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CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police

308 points by remx 9y ago

pg_is_a_butt 9y ago
fuck the police. you're all idiots. protest does nothing. buy guns.
sambull 9y ago
In my county they opened fire on someone filming the police recently. Turns out having video evidence is the ONLY way a policeman can be wrong.
- thesmallestcat 9y ago
  Where?
  - sambull 9y ago
    Sacramento County [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/dad-im-shot-man-with-phone-camera-shot-by-police-on-his-own-property/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/dad-im-shot-man-...
    - pizzetta 9y ago
      Not excusing the incident but the fuller story is a little more complicated than the police shot someone just because: "The incident happened Thursday when Sanchez's next-door neighbor, Ben Ledford, was allegedly "firing up to 100 machine gun rounds at a home across the street, killing a dog inside the house," CBS Sacramento reported. Ledford surrendered to police, but officers fired at Sanchez after they saw him stand at the edge of his open garage and extend his hand out with an object—which turned out to be his cell phone, local NBC affiliate KCRA reported."
      - icebraining 9y ago
        Excusable in a war zone, not in a policing action. Then again a man firing 100 machine gun rounds would be almost unheard of in any other developed country, so maybe the US does qualify as a war zone.
        rayiner 9y ago
        There is a bit of truth to that. England and Wales had about 10 murders per million people last year, versus 50 per million for the U.S. The cities that show up in the news, like Baltimore, are at about 500 per million people. To put that into perspective: Baltimore, a city of just 620,000 people, had a roughly comparable number of homicides as the entirety of England and Wales, a country of 56 million people.
        StavrosK 9y ago
        Wikipedia[0] seems to indicate that Baltimore is about on par with Venezuela and Lesotho, as far as murders per capita go, matching the US Virgin Islands' rate quite well. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
        pjc50 9y ago
        I think last time I ran the numbers I concluded that Troubles Belfast in the 1970s (troops on the streets, authorised to use deadly force consistent with rules of engagement, versus actual armed terrorists, plus loyalist militias engaging in terrorism of their own) was still safer than 80s Detroit.
        ythn 9y ago
        > so maybe the US does qualify as a war zone. It sure does. We are constantly at war against tyranny and citizen owned guns are one of our best weapons. I don't think any other "developed country" has been democratic as long as we have without lapsing back into tyranny every other century.
        9y ago
- sametmax 9y ago
  Having videos on the police (and anybody with power) is the only good answer to "who is watching the watchers ?". Answer : now everybody. And that's a good thing.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  Source?
  - sambull 9y ago
    Guy videotaping from his garage. [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/dad-im-shot-man-with-phone-camera-shot-by-police-on-his-own-property/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/dad-im-shot-man-...
    - swsieber 9y ago
      To be fair, it probably looked like a gun from a distance. The police were in the neighborhood confronting somebody with a machine gun - not smart to take an action that looks like pointing a gun in a type of situation where one side has decided they need machine guns. It's not to excuse the behavior of the police..., but if you're pointing something at the police from across the street, it's hard to see the profile of said object...
      - ItendToDisagree 9y ago
        Shoot first! Ask questions later! mirite?!
        67726e 9y ago
        When someone was firing a "machine gun" in the vicinity, that might not be the worst idea. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
        praneshp 9y ago
        Absolutely yes, in this case. I'd prefer the officers went home to their families. If you want to go around pointing your phone at everything, you need to stop and think about the consequences.
        bonzini 9y ago
- oblio 9y ago
  You conveniently left out the part where the "victim" was shooting dozens of rounds at a nearby house (!!!).
  - MaxfordAndSons 9y ago
    You are mistaken: the man shot by police was the neighbor of the person firing the machine gun (who as it happens had already been apprehended).
- MaxfordAndSons 9y ago
  >Turns out having video evidence is the ONLY way a policeman can be wrong. Even then, video evidence of police wrongdoing is hardly a guarantee that they'll face any or proportionate consequences. See: the murders of Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, Oscar Grant, Jamar Clark, and countless others; oh and of course the assault of Rodney King.
beedogs 9y ago
Ah, the old "contempt of cop" charge. If taxpayers knew or cared how much money is wasted by police acting macho and lording it over citizens even to the extent of violating the law to do so, there might be some actual change in this area.
- JustSomeNobody 9y ago
  No they wouldn't. They see headlines occasionally about the cost overruns of the military (F35!) contracts and they don't do anything.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
traviswingo 9y ago
Snapshot since site is overloaded: http://archive.is/g0Kes http://archive.is/g0Kes
rdiddly 9y ago
So has anybody written an app for streaming video directly into cloud storage?
- jamra 9y ago
  I believe there was an app called Quic that shut down, but I heard that Facebook has some sort of live feature for streaming video.
  - nailer 9y ago
    FB live, Instagram live, YouTube live (though YouTube limit it to only certain users because they've timid). Everyone does this now.
    - scott_karana 9y ago
      All of those sites are easily bullied with subpoenas, DMCA takedowns, etc. A gag order preventing the public from seeing your evidence would really hurt your case. :(
      - jamra 9y ago
        If your facebook friends downloaded and reshared the video, it may be the only defense.
- beart 9y ago
  The ACLU has some app listings https://www.aclu.org/feature/aclu-apps-record-police-conduct https://www.aclu.org/feature/aclu-apps-record-police-conduct
- coldpie 9y ago
  The ACLU maintains a list of such applications: https://www.aclu.org/feature/aclu-apps-record-police-conduct https://www.aclu.org/feature/aclu-apps-record-police-conduct
  - 9y ago
snikeris 9y ago
I just bought a wireless card from ThinkPenguin a couple weeks ago. Very pleased with the transaction.
adamnemecek 9y ago
Why are the us cops such raging douche nozzles? After every interaction I've had with a cop in the us, I left hoping they get shot soon. I've never seen cops in other countries be like this.
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  I only met cool cops in the US (perhaps because they saw I was a foreigner). However, I do agree that in Europe you don't feel threatened at all by them, and that doesn't seem to be true in the States. There seems to be a trend in the US to treat everyone like criminals by default, while in Europe until they think you've done something wrong they're extremely nice (as they should). Although you were downvoted, it would be interesting to understand why that is. For sure the fact that anyone Police stop could have a gun has something to do with it.
  - theandrewbailey 9y ago
    There seems to be a trend in the US to treat everyone like criminals by default It's been that way for a long time. My dad worked at a prison for many years. To him, everyone was suspicious as hell: murderers, rapists, drug addicts/dealers, thieves, or (especially) sexual predators. None mutually exclusive, either.
  - dec0dedab0de 9y ago
    Although you were downvoted, it would be interesting to understand why that is. I'm guessing he was down-voted for the language, not the meaning.
    - nkkollaw 9y ago
      Yes, I thought so, but the point he raised was interesting.
- nailer 9y ago
  They may have a higher chance of getting shot themselves in the US, which pre-escalates things. Edit: as requested, my point of comparison is police in Australia and the UK.
draugadrotten 9y ago
This sounds very much like one side of the story. "I was essentially arrested for filming a police checkpoint in Manchester, New Hampshire" I don't want to defend the police, but that sounds like there is a lot of information missing here. Why was he filming the police? What did other people do at/to/near the checkpoint? Was he alone or part of a group or even a mob?
- kelukelugames 9y ago
  A commenter in the post suggests the CEO was verbally instigating in one of the linked videos. I didn't watch it so I don't have an opinion.
  - ItendToDisagree 9y ago
    Yet you'll happily repeat a bit of hearsay that is contradicted by in fact watching the video.
- beart 9y ago
  Some New England states do random police checkpoints to try to curb drunk driving. Many people think this is illegal (stopping without cause) and try to fight against it, film their interactions at the checkpoints, etc.
  - iamatworknow 9y ago
    Don't forget US Border Patrol has the authority to setup checkpoints or pull over anyone within 100 miles of the border, without cause. A lot of people might be aware of this with respect to the border with Mexico, but it applies to Canada as well. In the northeast that covers about half of the states of Vermont and New Hampshire, basically all of Maine, and a lot of New York north of the Thruway (Syracuse/Albany).
- larrydag 9y ago
  There should be a police report filed. I'm not sure the date of the incident. http://www.manchesternh.gov/Departments/Police/Police-Log http://www.manchesternh.gov/Departments/Police/Police-Log
throwaway999b 9y ago
There are very few details in this forum post, just some nonspecific mentions of an individual recording a police checkpoint of some kind. What type of checkpoint? Why did this person feel it necessary to record the police? Why did a confrontation start? What were the circumstances of the escalation? In general, if you interfere with the police (even if you disagree with whatever it is they're doing) you can expect some trouble. I will be the first to acknowledge that sometimes the police (especially small town cops) can get a little too full of their own authority and take it too far. On the other hand, their job is to keep the community safe, and save for the very worst cops (which are in the minority), they take the job seriously. There is (and should be) a pretty high bar to harassing or interfering with the police.
- nugget 9y ago
  Increasingly, if you're a police officer who interferes with a citizen who understands their Constitutionally-protected rights to film you (even if you disagree with those rights), you can expect some trouble. Video recording of encounters with authority is the single-best hope we have to resolve the political turmoil caused by the perception (not necessarily the reality) of widespread abuse. As Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis said: "sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants".[1] [1] http://3197d6d14b5f19f2f440-5e13d29c4c016cf96cbbfd197c579b45.r81.cf1.rackcdn.com/collection/papers/1910/1913_12_20_What_Publicity_Ca.pdf http://3197d6d14b5f19f2f440-5e13d29c4c016cf96cbbfd197c579b45...
- DanBC 9y ago
  It's interesting that you say that "filming the police" is either harassment or interfering with them. The post gives very little information about what actually happened, so I'm interested in why you made that leap. > On the other hand, their job is to keep the community safe, and save for the very worst cops (which are in the minority), they take the job seriously. There is (and should be) a pretty high bar to harassing or interfering with the police. US police shoot and kill very many more citizens that other police forces. Why is that? It's not just because citizens are armed: unarmed US citizens are also far more likely to be killed than EU citizens.
- adamnemecek 9y ago
dewitt 9y ago
Seems incredibly ill-advised to be publicly discussing what is sure to result in legal action. Even as one-sided as this is, the best he can do is incriminate himself. The other side will wait until due process requires them to disclose their case. At best he's trying to rally opinion (why?), at worst he's just seeking attention, and either way he's just making things worse on himself. As a CEO he just associated his company with poor decision making. If this guy has a lawyer, he should consider listening to them. But IANAL, so who knows.
- ajross 9y ago
  Or maybe he thinks the issue is important and the imperative to discuss it outweighs personal legal risk and association of his company with "poor" decision making. (Given the content at ThinkPenguin's site, I'm not sure that the target market agrees with you about "poor", btw). I don't know anything about this issue, to be clear. But the fact that you personally don't like to see stories about police misconduct doesn't seem like a very good reason for finger-wagging at those who experience it.
  - dewitt 9y ago
    Good point about ThinkPenguin's target demographic. I think you're right—I presumed too much about his business without looking first. (Sorry I upset you, btw.)
- westbywest 9y ago
  Agreeing with ajross above. Indeed, Chris disclosing his legal strategy may prove unwise to his own case, but his experience is becoming common enough to be relevant to anyone who may observe (what they think to be) police misconduct.
- vladimirralev 9y ago
  Publicity is probably far more valuable in this case. Even if he loses the suit he will be able to brand himself as someone who stands for common sense rights and get even more publicity eventually.
musgrove 9y ago
Filming police isn't against the law in the US, so that wasn't the charge as the clickbait title states. If the guy wanted to be forthright he could have listed the complaint(s) that are on his summons instead of making up a different scenario. This guy's obviously looking for trouble; filiming police for no good reason; getting himself arrested for no good reason; then going online and being deceptive about it to get support for himself by stirring up more trouble. It's no wonder he's such a frustrated person.
- pyromine 9y ago
  He says pretty early on that what he actually got was a disorderly conduct charge. Edit: Hey -> He
- joekrill 9y ago
  He did. He says it was disorderly conduct, and that it will likely be changed anyway. The whole point is that the disorderly conduct charge was "trumped up" because he was filming them. I don't really see the title as click bait at all. I'm not saying we're hearing the whole story here, either, but I think it's a little extreme to call this click bait. And if it bothers you so much, why didn't you explain the charges in your comment?
  - paulddraper 9y ago
    > it's a little extreme to call this click bait Headline: CEO of ThinkPenguin is arrested for filming police Reality: CEO of ThinkPenguin is arrested for disorderly conduct It's like saying Al Capone was arrested for having too much money. I mean, I guess. In a manner of speaking.
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  Disorderly is code for contempt of cop
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- kerkeslager 9y ago
hownottowrite 9y ago
He's part of "New England Cop Chasers." Their YouTube channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgnVXppkmzBKfTOwe-KqAJQ/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgnVXppkmzBKfTOwe-KqAJQ/vid...
dustingetz 9y ago
> I was essentially arrested for filming a police checkpoint ... (my video was seized, but experienced correspondents bring back up, as I did, we had several people apart from the nearly 20 activists protesting the checkpoint with video cameras) Emphasis mine. What happened exactly? There's more context gone unmentioned and he knows it. All one-sided stories sound open-and-shut.
JshWright 9y ago
Here are the most recent videos in the playlist linked in that post. Parts one and two of a 'confrontation' with Officer Hans Chapman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw Basically, a couple of guys looking to provoke a reaction, and a cop who interacts with them respectfully and is primarily concerned for everyone's safety. I wonder how similar the scenario described in the post was to the videos in that playlist...
- adam12 9y ago
  > Basically, a couple of guys looking to provoke a reaction, and a cop who interacts with them respectfully and is primarily concerned for everyone's safety. yep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y&t=45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y&t=45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y&t=90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y&t=90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw&t=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw&t=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw&t=73 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw&t=73 These guys are a couple of attention seeking jerks.
  - Pigo 9y ago
    I recall a detailed blog post of some guy who claim he was arrested for trying to "help" while a cop was managing a scene outside a bar. I wish I could find the link. Some people can't help but try to inject themselves into a commotion (especially when they've had a few), and can't grasp that they just become another variable for the police to worry about. This particular guy then got belligerent when asked to simply leave and go about his business.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
lohengramm 9y ago
Seems like the guy calls himself a "copchaser" and is used to actuallly chase police officers, annoyingly record their action and make sure to insult them while teaching them a lesson about how to do their job. And he calls all that "standing his ground". I am sure police officers can be jerks or even completely criminals, but this guy really seems to be crossing the line of common sense. Source: the YT channel himself posted https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgnVXppkmzBKfTOwe-KqAJQ/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgnVXppkmzBKfTOwe-KqAJQ/vid...
- nickpsecurity 9y ago
  "Seems like the guy calls himself a "copchaser" and is used to actuallly chase police officers, annoyingly record their action and make sure to insult them while teaching them a lesson about how to do their job. And he calls all that "standing his ground"." That's what I was seeing in the video I watched. Dude is a disgrace to activists. Last thing we need is more people acting like that toward police in a way that makes corporate media regularly. Voters would be pushing against police accountability more than dealing with police corruption. Best this stuff is done in a neutral, polite way from terms used (eg CopWatch vs CopChasers) to how one speaks to the cops (respectfully). Activists need the moral, high ground against the cops when viewers or juries start asking where the problems in a confrontation really started. "And if he acts this way on camera, what might he have said off camera to them?" they'll ask.
  - eruditely 9y ago
    ie a demand for us to be excessively passive and make their be an asymmetry in favor of the aggressor, ie why girls like criminals now, while they just to like knights before, the good guys, anyways, what you advocate men to do would be cede the asymmetry in favor of aggressors/criminals, police & criminals (same group of people, if you've ever had those sorts of friends they often just decide to try to be a cop later to maintain a few things, anyways, we cannot seed any situation to these people. anyways, my father's house was just broken into, a few other things happened, and we have enough cops, but stuff still isn't being taken care of, anyways, the most important part is the courage to contest
JustSomeNobody 9y ago
> You can legally get as close as a foot to an officer provided there is no interference. So for instance one can get a few feet from a scene as a member of the press where an officer is ticketing somebody for an offence. Does the person being ticketed have no rights in this situation? I think I'd be pretty upset at the reporter if they got all up in my business like this.
- throwaway76543 9y ago
  In a public space, no. You have no right to restrict others from observing or recording. It is not "your" business, according to the law. It's an event occurring in public and is everybody's business.
  - JustSomeNobody 9y ago
    I guess it begs the question, is this a decent thing to do to someone? I don't think so. Let people sort their business out themselves.
    - throwaway76543 9y ago
      Whether or not it's decent isn't at issue. The issue is the arrest. There's quite a bit of indecent, perfectly legal activity which will often result in illegal abuse of authority. For example: Standing on a street corner yelling "cops are pigs, fuck the police" is both somewhat indecent and entirely legal and well protected by the first amendment. Engage in such behavior and there are good odds you will become the subject of an illegal abuse of power.
- dec0dedab0de 9y ago
  Does the person being ticketed have no rights in this situation? I think I'd be pretty upset at the reporter if they got all up in my business like this. Reporting on people being charged with a crime is not just legal, it is extremely common. Also, I'm pretty sure you don't have any right to privacy when you're out in public.
Justin_K 9y ago
You can almost tell by the attempt to write "legalese" that this guy was looking for trouble. Every other sentence is "clearly this", "clearly that"... no, it's really not so clear.
pnathan 9y ago
Interesting how the prevailing mood on HN is very much pro-cop. Kind of surprising for a hacker forum. You don't really see what a system is made of until you stress it: filming police is one way to stress the LEO system. It's an unfortunate reality that it often does not produce good results.
- codezero 9y ago
  I think this is generally because of the audience here – I know there's a solid international contingency, but the US one is likely biased by privilege and hasn't experienced police corruption/harassment first hand like lots of less privileged people have, so they assume bad cops are an outlier and not part of an institution which props them up. I was definitely one of those people until recently, and it unfortunately took an incident I was directly involved in to change my mind, now when I hear someone else's story about police harassment/abuse, I put the burden on the police to explain why it was justified, not on the victim as to why it wasn't. It took a long time for me to have this POV, I expect it will take others who haven't had first-hand experience with bad law enforcement a long time too :/
  - JshWright 9y ago
    Have you watched the linked videos? I have gone on at length about the issues with our militarized police agencies in other threads. We have turned cops into soldiers, and soldiers need an enemy, which fosters an 'us vs them' attitude. It is a major issue (one of several) that certainly needs to be addressed. These 'CopChaser' folks are only looking to antagonize. Rather than improving the situation, they are feeding in to the "us vs them" mindset (despite that, in most of their interactions, they are the ones who come away looking like jerks (while patting themselves on the back the whole time)).
    - codezero 9y ago
      Yep, I agree, going out of one's way to antagonize the police is not helping with making police more transparent or accountable. I was really just responding to the parent realizing the generally pro-LE attitude, which I do think extends beyond this thread, for the reasons I stated, in part. I didn't mean it as a way of excusing the OP of the videos. At the same time, if the OP didn't do anything illegal, they shouldn't have been arrested, even if it's "annoying." If this kind of thing interferes with the police, there should be some legal precedent set before you get thrown in jail for it (maybe there is, if so, hooray!) edit: the shade of your text is getting lighter, to be clear – I upvoted your comment, it was completely reasonable.
crispyambulance 9y ago
I've seen this stuff before. Police doing their job on the street trying to keep order in potentially volatile situations and some fool with a camera insinuating himself into the mess who wants to start an ad-hoc high-school forensics debate about police power. Bad idea.
- scott_karana 9y ago
  If the "fool" is obviously in the wrong, it's in the officers' best interests not to escalate the situation, or let their egos get involved, and subsequently shoot themselves in the foot. Much better to deal with it as calmly and professionally as possible. The worst thing you can do around a heckler is react. ;)
  - JshWright 9y ago
    Go watch the first couple videos in the YouTube playlist in this blog post. The cop is calm and professional, despite the antagonizing behavior of the "CopChasers".
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
charliebk 9y ago
There are innocent people losing their lives in confrontations with cops (including the good cops who get killed just doing their job) and this guy is creating drama and looking for more attention from it. Just look at how long his posts are and at how he is begging for attention from everyone (the media, the tech community, etc). His altercation with the law (a misdemeanor at the most) doesn't warrant all of this extra drama he's creating. And what the hell does he want strangers to do about it (stop their busy lives, filled with real problems, to fight his battles and stroke his balls so he can feel validated about this self-inflicted wound?). The term "get a life" was creates specifically for these moments and types of people.

308 points by remx 9y ago

fuck the police. you're all idiots. protest does nothing. buy guns.

In my county they opened fire on someone filming the police recently. Turns out having video evidence is the ONLY way a policeman can be wrong.

thesmallestcat 9y ago
Where?
- sambull 9y ago
  Sacramento County [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/dad-im-shot-man-with-phone-camera-shot-by-police-on-his-own-property/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/dad-im-shot-man-...
  - pizzetta 9y ago
    Not excusing the incident but the fuller story is a little more complicated than the police shot someone just because: "The incident happened Thursday when Sanchez's next-door neighbor, Ben Ledford, was allegedly "firing up to 100 machine gun rounds at a home across the street, killing a dog inside the house," CBS Sacramento reported. Ledford surrendered to police, but officers fired at Sanchez after they saw him stand at the edge of his open garage and extend his hand out with an object—which turned out to be his cell phone, local NBC affiliate KCRA reported."
    - icebraining 9y ago
      Excusable in a war zone, not in a policing action. Then again a man firing 100 machine gun rounds would be almost unheard of in any other developed country, so maybe the US does qualify as a war zone.
      - rayiner 9y ago
        There is a bit of truth to that. England and Wales had about 10 murders per million people last year, versus 50 per million for the U.S. The cities that show up in the news, like Baltimore, are at about 500 per million people. To put that into perspective: Baltimore, a city of just 620,000 people, had a roughly comparable number of homicides as the entirety of England and Wales, a country of 56 million people.
        StavrosK 9y ago
        Wikipedia[0] seems to indicate that Baltimore is about on par with Venezuela and Lesotho, as far as murders per capita go, matching the US Virgin Islands' rate quite well. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
        pjc50 9y ago
        I think last time I ran the numbers I concluded that Troubles Belfast in the 1970s (troops on the streets, authorised to use deadly force consistent with rules of engagement, versus actual armed terrorists, plus loyalist militias engaging in terrorism of their own) was still safer than 80s Detroit.
      - ythn 9y ago
        > so maybe the US does qualify as a war zone. It sure does. We are constantly at war against tyranny and citizen owned guns are one of our best weapons. I don't think any other "developed country" has been democratic as long as we have without lapsing back into tyranny every other century.
        9y ago
sametmax 9y ago
Having videos on the police (and anybody with power) is the only good answer to "who is watching the watchers ?". Answer : now everybody. And that's a good thing.
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
Source?
- sambull 9y ago
  Guy videotaping from his garage. [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/dad-im-shot-man-with-phone-camera-shot-by-police-on-his-own-property/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/09/dad-im-shot-man-...
  - swsieber 9y ago
    To be fair, it probably looked like a gun from a distance. The police were in the neighborhood confronting somebody with a machine gun - not smart to take an action that looks like pointing a gun in a type of situation where one side has decided they need machine guns. It's not to excuse the behavior of the police..., but if you're pointing something at the police from across the street, it's hard to see the profile of said object...
    - ItendToDisagree 9y ago
      Shoot first! Ask questions later! mirite?!
      - 67726e 9y ago
        When someone was firing a "machine gun" in the vicinity, that might not be the worst idea. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
      - praneshp 9y ago
        Absolutely yes, in this case. I'd prefer the officers went home to their families. If you want to go around pointing your phone at everything, you need to stop and think about the consequences.
        bonzini 9y ago
oblio 9y ago
You conveniently left out the part where the "victim" was shooting dozens of rounds at a nearby house (!!!).
- MaxfordAndSons 9y ago
  You are mistaken: the man shot by police was the neighbor of the person firing the machine gun (who as it happens had already been apprehended).
MaxfordAndSons 9y ago
>Turns out having video evidence is the ONLY way a policeman can be wrong. Even then, video evidence of police wrongdoing is hardly a guarantee that they'll face any or proportionate consequences. See: the murders of Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, Oscar Grant, Jamar Clark, and countless others; oh and of course the assault of Rodney King.

beedogs 9y ago

Ah, the old "contempt of cop" charge. If taxpayers knew or cared how much money is wasted by police acting macho and lording it over citizens even to the extent of violating the law to do so, there might be some actual change in this area.

JustSomeNobody 9y ago
No they wouldn't. They see headlines occasionally about the cost overruns of the military (F35!) contracts and they don't do anything.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

traviswingo 9y ago

Snapshot since site is overloaded: http://archive.is/g0Kes http://archive.is/g0Kes

rdiddly 9y ago

So has anybody written an app for streaming video directly into cloud storage?

jamra 9y ago
I believe there was an app called Quic that shut down, but I heard that Facebook has some sort of live feature for streaming video.
- nailer 9y ago
  FB live, Instagram live, YouTube live (though YouTube limit it to only certain users because they've timid). Everyone does this now.
  - scott_karana 9y ago
    All of those sites are easily bullied with subpoenas, DMCA takedowns, etc. A gag order preventing the public from seeing your evidence would really hurt your case. :(
    - jamra 9y ago
      If your facebook friends downloaded and reshared the video, it may be the only defense.
beart 9y ago
The ACLU has some app listings https://www.aclu.org/feature/aclu-apps-record-police-conduct https://www.aclu.org/feature/aclu-apps-record-police-conduct
coldpie 9y ago
The ACLU maintains a list of such applications: https://www.aclu.org/feature/aclu-apps-record-police-conduct https://www.aclu.org/feature/aclu-apps-record-police-conduct
- 9y ago

snikeris 9y ago

I just bought a wireless card from ThinkPenguin a couple weeks ago. Very pleased with the transaction.

adamnemecek 9y ago

Why are the us cops such raging douche nozzles? After every interaction I've had with a cop in the us, I left hoping they get shot soon. I've never seen cops in other countries be like this.

nkkollaw 9y ago
I only met cool cops in the US (perhaps because they saw I was a foreigner). However, I do agree that in Europe you don't feel threatened at all by them, and that doesn't seem to be true in the States. There seems to be a trend in the US to treat everyone like criminals by default, while in Europe until they think you've done something wrong they're extremely nice (as they should). Although you were downvoted, it would be interesting to understand why that is. For sure the fact that anyone Police stop could have a gun has something to do with it.
- theandrewbailey 9y ago
  There seems to be a trend in the US to treat everyone like criminals by default It's been that way for a long time. My dad worked at a prison for many years. To him, everyone was suspicious as hell: murderers, rapists, drug addicts/dealers, thieves, or (especially) sexual predators. None mutually exclusive, either.
- dec0dedab0de 9y ago
  Although you were downvoted, it would be interesting to understand why that is. I'm guessing he was down-voted for the language, not the meaning.
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    Yes, I thought so, but the point he raised was interesting.
nailer 9y ago
They may have a higher chance of getting shot themselves in the US, which pre-escalates things. Edit: as requested, my point of comparison is police in Australia and the UK.

draugadrotten 9y ago

This sounds very much like one side of the story. "I was essentially arrested for filming a police checkpoint in Manchester, New Hampshire" I don't want to defend the police, but that sounds like there is a lot of information missing here. Why was he filming the police? What did other people do at/to/near the checkpoint? Was he alone or part of a group or even a mob?

kelukelugames 9y ago
A commenter in the post suggests the CEO was verbally instigating in one of the linked videos. I didn't watch it so I don't have an opinion.
- ItendToDisagree 9y ago
  Yet you'll happily repeat a bit of hearsay that is contradicted by in fact watching the video.
beart 9y ago
Some New England states do random police checkpoints to try to curb drunk driving. Many people think this is illegal (stopping without cause) and try to fight against it, film their interactions at the checkpoints, etc.
- iamatworknow 9y ago
  Don't forget US Border Patrol has the authority to setup checkpoints or pull over anyone within 100 miles of the border, without cause. A lot of people might be aware of this with respect to the border with Mexico, but it applies to Canada as well. In the northeast that covers about half of the states of Vermont and New Hampshire, basically all of Maine, and a lot of New York north of the Thruway (Syracuse/Albany).
larrydag 9y ago
There should be a police report filed. I'm not sure the date of the incident. http://www.manchesternh.gov/Departments/Police/Police-Log http://www.manchesternh.gov/Departments/Police/Police-Log

throwaway999b 9y ago

There are very few details in this forum post, just some nonspecific mentions of an individual recording a police checkpoint of some kind. What type of checkpoint? Why did this person feel it necessary to record the police? Why did a confrontation start? What were the circumstances of the escalation? In general, if you interfere with the police (even if you disagree with whatever it is they're doing) you can expect some trouble. I will be the first to acknowledge that sometimes the police (especially small town cops) can get a little too full of their own authority and take it too far. On the other hand, their job is to keep the community safe, and save for the very worst cops (which are in the minority), they take the job seriously. There is (and should be) a pretty high bar to harassing or interfering with the police.

nugget 9y ago
Increasingly, if you're a police officer who interferes with a citizen who understands their Constitutionally-protected rights to film you (even if you disagree with those rights), you can expect some trouble. Video recording of encounters with authority is the single-best hope we have to resolve the political turmoil caused by the perception (not necessarily the reality) of widespread abuse. As Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis said: "sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants".[1] [1] http://3197d6d14b5f19f2f440-5e13d29c4c016cf96cbbfd197c579b45.r81.cf1.rackcdn.com/collection/papers/1910/1913_12_20_What_Publicity_Ca.pdf http://3197d6d14b5f19f2f440-5e13d29c4c016cf96cbbfd197c579b45...
DanBC 9y ago
It's interesting that you say that "filming the police" is either harassment or interfering with them. The post gives very little information about what actually happened, so I'm interested in why you made that leap. > On the other hand, their job is to keep the community safe, and save for the very worst cops (which are in the minority), they take the job seriously. There is (and should be) a pretty high bar to harassing or interfering with the police. US police shoot and kill very many more citizens that other police forces. Why is that? It's not just because citizens are armed: unarmed US citizens are also far more likely to be killed than EU citizens.
adamnemecek 9y ago

dewitt 9y ago

Seems incredibly ill-advised to be publicly discussing what is sure to result in legal action. Even as one-sided as this is, the best he can do is incriminate himself. The other side will wait until due process requires them to disclose their case. At best he's trying to rally opinion (why?), at worst he's just seeking attention, and either way he's just making things worse on himself. As a CEO he just associated his company with poor decision making. If this guy has a lawyer, he should consider listening to them. But IANAL, so who knows.

ajross 9y ago
Or maybe he thinks the issue is important and the imperative to discuss it outweighs personal legal risk and association of his company with "poor" decision making. (Given the content at ThinkPenguin's site, I'm not sure that the target market agrees with you about "poor", btw). I don't know anything about this issue, to be clear. But the fact that you personally don't like to see stories about police misconduct doesn't seem like a very good reason for finger-wagging at those who experience it.
- dewitt 9y ago
  Good point about ThinkPenguin's target demographic. I think you're right—I presumed too much about his business without looking first. (Sorry I upset you, btw.)
westbywest 9y ago
Agreeing with ajross above. Indeed, Chris disclosing his legal strategy may prove unwise to his own case, but his experience is becoming common enough to be relevant to anyone who may observe (what they think to be) police misconduct.
vladimirralev 9y ago
Publicity is probably far more valuable in this case. Even if he loses the suit he will be able to brand himself as someone who stands for common sense rights and get even more publicity eventually.

musgrove 9y ago

Filming police isn't against the law in the US, so that wasn't the charge as the clickbait title states. If the guy wanted to be forthright he could have listed the complaint(s) that are on his summons instead of making up a different scenario. This guy's obviously looking for trouble; filiming police for no good reason; getting himself arrested for no good reason; then going online and being deceptive about it to get support for himself by stirring up more trouble. It's no wonder he's such a frustrated person.

pyromine 9y ago
He says pretty early on that what he actually got was a disorderly conduct charge. Edit: Hey -> He
joekrill 9y ago
He did. He says it was disorderly conduct, and that it will likely be changed anyway. The whole point is that the disorderly conduct charge was "trumped up" because he was filming them. I don't really see the title as click bait at all. I'm not saying we're hearing the whole story here, either, but I think it's a little extreme to call this click bait. And if it bothers you so much, why didn't you explain the charges in your comment?
- paulddraper 9y ago
  > it's a little extreme to call this click bait Headline: CEO of ThinkPenguin is arrested for filming police Reality: CEO of ThinkPenguin is arrested for disorderly conduct It's like saying Al Capone was arrested for having too much money. I mean, I guess. In a manner of speaking.
michaelmrose 9y ago
Disorderly is code for contempt of cop
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
kerkeslager 9y ago

hownottowrite 9y ago

He's part of "New England Cop Chasers." Their YouTube channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgnVXppkmzBKfTOwe-KqAJQ/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgnVXppkmzBKfTOwe-KqAJQ/vid...

dustingetz 9y ago

> I was essentially arrested for filming a police checkpoint ... (my video was seized, but experienced correspondents bring back up, as I did, we had several people apart from the nearly 20 activists protesting the checkpoint with video cameras) Emphasis mine. What happened exactly? There's more context gone unmentioned and he knows it. All one-sided stories sound open-and-shut.

JshWright 9y ago

Here are the most recent videos in the playlist linked in that post. Parts one and two of a 'confrontation' with Officer Hans Chapman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw Basically, a couple of guys looking to provoke a reaction, and a cop who interacts with them respectfully and is primarily concerned for everyone's safety. I wonder how similar the scenario described in the post was to the videos in that playlist...

adam12 9y ago
> Basically, a couple of guys looking to provoke a reaction, and a cop who interacts with them respectfully and is primarily concerned for everyone's safety. yep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y&t=45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y&t=45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y&t=90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtsXYG9b9Y&t=90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw&t=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw&t=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw&t=73 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWkefVqO9vw&t=73 These guys are a couple of attention seeking jerks.
- Pigo 9y ago
  I recall a detailed blog post of some guy who claim he was arrested for trying to "help" while a cop was managing a scene outside a bar. I wish I could find the link. Some people can't help but try to inject themselves into a commotion (especially when they've had a few), and can't grasp that they just become another variable for the police to worry about. This particular guy then got belligerent when asked to simply leave and go about his business.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

lohengramm 9y ago

Seems like the guy calls himself a "copchaser" and is used to actuallly chase police officers, annoyingly record their action and make sure to insult them while teaching them a lesson about how to do their job. And he calls all that "standing his ground". I am sure police officers can be jerks or even completely criminals, but this guy really seems to be crossing the line of common sense. Source: the YT channel himself posted https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgnVXppkmzBKfTOwe-KqAJQ/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgnVXppkmzBKfTOwe-KqAJQ/vid...

nickpsecurity 9y ago
"Seems like the guy calls himself a "copchaser" and is used to actuallly chase police officers, annoyingly record their action and make sure to insult them while teaching them a lesson about how to do their job. And he calls all that "standing his ground"." That's what I was seeing in the video I watched. Dude is a disgrace to activists. Last thing we need is more people acting like that toward police in a way that makes corporate media regularly. Voters would be pushing against police accountability more than dealing with police corruption. Best this stuff is done in a neutral, polite way from terms used (eg CopWatch vs CopChasers) to how one speaks to the cops (respectfully). Activists need the moral, high ground against the cops when viewers or juries start asking where the problems in a confrontation really started. "And if he acts this way on camera, what might he have said off camera to them?" they'll ask.
- eruditely 9y ago
  ie a demand for us to be excessively passive and make their be an asymmetry in favor of the aggressor, ie why girls like criminals now, while they just to like knights before, the good guys, anyways, what you advocate men to do would be cede the asymmetry in favor of aggressors/criminals, police & criminals (same group of people, if you've ever had those sorts of friends they often just decide to try to be a cop later to maintain a few things, anyways, we cannot seed any situation to these people. anyways, my father's house was just broken into, a few other things happened, and we have enough cops, but stuff still isn't being taken care of, anyways, the most important part is the courage to contest

JustSomeNobody 9y ago

> You can legally get as close as a foot to an officer provided there is no interference. So for instance one can get a few feet from a scene as a member of the press where an officer is ticketing somebody for an offence. Does the person being ticketed have no rights in this situation? I think I'd be pretty upset at the reporter if they got all up in my business like this.

throwaway76543 9y ago
In a public space, no. You have no right to restrict others from observing or recording. It is not "your" business, according to the law. It's an event occurring in public and is everybody's business.
- JustSomeNobody 9y ago
  I guess it begs the question, is this a decent thing to do to someone? I don't think so. Let people sort their business out themselves.
  - throwaway76543 9y ago
    Whether or not it's decent isn't at issue. The issue is the arrest. There's quite a bit of indecent, perfectly legal activity which will often result in illegal abuse of authority. For example: Standing on a street corner yelling "cops are pigs, fuck the police" is both somewhat indecent and entirely legal and well protected by the first amendment. Engage in such behavior and there are good odds you will become the subject of an illegal abuse of power.
dec0dedab0de 9y ago
Does the person being ticketed have no rights in this situation? I think I'd be pretty upset at the reporter if they got all up in my business like this. Reporting on people being charged with a crime is not just legal, it is extremely common. Also, I'm pretty sure you don't have any right to privacy when you're out in public.

Justin_K 9y ago

You can almost tell by the attempt to write "legalese" that this guy was looking for trouble. Every other sentence is "clearly this", "clearly that"... no, it's really not so clear.

pnathan 9y ago

Interesting how the prevailing mood on HN is very much pro-cop. Kind of surprising for a hacker forum. You don't really see what a system is made of until you stress it: filming police is one way to stress the LEO system. It's an unfortunate reality that it often does not produce good results.

codezero 9y ago
I think this is generally because of the audience here – I know there's a solid international contingency, but the US one is likely biased by privilege and hasn't experienced police corruption/harassment first hand like lots of less privileged people have, so they assume bad cops are an outlier and not part of an institution which props them up. I was definitely one of those people until recently, and it unfortunately took an incident I was directly involved in to change my mind, now when I hear someone else's story about police harassment/abuse, I put the burden on the police to explain why it was justified, not on the victim as to why it wasn't. It took a long time for me to have this POV, I expect it will take others who haven't had first-hand experience with bad law enforcement a long time too :/
- JshWright 9y ago
  Have you watched the linked videos? I have gone on at length about the issues with our militarized police agencies in other threads. We have turned cops into soldiers, and soldiers need an enemy, which fosters an 'us vs them' attitude. It is a major issue (one of several) that certainly needs to be addressed. These 'CopChaser' folks are only looking to antagonize. Rather than improving the situation, they are feeding in to the "us vs them" mindset (despite that, in most of their interactions, they are the ones who come away looking like jerks (while patting themselves on the back the whole time)).
  - codezero 9y ago
    Yep, I agree, going out of one's way to antagonize the police is not helping with making police more transparent or accountable. I was really just responding to the parent realizing the generally pro-LE attitude, which I do think extends beyond this thread, for the reasons I stated, in part. I didn't mean it as a way of excusing the OP of the videos. At the same time, if the OP didn't do anything illegal, they shouldn't have been arrested, even if it's "annoying." If this kind of thing interferes with the police, there should be some legal precedent set before you get thrown in jail for it (maybe there is, if so, hooray!) edit: the shade of your text is getting lighter, to be clear – I upvoted your comment, it was completely reasonable.

crispyambulance 9y ago

I've seen this stuff before. Police doing their job on the street trying to keep order in potentially volatile situations and some fool with a camera insinuating himself into the mess who wants to start an ad-hoc high-school forensics debate about police power. Bad idea.

scott_karana 9y ago
If the "fool" is obviously in the wrong, it's in the officers' best interests not to escalate the situation, or let their egos get involved, and subsequently shoot themselves in the foot. Much better to deal with it as calmly and professionally as possible. The worst thing you can do around a heckler is react. ;)
- JshWright 9y ago
  Go watch the first couple videos in the YouTube playlist in this blog post. The cop is calm and professional, despite the antagonizing behavior of the "CopChasers".
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

charliebk 9y ago

There are innocent people losing their lives in confrontations with cops (including the good cops who get killed just doing their job) and this guy is creating drama and looking for more attention from it. Just look at how long his posts are and at how he is begging for attention from everyone (the media, the tech community, etc). His altercation with the law (a misdemeanor at the most) doesn't warrant all of this extra drama he's creating. And what the hell does he want strangers to do about it (stop their busy lives, filled with real problems, to fight his battles and stroke his balls so he can feel validated about this self-inflicted wound?). The term "get a life" was creates specifically for these moments and types of people.