18 ms·

Uber is pushing anti-union propaganda to its drivers

154 points by Fraterkes 10y ago

revelation 10y ago
Hilarious, it's the same formulation as those infamous Walmart educational videos. The ordinary employee wishing to learn what this "union" thing is all about.. https://youtu.be/zTwY2bF1JI0 https://youtu.be/zTwY2bF1JI0
- maaarghk 10y ago
  This is amazing. something something Poe something. Is it real?
- cuchoi 10y ago
  The best part is when they demonize unions by saying "The truth is unions are businesses, multimillion dollar businesses...". So multimillion dollar businesses are the bad guys? Have you looked at the mirror Walmart?
- pkkim 10y ago
  There are dedicated anti-union consulting firms that teach their clients the same bag of tricks. The union is a third party, they'll threaten the company's success (this one is hard to do legally, a consultant can help), etc.
empressplay 10y ago
Every time I think of Uber these days I hear Cartman's voice in my head going "I do what I want!"
- Neliquat 10y ago
  I just see hipsters funding the kind of unethical behavior they claim to be against while pretending to be better by not owning a car.
NoGravitas 10y ago
Ugh. Anti-union propaganda from employers is always so disgusting. It's always so full of outright lies, confidently stated, that become the default baseline for the discourse. It's like the earliest glimmerings of the post-truth era.
- chrisseaton 10y ago
  But you could say the same thing about the pro-union propaganda from the unions. Both the companies and the unions are out for themselves and will tell you how they see things their ways as if it were fact. Neither is worse than the other, and an employee (or Uber contractor) would be a fool to take anything either side said at face value.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    "Companies" and "unions" are abstract fictions; the actual people involved are, respectively, owners (shareholders for a corporation, members for an LLC, partners for a partnership, etc.) and workers.
    - zardo 10y ago
      The workers and shareholders are not producing the pro|anti union communications without structure; the abstract fictions they pay for are an important aspect of the discussion.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        No, the agents they choose and supervise, not the abstract fictions, are doing that.
    - chrisseaton 10y ago
      Both sides, owners and other workers, care about their own existing interests, not yours. Getting you involved, or keeping you from getting involved, is in both cases just a way to strengthen their own position. They don't care about your position. Why would they? Or do you think the unions are just doing it for your sake out of the goodness of their hearts? Well if you're willing to be so trusting that they are doing the right thing, why not trust the owners as well?
Anderkent 10y ago
I'm confused on why Uber has to give drivers information to Teamsters? If the drivers want someone to collectively represent them, can't they just sign up to Teamsters themselves? Then the org could go to uber and say 'hey, we represent 20% of your drivers, we want X or we all switch to Lyft'.
- elicash 10y ago
  If there's going to be a union election (which only happens once enough people say they want to join), employers supply the contact information that they have on file so that both sides have an opportunity to speak to employees. Obviously, employers are in an advantageous position, since they get to force people to attend their meetings, force people to do 1:1's to hear their side, in many cases (not this one) also get to see them and talk to them about it every day. They're also in a position of power over the employee. Info isn't shared until enough people say they want a union. While the legal threshold is much lower, normally that doesn't happen until about 70% say they want a union by signing cards.
ams6110 10y ago
But uber drivers are not employees. So Uber really can't tell them what to do.
- emodendroket 10y ago
  They're employees when it suits Uber's purposes and independent contracts when it doesn't.
YCode 10y ago
Here's a question for the community -- has anyone here ever been in a union? What was it like? So much of this thread is theoretical concerns, but I'm wondering what the actual on the ground experience is like.
- bitJericho 10y ago
  I have. Mine had little power, but even still, someone on your side was there for you for any problem you had. It's almost like having a lawyer. He may or may not do much, depending on the case, the location and the situation, but he's there for you so you're not alone. My pay was also very good because of the union negotiation power.
- EnFinlay 10y ago
  A relative of mine is in a union. From what I've seen, it's mostly used to combat times where the management uses their leverage over individual people to get free / unfair work. I'm sure there's room for abuse, but it seems to act as positive force for both sides.
- brightsize 10y ago
  I haven't been in a union, but back in the day my retired father was (and still is) a member of the National Association of Letter Carriers (NALC) which represents "over 93 percent of all working letter carriers"[1]. At one point he served as "shop steward", a role where he was empowered to present member "grievances" to the local management while having immunity from retribution, certainly for himself but I believe for the member in question as well. As a result of NALC representation he was entitled to a modest pension upon retirement - slightly more than break-even in small-town Vermont, but cannot receive Social Security benefits. He also received a form of medical coverage for life, something he pays some amount of money for but nowhere near what its market price would be if it could even be obtained at all (doubtful). This coverage has likely saved his life several times (cancer) and has been a firewall between himself and the financial disasters that can result from age-related diseases. Being in a union gave him a voice in how his workplace was run locally and to some extent how the USPS functioned nationally. Union members had a modicum of power in an environment where, but for the union, they'd have had none. Contrary to what anti-union propaganda would have people believe, the union most definitely did not negotiate sky-high pay rates far in excess of other blue-collar workers at the time. I think he earned a good wage for the era for a semi-skilled non-professional job but not a remarkable amount. That said he did have job security as a result of union representation, something that mattered more to him I think, with a stay-at-home wife and three kids, than the numbers on his paystub at the end of the month. Union membership resulted in my father having financial security while employed and during retirement and also having a certain amount of respect/power/dignity in the workplace when dealing with management. I sometimes wonder how blue-collar workers of his sort today (and many skilled white-collar workers for that matter) manage to keep their heads above water or have hope for the future. Do they have any idea how much they've lost as a result of the union-busting of the past 30-40 years? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_of_Letter_Carriers#Membership_and_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_of_Letter...
EnFinlay 10y ago
Anyone else find the article hard to read because the excerpts from the podcast were too manipulative and earnest? It just makes my skin crawl.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

154 points by Fraterkes 10y ago

Hilarious, it's the same formulation as those infamous Walmart educational videos. The ordinary employee wishing to learn what this "union" thing is all about.. https://youtu.be/zTwY2bF1JI0 https://youtu.be/zTwY2bF1JI0

maaarghk 10y ago
This is amazing. something something Poe something. Is it real?
cuchoi 10y ago
The best part is when they demonize unions by saying "The truth is unions are businesses, multimillion dollar businesses...". So multimillion dollar businesses are the bad guys? Have you looked at the mirror Walmart?
pkkim 10y ago
There are dedicated anti-union consulting firms that teach their clients the same bag of tricks. The union is a third party, they'll threaten the company's success (this one is hard to do legally, a consultant can help), etc.

empressplay 10y ago

Every time I think of Uber these days I hear Cartman's voice in my head going "I do what I want!"

Neliquat 10y ago
I just see hipsters funding the kind of unethical behavior they claim to be against while pretending to be better by not owning a car.

NoGravitas 10y ago

Ugh. Anti-union propaganda from employers is always so disgusting. It's always so full of outright lies, confidently stated, that become the default baseline for the discourse. It's like the earliest glimmerings of the post-truth era.

chrisseaton 10y ago
But you could say the same thing about the pro-union propaganda from the unions. Both the companies and the unions are out for themselves and will tell you how they see things their ways as if it were fact. Neither is worse than the other, and an employee (or Uber contractor) would be a fool to take anything either side said at face value.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  "Companies" and "unions" are abstract fictions; the actual people involved are, respectively, owners (shareholders for a corporation, members for an LLC, partners for a partnership, etc.) and workers.
  - zardo 10y ago
    The workers and shareholders are not producing the pro|anti union communications without structure; the abstract fictions they pay for are an important aspect of the discussion.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      No, the agents they choose and supervise, not the abstract fictions, are doing that.
  - chrisseaton 10y ago
    Both sides, owners and other workers, care about their own existing interests, not yours. Getting you involved, or keeping you from getting involved, is in both cases just a way to strengthen their own position. They don't care about your position. Why would they? Or do you think the unions are just doing it for your sake out of the goodness of their hearts? Well if you're willing to be so trusting that they are doing the right thing, why not trust the owners as well?

Anderkent 10y ago

I'm confused on why Uber has to give drivers information to Teamsters? If the drivers want someone to collectively represent them, can't they just sign up to Teamsters themselves? Then the org could go to uber and say 'hey, we represent 20% of your drivers, we want X or we all switch to Lyft'.

elicash 10y ago
If there's going to be a union election (which only happens once enough people say they want to join), employers supply the contact information that they have on file so that both sides have an opportunity to speak to employees. Obviously, employers are in an advantageous position, since they get to force people to attend their meetings, force people to do 1:1's to hear their side, in many cases (not this one) also get to see them and talk to them about it every day. They're also in a position of power over the employee. Info isn't shared until enough people say they want a union. While the legal threshold is much lower, normally that doesn't happen until about 70% say they want a union by signing cards.

ams6110 10y ago

But uber drivers are not employees. So Uber really can't tell them what to do.

emodendroket 10y ago
They're employees when it suits Uber's purposes and independent contracts when it doesn't.

YCode 10y ago

Here's a question for the community -- has anyone here ever been in a union? What was it like? So much of this thread is theoretical concerns, but I'm wondering what the actual on the ground experience is like.

bitJericho 10y ago
I have. Mine had little power, but even still, someone on your side was there for you for any problem you had. It's almost like having a lawyer. He may or may not do much, depending on the case, the location and the situation, but he's there for you so you're not alone. My pay was also very good because of the union negotiation power.
EnFinlay 10y ago
A relative of mine is in a union. From what I've seen, it's mostly used to combat times where the management uses their leverage over individual people to get free / unfair work. I'm sure there's room for abuse, but it seems to act as positive force for both sides.
brightsize 10y ago
I haven't been in a union, but back in the day my retired father was (and still is) a member of the National Association of Letter Carriers (NALC) which represents "over 93 percent of all working letter carriers"[1]. At one point he served as "shop steward", a role where he was empowered to present member "grievances" to the local management while having immunity from retribution, certainly for himself but I believe for the member in question as well. As a result of NALC representation he was entitled to a modest pension upon retirement - slightly more than break-even in small-town Vermont, but cannot receive Social Security benefits. He also received a form of medical coverage for life, something he pays some amount of money for but nowhere near what its market price would be if it could even be obtained at all (doubtful). This coverage has likely saved his life several times (cancer) and has been a firewall between himself and the financial disasters that can result from age-related diseases. Being in a union gave him a voice in how his workplace was run locally and to some extent how the USPS functioned nationally. Union members had a modicum of power in an environment where, but for the union, they'd have had none. Contrary to what anti-union propaganda would have people believe, the union most definitely did not negotiate sky-high pay rates far in excess of other blue-collar workers at the time. I think he earned a good wage for the era for a semi-skilled non-professional job but not a remarkable amount. That said he did have job security as a result of union representation, something that mattered more to him I think, with a stay-at-home wife and three kids, than the numbers on his paystub at the end of the month. Union membership resulted in my father having financial security while employed and during retirement and also having a certain amount of respect/power/dignity in the workplace when dealing with management. I sometimes wonder how blue-collar workers of his sort today (and many skilled white-collar workers for that matter) manage to keep their heads above water or have hope for the future. Do they have any idea how much they've lost as a result of the union-busting of the past 30-40 years? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_of_Letter_Carriers#Membership_and_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_of_Letter...

EnFinlay 10y ago

Anyone else find the article hard to read because the excerpts from the podcast were too manipulative and earnest? It just makes my skin crawl.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]