16 ms·

Amazon's Leadership Principles

259 points by spking 10y ago

mataug 10y ago
I'm not really sure why Amazon's leadership principles are on the first page, but since we're talking about Amazon, Here's a video with RBC Capital's managing director Mark Mahaney talking about why amazon could be the first trillion dollar business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8id_1gxOXc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8id_1gxOXc
- Lammy 10y ago
  They were mentioned in the popular article today about Travis Kalanick: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14178397 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14178397
rl3 10y ago
"Overwork, underpay, and generally treat people like commoditized dirt."
candiodari 10y ago
1. Screw 2. Every last employee 3. Out of their last dime 4. Deny 5. Lie 6. Deny the lying 7. Work them to death 8. As soon as it takes the slightest toll on them, fire them 9. Their suppliers too 10. And may God help delivery services 11. Deny 12. Lie about that too 13. Deny lying about it, of course 14. Don't even profit from it (except personally if you're Jeff Bezos, of course, who somehow became a billionaire creating an "extremely frugal" company that pays badly, and in his own words "does not intend to make a profit for the forseeable future") 15. Screw the shareholders too by hyping up an utterly ridiculous valuation 16. Especially deny that ! 17. There's really only 14 principles as far as anyone's concerned. Really what we need for our economy ... https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2015/08/18/how-people-who-work-for-amazon-really-feel/#70df3b613305 https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2015/08/18/how-peopl... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/11/amazon-accused-of-intolerable-conditions-at-scottish-warehouse https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/11/amazon-ac... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/amazon-working-conditions-inquiry_uk_584e7530e4b0b7ff851d3fff http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/amazon-working-conditi... https://www.businessinsider.com.au/brutal-conditions-in-amazons-warehouses-2013-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com.au/brutal-conditions-in-amaz... http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/its-like-every-single-bad-job-youve-ever-had-amazon-workers-warning-for-australia/news-story/238103f9c15052a1957c8d600b2af54a http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/its-like-every-s... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/amazon-devastating-expose-accuses-internet-retailer-of-oppressive-and-callous-attitude-to-staff-10458159.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/amazon-devas... At some point there's a pattern.
- mataug 10y ago
  Everytime some story about amazon comes up I see someone on HN complain. Not very productive if all we do is complain. I'm not quite sure how to solve the problem but complaining sure isn't helping.
- wired8 10y ago
  Billionaires are people too...
- felixgallo 10y ago
  I work for Amazon, and my management line all the way up to Jeff is sensible, comprehensible, and human; I have good work-life balance and am able to offer that to my reports; my compensation is fair; and I would escalate immediately if I ever saw anyone abused, mistreated, or cheated. Amazon's a big company and I'm sure there's terrible managers out there and true harrowing stories. And there are problems, here and there, and things I'd love to change. But if there was a pervasive, total cultural failure at Amazon, I'd have seen it by now.
  - candiodari 10y ago
    Do you think those articles about conditions in the warehouses are lying ? If so, why ? What I mean to say is, the odds of those conditions being either unintentional or just local aberrations seems rather small given the widespread articles about it from around the world. Germany, UK, US, ... everywhere workers are complaining about things like sick people getting fired, mandatory unpaid overtime, constant tracking of everything, ...
    - felixgallo 10y ago
      I can't speak for any other experience than my own. I suspect some or most of the stories have truth to them; one day I hope to work a shift and find out for myself.
      - candiodari 10y ago
nandemo 10y ago
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -- Grouch Marx
wired8 10y ago
Isn't Silicon Valley on tonight?
6stringmerc 10y ago
Leaders are willing to take a 100x salary compared to their line employees because they know they can hustle hard enough to live up to the expectations. I'm very excited to see the helmet cam video of Jeff Bezos serving a customary 8-10-12-14 hour shift at the Dallas Amazon Fulfillment Center and walk out with a smile. Can you do what you ask of others? That's leadership. No, really. Principles not tested in the fire mean nothing (i.e. "The Man Who Corrupted Hadleyburg"). I know how much grinding I put in and I'd be happy to strap a Fitbit to Bezos and run a day shift side by side. Dogfooding is a principle I'll never abandon.
- newsat13 10y ago
  What video are you referring to?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- pryelluw 10y ago
  Ill smile a whole 14 hour shift at some warehouse if im a billionaire who only does this once or twice for pr.
  - thesmallestcat 10y ago
    Yea, the video you want to see is a month in when he really should be taking a sick day, but San Bernardino's hot as shit and he can barely afford to keep the AC on, and his wife's eight months pregnant so maintaining health insurance is sorta important. That's Bias for Action!
- knucklesandwich 10y ago
  > Leaders are willing to take a 100x salary compared to their line employees because they know they can hustle hard enough to live up to the expectations. > I'm very excited to see the helmet cam video of Jeff Bezos serving a customary 8-10-12-14 hour shift at the Dallas Amazon Fulfillment Center and walk out with a smile. Can you do what you ask of others? That's leadership. Sometimes I just have to sit and marvel at how many layers of ideology some of you folks are on.
TheGRS 10y ago
Do these leadership or company principles ever truly have any effect on employees or products? I've seen them thrown around at my company on a few occasions, but they never feel like they drive much beyond trying to be one of those gaudy motivational posters.
- somethingsimple 10y ago
  At Amazon they are like a religion. I don't know if every group is like that, but someone very close to me works there and they tell me those leadership principles are a part of daily work and are explicitly mentioned in day-to-day activities. Amazon's leadership principles are also used during performance reviews, and to evaluate candidates in interviews.
  - StreamBright 10y ago
    That applies to Google more. Amazon folks tend to understand that it is just a job and do not spend most of their life on campus. There is definitely pride attached to working for Amazon but there are very few people sticking to working there over 5 years (not unheard of though).
- ktRolster 10y ago
  It depends on how they're implemented. At my previous company, there was a small list of principles posted on the wall, such as, "make each other better," "show integrity." I was astonished one day when I realized that I had seen several people at different levels of the company actually try to make each other better. It inspired me, personally, and made me glad to work at that company. Famously, IBM used to have their priorities: 1) Customers first 2) Employees second 3) Stock holders third That's something that the CEO needs to take the lead on. When IBM has followed that, they have done really well (and you can see evidence of it in the dedication of Mythical Man Month) All that said, this particular list of principles looks like so much pablum. It's too long and unfocused to be really useful, and I can't see it having much affect. My guess is that Amazon is having trouble finding people to hire lately, and that's why they keep coming up with experiments like this (another example is their foray into 4-day work weeks)
suryakrishna 10y ago
they forgot one principle. * Work like a slave.
brut 10y ago
So how much do they pay for this kind of job? And how much latitude are you given as a "leader"? Is it all talk or are they serious about this? I don't really care if I can buy a private jet but I will put in a lot of hours if that means I get to live a life never caring about money (> 200k a year). I've seen this said before in other companies ("we want leaders") but when it's time to put some resources into X or Y project, things slow down really fast...
- greyskull 10y ago
  Amazon tries to push Leadership Principles into every part of at least their corporate world. It's supposed to drive decision making for basically everyone, brand new engineers on up (I don't know if they push them lower down the stack). What I'm getting at is it's not solely for "leaders" as in high level folks. > live a life never caring about money (> 200k a year) I'm in my 3rd year as an engineer here (and of my career). Their target for me is 175k as a new SDE II, but I'm already well above that considering AMZN growth. If we're talking calendar year, as long as AMZN doesn't take a dive, next year I'm easily hitting 200k (yes, I realize how crappy the reliance on RSUs is). I'll probably hit 200k as an actual target next year. So, your number isn't difficult to reach, which is both great and ridiculous.
  - brut 10y ago
    Thanks for the data point. I'm looking at openings in Canada and the only numbers I've found during a cursory search were 'Salary Range: $80,000 to $140,000/yr, commensurate with experience' for a 'Research Scientist II' position.
    - greyskull 10y ago
      Ah, my mistake for assuming that you're a software developer (or at least one that would fall into a typical SDE role). Bad habit. I have confidence that we're nowhere near the ceiling for AMZN, if that says anything.
    - camtarn 10y ago
      Pay varies a lot depending on the location, as well. It's meant to be competitive with local industry rates.
kkelleey 10y ago
The emphasis on "customer obsession" is clearly working, since it has topped the polls for best corporate reputation two years in a row. http://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon-tops-harris-poll-corporate-reputation-jeff-bezos-emails-kudos-congrats/ http://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon-tops-harris-poll-corpora... I work for Amazon, and I personally am a huge fan of the "LPs" . I consistently find myself mentally consulting them when I'm not sure what to do in a particular situation. I also think it really helps to work in an environment where everyone shares the same core values.
- kpil 10y ago
  How could that be? I stopped buying from Amazon after reading about how they treat their warehouse employees. To me, Amazon just represents monopolistic corporate greed, with no aspiration of caring even just a little bit about anything else.
  - draw_down 10y ago
    I don't get it either. Probably the last 4 or so things I've purchased on Amazon have not actually been shipped to me. I hate using it and try hard to avoid it these days.
    - CamperBob2 10y ago
      That's extremely hard to believe, just because it's such an unusual complaint. You generally get something in the mail, even if it's a Chinese counterfeit. There must be a logical explanation -- what do you think is contributing to the problem?
      - galkk 10y ago
        Not an original author, but had it several times as well. Example one - tracking number was plain fake. Amazon refunded after I've contacted them through A-Z guarantee. Example two - tracking number was ok, but order was delivered to Florida, instead of California, with no comment from seller. Amazon refunded through A-Z guarantee.
Bahamut 10y ago
Some of these are contradictory - in addition, some of these aren't really even leadership principles of much merit outside the company they're created for. Here is an example of a proven set of leadership principles that is a worthwhile read: http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/usmc/leadership.htm http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/usmc/leadership.htm . Someone who can embody all of these principles that the Marine Corps espouses is someone I can respect immensely regardless of profession.
- perfmode 10y ago
  Thanks for the link. I agree with you. Respect due.
- didibus 10y ago
  They contradict each other on purpose. They tend to act as a balancing function. That said, ya, I don't think they were meant for anything else but Amazon.
  - hammock 10y ago
    I'm reminded of the fox/hedgehog delineation. Very clearly, tech values would be a fox and USMC values would be a hedgehog. However at the same time, I am reading your argument and thinking, having a bunch of random contradicting guidelines and hoping that the law of averages smooths out the error inherent, can't be better than a more thoughtful list of consistent, higher-level principles.
- pipeep 10y ago
  I used to work at Amazon, and I liked their leadership principles. They're intentionally contradictory, but that's just an acknowledgement that perfection is impossible. When you choose to focus on one aspect of your career, that's often going to be at the detriment of something else. This also means that there's always room for career development and self-improvement.
  - blazespin 10y ago
    They forgot take advantage of the low self esteem of your potential employees.
neocodesoftware 10y ago
am amzn shopper. for a data driven company these 10 commandments are a priori? are the results of decades clinical research? is there an extensive bibliogrpahy? peer review? or is this newspeak? can't amzn do better? a ted talk has more data. thats my backbone. i disagree and i am committed to emoticons. :)
- aanm1988 10y ago
  They slap "unless you know better ones" on everything, so if you have go ahead and bring it up.
blazespin 10y ago
I take Reed Hasting and Netflix a lot more seriously and their principles. They pay for performance. Amazon just grinds through as many people with low self esteem as possible and pays a poor salary.
- jhall1468 10y ago
  "Poor"? Seriously? They offer more than any startup as an engineer, and less than Google and Facebook. Any engineer is in the top 20% of wage earners. Plenty of valid complaints about Amazon. Pay isn't one of them.
- andrewguenther 10y ago
  Sorry, but this is bullshit, the pay is great (and based on performance) and self esteem isn't a problem.
  - blazespin 10y ago
    Not from my experience and not from what I've seen on glassdoor. Can you cite? I found amazon engineers universally having low self esteem. Which makes sense, why w ould you want to work for a company that treats you so poorly?
rodionos 10y ago
This isn't a jibe at Amazon, but I wouldn't call it Principles. Principles is something you adhere to when there's no financial gain involved. When defense contractors use the terms Values, Excellence, Honesty etc - it just undermines the effort. There should be a better word to describe this, perhaps Weights and Constraints when making decisions at Amazon. It's difficult to come up with something as good as Azimov's laws but for humans.
- golergka 10y ago
  I don't quite understand - what is it about financial gain that makes it incompatible with principles?
  - yAnonymous 10y ago
    Nothing. He doesn't know the meaning of the word, that's all.
    - golergka 10y ago
      I have to admit, I have the same opinion. But I'm always delighted to be proven wrong, and would appreciate good arguments against it.
      - rfrey 10y ago
        A principle is just a foundational truth that you start a chain of reasoning or behavior from. You can have principles for maximizing profits, principles for good software architecture, principles for increasing reliability of your vehicle. These are principles for leadership, OP is conflating that with principles for moral living, or principles for ethical behavior, or something like that.
  - rodionos 10y ago
    Principles is something that you keep regardless if there is money on the table. If money plays any role in the decision process - it's called a contract.
adtac 10y ago
I interned there last year. They really want to get this point across. Like, I had to sit through an entire day of orientation repeatedly telling me this in different ways. We even had "fun" games to re-inforce the principles lol. I was going to be there for a maximum of 2 months, but nope. But hey, the tech was really cool. My team was amazing, we went on multiple team outings during my short stay. Office hours were very relaxed - I came in whenever I wanted and left the office when I liked. My manager gave me full ownership of my task. I had all the resources in the company if I quickly wanted to test something. Just tone down on the principle force-feeding.
- dinglebert1234 10y ago
  The principle "force-feeding” is to benefit the company, not you.
- Nikhil_teja 10y ago
  Ditto! Same experience :D Realized you used "Ownership" in that comment? ;p
  - Leires 10y ago
    Not sure if you know, but "ownership" isn't a word or concept that Amazon invented. I'd like to add that Amazon isn't the first company to have leadership principles. From my experience, the only people that actually believe this crap are people that haven't been exposed to this sort of corporate propaganda in the past. Taking responsibility for a project, seeing it to completion, and following a standard is the right thing to do; not just an Amazonian thing to do.
    - ethbro 10y ago
      From an ex-gf who worked in corporate culture, I did learn to see the other side of this. The benefits (when it's being done for honestly good purposes) are in standardization. Both of language and in approach. There's innumerable ways to get from A to B. If everyone knows that if someone says "Widgetification" then they mean X & that the standard way of accomplishing the task is Corporate Approach Y, then everyone can get back to work having saved time in communication. So I think there's definitely an efficiency case to be made. PS: I'm aware it's used for evil (anti-organized labor, preventing valid workplace lawsuits, covering management's ass, etc) at a lot of shops too.
NumberCruncher 10y ago
http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-05-23 http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-05-23
antowa 10y ago
I would say it is such a misleading principles. Don't believe it. The actual 'core' meaning of the principles is: work for Amazon without any complaint. It turns developers in Amazon out to be ruled by the higher leaders. Very capitalism.
Kurtz79 10y ago
"[Leaders] Are Right, A Lot" How is this even a principle ? Just "be right", a lot ?
- Denki86 10y ago
  "They seek diverse perspectives and work to disconfirm their beliefs."
  - Kurtz79 10y ago
    Which is very sensible, but then the principle would be "[Our leaders] Do not assume they are always right".
    - andrewguenther 10y ago
      The wording of this principle is probably the one that gets talked about the most internally. People always bring up changing it, but when they rolled out a new revision of the principles two years ago or so, this one stayed the same. It's a shame, because once properly explained it's probably one of my favorite principles.
      - dap 10y ago
        It's not the only one, though. The last four are either commands ("Dive Deep") or a completion of a sentence starting with "Leaders" (e.g., "Leaders dive deep"). But "Frugality" and "Bias for Action" are just properties of good leaders. The tenses (or parts-of-sentence) are all different.
    - beastcoast 10y ago
      We used to have "vocally self critical"
- alphadevx 10y ago
  It's a characteristic ("good judgement") rather than a principal, agree it makes no sense whatsoever being on this list.
bertlequant 10y ago
I know a lot of companies have ancronyms, bullet points, or a list of company culture principals. What's everyone's reaction to all of this? Do you take it seriously? Pretend to? Roll your eyes? Find value in them?
- Twirrim 10y ago
  It's taken very seriously and used a lot internally. I've worked elsewhere with those silly acronyms and the like. I've never worked anywhere before that practiced what it preached. It was good to see.
- losteverything 10y ago
  <Find value in them? This. Probably the most important single thing in my biz life. They are anchors that are easily measureable. I used and constantly use them to prioritize work, provide constructive criticism, and most importantly know that I am right. It has cut through next level bosses hard-to-understand decisions; Even in my now easy life in retail it becomes the foundation for supervision; makes terminations easy (a task I now don't get upset at); Plus i get great feedback when I personally live up to our values But it's most useful at interpersonal conflicts about work.
yogrish 10y ago
I feel this article from Ali Rowghani sums up Core Leadership principles. https://blog.ycombinator.com/how-do-you-measure-leadership/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/how-do-you-measure-leadership/
Nikhil_teja 10y ago
While working at Amazon, these 14 principles had become a part of my vocabulary :p Had to use them in Documents, self reviews etc.
artana 10y ago
http://www.webmhs.com/2017/04/prediksi-skor-juventus-vs-genoa.html http://www.webmhs.com/2017/04/prediksi-skor-juventus-vs-geno...
yoandy 10y ago
I find a lot of arrogance in this Principles, at some point of view it is even evil. Have anybody knows of another company that throws their leadership principles to your face?
- andrewguenther 10y ago
  What about them do you find evil?
  - yoandy 10y ago
    Because in general the principles are centered in make a more profitable enterprise while not taking care of many important human values. I don't think raising the bar is more important than having a team in harmony where everybody cares about everybody while at the same time is highly motivated for the project success.
- GenWintergreen 10y ago
  Bridgewater. It's um... interesting.

259 points by spking 10y ago

I'm not really sure why Amazon's leadership principles are on the first page, but since we're talking about Amazon, Here's a video with RBC Capital's managing director Mark Mahaney talking about why amazon could be the first trillion dollar business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8id_1gxOXc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8id_1gxOXc

Lammy 10y ago
They were mentioned in the popular article today about Travis Kalanick: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14178397 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14178397

rl3 10y ago

"Overwork, underpay, and generally treat people like commoditized dirt."

candiodari 10y ago

1. Screw 2. Every last employee 3. Out of their last dime 4. Deny 5. Lie 6. Deny the lying 7. Work them to death 8. As soon as it takes the slightest toll on them, fire them 9. Their suppliers too 10. And may God help delivery services 11. Deny 12. Lie about that too 13. Deny lying about it, of course 14. Don't even profit from it (except personally if you're Jeff Bezos, of course, who somehow became a billionaire creating an "extremely frugal" company that pays badly, and in his own words "does not intend to make a profit for the forseeable future") 15. Screw the shareholders too by hyping up an utterly ridiculous valuation 16. Especially deny that ! 17. There's really only 14 principles as far as anyone's concerned. Really what we need for our economy ... https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2015/08/18/how-people-who-work-for-amazon-really-feel/#70df3b613305 https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2015/08/18/how-peopl... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/11/amazon-accused-of-intolerable-conditions-at-scottish-warehouse https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/11/amazon-ac... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/amazon-working-conditions-inquiry_uk_584e7530e4b0b7ff851d3fff http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/amazon-working-conditi... https://www.businessinsider.com.au/brutal-conditions-in-amazons-warehouses-2013-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com.au/brutal-conditions-in-amaz... http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/its-like-every-single-bad-job-youve-ever-had-amazon-workers-warning-for-australia/news-story/238103f9c15052a1957c8d600b2af54a http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/its-like-every-s... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/amazon-devastating-expose-accuses-internet-retailer-of-oppressive-and-callous-attitude-to-staff-10458159.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/amazon-devas... At some point there's a pattern.

mataug 10y ago
Everytime some story about amazon comes up I see someone on HN complain. Not very productive if all we do is complain. I'm not quite sure how to solve the problem but complaining sure isn't helping.
wired8 10y ago
Billionaires are people too...
felixgallo 10y ago
I work for Amazon, and my management line all the way up to Jeff is sensible, comprehensible, and human; I have good work-life balance and am able to offer that to my reports; my compensation is fair; and I would escalate immediately if I ever saw anyone abused, mistreated, or cheated. Amazon's a big company and I'm sure there's terrible managers out there and true harrowing stories. And there are problems, here and there, and things I'd love to change. But if there was a pervasive, total cultural failure at Amazon, I'd have seen it by now.
- candiodari 10y ago
  Do you think those articles about conditions in the warehouses are lying ? If so, why ? What I mean to say is, the odds of those conditions being either unintentional or just local aberrations seems rather small given the widespread articles about it from around the world. Germany, UK, US, ... everywhere workers are complaining about things like sick people getting fired, mandatory unpaid overtime, constant tracking of everything, ...
  - felixgallo 10y ago
    I can't speak for any other experience than my own. I suspect some or most of the stories have truth to them; one day I hope to work a shift and find out for myself.
    - candiodari 10y ago

nandemo 10y ago

Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -- Grouch Marx

wired8 10y ago

Isn't Silicon Valley on tonight?

6stringmerc 10y ago

Leaders are willing to take a 100x salary compared to their line employees because they know they can hustle hard enough to live up to the expectations. I'm very excited to see the helmet cam video of Jeff Bezos serving a customary 8-10-12-14 hour shift at the Dallas Amazon Fulfillment Center and walk out with a smile. Can you do what you ask of others? That's leadership. No, really. Principles not tested in the fire mean nothing (i.e. "The Man Who Corrupted Hadleyburg"). I know how much grinding I put in and I'd be happy to strap a Fitbit to Bezos and run a day shift side by side. Dogfooding is a principle I'll never abandon.

newsat13 10y ago
What video are you referring to?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
pryelluw 10y ago
Ill smile a whole 14 hour shift at some warehouse if im a billionaire who only does this once or twice for pr.
- thesmallestcat 10y ago
  Yea, the video you want to see is a month in when he really should be taking a sick day, but San Bernardino's hot as shit and he can barely afford to keep the AC on, and his wife's eight months pregnant so maintaining health insurance is sorta important. That's Bias for Action!
knucklesandwich 10y ago
> Leaders are willing to take a 100x salary compared to their line employees because they know they can hustle hard enough to live up to the expectations. > I'm very excited to see the helmet cam video of Jeff Bezos serving a customary 8-10-12-14 hour shift at the Dallas Amazon Fulfillment Center and walk out with a smile. Can you do what you ask of others? That's leadership. Sometimes I just have to sit and marvel at how many layers of ideology some of you folks are on.

TheGRS 10y ago

Do these leadership or company principles ever truly have any effect on employees or products? I've seen them thrown around at my company on a few occasions, but they never feel like they drive much beyond trying to be one of those gaudy motivational posters.

somethingsimple 10y ago
At Amazon they are like a religion. I don't know if every group is like that, but someone very close to me works there and they tell me those leadership principles are a part of daily work and are explicitly mentioned in day-to-day activities. Amazon's leadership principles are also used during performance reviews, and to evaluate candidates in interviews.
- StreamBright 10y ago
  That applies to Google more. Amazon folks tend to understand that it is just a job and do not spend most of their life on campus. There is definitely pride attached to working for Amazon but there are very few people sticking to working there over 5 years (not unheard of though).
ktRolster 10y ago
It depends on how they're implemented. At my previous company, there was a small list of principles posted on the wall, such as, "make each other better," "show integrity." I was astonished one day when I realized that I had seen several people at different levels of the company actually try to make each other better. It inspired me, personally, and made me glad to work at that company. Famously, IBM used to have their priorities: 1) Customers first 2) Employees second 3) Stock holders third That's something that the CEO needs to take the lead on. When IBM has followed that, they have done really well (and you can see evidence of it in the dedication of Mythical Man Month) All that said, this particular list of principles looks like so much pablum. It's too long and unfocused to be really useful, and I can't see it having much affect. My guess is that Amazon is having trouble finding people to hire lately, and that's why they keep coming up with experiments like this (another example is their foray into 4-day work weeks)

suryakrishna 10y ago

they forgot one principle. * Work like a slave.

brut 10y ago

So how much do they pay for this kind of job? And how much latitude are you given as a "leader"? Is it all talk or are they serious about this? I don't really care if I can buy a private jet but I will put in a lot of hours if that means I get to live a life never caring about money (> 200k a year). I've seen this said before in other companies ("we want leaders") but when it's time to put some resources into X or Y project, things slow down really fast...

greyskull 10y ago
Amazon tries to push Leadership Principles into every part of at least their corporate world. It's supposed to drive decision making for basically everyone, brand new engineers on up (I don't know if they push them lower down the stack). What I'm getting at is it's not solely for "leaders" as in high level folks. > live a life never caring about money (> 200k a year) I'm in my 3rd year as an engineer here (and of my career). Their target for me is 175k as a new SDE II, but I'm already well above that considering AMZN growth. If we're talking calendar year, as long as AMZN doesn't take a dive, next year I'm easily hitting 200k (yes, I realize how crappy the reliance on RSUs is). I'll probably hit 200k as an actual target next year. So, your number isn't difficult to reach, which is both great and ridiculous.
- brut 10y ago
  Thanks for the data point. I'm looking at openings in Canada and the only numbers I've found during a cursory search were 'Salary Range: $80,000 to $140,000/yr, commensurate with experience' for a 'Research Scientist II' position.
  - greyskull 10y ago
    Ah, my mistake for assuming that you're a software developer (or at least one that would fall into a typical SDE role). Bad habit. I have confidence that we're nowhere near the ceiling for AMZN, if that says anything.
  - camtarn 10y ago
    Pay varies a lot depending on the location, as well. It's meant to be competitive with local industry rates.

kkelleey 10y ago

The emphasis on "customer obsession" is clearly working, since it has topped the polls for best corporate reputation two years in a row. http://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon-tops-harris-poll-corporate-reputation-jeff-bezos-emails-kudos-congrats/ http://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon-tops-harris-poll-corpora... I work for Amazon, and I personally am a huge fan of the "LPs" . I consistently find myself mentally consulting them when I'm not sure what to do in a particular situation. I also think it really helps to work in an environment where everyone shares the same core values.

kpil 10y ago
How could that be? I stopped buying from Amazon after reading about how they treat their warehouse employees. To me, Amazon just represents monopolistic corporate greed, with no aspiration of caring even just a little bit about anything else.
- draw_down 10y ago
  I don't get it either. Probably the last 4 or so things I've purchased on Amazon have not actually been shipped to me. I hate using it and try hard to avoid it these days.
  - CamperBob2 10y ago
    That's extremely hard to believe, just because it's such an unusual complaint. You generally get something in the mail, even if it's a Chinese counterfeit. There must be a logical explanation -- what do you think is contributing to the problem?
    - galkk 10y ago
      Not an original author, but had it several times as well. Example one - tracking number was plain fake. Amazon refunded after I've contacted them through A-Z guarantee. Example two - tracking number was ok, but order was delivered to Florida, instead of California, with no comment from seller. Amazon refunded through A-Z guarantee.

Bahamut 10y ago

Some of these are contradictory - in addition, some of these aren't really even leadership principles of much merit outside the company they're created for. Here is an example of a proven set of leadership principles that is a worthwhile read: http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/usmc/leadership.htm http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/usmc/leadership.htm . Someone who can embody all of these principles that the Marine Corps espouses is someone I can respect immensely regardless of profession.

perfmode 10y ago
Thanks for the link. I agree with you. Respect due.
didibus 10y ago
They contradict each other on purpose. They tend to act as a balancing function. That said, ya, I don't think they were meant for anything else but Amazon.
- hammock 10y ago
  I'm reminded of the fox/hedgehog delineation. Very clearly, tech values would be a fox and USMC values would be a hedgehog. However at the same time, I am reading your argument and thinking, having a bunch of random contradicting guidelines and hoping that the law of averages smooths out the error inherent, can't be better than a more thoughtful list of consistent, higher-level principles.
pipeep 10y ago
I used to work at Amazon, and I liked their leadership principles. They're intentionally contradictory, but that's just an acknowledgement that perfection is impossible. When you choose to focus on one aspect of your career, that's often going to be at the detriment of something else. This also means that there's always room for career development and self-improvement.
- blazespin 10y ago
  They forgot take advantage of the low self esteem of your potential employees.

neocodesoftware 10y ago

am amzn shopper. for a data driven company these 10 commandments are a priori? are the results of decades clinical research? is there an extensive bibliogrpahy? peer review? or is this newspeak? can't amzn do better? a ted talk has more data. thats my backbone. i disagree and i am committed to emoticons. :)

aanm1988 10y ago
They slap "unless you know better ones" on everything, so if you have go ahead and bring it up.

blazespin 10y ago

I take Reed Hasting and Netflix a lot more seriously and their principles. They pay for performance. Amazon just grinds through as many people with low self esteem as possible and pays a poor salary.

jhall1468 10y ago
"Poor"? Seriously? They offer more than any startup as an engineer, and less than Google and Facebook. Any engineer is in the top 20% of wage earners. Plenty of valid complaints about Amazon. Pay isn't one of them.
andrewguenther 10y ago
Sorry, but this is bullshit, the pay is great (and based on performance) and self esteem isn't a problem.
- blazespin 10y ago
  Not from my experience and not from what I've seen on glassdoor. Can you cite? I found amazon engineers universally having low self esteem. Which makes sense, why w ould you want to work for a company that treats you so poorly?

rodionos 10y ago

This isn't a jibe at Amazon, but I wouldn't call it Principles. Principles is something you adhere to when there's no financial gain involved. When defense contractors use the terms Values, Excellence, Honesty etc - it just undermines the effort. There should be a better word to describe this, perhaps Weights and Constraints when making decisions at Amazon. It's difficult to come up with something as good as Azimov's laws but for humans.

golergka 10y ago
I don't quite understand - what is it about financial gain that makes it incompatible with principles?
- yAnonymous 10y ago
  Nothing. He doesn't know the meaning of the word, that's all.
  - golergka 10y ago
    I have to admit, I have the same opinion. But I'm always delighted to be proven wrong, and would appreciate good arguments against it.
    - rfrey 10y ago
      A principle is just a foundational truth that you start a chain of reasoning or behavior from. You can have principles for maximizing profits, principles for good software architecture, principles for increasing reliability of your vehicle. These are principles for leadership, OP is conflating that with principles for moral living, or principles for ethical behavior, or something like that.
- rodionos 10y ago
  Principles is something that you keep regardless if there is money on the table. If money plays any role in the decision process - it's called a contract.

adtac 10y ago

I interned there last year. They really want to get this point across. Like, I had to sit through an entire day of orientation repeatedly telling me this in different ways. We even had "fun" games to re-inforce the principles lol. I was going to be there for a maximum of 2 months, but nope. But hey, the tech was really cool. My team was amazing, we went on multiple team outings during my short stay. Office hours were very relaxed - I came in whenever I wanted and left the office when I liked. My manager gave me full ownership of my task. I had all the resources in the company if I quickly wanted to test something. Just tone down on the principle force-feeding.

dinglebert1234 10y ago
The principle "force-feeding” is to benefit the company, not you.
Nikhil_teja 10y ago
Ditto! Same experience :D Realized you used "Ownership" in that comment? ;p
- Leires 10y ago
  Not sure if you know, but "ownership" isn't a word or concept that Amazon invented. I'd like to add that Amazon isn't the first company to have leadership principles. From my experience, the only people that actually believe this crap are people that haven't been exposed to this sort of corporate propaganda in the past. Taking responsibility for a project, seeing it to completion, and following a standard is the right thing to do; not just an Amazonian thing to do.
  - ethbro 10y ago
    From an ex-gf who worked in corporate culture, I did learn to see the other side of this. The benefits (when it's being done for honestly good purposes) are in standardization. Both of language and in approach. There's innumerable ways to get from A to B. If everyone knows that if someone says "Widgetification" then they mean X & that the standard way of accomplishing the task is Corporate Approach Y, then everyone can get back to work having saved time in communication. So I think there's definitely an efficiency case to be made. PS: I'm aware it's used for evil (anti-organized labor, preventing valid workplace lawsuits, covering management's ass, etc) at a lot of shops too.

NumberCruncher 10y ago

http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-05-23 http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-05-23

antowa 10y ago

I would say it is such a misleading principles. Don't believe it. The actual 'core' meaning of the principles is: work for Amazon without any complaint. It turns developers in Amazon out to be ruled by the higher leaders. Very capitalism.

Kurtz79 10y ago

"[Leaders] Are Right, A Lot" How is this even a principle ? Just "be right", a lot ?

Denki86 10y ago
"They seek diverse perspectives and work to disconfirm their beliefs."
- Kurtz79 10y ago
  Which is very sensible, but then the principle would be "[Our leaders] Do not assume they are always right".
  - andrewguenther 10y ago
    The wording of this principle is probably the one that gets talked about the most internally. People always bring up changing it, but when they rolled out a new revision of the principles two years ago or so, this one stayed the same. It's a shame, because once properly explained it's probably one of my favorite principles.
    - dap 10y ago
      It's not the only one, though. The last four are either commands ("Dive Deep") or a completion of a sentence starting with "Leaders" (e.g., "Leaders dive deep"). But "Frugality" and "Bias for Action" are just properties of good leaders. The tenses (or parts-of-sentence) are all different.
  - beastcoast 10y ago
    We used to have "vocally self critical"
alphadevx 10y ago
It's a characteristic ("good judgement") rather than a principal, agree it makes no sense whatsoever being on this list.

bertlequant 10y ago

I know a lot of companies have ancronyms, bullet points, or a list of company culture principals. What's everyone's reaction to all of this? Do you take it seriously? Pretend to? Roll your eyes? Find value in them?

Twirrim 10y ago
It's taken very seriously and used a lot internally. I've worked elsewhere with those silly acronyms and the like. I've never worked anywhere before that practiced what it preached. It was good to see.
losteverything 10y ago
<Find value in them? This. Probably the most important single thing in my biz life. They are anchors that are easily measureable. I used and constantly use them to prioritize work, provide constructive criticism, and most importantly know that I am right. It has cut through next level bosses hard-to-understand decisions; Even in my now easy life in retail it becomes the foundation for supervision; makes terminations easy (a task I now don't get upset at); Plus i get great feedback when I personally live up to our values But it's most useful at interpersonal conflicts about work.

yogrish 10y ago

I feel this article from Ali Rowghani sums up Core Leadership principles. https://blog.ycombinator.com/how-do-you-measure-leadership/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/how-do-you-measure-leadership/

Nikhil_teja 10y ago

While working at Amazon, these 14 principles had become a part of my vocabulary :p Had to use them in Documents, self reviews etc.

artana 10y ago

http://www.webmhs.com/2017/04/prediksi-skor-juventus-vs-genoa.html http://www.webmhs.com/2017/04/prediksi-skor-juventus-vs-geno...

yoandy 10y ago

I find a lot of arrogance in this Principles, at some point of view it is even evil. Have anybody knows of another company that throws their leadership principles to your face?

andrewguenther 10y ago
What about them do you find evil?
- yoandy 10y ago
  Because in general the principles are centered in make a more profitable enterprise while not taking care of many important human values. I don't think raising the bar is more important than having a team in harmony where everybody cares about everybody while at the same time is highly motivated for the project success.
GenWintergreen 10y ago
Bridgewater. It's um... interesting.