35 ms·

Exercise 'keeps the mind sharp' in over-50s, study finds

317 points by sjcsjc 10y ago

oblio 10y ago
"Mens sana in corpore sano", says 10000th study :) The real question: is there anyone out there that really debates that exercising constantly = better, longer life?
- epalmer 10y ago
  I'm 63 and a bit overweight. But I have lost 50 lbs in the last 2 years. Wife and I try to exercise for 50 to 70 minutes a day Monday-Friday. We are up at 4:30 am and at the gym at 5:10. We feel better doing this for ourselves. Some weekends we go to the gym and usually, when we do we stay longer. I'm a believer.
  - Banthum 10y ago
    I'm with you but why so insanely early? 6:00am is early; at 4:30 you're waking up before the crack of dawn! Heck, I'm lucky if I can be asleep by 4:30am...
    - z3t4 10y ago
      you should get some routines.
    - epalmer 10y ago
      Wife and I work downtown and we take are time getting ready to leave. We drive separate because we don't work near each other. I go to bed anywhere from 8:30 to 10. I like 8 hours of sleep but most nights get 7 to 7 1/2.
    - epalmer 10y ago
      The gym I go to is open 24x7 and there are people leaving when we arrive and I thought we were early.
      - xarope 10y ago
        I remember going to gold's gym in austin (this would have been in the 90's, no idea if gold's is still there) at 5am, and some of the people there were already well into their workouts, if not also leaving for the day(!).
        lkbm 10y ago
        We still have a number of Gold's in Austin, but the one by my office is 5AM–10PM on weekdays, so no one is finishing up at 5am.
    - mitchell_h 10y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiHHOL3pH-I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiHHOL3pH-I Mike Tyson was one of the best mental fighters ever.
  - bosie 10y ago
    Well done you. 50 lbs is huge. Since you are up so early and only have 40mins from waking up to gym, mind sharing your diet too (what you eat when)?
    - z3t4 10y ago
      if you exercise 5+ days/week you dont have to worry about diet. its often the other way around that many people strugle with eating enough to gain weight/muscles.
      - 3131s 10y ago
        Especially so if you combine weight training with something anaerobic like sprinting. I still follow a few basic dietary heuristics like not eating packaged foods, no sodas, and having the core of my diet be vegetables with lots of healthy oils, but past that I eat as much as possible and I am very, very lean at 82 kg.
      - CalRobert 10y ago
        This is pretty much completely untrue. Anecdata, but I thought if I exercised like crazy I could eat terribly and be fine. I was wrong, and remained massively obese. When I started actually tracking my intake and eating healthier I lost massive amounts of weight, without any change in the exercise routine. It's been 10 years and I still have to watch my calories like a hawk if I want to stay below obese (I've quit trying for not being overweight, though that would be nice). I swim 1250 meters a day. Previously I've cycled 24 miles a day, or run 30-45 minutes a day, depending on what worked best with my work/home situation. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/sep/19/exercise-dieting-public-health https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/sep/19/exercis...
        pc86 10y ago
        > When I started actually tracking my intake This is the key point. Eating healthy is absolutely a good idea and helps you perform better but most people eat a lot more than they think they do. When I started exercising I lost 50 pounds over a year and a half or so without a single change to my (absolute garbage) diet. Saying you can work out 5x week and eat anything is idiotic, but the key to weight loss is to track your calories, not to eat healthier. You should eat healthier for other reasons.
  - epaga 10y ago
    That's awesome - but may I ask, if you're up at 4:30am, when do you go to bed? Do you nap?
    - epalmer 10y ago
      I go to bed between 8:30 and 10. Depends on what is going on. My kids are grown (19, 24) but they live with us right now. So I usually want to spend a little time with them if they are around. One is in graduate school and one works in the evening with disadvantaged kids in a stm enrichment program. I do nap. Hey I'm 63. I have an office with a door at work and I take a power nap 4 out of 5 days. I love a power nap. Usually 12 to 18 minutes or so. I've been up all night tonight testing 3 server replacements from home. So no exercise today. Drinking a glass of wine as I wind down from the testing.
  - cpursley 10y ago
    > I have lost 50 lbs in the last 2 years That's awesome progress!
  - pc86 10y ago
    My wife and I are on basically the same schedule. No kids which I'm sure makes it much easier but the alarm is 4:30, gym by 5:15, asleep between 9 and 10, usually closer to 9. We both do a lot of weights and HIIT so try to stick to 3 days on, 1 day off. It's also helpful to have that rotating schedule in case something comes up.
- tomjen3 10y ago
  Nobody credible. The real question is how do you get people of their ass and start exercising? This includes me, I feel much better on days I make it to the gym.
  - _Wintermute 10y ago
    Stop treating it as exercise and take up a physically active hobby. Hill walking, cycle touring, squash etc.
    - xarope 10y ago
      I think treating it as part of one's lifestyle, as you are probably alluding to, and not as an exercise routine/diet/etc, is the key.
    - dv35z 10y ago
      I agree with this. The "trick" for me was squash. Was never a "sports person" but always thought ping-pong was fun. Approached squash like it was a fun, goofy ping-pong hobby (as its basically fun with no skill whatsoever). Ended up feeling the competitive drive kick in. Got a few lessons so I felt confident that I was making progress. Now I've been doing it several times a week for over a year, gone to a few tournaments, and have a good roster of 10-15 people (now friends!) whom I play regularly. I think as technology people, we often grew up missing the athletic / team / social aspect associated with sports, which helps make it actually desirable to keep as a lifestyle activity. I now have a good group of friends from this one hobby (where before, I'd have been more likely to just have video game buddies, drinkimh buddies, etc).
  - eyan 10y ago
    > The real question is how do you get people of their ass and start exercising? You don't. You wait for them until they decide and act on their decision.
    - pizza234 10y ago
      That is not an effective strategy. Decisions are backed by the environment (in a broad sense), so it's important to understand (for the sake of effectiveness) which changes can be done to the environment, to stimulate taking such decision[s].
- Ductapemaster 10y ago
  Just because the high level effects of a study like this are commonly understood, and predictable, it doesn't mean the science isn't valuable! Digging deeper into things like this helps us understand our inner workings better and has immense value (not speaking to this particular study - just in general).
- stdbrouw 10y ago
  > The real question: is there anyone out there that really debates that exercising constantly = better, longer life? The real question is: how much better, how much longer? A priori any real-valued metric has a 50% chance of being net positive, but that doesn't mean the effect will be large enough to matter.
  - tajen 10y ago
    Compound studies find that 1hr of sports = 7hrs of additional life (up to 7hrs a week).
    - krrrh 10y ago
      Do you have a link for that?
      - tajen 10y ago
        -No- YES! Found it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14117082 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14117082 (sorry I was on mobile for my earlier comment) If NYT is paywalled: http://wncn.com/2017/04/17/dr-campbell-can-1-hour-of-running-add-7-hours-to-your-life/ http://wncn.com/2017/04/17/dr-campbell-can-1-hour-of-running...
    - dorgo 10y ago
      1h sports per week for 30 years means 7h * 52 * 30 = 10920h additional life. Equals to 1.25 additional years. So for 30 years of exercise you get about 1 additionl year? I hoped for more :-P
      - xarope 10y ago
        I think it's not just the extra 1 year (assuming that much), but also the quality of life. I'd rather be a sprightly 80 yr old (sadly, I'm more than halfway there now), than chair/bed bound.
      - Nition 10y ago
        Or you could say only 1.07 years, if you hate exercise. Since your excercise time could have been spent doing something else. :-P
- mike_ivanov 10y ago
  It depends on the type of exercise, how intense it is, when, etc, etc. You can totally wreck yourself by doing it wrong.
pavfarb 10y ago
So that's why Taleb deadlifts like a madman.
- xarope 10y ago
  TIL (!). I deadlift (amongst other things), as I believe it's a fundamental movement (what Dan John calls "pick heavy stuff off the floor"). Here's a writeup Taleb did about strength training (whether I agree or disagree in totality is a separate issue, but we can all agree to 80% and disagree on the rest): https://medium.com/@nntaleb/strength-training-is-learning-from-tail-events-7aa2c074569d https://medium.com/@nntaleb/strength-training-is-learning-fr...
  - 3131s 10y ago
    I'm not sure that I agree with a lot of that article, but one piece really resonates with me. I had a chronic hamstring injury from sprinting (tendinitis, with a couple recurring minor pulls over the years) and physical therapy was a complete waste of time. The first physical therapist I went to told me that it would take over a year of sessions to recover from a grade 1 tear (which is absolute bullshit). She had me doing a bunch of different weird balancing exercises and working with elastic bands. I dealt with this injury for years until I started doing 1) foam rolling and myofascial release, and more importantly 2) squatting, deadlifting, and olympic lifts. The difference was almost overnight, and I haven't had a single issue with my hamstring in years now.
    - xarope 10y ago
      Thumbs up on this, we can agree on the basics and disagree on the minutiae; after all, as individuals, we are different to some degree.
2845197541 10y ago
On one side of my family retirement for my grandparents meant long days vegetating in front of the television with little dogs to pet. Church on Sundays were really their only time out. This brought dementia by age 80 and a host of other issues and they are on their way out. On the other side my grandfather plays basketball, golfs, runs, reads a book every few days, even drinks at a bar. No dementia. Sharp as a tack. Dare I say... no church.
- barking 10y ago
  church attendence may lead to dementia, suggests study.
  - 2845197541 10y ago
    I couldn't help it.
    - jgrahamc 10y ago
      I wish you had refrained. It really detracted from the rest of what you had to say.
      - flintchip 10y ago
        God forbid someone tells a joke.
        abrookewood 10y ago
        Yeah .. they're not really appreciated on HN. I'm guessing because they want to avoid the whole Reddit-style comment chain of meta-jokes, one liners etc. It's a little disappointing, but if you want a laugh, there are plenty of other places to find them. If it keeps HN a place for more serious discussion, then I'm fine with it.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
mike_ivanov 10y ago
Or - there is a confounding factor that makes people both sharp and willing to exercise.
- sooheon 10y ago
  This is the most common one line reply to any study, and it's a pet peeve of mine. If you actually read past the headline, you'd see this was not a population study, but a review of experimental ones, where your "confounding factor" is literally the fact that experimenters asked people to exercise. Please, be skeptical of studies, but don't be so arrogant to presume authors aren't capable of the most elementary scientific reasoning.
  - aaron-lebo 10y ago
    That's not arrogance, only good science. You'd be surprised how many "obvious" things get through peer review.
    - sooheon 10y ago
      If you read the study and point out a flaw, thank you for your contribution. If you make a zero effort "observation" which makes it clear you didn't even skim the abstract, you're adding nothing of value.
      - aaron-lebo 10y ago
        You're right. It's not arrogance though, just laziness?
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        sooheon 10y ago
        Sure, that too. Just cause I'm feeling extra pedantic, I'll point out that of those who are too lazy to click the link (the majority of people, including me most days), there is a small subset who presume their uninformed comment can dismantle the entire study--the arrogant.
vixen99 10y ago
I found "Spark! How exercise will improve the performance of your brain" (Ratey/Hagerman) to be a good popular summary of research in this field. (No connection with the authors!).
clumsysmurf 10y ago
Somewhat related, today I read "Researchers found that the foot's impact during walking sends pressure waves through the arteries that significantly modify and can increase the supply of blood to the brain." https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170424141340.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170424141340.h...
- acchow 10y ago
  What is the evolutionary explanation for this?
  - remline 10y ago
    Navigation is thought to be central to the evolution of our cognition as it is both complex and essential for survival and propagation, hence the "the method of loci" as a memory tactic. Walking was the primary or possibly only time when navigation was important for most early people..
  - aaron-lebo 10y ago
    Does there have to be? Doesn't evolution produce a lot of things which are side-effects not goals?
    - sheldoan 10y ago
      yep. the biological term is "spandrel" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spandrel_(biology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spandrel_(biology)
  - drcross 10y ago
    Evolution doesn't care as long as you reach reproductive age and carry out that task properly.
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      ... and live long after that in good health, to support your offsprings and help them succeed in their reproduction.
posterboy 10y ago
correlation causation fallicy anyone?
Myrmornis 10y ago
I'm 39 and I can't do anything with my brain nowadays after exercising, so I'm looking forward to that changing when I get to 50.
ck425 10y ago
Does anyone else worry about staying fit as an office worker? As much as I enjoy my career, I might give serious consideration to moving into something more physical in future. While you can easily fit in a decent amount of exercise outside of work if you only work 40 hours, it strikes me as much more efficient to make your work exercise in and off itself. I spent one summer working as a software engineer intern with 6 weeks in between working at a summer camp where I was on my feet all day every day. When I got back to the office my mood and focus were sky high compared to before but I never had to try to do exercise at summer camp, the job itself just was exercise.
- hacker_9 10y ago
  You have options; You could bike to work, or go for a run in your lunch break, or instead go to the gym after work.
  - ck425 10y ago
    I already do run to work, and it helps, as well as a reasonably active hobby. But there's a big different between running to work and a job that keeps you on your feet and moving for 40 hours a week.
  - jcbeard 10y ago
    Many companies in the US are providing gyms for their employees, making staying in decent shape that much easier. I definitely take advantage. Even when I don't have time for a full workout, I can hop on treadmill for a 30 minute run and be back to work in 40 minutes (assuming showers aren't all occupied).
- tallanvor 10y ago
  If you can find a job that you love that requires moderate activity, and funds a lifestyle you can get enjoyment from, that's obviously great. But this study doesn't suggest that you need to do this to stay sharp. And, at least in the US, the statistics show that average lifespan has actually been decreasing for people in blue collar jobs. Part of this may be that physically demanding jobs simply cause the body to wear out faster or because you end up injuring yourself and having limited mobility making it harder for you to stay active. And, of course, a big part of it is most likely that blue collar jobs usually don't include great healthcare plans, and if you're earning less money, you may end up with a plan that really isn't affordable if something major happens. It seems that a white collar job with maybe 5 days a week where you workout for an hour - some sort of combination of strength training and aerobic activity - is probably the best middle ground we have right now.
agumonkey 10y ago
I wonder about travel too. My mind buzzes whenever I'm a new environment. I now wonder about walking far...
dvcrn 10y ago
My problem with exercise is simply time. There are a million things I want to do and with a 10-7 work shift, I just can't do much. Staying 30 minutes longer happens easily so it's 7:30. Commuting to the gym would take another 20-30. 1h in the gym and it's 9 (or later). Commuting an hour home and it's 10. Go to supermarket, maybe cook something up and it could easily be 11 already. This leaves 1-2h max to do anything else, given I am not dead from the gym. Now spinning up the brain to focus on something creative also needs a bit of time. Morning gym is hard as well. All gyms around my home open from 9:30/10:00 which is when I have to be on the way to the office already. So the time slots that are free are very competitive. Pick one: Do I go to the gym? Do I watch a movie with the gf? Do I program? Do I learn the next grammar chapter? Do I work on other hobbies that I've been putting off too long? Do I meet friends and catch up on social life? To be honest, this 'problem' makes me currently think of switching into a part time job, just so I have more time for the things I actually care about. (Part time remote for optimum happiness but that might be impossible to come by)
- crusso 10y ago
  Some years back, I re-evaluated how I spend my free time (not working, not with the family). I knew that I mostly surfed online or watched TV. I decided to only watch TV if I could be in the midst of a workout. I spent a few hundred bucks getting some basic exercise equipment for my home and I began using it almost every day after work in the evenings. I'm very pleased with that decision. It's produced great results for me, both physically and mentally.
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    There is a really good npr story on this. Basically you deny yourself a specific pleasure unless you do a chore. I use for for podcasts and indoor cycling. I could only poscast when i cycled. Worked really Well. Indoor cycling is mentally hard, but I looked forward to it so I could hear my podcasts.
- Gustomaximus 10y ago
  Best us to work it into your day like run at lunch and eat at your desk after. Or get off a train stop early and walk. Also I keep a dumbell under my home desk (not confident enough to do this at open plan work office) so if on the phone or having a YouTube moment type thing I do a few exercises.
theprop 10y ago
Do not say you're too busy to exercise. Your productivity is much higher when you exercise. Do not say you're too old to exercise. The older you are, the more crucial it is. Get in the habit. Start with even just 2 intense minutes a day. Once you're in the habit, you'll work out longer.
- r_singh 10y ago
  Precisely, one should quit all excuses! My father was prescribed to storvas (for cholesterol) over a decade ago... luckily he is an avid reader and soon found out what road the permanent meds lead to. He quit the meds and started working out consistently (never mind spondylitis which he combatted with bed rest) for 10 years (and still continuing). Today, he's over 50 and is killing it in every aspect in life. His mind is sharp, business is good and best of all he can run over 6kms in 30 minutes (plus all the weights and stuff)! He's now reducing running for his knees and cycles out youngsters half his age 3 times a week (with 3 times weight training). This could've been a very different picture if he continued with prescribed meds. After experiencing this, he's purchased workout plans for everyone in the family for 9 years straight and wants us to treat workouts like we brush our teeth (nevermind if we don't get competitive). I work way better if I exercise, it's like the clock for my life even in my 20s. Never want to lose the habit.
  - ams6110 10y ago
    I just hate it. Not that I haven't tried. I've tried running, weights, walking. It's boring, and makes me feel tired and irritable. I just want to go to bed after exercise. Not my thing.
    - GiorgioG 10y ago
      Same here. But...being dead isn't my thing either so I supposed I should keep trying to make it a habit anyway.
    - tcoff91 10y ago
      What about hiking, rock climbing, mountain biking, stand-up paddle boarding, etc... Is there nothing physical you enjoy doing?
ruleabidinguser 10y ago
Meh. I'll take the shitty brain.
spodek 10y ago
Saying that exercise keeps the mind sharp normalizes not exercising. I prefer to think of exercise as normal and sitting around as the mind-dulling deviation. I would say: Not exercising can dull the mind. or A sedentary lifestyle instead of getting your heart pumping can dull the mind.
Allower 10y ago
FUCK EXERCISE. I HAVE TIME, AND DONT FUCKING WANT TO DO IT
nepotism2016 10y ago
I hate direct exercising, ie running around my local area or going to the gym. However what I do love is participating in activities which require exercising; mountain biking, table tennis, football, hiking and badminton. I love all of these sports for its social benefits and most of the time I forget I'm exercising :)
zeteo 10y ago
Looking at the funnel plot in fig. 3 in the linked meta-analysis [1], the high precision studies (standard error < 0.268) are clustered around an effect size of 0. The overall positive effect derives exclusively from the medium and low-precision studies, with several visible outliers well to the right influencing the mean significantly. The medium and low-precision studies had problems with one or more of the following: "randomisation; allocation concealment; blinding of therapists (intervention supervisors); blinding of participants; blinding of outcome assessors; handling of incomplete data (use of intention-to-treat analysis); selective reporting and any other risk of bias." [1] Also, the result was only statistically significant for poor quality control groups that didn't engage in any shared activity: "When the control group involved either no contact (eg, waiting list, usual care; p<0.01) or education (eg, computer course, health lectures; p=0.01) the estimate was statistically significant. Where the control condition was exposed to an active control (eg, stretching; p=0.17) or social group (p=0.62), the effect size was still positive but no longer statistically significant." [1] In summary, a few poor quality studies with large bias account for most if not all of the effect reported in this meta-analysis. [1] http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/30/bjsports-2016-096587 http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/30/bjsports-2016-0...
- daphneokeefe 10y ago
  Thank you for spending the time to assess the validity of the claimed result, and for taking the time to explain it to us. This is a great example of the frequently poor quality of reported scientific studies.
- criddell 10y ago
  Thank you for posting this. I almost went to the gym!
- QSIITurbo 10y ago
  If people used their time to study and learn new things instead of fretting about their exercise, they'd be able to interpret the results of studies like these.
  - 10y ago
mycoborea 10y ago
Purely anecdotal: I'm in my early 30s and find a brisk run to have a huge positive effect on my mental function and general energy levels for the rest of my day (I work in biotech and spend half my day in the lab, half behind a screen). In fact, I noticed this difference my very first (pitiful) day of running.
readhn 10y ago
Can a person overcome lack of exercise by eating healthy? Can a person overcome lack of good nutrition by exercising regularly ? Exercise goes hand in hand with nutrition IMO. People who exercise tend to eat better and healthier foods. If someone did not exercise routinely - they could easily improve their health by eating properly! What is more important? healthy nutrition or regular physical activity or both?! * And dont forget about about sleep!!!
- itchyouch 10y ago
  It's probably around 70-80% nutrition and 20-30% exercise/activity.
Mankhool 10y ago
As someone who is in his fifties, and just took my first real break from the gym in 40 years (2 months off) I can easily say I don't miss it. I still walk to/from work, which is about a 12km round trip, 5 times a week. And although I have considered never picking up a weight again, I know the benefits of weight bearing exercise and so, sometime this year, will go back to they gym, but less frequently and for a shorter duration. And never forget that 50% of your health is nutrition.
- itchyouch 10y ago
  People are so very emotionally tied to food they get blinded when it comes to "proper" nutrition. For technical folk, I think if we start phrasing nutrition alongside "limiting chemical reagents" all of a sudden the mind starts thinking about making sure all the proper reagents are available in abundant supply for the body.
js2 10y ago
Recent study ("Running as a Key Lifestyle Medicine for Longevity"): Abstract: Running is a popular and convenient leisure-time physical activity (PA) with a significant impact on longevity. In general, runners have a 25%–40% reduced risk of premature mortality and live approximately 3 years longer than non-runners. Recently, specific questions have emerged regarding the extent of the health benefits of running versus other types of PA, and perhaps more critically, whether there are diminishing returns on health and mortality outcomes with higher amounts of running. This review details the findings surrounding the impact of running on various health outcomes and premature mortality, highlights plausible underlying mechanisms linking running with chronic disease prevention and longevity, identifies the estimated additional life expectancy among runners and other active individuals, and discusses whether there is adequate evidence to suggest that longevity benefits are attenuated with higher doses of running. Conclusion: There is compelling evidence that running provides significant health benefits for the prevention of chronic diseases and premature mortality regardless of sex, age, body weight, and health conditions. There are strong plausible physiological mechanisms underlying how running can improve health and increase longevity. Running may be the most cost-effective lifestyle medicine from public health perspective, more important than other lifestyle and health risk factors such as smoking, obesity, HTN, and DM. It is not clear, however, how much running is safe and efficacious and whether it is possible to perform an excessive amount of exercise. Also, running may have the most public health benefits, but is not the best exercise for everyone since orthopedic or other medical conditions can restrict its use by many individuals. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0033062017300488 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0033062017... NYT reporting on the study ("An Hour of Running May Add 7 Hours to Your Life"): https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-runn...
H1Supreme 10y ago
Nothing helps me tackle a tough programming problem like a nice, long bike ride. Is it grueling at times? Of course. Are my legs burning by the end? Usually. But, hard physical activity is the perfect way to clear my mind. Plus, the fact that your body will go to shit if you don't exercise. Before I started lifting weights approx 10 years ago, I had back aches from sitting in an office chair all day. After regular, challenging, weight training, those problems vanished. Why? Because my muscles are strong now. If you don't use your muscles, they soon because worthless, and painful. It's amazing how much stronger you get in a short amount of time as a beginner in weight training. You don't like exercising? Boo hoo, no one does. I'd much rather eat pizza and drink beer than put 30 miles on my bike. But, I know it's important, so I suck it up and go. Even when I absolutely don't want to.

317 points by sjcsjc 10y ago

oblio 10y ago

"Mens sana in corpore sano", says 10000th study :) The real question: is there anyone out there that really debates that exercising constantly = better, longer life?

epalmer 10y ago
I'm 63 and a bit overweight. But I have lost 50 lbs in the last 2 years. Wife and I try to exercise for 50 to 70 minutes a day Monday-Friday. We are up at 4:30 am and at the gym at 5:10. We feel better doing this for ourselves. Some weekends we go to the gym and usually, when we do we stay longer. I'm a believer.
- Banthum 10y ago
  I'm with you but why so insanely early? 6:00am is early; at 4:30 you're waking up before the crack of dawn! Heck, I'm lucky if I can be asleep by 4:30am...
  - z3t4 10y ago
    you should get some routines.
  - epalmer 10y ago
    Wife and I work downtown and we take are time getting ready to leave. We drive separate because we don't work near each other. I go to bed anywhere from 8:30 to 10. I like 8 hours of sleep but most nights get 7 to 7 1/2.
  - epalmer 10y ago
    The gym I go to is open 24x7 and there are people leaving when we arrive and I thought we were early.
    - xarope 10y ago
      I remember going to gold's gym in austin (this would have been in the 90's, no idea if gold's is still there) at 5am, and some of the people there were already well into their workouts, if not also leaving for the day(!).
      - lkbm 10y ago
        We still have a number of Gold's in Austin, but the one by my office is 5AM–10PM on weekdays, so no one is finishing up at 5am.
  - mitchell_h 10y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiHHOL3pH-I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiHHOL3pH-I Mike Tyson was one of the best mental fighters ever.
- bosie 10y ago
  Well done you. 50 lbs is huge. Since you are up so early and only have 40mins from waking up to gym, mind sharing your diet too (what you eat when)?
  - z3t4 10y ago
    if you exercise 5+ days/week you dont have to worry about diet. its often the other way around that many people strugle with eating enough to gain weight/muscles.
    - 3131s 10y ago
      Especially so if you combine weight training with something anaerobic like sprinting. I still follow a few basic dietary heuristics like not eating packaged foods, no sodas, and having the core of my diet be vegetables with lots of healthy oils, but past that I eat as much as possible and I am very, very lean at 82 kg.
    - CalRobert 10y ago
      This is pretty much completely untrue. Anecdata, but I thought if I exercised like crazy I could eat terribly and be fine. I was wrong, and remained massively obese. When I started actually tracking my intake and eating healthier I lost massive amounts of weight, without any change in the exercise routine. It's been 10 years and I still have to watch my calories like a hawk if I want to stay below obese (I've quit trying for not being overweight, though that would be nice). I swim 1250 meters a day. Previously I've cycled 24 miles a day, or run 30-45 minutes a day, depending on what worked best with my work/home situation. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/sep/19/exercise-dieting-public-health https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/sep/19/exercis...
      - pc86 10y ago
        > When I started actually tracking my intake This is the key point. Eating healthy is absolutely a good idea and helps you perform better but most people eat a lot more than they think they do. When I started exercising I lost 50 pounds over a year and a half or so without a single change to my (absolute garbage) diet. Saying you can work out 5x week and eat anything is idiotic, but the key to weight loss is to track your calories, not to eat healthier. You should eat healthier for other reasons.
- epaga 10y ago
  That's awesome - but may I ask, if you're up at 4:30am, when do you go to bed? Do you nap?
  - epalmer 10y ago
    I go to bed between 8:30 and 10. Depends on what is going on. My kids are grown (19, 24) but they live with us right now. So I usually want to spend a little time with them if they are around. One is in graduate school and one works in the evening with disadvantaged kids in a stm enrichment program. I do nap. Hey I'm 63. I have an office with a door at work and I take a power nap 4 out of 5 days. I love a power nap. Usually 12 to 18 minutes or so. I've been up all night tonight testing 3 server replacements from home. So no exercise today. Drinking a glass of wine as I wind down from the testing.
- cpursley 10y ago
  > I have lost 50 lbs in the last 2 years That's awesome progress!
- pc86 10y ago
  My wife and I are on basically the same schedule. No kids which I'm sure makes it much easier but the alarm is 4:30, gym by 5:15, asleep between 9 and 10, usually closer to 9. We both do a lot of weights and HIIT so try to stick to 3 days on, 1 day off. It's also helpful to have that rotating schedule in case something comes up.
tomjen3 10y ago
Nobody credible. The real question is how do you get people of their ass and start exercising? This includes me, I feel much better on days I make it to the gym.
- _Wintermute 10y ago
  Stop treating it as exercise and take up a physically active hobby. Hill walking, cycle touring, squash etc.
  - xarope 10y ago
    I think treating it as part of one's lifestyle, as you are probably alluding to, and not as an exercise routine/diet/etc, is the key.
  - dv35z 10y ago
    I agree with this. The "trick" for me was squash. Was never a "sports person" but always thought ping-pong was fun. Approached squash like it was a fun, goofy ping-pong hobby (as its basically fun with no skill whatsoever). Ended up feeling the competitive drive kick in. Got a few lessons so I felt confident that I was making progress. Now I've been doing it several times a week for over a year, gone to a few tournaments, and have a good roster of 10-15 people (now friends!) whom I play regularly. I think as technology people, we often grew up missing the athletic / team / social aspect associated with sports, which helps make it actually desirable to keep as a lifestyle activity. I now have a good group of friends from this one hobby (where before, I'd have been more likely to just have video game buddies, drinkimh buddies, etc).
- eyan 10y ago
  > The real question is how do you get people of their ass and start exercising? You don't. You wait for them until they decide and act on their decision.
  - pizza234 10y ago
    That is not an effective strategy. Decisions are backed by the environment (in a broad sense), so it's important to understand (for the sake of effectiveness) which changes can be done to the environment, to stimulate taking such decision[s].
Ductapemaster 10y ago
Just because the high level effects of a study like this are commonly understood, and predictable, it doesn't mean the science isn't valuable! Digging deeper into things like this helps us understand our inner workings better and has immense value (not speaking to this particular study - just in general).
stdbrouw 10y ago
> The real question: is there anyone out there that really debates that exercising constantly = better, longer life? The real question is: how much better, how much longer? A priori any real-valued metric has a 50% chance of being net positive, but that doesn't mean the effect will be large enough to matter.
- tajen 10y ago
  Compound studies find that 1hr of sports = 7hrs of additional life (up to 7hrs a week).
  - krrrh 10y ago
    Do you have a link for that?
    - tajen 10y ago
      -No- YES! Found it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14117082 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14117082 (sorry I was on mobile for my earlier comment) If NYT is paywalled: http://wncn.com/2017/04/17/dr-campbell-can-1-hour-of-running-add-7-hours-to-your-life/ http://wncn.com/2017/04/17/dr-campbell-can-1-hour-of-running...
  - dorgo 10y ago
    1h sports per week for 30 years means 7h * 52 * 30 = 10920h additional life. Equals to 1.25 additional years. So for 30 years of exercise you get about 1 additionl year? I hoped for more :-P
    - xarope 10y ago
      I think it's not just the extra 1 year (assuming that much), but also the quality of life. I'd rather be a sprightly 80 yr old (sadly, I'm more than halfway there now), than chair/bed bound.
    - Nition 10y ago
      Or you could say only 1.07 years, if you hate exercise. Since your excercise time could have been spent doing something else. :-P
mike_ivanov 10y ago
It depends on the type of exercise, how intense it is, when, etc, etc. You can totally wreck yourself by doing it wrong.

pavfarb 10y ago

So that's why Taleb deadlifts like a madman.

xarope 10y ago
TIL (!). I deadlift (amongst other things), as I believe it's a fundamental movement (what Dan John calls "pick heavy stuff off the floor"). Here's a writeup Taleb did about strength training (whether I agree or disagree in totality is a separate issue, but we can all agree to 80% and disagree on the rest): https://medium.com/@nntaleb/strength-training-is-learning-from-tail-events-7aa2c074569d https://medium.com/@nntaleb/strength-training-is-learning-fr...
- 3131s 10y ago
  I'm not sure that I agree with a lot of that article, but one piece really resonates with me. I had a chronic hamstring injury from sprinting (tendinitis, with a couple recurring minor pulls over the years) and physical therapy was a complete waste of time. The first physical therapist I went to told me that it would take over a year of sessions to recover from a grade 1 tear (which is absolute bullshit). She had me doing a bunch of different weird balancing exercises and working with elastic bands. I dealt with this injury for years until I started doing 1) foam rolling and myofascial release, and more importantly 2) squatting, deadlifting, and olympic lifts. The difference was almost overnight, and I haven't had a single issue with my hamstring in years now.
  - xarope 10y ago
    Thumbs up on this, we can agree on the basics and disagree on the minutiae; after all, as individuals, we are different to some degree.

2845197541 10y ago

On one side of my family retirement for my grandparents meant long days vegetating in front of the television with little dogs to pet. Church on Sundays were really their only time out. This brought dementia by age 80 and a host of other issues and they are on their way out. On the other side my grandfather plays basketball, golfs, runs, reads a book every few days, even drinks at a bar. No dementia. Sharp as a tack. Dare I say... no church.

barking 10y ago
church attendence may lead to dementia, suggests study.
- 2845197541 10y ago
  I couldn't help it.
  - jgrahamc 10y ago
    I wish you had refrained. It really detracted from the rest of what you had to say.
    - flintchip 10y ago
      God forbid someone tells a joke.
      - abrookewood 10y ago
        Yeah .. they're not really appreciated on HN. I'm guessing because they want to avoid the whole Reddit-style comment chain of meta-jokes, one liners etc. It's a little disappointing, but if you want a laugh, there are plenty of other places to find them. If it keeps HN a place for more serious discussion, then I'm fine with it.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]

mike_ivanov 10y ago

Or - there is a confounding factor that makes people both sharp and willing to exercise.

sooheon 10y ago
This is the most common one line reply to any study, and it's a pet peeve of mine. If you actually read past the headline, you'd see this was not a population study, but a review of experimental ones, where your "confounding factor" is literally the fact that experimenters asked people to exercise. Please, be skeptical of studies, but don't be so arrogant to presume authors aren't capable of the most elementary scientific reasoning.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  That's not arrogance, only good science. You'd be surprised how many "obvious" things get through peer review.
  - sooheon 10y ago
    If you read the study and point out a flaw, thank you for your contribution. If you make a zero effort "observation" which makes it clear you didn't even skim the abstract, you're adding nothing of value.
    - aaron-lebo 10y ago
      You're right. It's not arrogance though, just laziness?
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - sooheon 10y ago
        Sure, that too. Just cause I'm feeling extra pedantic, I'll point out that of those who are too lazy to click the link (the majority of people, including me most days), there is a small subset who presume their uninformed comment can dismantle the entire study--the arrogant.

vixen99 10y ago

I found "Spark! How exercise will improve the performance of your brain" (Ratey/Hagerman) to be a good popular summary of research in this field. (No connection with the authors!).

clumsysmurf 10y ago

Somewhat related, today I read "Researchers found that the foot's impact during walking sends pressure waves through the arteries that significantly modify and can increase the supply of blood to the brain." https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170424141340.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170424141340.h...

acchow 10y ago
What is the evolutionary explanation for this?
- remline 10y ago
  Navigation is thought to be central to the evolution of our cognition as it is both complex and essential for survival and propagation, hence the "the method of loci" as a memory tactic. Walking was the primary or possibly only time when navigation was important for most early people..
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  Does there have to be? Doesn't evolution produce a lot of things which are side-effects not goals?
  - sheldoan 10y ago
    yep. the biological term is "spandrel" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spandrel_(biology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spandrel_(biology)
- drcross 10y ago
  Evolution doesn't care as long as you reach reproductive age and carry out that task properly.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    ... and live long after that in good health, to support your offsprings and help them succeed in their reproduction.

posterboy 10y ago

correlation causation fallicy anyone?

Myrmornis 10y ago

I'm 39 and I can't do anything with my brain nowadays after exercising, so I'm looking forward to that changing when I get to 50.

ck425 10y ago

Does anyone else worry about staying fit as an office worker? As much as I enjoy my career, I might give serious consideration to moving into something more physical in future. While you can easily fit in a decent amount of exercise outside of work if you only work 40 hours, it strikes me as much more efficient to make your work exercise in and off itself. I spent one summer working as a software engineer intern with 6 weeks in between working at a summer camp where I was on my feet all day every day. When I got back to the office my mood and focus were sky high compared to before but I never had to try to do exercise at summer camp, the job itself just was exercise.

hacker_9 10y ago
You have options; You could bike to work, or go for a run in your lunch break, or instead go to the gym after work.
- ck425 10y ago
  I already do run to work, and it helps, as well as a reasonably active hobby. But there's a big different between running to work and a job that keeps you on your feet and moving for 40 hours a week.
- jcbeard 10y ago
  Many companies in the US are providing gyms for their employees, making staying in decent shape that much easier. I definitely take advantage. Even when I don't have time for a full workout, I can hop on treadmill for a 30 minute run and be back to work in 40 minutes (assuming showers aren't all occupied).
tallanvor 10y ago
If you can find a job that you love that requires moderate activity, and funds a lifestyle you can get enjoyment from, that's obviously great. But this study doesn't suggest that you need to do this to stay sharp. And, at least in the US, the statistics show that average lifespan has actually been decreasing for people in blue collar jobs. Part of this may be that physically demanding jobs simply cause the body to wear out faster or because you end up injuring yourself and having limited mobility making it harder for you to stay active. And, of course, a big part of it is most likely that blue collar jobs usually don't include great healthcare plans, and if you're earning less money, you may end up with a plan that really isn't affordable if something major happens. It seems that a white collar job with maybe 5 days a week where you workout for an hour - some sort of combination of strength training and aerobic activity - is probably the best middle ground we have right now.

agumonkey 10y ago

I wonder about travel too. My mind buzzes whenever I'm a new environment. I now wonder about walking far...

dvcrn 10y ago

My problem with exercise is simply time. There are a million things I want to do and with a 10-7 work shift, I just can't do much. Staying 30 minutes longer happens easily so it's 7:30. Commuting to the gym would take another 20-30. 1h in the gym and it's 9 (or later). Commuting an hour home and it's 10. Go to supermarket, maybe cook something up and it could easily be 11 already. This leaves 1-2h max to do anything else, given I am not dead from the gym. Now spinning up the brain to focus on something creative also needs a bit of time. Morning gym is hard as well. All gyms around my home open from 9:30/10:00 which is when I have to be on the way to the office already. So the time slots that are free are very competitive. Pick one: Do I go to the gym? Do I watch a movie with the gf? Do I program? Do I learn the next grammar chapter? Do I work on other hobbies that I've been putting off too long? Do I meet friends and catch up on social life? To be honest, this 'problem' makes me currently think of switching into a part time job, just so I have more time for the things I actually care about. (Part time remote for optimum happiness but that might be impossible to come by)

crusso 10y ago
Some years back, I re-evaluated how I spend my free time (not working, not with the family). I knew that I mostly surfed online or watched TV. I decided to only watch TV if I could be in the midst of a workout. I spent a few hundred bucks getting some basic exercise equipment for my home and I began using it almost every day after work in the evenings. I'm very pleased with that decision. It's produced great results for me, both physically and mentally.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  There is a really good npr story on this. Basically you deny yourself a specific pleasure unless you do a chore. I use for for podcasts and indoor cycling. I could only poscast when i cycled. Worked really Well. Indoor cycling is mentally hard, but I looked forward to it so I could hear my podcasts.
Gustomaximus 10y ago
Best us to work it into your day like run at lunch and eat at your desk after. Or get off a train stop early and walk. Also I keep a dumbell under my home desk (not confident enough to do this at open plan work office) so if on the phone or having a YouTube moment type thing I do a few exercises.

theprop 10y ago

Do not say you're too busy to exercise. Your productivity is much higher when you exercise. Do not say you're too old to exercise. The older you are, the more crucial it is. Get in the habit. Start with even just 2 intense minutes a day. Once you're in the habit, you'll work out longer.

r_singh 10y ago
Precisely, one should quit all excuses! My father was prescribed to storvas (for cholesterol) over a decade ago... luckily he is an avid reader and soon found out what road the permanent meds lead to. He quit the meds and started working out consistently (never mind spondylitis which he combatted with bed rest) for 10 years (and still continuing). Today, he's over 50 and is killing it in every aspect in life. His mind is sharp, business is good and best of all he can run over 6kms in 30 minutes (plus all the weights and stuff)! He's now reducing running for his knees and cycles out youngsters half his age 3 times a week (with 3 times weight training). This could've been a very different picture if he continued with prescribed meds. After experiencing this, he's purchased workout plans for everyone in the family for 9 years straight and wants us to treat workouts like we brush our teeth (nevermind if we don't get competitive). I work way better if I exercise, it's like the clock for my life even in my 20s. Never want to lose the habit.
- ams6110 10y ago
  I just hate it. Not that I haven't tried. I've tried running, weights, walking. It's boring, and makes me feel tired and irritable. I just want to go to bed after exercise. Not my thing.
  - GiorgioG 10y ago
    Same here. But...being dead isn't my thing either so I supposed I should keep trying to make it a habit anyway.
  - tcoff91 10y ago
    What about hiking, rock climbing, mountain biking, stand-up paddle boarding, etc... Is there nothing physical you enjoy doing?

ruleabidinguser 10y ago

Meh. I'll take the shitty brain.

spodek 10y ago

Saying that exercise keeps the mind sharp normalizes not exercising. I prefer to think of exercise as normal and sitting around as the mind-dulling deviation. I would say: Not exercising can dull the mind. or A sedentary lifestyle instead of getting your heart pumping can dull the mind.

Allower 10y ago

FUCK EXERCISE. I HAVE TIME, AND DONT FUCKING WANT TO DO IT

nepotism2016 10y ago

I hate direct exercising, ie running around my local area or going to the gym. However what I do love is participating in activities which require exercising; mountain biking, table tennis, football, hiking and badminton. I love all of these sports for its social benefits and most of the time I forget I'm exercising :)

zeteo 10y ago

Looking at the funnel plot in fig. 3 in the linked meta-analysis [1], the high precision studies (standard error < 0.268) are clustered around an effect size of 0. The overall positive effect derives exclusively from the medium and low-precision studies, with several visible outliers well to the right influencing the mean significantly. The medium and low-precision studies had problems with one or more of the following: "randomisation; allocation concealment; blinding of therapists (intervention supervisors); blinding of participants; blinding of outcome assessors; handling of incomplete data (use of intention-to-treat analysis); selective reporting and any other risk of bias." [1] Also, the result was only statistically significant for poor quality control groups that didn't engage in any shared activity: "When the control group involved either no contact (eg, waiting list, usual care; p<0.01) or education (eg, computer course, health lectures; p=0.01) the estimate was statistically significant. Where the control condition was exposed to an active control (eg, stretching; p=0.17) or social group (p=0.62), the effect size was still positive but no longer statistically significant." [1] In summary, a few poor quality studies with large bias account for most if not all of the effect reported in this meta-analysis. [1] http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/30/bjsports-2016-096587 http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/30/bjsports-2016-0...

daphneokeefe 10y ago
Thank you for spending the time to assess the validity of the claimed result, and for taking the time to explain it to us. This is a great example of the frequently poor quality of reported scientific studies.
criddell 10y ago
Thank you for posting this. I almost went to the gym!
QSIITurbo 10y ago
If people used their time to study and learn new things instead of fretting about their exercise, they'd be able to interpret the results of studies like these.
- 10y ago

mycoborea 10y ago

Purely anecdotal: I'm in my early 30s and find a brisk run to have a huge positive effect on my mental function and general energy levels for the rest of my day (I work in biotech and spend half my day in the lab, half behind a screen). In fact, I noticed this difference my very first (pitiful) day of running.

readhn 10y ago

Can a person overcome lack of exercise by eating healthy? Can a person overcome lack of good nutrition by exercising regularly ? Exercise goes hand in hand with nutrition IMO. People who exercise tend to eat better and healthier foods. If someone did not exercise routinely - they could easily improve their health by eating properly! What is more important? healthy nutrition or regular physical activity or both?! * And dont forget about about sleep!!!

itchyouch 10y ago
It's probably around 70-80% nutrition and 20-30% exercise/activity.

Mankhool 10y ago

As someone who is in his fifties, and just took my first real break from the gym in 40 years (2 months off) I can easily say I don't miss it. I still walk to/from work, which is about a 12km round trip, 5 times a week. And although I have considered never picking up a weight again, I know the benefits of weight bearing exercise and so, sometime this year, will go back to they gym, but less frequently and for a shorter duration. And never forget that 50% of your health is nutrition.

itchyouch 10y ago
People are so very emotionally tied to food they get blinded when it comes to "proper" nutrition. For technical folk, I think if we start phrasing nutrition alongside "limiting chemical reagents" all of a sudden the mind starts thinking about making sure all the proper reagents are available in abundant supply for the body.

js2 10y ago

Recent study ("Running as a Key Lifestyle Medicine for Longevity"): Abstract: Running is a popular and convenient leisure-time physical activity (PA) with a significant impact on longevity. In general, runners have a 25%–40% reduced risk of premature mortality and live approximately 3 years longer than non-runners. Recently, specific questions have emerged regarding the extent of the health benefits of running versus other types of PA, and perhaps more critically, whether there are diminishing returns on health and mortality outcomes with higher amounts of running. This review details the findings surrounding the impact of running on various health outcomes and premature mortality, highlights plausible underlying mechanisms linking running with chronic disease prevention and longevity, identifies the estimated additional life expectancy among runners and other active individuals, and discusses whether there is adequate evidence to suggest that longevity benefits are attenuated with higher doses of running. Conclusion: There is compelling evidence that running provides significant health benefits for the prevention of chronic diseases and premature mortality regardless of sex, age, body weight, and health conditions. There are strong plausible physiological mechanisms underlying how running can improve health and increase longevity. Running may be the most cost-effective lifestyle medicine from public health perspective, more important than other lifestyle and health risk factors such as smoking, obesity, HTN, and DM. It is not clear, however, how much running is safe and efficacious and whether it is possible to perform an excessive amount of exercise. Also, running may have the most public health benefits, but is not the best exercise for everyone since orthopedic or other medical conditions can restrict its use by many individuals. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0033062017300488 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0033062017... NYT reporting on the study ("An Hour of Running May Add 7 Hours to Your Life"): https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-runn...

H1Supreme 10y ago

Nothing helps me tackle a tough programming problem like a nice, long bike ride. Is it grueling at times? Of course. Are my legs burning by the end? Usually. But, hard physical activity is the perfect way to clear my mind. Plus, the fact that your body will go to shit if you don't exercise. Before I started lifting weights approx 10 years ago, I had back aches from sitting in an office chair all day. After regular, challenging, weight training, those problems vanished. Why? Because my muscles are strong now. If you don't use your muscles, they soon because worthless, and painful. It's amazing how much stronger you get in a short amount of time as a beginner in weight training. You don't like exercising? Boo hoo, no one does. I'd much rather eat pizza and drink beer than put 30 miles on my bike. But, I know it's important, so I suck it up and go. Even when I absolutely don't want to.