14 ms·

Did the exact same thing this year. Moved to Oviedo, FL from SF: 1) no state income tax, 2) public schools in my neighborhood are equivalent to a private sch

Did the exact same thing this year. Moved to Oviedo, FL from SF: 1) no state income tax, 2) public schools in my neighborhood are equivalent to a private school in sf [i] 4) weather is great 8 months out of year, 5) beaches you can swim in, 6) rent is ~1/4 of what it was in SF, 7) cuban food, 8) as a resident, kids have year round disney passes [i] http://school-ratings.com/Florida/schools/Carillon_Elementary_School.html http://school-ratings.com/Florida/schools/Carillon_Elementar... WARNING: The tech job market is pretty much non-existent. "more challenging" is an understatement. I would be prepared to answer 'can you lift 50 lbs' in your 'tech' interview. I am a remote dev.

s3r3nity 10y ago
Sidebar / off topic: highly recommend the cuban espresso in Florida if you're into coffee...blew me away when I had it for the first time, and is one of the top reasons I look forward to travelling there.
- cylinder 10y ago
  To me it's just a poorly pulled espresso with a ton of sugar...
  - will_brown 10y ago
    Not sure the down votes because you just perfectly described a bad colada. But there is hope they can be delicious, it's the only coffee I drink, and I even wanted to bring Cuban coffee in a can to market cubanshot.weebly.com of course months after contacting coffee canners Starbucks came out with their doubleshot cubano which is terrible. Basically the difference between a real/good colada and what you described is whipping and creation of a paste in the beginning before the pull. Remain open minded
    - protomyth 10y ago
      I see a lot of canned coffee so there seems to be a bit of market beyond Starbucks. I would ditch the green though. I guess it depends on can you produce at a scale that would make you profitable.
      - amenod 10y ago
        +1 for ditching the green, agree 100%...
- Dangeranger 10y ago
  Colada is life for me in Miami. 4-5 shots of Cafe Cubano to share with friends, or just drink yourself and feel the buzz.
  - ajmurmann 10y ago
    What the existence of Colada says about the culture is so awesome. I want to be part of that so bad!
- tbomb 10y ago
  Cafe colada is what I miss most about Miami, having now moved to California :(
OhHeyItsE 10y ago
What's the tech job market like there? Or are you fully remote like above?
- netizzio 10y ago
  The tech industry in Central Florida has grown in recent years and seems to be quite strong at present with companies like Disney, Universal, Deloitte hiring lots of tech folks, and a small but growing startup scene. Salaries aren't going to be the same as the west coast though (obviously), and most of the senior developer roles I've seen cap out at around the $100k-ish mark. With the far cheaper cost of living though, it goes a lot further.
  - tbomb 10y ago
    Don't forget the defense industry, a lot of my friends who graduated from UCF went to Boeing, Lockheed, and Homeland Security
    - lostmsu 10y ago
      Do they hire non-citizens?
  - OhHeyItsE 10y ago
    Practically, I know it should go further. I think about doing it all the time. But it sure sounds daunting to take a 30-50% pay cut to move to an area with (significantly) fewer jobs.
- itomato 10y ago
  I spent a few months trying to get (re)established in FL last year as a Consultant. The major market for tech jobs come from health care. Not a very progressive or interesting market. Its mostly the typical Windows/VMWare, Microsoft stuff. A little bit of Devops here and there, and a smattering of low level development/coding work. As a tooling and process consultant focused on Atlassian's tools, there's very little for me.
nojvek 10y ago
Very tempted to visit Florida
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  As a Fl native, it's a great place to live. The political situation sucks, but ya can't have everything. Edit: Some tips for visitors. Most beaches are beautiful and most have free access. Enjoy, but wear sunscreen (and keep reapplying). Oh and bring lots of water; playing at the beach dehydrates you fast. If you pick a Gulf Coast beach (Clearwater is nice), as you enter the water, skoot your feet on the sand. That flutter you feel across the top of your foot is a minor stingray. Won't hurt you unless you step on it. Don't bring an umbrella. The lightning here will kill you. Just plan on not being outside in the summer during the hours of 2pm - 6pm. Georgia drivers ... can't. I jest. But seriously... UF and FSU football... you will get so tired of seeing those school colors. :)
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    > Georgia drivers ... can't. I jest. But seriously... Triggered Atlantan
  - wil421 10y ago
    >Georgia drivers ... can't. I jest. But seriously... We have no patience for slow or dumb drivers in Atlanta. Go Dawgs. The panhandle has nice beaches as well.
  - logfromblammo 10y ago
    You can go outside. Just do it with a Gore-tex jacket and brimmed oilskin hat on. It's like an umbrella that won't evert in the wind or act as a lightning rod. If you feel a tingly sensation on the back of your neck or detect a sharp ozone-like smell, crouch down and cover your ears. Don't play golf or baseball in the rain. If you hear thunder or see lightning, go inside. Football is the unhealthy sports obsession of the South. You would think that in February, after the pro season ends, you would get a reprieve from it, but no, you don't. Baseball is the alternate sport. Basketball is a legend from a distant land, and nobody even knows what a hockey is. Stanley Cup playoffs are happening right now, and local television news would rather air a 10-minute story about some high school football team practicing for next year's season instead of 10 seconds just saying that the Senators beat the Bruins. If you don't love football, you will get so sick of football.
quietmonkey 10y ago
Isn't Disney pretty much the same thing as SeaWorld these days?
baddox 10y ago
That sounds great, but one of the common rebuttals is that the job market (remote or otherwise) may be more challenging outside of the Bay Area.
- nosequel 10y ago
  As a full time work-from-home person for the past 8 years I'd love for that to continue to be most people's assumption. :)
- freyr 10y ago
  What good is a "hot job market" that can't keep up with the housing market or cover the costs of raising a family?
  - metaphorm 10y ago
    its "good" for chewing up and spitting out 22-29 year olds. and people wonder why so many Silicon Valley tech firms have problems with "bro culture".
  - arebop 10y ago
    Treading water in a tech job in the bay area is kind of like being in a "normal" job (such as architect, as in buildings not software) any where else, except you don't have to worry about layoffs or a tyrannical boss because you can always just get another job. Sure it would be great to have both a high income (relative to local costs) and a job you love and plenty of other options, but if one must choose... I choose to trade away the upper-middle-class lifestyle in order to have enjoyable and impactful work in my chosen field of software engineering.
- matwood 10y ago
  Keep in mind there is a huge sliding scale between the job market in SF and BFE.
- phkahler 10y ago
  >> That sounds great, but one of the common rebuttals is that the job market (remote or otherwise) may be more challenging outside of the Bay Area. It amazes me how many people in tech can't do simple math. Hint: The Detroit area job market is on fire, but you will pass it over if your idea of compensation doesn't take into account cost of living. I'm sure there are several other cities that can say the same.
hamandcheese 10y ago
Welcome, from a remote dev in Orlando (and fellow Disney pass holder)!
netizzio 10y ago
Welcome! From another remote dev in Orlando (though not a disney pass holder... yet).
sedky 10y ago
What is your tech stack ? I would love to be remote some day.
- archeantus 10y ago
  I do native iOS development. I'm very much a proponent of remote work, and I wish more Bay Area companies would embrace it. If done right, it can lead to higher satisfaction from employees as well as increased productivity and reduced costs!
  - sdflkd 10y ago
    My fear is it also makes you the first to go.
ryandrake 10y ago
I used to live in south Florida (Ft. Lauderdale) and would move back in a heartbeat if I could find steady remote work. It's great, and still relatively cheap!
lordnacho 10y ago
8) as a resident, kids have year round disney passes What? Surely you pay for those? Also what about the humidity? Every time I've been there it's like a sauna.
- apearson 10y ago
  You get used to the heat and humidity after a while.
- Rudism 10y ago
  You pay for them, but it's not much more expensive than a single park admission. So you basically pay to go once, then can continue going as often as you'd like for the whole year at no cost.
rastapasta42 10y ago
Never thought I would see Oviedo on HN! I spend my high-school years in Oviedo but I had trouble finding jobs around the area. I had my first job in downtown Orlando which was 40-50 min commute, and I recently moved to Tampa Bay area. Oviedo is a decent area -- good air quality, close to nature but at the same time close to urban areas.
chaostheory 10y ago
Grew up in FL. Weather is actually terrible about 8 months of the year. It's too humid and hot. The climate is perfect for mosquitos, forcing you to wear long sleeve clothing at night during this humid weather (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalitis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalitis). Insects and arachnids thrive in FL's swampy climate. People who aren't from either that or a jungle need to take time to adjust. Imagine being sweaty after walking outside for a few feet. AC is a must and you will pay around $200-300/month (maybe more) for electricity without an EV (on the bright side your house is 2-3 times larger than the Bay Area). Great place for solar. When I think about it, FL is probably the Australia of the US; there are a lot of things there that will kill you. (Almost every Floridian knows not to let their children play near water when it gets dark. The ones that don't end up on the news.) The good part is that it's easy to grow avocado and mango trees. Also unlike earthquakes, hurricanes are easier to forecast. Other than water and the beaches, there's nothing to do compared to the SF Bay Area. Yes you can swim and surf in the beaches but due to decades of pollution, 'sea lice' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_louse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_louse) has been prevalent since I was a kid. Also due to erosion, most beach sand is now crushed rock. That said, the water is way nicer than anywhere in the SF Bay Area. If you like diving or snorkeling, you can hunt for lobsters yourself. Unfortunately, due to damage to the eco system, sharks are also a lot more aggressive, and they've been known to attack surfers as well for years now. Still, in some parts the water is so clear that you can see fish below while on a boat. Florida is primarily a giant retirement community for northerners, making it mostly a nice giant boring, suburb unless you are attending a party college in the far north. Miami has a club scene but it gets old. It's not NYC or LA. Cuban food is amazing though and even if it is available in another state; it's not the same. Forgot to add that there's less diversity in FL compared to other metros, even if you just compare it to other metros in the South it's still less. Maybe things have changed since I left?
- theparanoid 10y ago
  Interviewing in Seattle at Amazon, arguably the outdoor recreation capital of the US, only one of the interviewers had had time to take advantage.
  - 10y ago
DiNovi 10y ago
Orlando... really...?
sideband 10y ago
I also moved from the the Bay Area to Oviedo, FL not long ago (fun fact about our little town: Brian Acton, co-founder of WhatsApp, grew up here). I agree with everything on your list, and I'll add one more item: 9) Greater thought diversity and tolerance for opposing viewpoints. When I lived in the Bay Area it seemed that too many people I interacted with were of similar backgrounds: very educated, high income and similar political and social values. While I loved my years there, at times I felt like I was in a cultural bubble insulated from the real world. Worse, I saw people professionally shunned for expressing opinions that fell outside the mainstream. People here in the Orlando area are all types and they seem to love to discuss their differences and even try to learn from them. I can't begin to imagine someone suffering professionally only for their opinions here. It's very refreshing. I have not lived in enough places to guess if this is a Florida vs California thing, or an Orlando area vs Bay Area thing, or a Bay Area vs everywhere else thing, but I think it's certainly a positive difference.
- froindt 10y ago
  > When I lived in the Bay Area it seemed that too many people I interacted with were of similar backgrounds: very educated, high income and similar political and social values. I think this is one of the most important things as a whole. I am in Iowa (a red except for the counties holding the ~5 largest cities) and have a friend who is in DC. She said she mentioned having a couple friends from high school who were conservative and that made her weird in her friend group. The rest were in the DC bubble, effectively not knowing people from "the other side" on a personal level. The political polarization is really bad for the country. The concept that you can agree with the left on some issues and the right on others isn't popular. Personally I take the position that the "true, objective best" (if there was such a thing) solution is closer to the middle than the far right or far left.
  - rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
    OT politics and viewpoints are deeply ingrained. Two people with different views could be given the exact same facts and come away with vastly different conclusions. That never changes. The way we with with people we disagree with does change, and it indeed changes us as well.
doingmyting 10y ago
.NET remote developer here. I make Bay Area salary ($185K/yr) with full insurance benefits, transit allowance and stock options while living in rural NH. The best of both worlds. I also hope everyone thinks remote is difficult so it'll stay this way lol.
StillBored 10y ago
I lived in the Orlando area for a few years. Finding software shops is challenging (there are some, but you haven't heard of them), but there is a fair amount of defense contracting work. So, if you can get over the fact that your probably working on weapons systems or something related, the work definitely can be technically challenging. Plus, both UF and UCF have pretty decent comp sci/comp engineering programs so there is local talent, but it doesn't tend to stay in the Orlando area.
sidlls 10y ago
1) And this shows: public services and family friendly recreation are basically non-existent by comparison with the Bay 2) Possibly a gem in the rough, but having family who teach in OCPS I'm skeptical 4) Quite subjective; I personally don't enjoy 100% humidity and 100 degree temperatures 8 months out of the year in which one is constantly assaulted by mosquitoes and "love bugs" 5) again, subjective, although it's hard to argue that the Bay Area isn't laughable by comparison 6) I doubt you're going to find a 1500 sq ft. 3 bedroom town home for $1k per month (1/4 of what I pay 20 miles south of SF), and you're leaving out other costs, hidden costs, including commute and items related to the lack of public services and much higher utilities costs; the cost of living is lower, but not 75% lower 7) there is much, much greater diversity of food (including Cuban food) in the Bay Area 8) This isn't cheap, even for residents. Last I looked, years ago, it was more expensive than a family pass for the Exploratorium and other far more enriching and entertaining things for kids to. Then there are many negatives. The biggest one, in my opinion, is the lack of diversity. Central Florida had a strong Latin American influence but it's still mainly a white monoculture.
- flubert 10y ago
  >6) I doubt you're going to find a 1500 sq ft. 3 bedroom town home for $1k per month (1/4 of what I pay 20 miles south of SF), and you're leaving out other costs, hidden costs, including commute and items related to the lack of public services and much higher utilities costs; the cost of living is lower, but not 75% lower Are we talking town homes for rent? * 3 beds; 2.5 baths; 1,528 sqft; $1,000/mo https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/Crooked-Pine-Trl-Crestview-FL-32539/2098869585_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/Crooked-Pine-Trl-Crestvie... * 3 beds; 2 baths; 1,863 sqft; $900/mo https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1006-Villaway-W-Sebring-FL-33876/45164097_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1006-Villaway-W-Sebring-F... ...or maybe you'd like to rent a house: * 3 beds; 2 baths; 1,821 sqft; $975/mo https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5693-Highway-4-Baker-FL-32531/45991455_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5693-Highway-4-Baker-FL-3... * 4 beds; 4 baths; 1,700 sqft; $975/mo https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/351-Pine-Ave-Cocoa-FL-32922/43412610_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/351-Pine-Ave-Cocoa-FL-329... ...or maybe buy a house: * 3 beds; 2 baths; 1,564 sqft; EST. MORTGAGE $705/mo https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/FL/fsba,fsbo,fore,new_lt/66768241_zpid/14_rid/150000-200000_price/559-746_mp/1500-_size/35.236646,-76.728516,19.715,-90.900879_rect/5_zm/0_mmm/1_fr/ https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/FL/fsba,fsbo,fore,new_... * 3 beds; 2 baths; 1,661 sqft; $464/mo https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2579-Dogwood-Dr-Cottondale-FL-32431/45285738_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2579-Dogwood-Dr-Cottondal... * 4 beds; 2 baths; 1,541 sqft; EST. MORTGAGE $261/mo https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/362-Palm-Ave-Cocoa-FL-32922/43412627_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/362-Palm-Ave-Cocoa-FL-329...
souprock 10y ago
The tech market exists. The "can you lift 50 pounds" thing is so that you can't usefully sue them when they ask you to move your own PC or monitor. Especially at a non-union job site, the nearest available person tends to do that kind of task. Nobody wants to have to schedule a union-approved object-lifter person to show up. Just a bit to the southeast of you, the tech job market is booming. It sort of focuses on the MLB airport, with Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman, but there are others too. The area has Thales, Raytheon, Harris, and numerous cyberwar startups. Obviously, you do need to enjoy designing things that cause destruction, and it is mighty hard to pass the background checks if you have foreign relatives. If that sounds appealing to you and you can do low-level hacking (you won't freak out over assembly language), send a note to acahalan at gmail.

s3r3nity 10y ago

Sidebar / off topic: highly recommend the cuban espresso in Florida if you're into coffee...blew me away when I had it for the first time, and is one of the top reasons I look forward to travelling there.

cylinder 10y ago
To me it's just a poorly pulled espresso with a ton of sugar...
- will_brown 10y ago
  Not sure the down votes because you just perfectly described a bad colada. But there is hope they can be delicious, it's the only coffee I drink, and I even wanted to bring Cuban coffee in a can to market cubanshot.weebly.com of course months after contacting coffee canners Starbucks came out with their doubleshot cubano which is terrible. Basically the difference between a real/good colada and what you described is whipping and creation of a paste in the beginning before the pull. Remain open minded
  - protomyth 10y ago
    I see a lot of canned coffee so there seems to be a bit of market beyond Starbucks. I would ditch the green though. I guess it depends on can you produce at a scale that would make you profitable.
    - amenod 10y ago
      +1 for ditching the green, agree 100%...
Dangeranger 10y ago
Colada is life for me in Miami. 4-5 shots of Cafe Cubano to share with friends, or just drink yourself and feel the buzz.
- ajmurmann 10y ago
  What the existence of Colada says about the culture is so awesome. I want to be part of that so bad!
tbomb 10y ago
Cafe colada is what I miss most about Miami, having now moved to California :(

OhHeyItsE 10y ago

What's the tech job market like there? Or are you fully remote like above?

netizzio 10y ago
The tech industry in Central Florida has grown in recent years and seems to be quite strong at present with companies like Disney, Universal, Deloitte hiring lots of tech folks, and a small but growing startup scene. Salaries aren't going to be the same as the west coast though (obviously), and most of the senior developer roles I've seen cap out at around the $100k-ish mark. With the far cheaper cost of living though, it goes a lot further.
- tbomb 10y ago
  Don't forget the defense industry, a lot of my friends who graduated from UCF went to Boeing, Lockheed, and Homeland Security
  - lostmsu 10y ago
    Do they hire non-citizens?
- OhHeyItsE 10y ago
  Practically, I know it should go further. I think about doing it all the time. But it sure sounds daunting to take a 30-50% pay cut to move to an area with (significantly) fewer jobs.
itomato 10y ago
I spent a few months trying to get (re)established in FL last year as a Consultant. The major market for tech jobs come from health care. Not a very progressive or interesting market. Its mostly the typical Windows/VMWare, Microsoft stuff. A little bit of Devops here and there, and a smattering of low level development/coding work. As a tooling and process consultant focused on Atlassian's tools, there's very little for me.

nojvek 10y ago

Very tempted to visit Florida

JustSomeNobody 10y ago
As a Fl native, it's a great place to live. The political situation sucks, but ya can't have everything. Edit: Some tips for visitors. Most beaches are beautiful and most have free access. Enjoy, but wear sunscreen (and keep reapplying). Oh and bring lots of water; playing at the beach dehydrates you fast. If you pick a Gulf Coast beach (Clearwater is nice), as you enter the water, skoot your feet on the sand. That flutter you feel across the top of your foot is a minor stingray. Won't hurt you unless you step on it. Don't bring an umbrella. The lightning here will kill you. Just plan on not being outside in the summer during the hours of 2pm - 6pm. Georgia drivers ... can't. I jest. But seriously... UF and FSU football... you will get so tired of seeing those school colors. :)
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  > Georgia drivers ... can't. I jest. But seriously... Triggered Atlantan
- wil421 10y ago
  >Georgia drivers ... can't. I jest. But seriously... We have no patience for slow or dumb drivers in Atlanta. Go Dawgs. The panhandle has nice beaches as well.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  You can go outside. Just do it with a Gore-tex jacket and brimmed oilskin hat on. It's like an umbrella that won't evert in the wind or act as a lightning rod. If you feel a tingly sensation on the back of your neck or detect a sharp ozone-like smell, crouch down and cover your ears. Don't play golf or baseball in the rain. If you hear thunder or see lightning, go inside. Football is the unhealthy sports obsession of the South. You would think that in February, after the pro season ends, you would get a reprieve from it, but no, you don't. Baseball is the alternate sport. Basketball is a legend from a distant land, and nobody even knows what a hockey is. Stanley Cup playoffs are happening right now, and local television news would rather air a 10-minute story about some high school football team practicing for next year's season instead of 10 seconds just saying that the Senators beat the Bruins. If you don't love football, you will get so sick of football.

quietmonkey 10y ago

Isn't Disney pretty much the same thing as SeaWorld these days?

baddox 10y ago

That sounds great, but one of the common rebuttals is that the job market (remote or otherwise) may be more challenging outside of the Bay Area.

nosequel 10y ago
As a full time work-from-home person for the past 8 years I'd love for that to continue to be most people's assumption. :)
freyr 10y ago
What good is a "hot job market" that can't keep up with the housing market or cover the costs of raising a family?
- metaphorm 10y ago
  its "good" for chewing up and spitting out 22-29 year olds. and people wonder why so many Silicon Valley tech firms have problems with "bro culture".
- arebop 10y ago
  Treading water in a tech job in the bay area is kind of like being in a "normal" job (such as architect, as in buildings not software) any where else, except you don't have to worry about layoffs or a tyrannical boss because you can always just get another job. Sure it would be great to have both a high income (relative to local costs) and a job you love and plenty of other options, but if one must choose... I choose to trade away the upper-middle-class lifestyle in order to have enjoyable and impactful work in my chosen field of software engineering.
matwood 10y ago
Keep in mind there is a huge sliding scale between the job market in SF and BFE.
phkahler 10y ago
>> That sounds great, but one of the common rebuttals is that the job market (remote or otherwise) may be more challenging outside of the Bay Area. It amazes me how many people in tech can't do simple math. Hint: The Detroit area job market is on fire, but you will pass it over if your idea of compensation doesn't take into account cost of living. I'm sure there are several other cities that can say the same.

hamandcheese 10y ago

Welcome, from a remote dev in Orlando (and fellow Disney pass holder)!

netizzio 10y ago

Welcome! From another remote dev in Orlando (though not a disney pass holder... yet).

sedky 10y ago

What is your tech stack ? I would love to be remote some day.

archeantus 10y ago
I do native iOS development. I'm very much a proponent of remote work, and I wish more Bay Area companies would embrace it. If done right, it can lead to higher satisfaction from employees as well as increased productivity and reduced costs!
- sdflkd 10y ago
  My fear is it also makes you the first to go.

ryandrake 10y ago

I used to live in south Florida (Ft. Lauderdale) and would move back in a heartbeat if I could find steady remote work. It's great, and still relatively cheap!

lordnacho 10y ago

8) as a resident, kids have year round disney passes What? Surely you pay for those? Also what about the humidity? Every time I've been there it's like a sauna.

apearson 10y ago
You get used to the heat and humidity after a while.
Rudism 10y ago
You pay for them, but it's not much more expensive than a single park admission. So you basically pay to go once, then can continue going as often as you'd like for the whole year at no cost.

rastapasta42 10y ago

Never thought I would see Oviedo on HN! I spend my high-school years in Oviedo but I had trouble finding jobs around the area. I had my first job in downtown Orlando which was 40-50 min commute, and I recently moved to Tampa Bay area. Oviedo is a decent area -- good air quality, close to nature but at the same time close to urban areas.

chaostheory 10y ago

Grew up in FL. Weather is actually terrible about 8 months of the year. It's too humid and hot. The climate is perfect for mosquitos, forcing you to wear long sleeve clothing at night during this humid weather (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalitis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalitis). Insects and arachnids thrive in FL's swampy climate. People who aren't from either that or a jungle need to take time to adjust. Imagine being sweaty after walking outside for a few feet. AC is a must and you will pay around $200-300/month (maybe more) for electricity without an EV (on the bright side your house is 2-3 times larger than the Bay Area). Great place for solar. When I think about it, FL is probably the Australia of the US; there are a lot of things there that will kill you. (Almost every Floridian knows not to let their children play near water when it gets dark. The ones that don't end up on the news.) The good part is that it's easy to grow avocado and mango trees. Also unlike earthquakes, hurricanes are easier to forecast. Other than water and the beaches, there's nothing to do compared to the SF Bay Area. Yes you can swim and surf in the beaches but due to decades of pollution, 'sea lice' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_louse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_louse) has been prevalent since I was a kid. Also due to erosion, most beach sand is now crushed rock. That said, the water is way nicer than anywhere in the SF Bay Area. If you like diving or snorkeling, you can hunt for lobsters yourself. Unfortunately, due to damage to the eco system, sharks are also a lot more aggressive, and they've been known to attack surfers as well for years now. Still, in some parts the water is so clear that you can see fish below while on a boat. Florida is primarily a giant retirement community for northerners, making it mostly a nice giant boring, suburb unless you are attending a party college in the far north. Miami has a club scene but it gets old. It's not NYC or LA. Cuban food is amazing though and even if it is available in another state; it's not the same. Forgot to add that there's less diversity in FL compared to other metros, even if you just compare it to other metros in the South it's still less. Maybe things have changed since I left?

theparanoid 10y ago
Interviewing in Seattle at Amazon, arguably the outdoor recreation capital of the US, only one of the interviewers had had time to take advantage.
- 10y ago

DiNovi 10y ago

Orlando... really...?

sideband 10y ago

I also moved from the the Bay Area to Oviedo, FL not long ago (fun fact about our little town: Brian Acton, co-founder of WhatsApp, grew up here). I agree with everything on your list, and I'll add one more item: 9) Greater thought diversity and tolerance for opposing viewpoints. When I lived in the Bay Area it seemed that too many people I interacted with were of similar backgrounds: very educated, high income and similar political and social values. While I loved my years there, at times I felt like I was in a cultural bubble insulated from the real world. Worse, I saw people professionally shunned for expressing opinions that fell outside the mainstream. People here in the Orlando area are all types and they seem to love to discuss their differences and even try to learn from them. I can't begin to imagine someone suffering professionally only for their opinions here. It's very refreshing. I have not lived in enough places to guess if this is a Florida vs California thing, or an Orlando area vs Bay Area thing, or a Bay Area vs everywhere else thing, but I think it's certainly a positive difference.

froindt 10y ago
> When I lived in the Bay Area it seemed that too many people I interacted with were of similar backgrounds: very educated, high income and similar political and social values. I think this is one of the most important things as a whole. I am in Iowa (a red except for the counties holding the ~5 largest cities) and have a friend who is in DC. She said she mentioned having a couple friends from high school who were conservative and that made her weird in her friend group. The rest were in the DC bubble, effectively not knowing people from "the other side" on a personal level. The political polarization is really bad for the country. The concept that you can agree with the left on some issues and the right on others isn't popular. Personally I take the position that the "true, objective best" (if there was such a thing) solution is closer to the middle than the far right or far left.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  OT politics and viewpoints are deeply ingrained. Two people with different views could be given the exact same facts and come away with vastly different conclusions. That never changes. The way we with with people we disagree with does change, and it indeed changes us as well.

doingmyting 10y ago

.NET remote developer here. I make Bay Area salary ($185K/yr) with full insurance benefits, transit allowance and stock options while living in rural NH. The best of both worlds. I also hope everyone thinks remote is difficult so it'll stay this way lol.

StillBored 10y ago

I lived in the Orlando area for a few years. Finding software shops is challenging (there are some, but you haven't heard of them), but there is a fair amount of defense contracting work. So, if you can get over the fact that your probably working on weapons systems or something related, the work definitely can be technically challenging. Plus, both UF and UCF have pretty decent comp sci/comp engineering programs so there is local talent, but it doesn't tend to stay in the Orlando area.

sidlls 10y ago

1) And this shows: public services and family friendly recreation are basically non-existent by comparison with the Bay 2) Possibly a gem in the rough, but having family who teach in OCPS I'm skeptical 4) Quite subjective; I personally don't enjoy 100% humidity and 100 degree temperatures 8 months out of the year in which one is constantly assaulted by mosquitoes and "love bugs" 5) again, subjective, although it's hard to argue that the Bay Area isn't laughable by comparison 6) I doubt you're going to find a 1500 sq ft. 3 bedroom town home for $1k per month (1/4 of what I pay 20 miles south of SF), and you're leaving out other costs, hidden costs, including commute and items related to the lack of public services and much higher utilities costs; the cost of living is lower, but not 75% lower 7) there is much, much greater diversity of food (including Cuban food) in the Bay Area 8) This isn't cheap, even for residents. Last I looked, years ago, it was more expensive than a family pass for the Exploratorium and other far more enriching and entertaining things for kids to. Then there are many negatives. The biggest one, in my opinion, is the lack of diversity. Central Florida had a strong Latin American influence but it's still mainly a white monoculture.

flubert 10y ago
>6) I doubt you're going to find a 1500 sq ft. 3 bedroom town home for $1k per month (1/4 of what I pay 20 miles south of SF), and you're leaving out other costs, hidden costs, including commute and items related to the lack of public services and much higher utilities costs; the cost of living is lower, but not 75% lower Are we talking town homes for rent? * 3 beds; 2.5 baths; 1,528 sqft; $1,000/mo https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/Crooked-Pine-Trl-Crestview-FL-32539/2098869585_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/Crooked-Pine-Trl-Crestvie... * 3 beds; 2 baths; 1,863 sqft; $900/mo https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1006-Villaway-W-Sebring-FL-33876/45164097_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1006-Villaway-W-Sebring-F... ...or maybe you'd like to rent a house: * 3 beds; 2 baths; 1,821 sqft; $975/mo https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5693-Highway-4-Baker-FL-32531/45991455_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5693-Highway-4-Baker-FL-3... * 4 beds; 4 baths; 1,700 sqft; $975/mo https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/351-Pine-Ave-Cocoa-FL-32922/43412610_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/351-Pine-Ave-Cocoa-FL-329... ...or maybe buy a house: * 3 beds; 2 baths; 1,564 sqft; EST. MORTGAGE $705/mo https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/FL/fsba,fsbo,fore,new_lt/66768241_zpid/14_rid/150000-200000_price/559-746_mp/1500-_size/35.236646,-76.728516,19.715,-90.900879_rect/5_zm/0_mmm/1_fr/ https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/FL/fsba,fsbo,fore,new_... * 3 beds; 2 baths; 1,661 sqft; $464/mo https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2579-Dogwood-Dr-Cottondale-FL-32431/45285738_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2579-Dogwood-Dr-Cottondal... * 4 beds; 2 baths; 1,541 sqft; EST. MORTGAGE $261/mo https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/362-Palm-Ave-Cocoa-FL-32922/43412627_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/362-Palm-Ave-Cocoa-FL-329...

souprock 10y ago

The tech market exists. The "can you lift 50 pounds" thing is so that you can't usefully sue them when they ask you to move your own PC or monitor. Especially at a non-union job site, the nearest available person tends to do that kind of task. Nobody wants to have to schedule a union-approved object-lifter person to show up. Just a bit to the southeast of you, the tech job market is booming. It sort of focuses on the MLB airport, with Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman, but there are others too. The area has Thales, Raytheon, Harris, and numerous cyberwar startups. Obviously, you do need to enjoy designing things that cause destruction, and it is mighty hard to pass the background checks if you have foreign relatives. If that sounds appealing to you and you can do low-level hacking (you won't freak out over assembly language), send a note to acahalan at gmail.