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This quote was stolen from the comments section on the original article by Brian_EE "I wonder how realistic the operations of the virtual airlines are. In the

This quote was stolen from the comments section on the original article by Brian_EE "I wonder how realistic the operations of the virtual airlines are. In the game, do you get to have local police come on your plane and beat up your passengers and drag them off before you take off on your flight route?"

grb423 9y ago
only if they resist lawful orders
- recursive 9y ago
  So is there a simulation of a legal system also? How will it determine lawfulness?
- bahmboo 9y ago
  You still don't get to "beat them up"
- macintux 9y ago
  Dying to know which part of that whole debacle was lawful.
  - sandworm101 9y ago
    Take it from a lawyer: Do not argue with them. Pilots and ship captains are special. Their word is law. You can sue them afterwards, you can report them to police and they could be charged if they had no good reason to order your removal. But at that moment on that plane they are kings. If a pilot wants you off you have to get off. Once the pilot requested police help there was nothing that man could have done to stay aboard. They should not have treated him in that way, they should not have been violent, but so long as the pilot wanted him off he was obligated.
    - inopinatus 9y ago
      Untrue in my jurisdiction and likely others. We have a limited range of circumstances in which the pilot in charge (or their delegates viz. cabin crew) may compel disembarkation. Drunkenness or presenting a safety risk are on that list. Overbooking is not. So no, I won't "take it from a lawyer".
      - sandworm101 9y ago
        That's isnt the same thing. The pilot can be incorrect. Him ordering your removal can be a criminal act. Him ordering you off could see him put in jail. There were cases about this decades ago (think white captains refusing black passengers). That doesn't mean that a passenger can stay once ordered off. Whether the removal order is legal or not comes afterwards.
        cmdrfred 9y ago
        You can beat the rap, you can't beat the ride.
      - jsz0 9y ago
        Anything that causes a delay can be a potential safety risk
        tigershark 9y ago
        Like trying to throw someone already boarded out of the plane, involving security officers, police, violence and broken teeth? Yes, I would definitely say that that kind of behaviour was a really outrageous safety risk. The pilot, accordingly to your narrative, should have thrown out of the aircraft all the crew and whoever was involved in this gigantic fuck up to avoid a very serious safety risk.
      - usrusr 9y ago
        So then one possible course of action in case of post-boarding overbooking would be free drinks until enough passengers are sufficiently drunk to be removed? One more for the endless list of less bad things that could have been done instead at the United incident.
jxramos 9y ago
Is this a reference to United Airlines? It's funny its going viral in all sorts of places! There was a comment here that was since deleted https://aviation.stackexchange.com/a/37169 https://aviation.stackexchange.com/a/37169 about carpets and being dragged off the plane.
sandworm101 9y ago
FS is pilot-focused. They dont simulate the exciting world of ticket counters and baggage limits. But there is probably a german sim that, from the makers of AirportSimulator (see nerdcubed's coverage of that series). German simulators are a strange market niche.
- Crespyl 9y ago
  I'd love to see "German Simulator 2017". Maybe it could be a day in the life of a simulator programmer.
- matt4077 9y ago
  I haven't wasted enough time on the United incident, but I would guess that the pilot did get involved at some point. They have, similar to a ship's captain, a legal status that goes beyond that of, say, a bus driver. I don't think the cabin crew would invite police onboard without the captain's approval. And, while I am German, I have not seen Ryanair Checkin Simulator 2000. I'll have to check the section behind the curtain, though. May have been x-rated for excessive violence and unsatisfactory kink. Of course, it's easy to create it yourself in Simulator Simulator 2017 if you have the "Extreme Queuing (Britain)" expansion pack.
  - tacostakohashi 9y ago
    I've also wondered about the pilots during the United incident, and media coverage has been strangely quiet on that topic. The executive summary of the incident seems to be that there just weren't any adults in the room. One can easily picture gate agents, flight attendants, and the aviation department staff involved basically feeling that they must follow instructions, being worried about breaking policies, being written up, whatever. You'd hope that if the whole thing were put in front of a pilot, they'd perhaps take a more wholistic, pragmatic, problem-solving view, and try a few other options first. Seems like almost anything would have been better - talking to the passengers, getting everybody to leave the plane and reboard / sort it out in the terminal, cancelling the flight, getting a bigger plane, putting the airline staff on a different airline, anything. If a pilot couldn't come up with a better solution to something like this, I'd worry how they'd fare in the air with a mechanical emergency.
VLM 9y ago
"Papers, Please" is kind of close http://papersplea.se/ http://papersplea.se/
- notwhoyouthink 9y ago
  I found Papers, Please to be a really fascinating game. I've been on a indie binge lately (Firewatch is another recent favorite) and I felt Papers, Please had a really great story that a lot of indie games are missing. Plenty of options and tough choices to make, with different outcomes for everything. I also appreciated that I could walk away at any point and pick it up later. I didn't feel "trapped" having to finish a mission like too many AAA games. Well worth the ten bucks in my opinion.

grb423 9y ago

only if they resist lawful orders

recursive 9y ago
So is there a simulation of a legal system also? How will it determine lawfulness?
bahmboo 9y ago
You still don't get to "beat them up"
macintux 9y ago
Dying to know which part of that whole debacle was lawful.
- sandworm101 9y ago
  Take it from a lawyer: Do not argue with them. Pilots and ship captains are special. Their word is law. You can sue them afterwards, you can report them to police and they could be charged if they had no good reason to order your removal. But at that moment on that plane they are kings. If a pilot wants you off you have to get off. Once the pilot requested police help there was nothing that man could have done to stay aboard. They should not have treated him in that way, they should not have been violent, but so long as the pilot wanted him off he was obligated.
  - inopinatus 9y ago
    Untrue in my jurisdiction and likely others. We have a limited range of circumstances in which the pilot in charge (or their delegates viz. cabin crew) may compel disembarkation. Drunkenness or presenting a safety risk are on that list. Overbooking is not. So no, I won't "take it from a lawyer".
    - sandworm101 9y ago
      That's isnt the same thing. The pilot can be incorrect. Him ordering your removal can be a criminal act. Him ordering you off could see him put in jail. There were cases about this decades ago (think white captains refusing black passengers). That doesn't mean that a passenger can stay once ordered off. Whether the removal order is legal or not comes afterwards.
      - cmdrfred 9y ago
        You can beat the rap, you can't beat the ride.
    - jsz0 9y ago
      Anything that causes a delay can be a potential safety risk
      - tigershark 9y ago
        Like trying to throw someone already boarded out of the plane, involving security officers, police, violence and broken teeth? Yes, I would definitely say that that kind of behaviour was a really outrageous safety risk. The pilot, accordingly to your narrative, should have thrown out of the aircraft all the crew and whoever was involved in this gigantic fuck up to avoid a very serious safety risk.
    - usrusr 9y ago
      So then one possible course of action in case of post-boarding overbooking would be free drinks until enough passengers are sufficiently drunk to be removed? One more for the endless list of less bad things that could have been done instead at the United incident.

jxramos 9y ago

Is this a reference to United Airlines? It's funny its going viral in all sorts of places! There was a comment here that was since deleted https://aviation.stackexchange.com/a/37169 https://aviation.stackexchange.com/a/37169 about carpets and being dragged off the plane.

sandworm101 9y ago

FS is pilot-focused. They dont simulate the exciting world of ticket counters and baggage limits. But there is probably a german sim that, from the makers of AirportSimulator (see nerdcubed's coverage of that series). German simulators are a strange market niche.

Crespyl 9y ago
I'd love to see "German Simulator 2017". Maybe it could be a day in the life of a simulator programmer.
matt4077 9y ago
I haven't wasted enough time on the United incident, but I would guess that the pilot did get involved at some point. They have, similar to a ship's captain, a legal status that goes beyond that of, say, a bus driver. I don't think the cabin crew would invite police onboard without the captain's approval. And, while I am German, I have not seen Ryanair Checkin Simulator 2000. I'll have to check the section behind the curtain, though. May have been x-rated for excessive violence and unsatisfactory kink. Of course, it's easy to create it yourself in Simulator Simulator 2017 if you have the "Extreme Queuing (Britain)" expansion pack.
- tacostakohashi 9y ago
  I've also wondered about the pilots during the United incident, and media coverage has been strangely quiet on that topic. The executive summary of the incident seems to be that there just weren't any adults in the room. One can easily picture gate agents, flight attendants, and the aviation department staff involved basically feeling that they must follow instructions, being worried about breaking policies, being written up, whatever. You'd hope that if the whole thing were put in front of a pilot, they'd perhaps take a more wholistic, pragmatic, problem-solving view, and try a few other options first. Seems like almost anything would have been better - talking to the passengers, getting everybody to leave the plane and reboard / sort it out in the terminal, cancelling the flight, getting a bigger plane, putting the airline staff on a different airline, anything. If a pilot couldn't come up with a better solution to something like this, I'd worry how they'd fare in the air with a mechanical emergency.

VLM 9y ago

"Papers, Please" is kind of close http://papersplea.se/ http://papersplea.se/

notwhoyouthink 9y ago
I found Papers, Please to be a really fascinating game. I've been on a indie binge lately (Firewatch is another recent favorite) and I felt Papers, Please had a really great story that a lot of indie games are missing. Plenty of options and tough choices to make, with different outcomes for everything. I also appreciated that I could walk away at any point and pick it up later. I didn't feel "trapped" having to finish a mission like too many AAA games. Well worth the ten bucks in my opinion.