplifying but I'm not a town planner, I'm just a dumb commuter. At least where I live, it's laughable that you'd be complaining about a "bike push", as there are no real facilities for bikes at all. Just crappy unconnected paths that never get you to anywhere useful. You always have to go on a road with cars to get anywhere.
• saturdaysaint 9y ago
  Unfortunately, the average American commute is 15 miles one way, and American corporate offices tend to be located in areas where bike/pedestrian friendliness is barely a consideration. I love biking and would be happy to bike for an hour each way, but every time I've mapped out a commute, there's been a stretch or too that's too dangerous. These days, straight roads scare me more than intersections. With the amount of distracted drivers out there, I'm not biking on any road without a spacious shoulder or a sidewalk.
  • pault 9y ago
    I've noticed that in my neighborhood in Austin, most of the cyclists ride on the sidewalks. I've been thinking about getting a bicycle but this fact doesn't inspire confidence.
    • antisthenes 9y ago
      Unless there's a dedicated bike lane, it makes more sense to cycle on the sidewalks than the road (if the road speed limit is 35mph+) A cyclist has the same protection from injury in an accident with a car as a pedestrian, but the pedestrian is far less likely to be injured by a bike than a car (if there is an accident)
      • nanomonkey 9y ago
        Studies have shown that riding on the sidewalk is considerably less safe than riding on the street (due to link rot, I can't find the studies I'd read, but google brings up plenty). Cars do not expect bicycles to be crossing intersections from the sidewalk, so your risk of being hit by a car goes up considerably unless you come to a complete stop at each intersection you cross. I've never met a bicyclist that does this as it will break your momentum considerably. Whats more, pedestrians and dogs often walk into the way of sidewalk operating bicyclist. Please don't do this.
        • thesmok 9y ago
          My experience confirms that. I've done a lot of riding on the road with cars but the only time I was hit by a car was when I was riding on the sidewalk and crossing the road.
• nicolashahn 9y ago
  To me, bicycles have all the downsides of a motorcycle except for cost and reliance on fossil fuels. Motorcycles are in my opinion safer in a city setting IF you ride with self control and vigilance (motorcyclists seem to self-select for unnecessarily-risk-taking types of people, but you don't need to be among them), due to the convention of wearing more protection Most bicyclists wear just a half helmet, if that. A loud exhaust can also make you more noticeable to cars, I'm not going to say loud pipes save lives but in close proximity an exhaust can be the difference between a car noticing you and not. Not to mention you get to wherever you're going much faster since you can ride at car speeds and still lane split.
  • xyzzyz 9y ago
    To be fair, the speed plays an important factor during an accident, as accidents at higher speeds tend to have dramatically more severe consequences. The bicycles rarely reach normal motorcycle operation speed, and while motorcyclists tend to use better helmet, not that many of them actually follow ATGATT religiously (mostly those that have been in accidents themselves). Generally though I'll agree with you that motorcycles are safer in cities than bicycles, but for a different reason -- motorcycles, unlike bicycles, generally ride along with car traffic on roads, and so car operators are more likely to see them, as they only appear where car drivers expect other cars. Many bicyclists have an unfortunate habit of riding on a sidewalk, which is very, very dangerous. Having brighter head and tail lights on a motorcycle, and blinking indicators definitely helps too.
• cryptonector 9y ago
  Congestion can be addressed by privatizing bus services. No, seriously. Every country and city seems to love to nationalize something. In the U.S. every city has done that with bus services. But if you look around the world you'll find places like Buenos Aires that have not done this and have a thriving bus industry that can get you from very close to point A to very close to point B in much less time than buses in the U.S. and with fewer transfers. But now consider something like Uber/Lyft for _small_ buses: routes need not be set in stone. You pre-arrange every day where and when to get picked up and dropped off. This can probably get much closer to the travel times that private cars can deliver. Bikes are not the answer, incidentally. Only a small proportion of the population in the U.S. will use them, and only a small proportion of the population in American cities lives 0-5mi from work. We don't build high pop. density cities in the U.S. anymore. The re-zoning plans in Austin (to give one example) call for adding in the next decade just one third of the housing Austin needs, thus increasing sprawl -- this happens because of NIMBYism, and the story is the same just about everywhere that isn't already a high pop. density city. Besides, bikes are scary and dangerous to a very large number of people.