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How could that be? I stopped buying from Amazon after reading about how they treat their warehouse employees. To me, Amazon just represents monopolistic corpo

by kpil 10y ago

How could that be? I stopped buying from Amazon after reading about how they treat their warehouse employees. To me, Amazon just represents monopolistic corporate greed, with no aspiration of caring even just a little bit about anything else.

draw_down 10y ago
I don't get it either. Probably the last 4 or so things I've purchased on Amazon have not actually been shipped to me. I hate using it and try hard to avoid it these days.
- CamperBob2 10y ago
  That's extremely hard to believe, just because it's such an unusual complaint. You generally get something in the mail, even if it's a Chinese counterfeit. There must be a logical explanation -- what do you think is contributing to the problem?
  - galkk 10y ago
    Not an original author, but had it several times as well. Example one - tracking number was plain fake. Amazon refunded after I've contacted them through A-Z guarantee. Example two - tracking number was ok, but order was delivered to Florida, instead of California, with no comment from seller. Amazon refunded through A-Z guarantee.
ljk 10y ago
> So many ambulances responded to medical assistance calls at the warehouse during a heat wave in May, the paper said, that the retailer paid Cetronia Ambulance Corps to have paramedics and ambulances stationed outside the warehouse during several days of excess heat over the summer. https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/inside-amazons-very-hot-warehouse/ https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/inside-amazons-ver...
- pm 10y ago
  Because it's cheaper and more efficient to have them onsite.
  - krapp 10y ago
    Also because dehydration and injuries are a problem in fulfillment centers, especially during high volume or high heat.
    - petra 10y ago
      Why should dehydration be an acceptable problem ? i can understand heat and not using air-conditioning, but even soldiers in hot countries manage to stay hydrated.
      - jhall1468 10y ago
        Because people often don't realize how much water they need.
      - AdamN 10y ago
        Soldiers die all the time during training exercises, let alone actual deployment. Dehydration is definitely a cause: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362942/Soldiers-marched-death-Tragedy-territorial-Army-men-collapsed-searing-heat-tried-SAS.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362942/Soldiers-mar...
      - awj 10y ago
        Where in all of this did you get that someone saw it as an "acceptable problem"? Hell, where did you get that dehydration isn't a problem for soldiers? I grew up in Texas. Literally everyone I knew, and absolutely everyone who did manual labor, was familiar with the dangers of the dehydration+heat combo. It still happened all the time, despite being common knowledge. Show me a warehouse actively preventing workers from getting water and I will join the moral outrage. But "dehydration happens in a warehouse during a heatwave" is an obvious consequence, not a shocking fact.
mabbo 10y ago
I spent four years writing software for those warehouse associates. Spent a lot of time inside those behemoth buildings, met a lot of good people and worked pretty much every job for at least a few hours. The thing to remember is that warehouse jobs suck everywhere. Amazon just happens to be a large employer. And overall, if I had to work in a warehouse I'd prefer to work in an Amazon one. Now, if you want to hate on how Amazon treats human beings, go read up on the delivery drivers. A year on developing that software led me to quit.
- thesmallestcat 10y ago
  > The thing to remember is that warehouse jobs suck everywhere. Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep. I mean, sure, they're not the most glamorous. But what sets Amazon apart is how, as with their other operations, they've "streamlined" things, being "data-driven." By all accounts I've read, in an Amazon warehouse you're truly a number, with metrics gathered and ruthlessly analyzed. They've streamlined the recruiting/hiring process too, so there's a line of people around the block waiting to take your job the moment you slip up.
  - GCA10 10y ago
    I did some warehouse work as a teenager. I wasn't a number. I was fresh meat in a violent, snide culture where there weren't any coherent processes or data. I'm a tough bloke, so one-armed Wally and angry Floyd did not ruin my summer. But if I were to go back into a warehouse again, I'd much rather have metrics and a data-driven system of accountability that applies to everyone. It beats an unstructured tyranny where overhead lighting is deliberately broken so cruel stuff can happen in dark corners.
    - thesmallestcat 10y ago
      So you're saying the choices are postmodern dystopia, or being beaten by your coworkers. Methinks there's some ground between.
      - 10y ago
krapp 10y ago
Part of the reason Amazon is so successful and highly regarded is the degree to which they exploit their warehouse employees. This exploitation results in customer orders being stocked and shipped quickly and in costs being reduced. Amazon is obsessed with the customer, remember, not the employee.
- camtarn 10y ago
  This, in general, is important to remember - especially if you're planning on being employed by Amazon, or doing business by them. Amazon will do anything* to make the customer experience better - and that means getting maximum efficiency out of every link in the supply chain by pushing vendors, publishers and employees to their limits. Life can be quite nice as a developer, if you've got a manager who understands that developer efficiency can be cultivated by not putting on undue pressure. But if you're in any role with a single metric which can be ruthlessly optimized, expect that to happen. * Anything except sacrifice the Long-Term Projects. As a former Amazon site developer, I've been incredibly pissed off about the Amazon website and apps degrading the customer experience in order to aggressively push Prime, Amazon Music, Amazon Mom/Student, etc. There's some stuff on there bordering on dark patterns, and it goes against everything that was drilled into us devs over the years.
  - kpil 10y ago
    I think you mean; They will do anything to make money. Selling assorted junk from China and some books with a minimum of friction for the customer is just aligned with that goal.
- nojvek 10y ago
  I see Amazon as a company that wants to give a great service to humans but their humans in Warehouses aren't up to the task. I predict in a decade a large part of their warehouse will be automated for the labor heavy skills. There is an inherent desire to enslave to leverage work off automation. Robots would be perfect slaves for corporations. Whoever makes electric muscles and sells it at scale is going to be the next billionaire.
tartuffe78 10y ago
Most people don't blacklist corporations for bad behavior.

by kpil 10y ago

draw_down 10y ago

I don't get it either. Probably the last 4 or so things I've purchased on Amazon have not actually been shipped to me. I hate using it and try hard to avoid it these days.

CamperBob2 10y ago
That's extremely hard to believe, just because it's such an unusual complaint. You generally get something in the mail, even if it's a Chinese counterfeit. There must be a logical explanation -- what do you think is contributing to the problem?
- galkk 10y ago
  Not an original author, but had it several times as well. Example one - tracking number was plain fake. Amazon refunded after I've contacted them through A-Z guarantee. Example two - tracking number was ok, but order was delivered to Florida, instead of California, with no comment from seller. Amazon refunded through A-Z guarantee.

ljk 10y ago

> So many ambulances responded to medical assistance calls at the warehouse during a heat wave in May, the paper said, that the retailer paid Cetronia Ambulance Corps to have paramedics and ambulances stationed outside the warehouse during several days of excess heat over the summer. https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/inside-amazons-very-hot-warehouse/ https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/inside-amazons-ver...

pm 10y ago
Because it's cheaper and more efficient to have them onsite.
- krapp 10y ago
  Also because dehydration and injuries are a problem in fulfillment centers, especially during high volume or high heat.
  - petra 10y ago
    Why should dehydration be an acceptable problem ? i can understand heat and not using air-conditioning, but even soldiers in hot countries manage to stay hydrated.
    - jhall1468 10y ago
      Because people often don't realize how much water they need.
    - AdamN 10y ago
      Soldiers die all the time during training exercises, let alone actual deployment. Dehydration is definitely a cause: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362942/Soldiers-marched-death-Tragedy-territorial-Army-men-collapsed-searing-heat-tried-SAS.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362942/Soldiers-mar...
    - awj 10y ago
      Where in all of this did you get that someone saw it as an "acceptable problem"? Hell, where did you get that dehydration isn't a problem for soldiers? I grew up in Texas. Literally everyone I knew, and absolutely everyone who did manual labor, was familiar with the dangers of the dehydration+heat combo. It still happened all the time, despite being common knowledge. Show me a warehouse actively preventing workers from getting water and I will join the moral outrage. But "dehydration happens in a warehouse during a heatwave" is an obvious consequence, not a shocking fact.

mabbo 10y ago

I spent four years writing software for those warehouse associates. Spent a lot of time inside those behemoth buildings, met a lot of good people and worked pretty much every job for at least a few hours. The thing to remember is that warehouse jobs suck everywhere. Amazon just happens to be a large employer. And overall, if I had to work in a warehouse I'd prefer to work in an Amazon one. Now, if you want to hate on how Amazon treats human beings, go read up on the delivery drivers. A year on developing that software led me to quit.

thesmallestcat 10y ago
> The thing to remember is that warehouse jobs suck everywhere. Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep. I mean, sure, they're not the most glamorous. But what sets Amazon apart is how, as with their other operations, they've "streamlined" things, being "data-driven." By all accounts I've read, in an Amazon warehouse you're truly a number, with metrics gathered and ruthlessly analyzed. They've streamlined the recruiting/hiring process too, so there's a line of people around the block waiting to take your job the moment you slip up.
- GCA10 10y ago
  I did some warehouse work as a teenager. I wasn't a number. I was fresh meat in a violent, snide culture where there weren't any coherent processes or data. I'm a tough bloke, so one-armed Wally and angry Floyd did not ruin my summer. But if I were to go back into a warehouse again, I'd much rather have metrics and a data-driven system of accountability that applies to everyone. It beats an unstructured tyranny where overhead lighting is deliberately broken so cruel stuff can happen in dark corners.
  - thesmallestcat 10y ago
    So you're saying the choices are postmodern dystopia, or being beaten by your coworkers. Methinks there's some ground between.
    - 10y ago

krapp 10y ago

Part of the reason Amazon is so successful and highly regarded is the degree to which they exploit their warehouse employees. This exploitation results in customer orders being stocked and shipped quickly and in costs being reduced. Amazon is obsessed with the customer, remember, not the employee.

camtarn 10y ago
This, in general, is important to remember - especially if you're planning on being employed by Amazon, or doing business by them. Amazon will do anything* to make the customer experience better - and that means getting maximum efficiency out of every link in the supply chain by pushing vendors, publishers and employees to their limits. Life can be quite nice as a developer, if you've got a manager who understands that developer efficiency can be cultivated by not putting on undue pressure. But if you're in any role with a single metric which can be ruthlessly optimized, expect that to happen. * Anything except sacrifice the Long-Term Projects. As a former Amazon site developer, I've been incredibly pissed off about the Amazon website and apps degrading the customer experience in order to aggressively push Prime, Amazon Music, Amazon Mom/Student, etc. There's some stuff on there bordering on dark patterns, and it goes against everything that was drilled into us devs over the years.
- kpil 10y ago
  I think you mean; They will do anything to make money. Selling assorted junk from China and some books with a minimum of friction for the customer is just aligned with that goal.
nojvek 10y ago
I see Amazon as a company that wants to give a great service to humans but their humans in Warehouses aren't up to the task. I predict in a decade a large part of their warehouse will be automated for the labor heavy skills. There is an inherent desire to enslave to leverage work off automation. Robots would be perfect slaves for corporations. Whoever makes electric muscles and sells it at scale is going to be the next billionaire.

tartuffe78 10y ago

Most people don't blacklist corporations for bad behavior.