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Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War

186 points by Cbasedlifeform 10y ago

lainproliant 10y ago
I used to have an Amex card because of Costco's exclusivity deal with them. I only used it to shop at Costco because many other places didn't accept Amex and my daily driver card has better benefits. I didn't feel like applying for another credit card when the Costco deal ended, so it just ended up being turned into a Citi Visa that I pretty much never use.
- coredog64 10y ago
  I think you can still use something of a hack to shop at Costco and rack up AmEx rewards. You can purchase gift cards online with pretty much any credit card and then use the gift cards in the warehouse. A co-worker did that with his rewards Visa for a long time when AmEx was the only credit card accepted in Costco warehouses.
- joeyo 10y ago
  The Costco Citi Visa gives pretty solid cash back percentages [1]. What do you use that's better? 1. https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/credit-card-details/citi.action?ID=Citi-costco-anywhere-visa-credit-card https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/credit-card-details/citi.a...
function_seven 10y ago
It's always a bit disconcerting to find out that a decision I thought I made independently is actually part of some larger overall trend. This happens a lot to me. For a decade before last year, I used an Amex card exclusively. Then I switched to a Sapphire card for the great signing bonus and better rewards. (It's also metal, and as much as I'd like to pretend that doesn't sway me, it does.) Now I find out that this is a "thing" and that I'm just another part of the overall trend. Oh well. If Amex successfully counters this move, I'll happily return. Their customer service has been spectacular the few times I needed them.
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  I generally keep at least one miles/points-earning card around, because every place I've lived for the past half-decade has allowed me to pay my rent with a credit card (I'm going to spend that money anyway, why not put it on the card and pay it off the next day so I get something out of it?). None of the places I've lived have accepted American Express, so all branded/points-earning Amex cards are basically useless to me.
  - kylehotchkiss 10y ago
    Oh I wish I could do that too but the $45 credit card fee for $20 in points doesn't ever make sense for me
    - ubernostrum 10y ago
      I used to live in a place where my rent -- for a nice apartment -- was about $1k/month. That's 12,000 points a year from putting rent on the card, and there are airlines where that's right around the lower bound of redeeming a flight. If your rent is higher than that, of course, it becomes a better deal.
      - seanp2k2 9y ago
        The way this all works is the merchant pays a fee to process you CC and the bank splits that fee with you. Gas stations are somewhat smart about this in that they charge you more when using a card since they're paying more for the transaction. However, it's annoying to consumers to charge a higher price depending on payment method. Not sure why gas stations are the only ones getting away with it.
    - seanp2k2 9y ago
      Strange, every apartment I've lived in required checks or ACH. One missed payment and they require a cashier's check for that month + the next month. They also required a cashiers check for the deposit.
  - 10y ago
dawnerd 10y ago
I've been finding Fewer and fewer places that accept Amex. Sometimes when you hand over an Amex they'll give you a look since you're costing them money. If hey really want to compete they need to lower their merchant rates.
- function_seven 10y ago
  That's kind of a dilemma for them, though. They have been very successful up until now by distinguishing themselves from all the other cards with extra perks and a premium level of service. To pay for those perks and that service, they charge more on the merchant end, with an implied value that their members spend more and are worth courting. Now that this trend is shifting, merchants aren't seeing the value in accepting an expensive Amex card, and are deciding to go without. But Amex still needs something to separate them from the rest of the pack, lest they become just another commodity card. Once that happens (and the merchant network is slow to adapt), users may just switch to the Visa or MasterCard they're already carrying and forget about Amex altogether.
- DiabloD3 10y ago
  I don't know anyone I do regular business with that doesn't accept all four.
  - ajdlinux 9y ago
    Here in Australia it's probably 50/50 that any given merchant will accept Amex or Diners, and of those that do, surcharging up to around 3% (though I've seen up to 7% before!) for Amex is quite common, particularly at small businesses.
- smackfu 9y ago
  OTOH, I think small businesses using Square has actually made it a lot less of a problem. The business just takes everything without having to make a decision about it.
patejam 10y ago
>“I don’t think it would be American Express,” one diner said. “I feel like that would be braggy, like I’m trying to prove I’m a big shot.” >Others nodded in agreement. “I’d probably use this,” said another, pulling out a blue-tinged credit card. “An Amex says you’re rich, but this says you’re interesting.” Where did they find these people? When did using the CSR become a statement? Everyone I know got it for the free money, and uses whatever card gets the most points for whatever purchase.
- in_cahoots 10y ago
  I think the real test will be how many people pay the renewal fee. You can get 2% cards for cheaper/free so in all but the most frequent travelers keeping it for a second year is more about the status symbol than the benefits.
  - arcticbull 10y ago
    Freedom Unlimited + Reserve nets 2.25% cash back on everything and 4.5% on travel and dining, and the annual fee nets out to $150 once you take the travel credit into account. Used properly, it's probably the most rewarding card/combo out there.
    - xapata 10y ago
      I've been using Fidelity's 2% back AmEx since forever. I was happy when they changed it to Visa and kept the same rate. But for that extra .25% I might have to switch. Edit: reading more, it looks like that rate is only for purchasing travel through their site. Not worth it.
      - arcticbull 10y ago
        It is, yes, only when used for travel via their portal. Totally possible it's not worth it for you, but I certainly get by :) Being able to redeem as 2.25% cash if I want or 1.5X as airline miles is a ton of flexibility. Means if I want to fly Korean First to Asia, its 80K miles one-way. If I find a cheap flight, it's often better to redeem as cash. I fly a lot though. The usual cash-back card I point people to is the Citi Double Cash 2% flat with no annual fee -- didn't realize the Fidelity went Visa!
empath75 10y ago
The new Amex cash card is pretty solid with 6% back on groceries and 3% back on gas and department stores (and 10% on restaurants for 6 months), but those aren't exactly prestige categories. I use that for everyday spending and the sapphire card for travel.
- huangc10 10y ago
  Interesting. What card is this? Can you provide a link? Is there an yearly fee for this card?
  - eam 10y ago
    It's the Amex Blue Cash Preferred card.
  - forbiddenlake 10y ago
    Yes. There's a fee. The non-fee version is only 3% at restaurants.
- skannamalai 10y ago
  I've been rocking the same combo (Amex Blue Cash Preferred + Chase Sapphire Reserve) for a while now and I still marvel at how they compliment one another for max rewards across Groceries/Gas + Travel/Dining. The only category I have left would be Amazon really but I still buy 500 dollar Amazon gift cards at supermarkets rather get the Amazon store card to get total rewards coverage for my needs.
alxmdev 10y ago
> “Or, more precisely, snobbery has to be hidden and camouflaged as something else” Yes, just like this advertisement seems to have been hidden and camouflaged as a New York Times article...
deleted 10y ago
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SanFranManDan 10y ago
This article doesn't say anything about using your card abroad or how widely accepted Amex is. I have an Amex and use it for all my subscriptions, and spending when I'm in the US. In the rare chance that I can't use Amex, I have capital one venture. When I use Amex, almost universally people comment that my card looks cool and take it and play with it. But whenever I recommend Amex to someone, it is always met with "but I won't be able to use it everywhere", generally they are talking about the US, but the same sentiment applies abroad also. Its true, when I am outside the US, I can't use Amex, I have to use my Venture card. How much of the drop can be attributed to the fact that now say in a country like Brazil, even people selling packs of gum from mobile tables accept MC and Visa? How many more millennials travel abroad? How many want to use the same card in whatever country the find themselves in and not have to worry?
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  Barclays is quietly working that segment of the market. They are (or were last I checked) the only issuer providing cards to people in the US which actually support chip and PIN (instead of only doing chip and signature).
  - throwaway91111 10y ago
    When will they just ping my phone to confirm the purchase? Are they stuck in the sixties?
    - Veratyr 10y ago
      I don't want my CC company pinging my phone, a PIN is much more convenient: PIN: Insert card, 1234, enter. Phone: Insert card, wait for notification, unlock phone, select notification, confirm purchase, wait for confirmation to get back. Plus, if you're somewhere without cell reception or your phone battery is dead, what do you do?
  - graton 10y ago
    First Tech Federal Credit Union also issues chip & PIN cards. I think all of their cards are chip & PIN https://www.firsttechfed.com/credit_cards/choice_rewards https://www.firsttechfed.com/credit_cards/choice_rewards
sddfd 10y ago
The conclusion is not reasonable: what has competition in the credit card business to do with the end of the latest recession?
hunterwerlla 10y ago
This is relevant to a decision I made today. I was deciding which travel card to get between the amex platinum and the chase sapphire reserve, and I went with the sapphire reserve. I felt the amex's perks were catered more towards business travelers doing expensive things, while the chase card was more focused on people who travel for fun. However, I do not understand why people think the sapphire reserve is not a snobbish card like amex: it has a $450 a year fee, which is almost as much as the amex platinum's $550 fee, is ~metal~, and is trying to capture the same group of people.
- huangc10 10y ago
  $450 yearly fee with $300 travel credit. This includes Uber/Lyft and public transportation. It's basically $150/yr, unless you don't use any of the $300 travel credit.
  - hunterwerlla 10y ago
    True, but you can't say that it doesn't have a $450 fee, the amex has $200 for travel expenses and $200 for uber but that doesn't mean it has a $150 fee either. The fee is a large upfront cost for most people.
  - praneshp 10y ago
    As an economy traveller, I didn't realize how much international trips were if I used a lounge for hops. The CSR comes with free access to a large number of airport lounges, which was a benefit I was surprised I used.
    - arcticbull 10y ago
      Amex lounge benefits are now the same as Chase, both offer a Priority Pass Select, and now AFAIK offer the same number of guests. Amex also offers access to Amex Centurion lounges which are among the better domestic lounges.
      - saryant 10y ago
davidu 10y ago
This article focuses on the emotional attachment to a card, but that's not the driver. It just comes out that way. I spend a lot of time on FlyerTalk where the decline of Amex has been discussed over and over. There were mistakes made on the revenue side, and on the rewards side. Three events basically tilted the entire balance away from Amex: 1. Failed negotiation with CostCo and losing the CostCo credit business. 2. The United and Continental merger that signed the death of the United / Amex relationship as all of that credit business moved to Chase and United was removed as a redemption partner, which was the number one membership rewards partner by a long-shot. 3. The loss of JetBlue as a partner that demotivated Amex in the affluent NYC credit theatre. There were many other mistakes made, but those three had a compounding effect on Amex's negotiating leverage to earn transactions, carry cards, and to offer valuable rewards that drive member sentiment. That's it. Three moves, each on their own survivable, but in concert essentially destroyed a well-balanced equation. The question is, how will they catapult out of this?
- function_seven 10y ago
  > The question is, how will they catapult out of this? They could sign a deal with Amazon to provide a Prime card that gives the cardholder $0 Amazon Prime when they use the card. EDIT: I'm not suggesting that this is the ONLY benefit, just something comparable to the previous Costco arrangement they had.
  - seattle_spring 10y ago
    $80 / year is a terrible credit card reward compared to almost all other credit cards. It would have to be free Amazon Prime + 5% back on all Amazon purchases + $500 sign up bonus.
    - function_seven 10y ago
      True, but I was searching for something comparable to the Costco deal they used to have. That perk was also pretty cheap (Isn't Costco membership in the same ballpark?) But yeah, throw some extra points/cash back in there as well. I'd go for that in a heartbeat, and so would a lot of the demographic they're currently losing.
skylark 10y ago
Chase's marketing team hit it out of the park with the Sapphire Preferred (and now Reserve.) This is going to sound stupid, but the Preferred/Reserve lines are fun to use. They have a metal core which makes the card feel heavy. Cashiers would always comment on the card's weight. It feels satisfying when you drop it on the table at a restaurant. The perks aren't the best in the industry, but they're good enough, and the incredible amount of points you got when you switched over lowered the barrier to entry enough to make the move. Without a doubt it's the "coolest" card in my wallet, and probably will be until I get an Amex Black (yeah, right.)
- _raoulcousins 10y ago
  I have the reserve, and was disappointed that the latest Chase Amazon Visa is also metal. If too many cards are metal, it becomes less special. The heft of the metal makes me want to spend more, but not if every card has the same heft!
  - tbyehl 9y ago
    When did that happen? I just got a replacement Chase Amazon Visa Signature a couple months ago -- it's not embossed, but it ain't metal.
- dnr 10y ago
  I really dislike the metal in the card. I feel pretentious every time I use it. I still use it, of course, for the points.
- cthalupa 10y ago
  The Amex platinum is metal now as well. Actually just ordered my replacement.
- venomsnake 10y ago
  Look at that subtle off-white coloring. The tasteful thickness of it. Oh my God, it even has a watermark.
- throwaway91111 10y ago
huangc10 10y ago
This is just me: I use whatever card I get the most points/benefits from for whatever scenario (travel, food, gas, groceries etc.). I couldn't care less what people think of me when I pull out my card. It just so happens Chase has been pushing out cards that benefits my lifestyle the most. *edit grammr
- nols 10y ago
  You couldn't care less
mattpratt 10y ago
I'm interested to watch retention through the first year for this card. The most attractive aspect for myself and many was the sign on bonus which was recently halved (https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/chase-sapphire-reserve-cutting-sign-up-bonus/ https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/chase-sapphire-...).
- velodrome 10y ago
  Many are looking to churn (cash in and leave)...The rest are doing it for utility and/or status. Read the SlickDeals thread: https://slickdeals.net/f/9036199-chase-sapphire-reserve-100k-ultimate-reward-points-w-4k-spend-in-3-months-1650-in-1st-year-benefits-expires-1-12-2017 https://slickdeals.net/f/9036199-chase-sapphire-reserve-100k...
user5994461 10y ago
What's the point of an Amex or Sapphire compared to a regular VISA or mastercard? Disclaimer: I am european, Amex doesn't exist here and you can't pay anything anywhere with that. Never heard about Sapphire before today. Maybe you guys don't have VISA and mastercard on your side of the Atlantic?
- brianwawok 10y ago
  Visa and MC are probably 75% of all cards in the US. Anyone takes them. Discover and Amex are less giant.
- stock_toaster 10y ago
  Amex vs Visa/MC - Amex had historically good flight/miles tie-ins (not as good these days), purchase coverage (returns, car insurance, etc), and concierge service for higher level cards. Odd as it sounds, good reporting on billing, and a requirement to pay off at the end of each month, made it appealing to some businesses for corporate credit cards. Yes, we have both Visa and MC over here.
- saryant 10y ago
  The Sapphire Reserve is a Visa credit card issued by Chase. It's not a new card network.
  - user5994461 10y ago
    What's the difference then?
    - saryant 10y ago
      Perks. More points, lounge access, concierge programs, insurance.
    - function_seven 10y ago
      Think of Amex like the iPhone/iOS. Only Apple makes it, they deliver the hardware and the software. Visa/MC are Android. Samsung (Chase), LG (Citi), HTC (BofA) are the hardware makers (card issuers) but they're all delivering the same Android (Visa/MC) I don't have an analogy for Discover...
danso 10y ago
I hadn't heard about the Sapphire card until a few weeks ago when I read this WSJ story, "If You Have 29 Credit Cards, You’re Probably a Millennial" http://archive.is/XEYJY http://archive.is/XEYJY It details the efforts of someone who managed to get a Sapphire Reserve card after dressing up as a Sapphire Reserve card for Halloween and sending a photo of it to Chase: > “I’m kind of a credit-card—maybe junkie is not the right word—but I’m a credit-card enthusiast,” says Mary Xu, a San Francisco cybersecurity manager. In pursuit of points, she spends more than $1,000 a year on annual fees for high-end cards. > She was so disappointed to be rejected for the Sapphire Reserve last October that she spent hours constructing a costume of the card out of cardboard. She sent the bank a photo of herself dressed up, hoping for a second chance. She was approved about three months later.
swang 10y ago
That reminds me, I need to cancel my AMEX...
dade_ 10y ago
I don't think smart wealthy people pay a dime in service fees. I gave the privilege of collecting transaction fees on my purchases to HSBC, who charges me nothing. It has all the usual premium card perks, though not the latest silly ones. I'll buy my own Uber credits.
- saryant 10y ago
  I suppose it depends on your definition of "silly" but perks like Amex's Centurion lounges, their concierge program, hotel privileges and (of course) points all outweigh the annual fee for me.
- revelation 10y ago
  Smart people wouldn't pay the equivalent of a 2% sales tax to a private corporation in exchange for gimmicks. The best part is that they realized you can keep the people from finding out that they are being royally ripped off by giving every single 30 card toting person the special feeling that they are the one getting back more than they put in.
  - rrdharan 10y ago
    For your logic to make sense businesses would have to charge 2% less for using cash. Very few do so.
    - hectormalot 9y ago
      If i recall correctly, this was more common but was lobbied against by the CC companies (and might not be allowed anymore in certain states?)
      - jameskegel 9y ago
        You recall wrong; cash discounts are fine
  - MrRadar 9y ago
    Cash itself isn't cost-free for businesses. There's the extra time it takes to count change for customers, the mistakes cashiers make when counting change, there's the time it takes to count the register at the end of a shift, the cost of a safe to hold cash on-site, the risk of counterfeit bills (when I cashiered we'd check $50s and $100s but not $20s and lower since it would take too long), and the cost of transporting the cash to the bank (either in the cost of an armored car or the risk of getting robbed on the way to the bank (which happened at another location while I was cashiering, after that they switched to an armored car)).
smaili 10y ago
While by no means is this an apples to apples comparison, but for me this debate has always felt like PC/Mac vs Unix/Linux computers. Yes, the latter may seem/feel cooler, but there is far more support with the former platforms and to me that's always been the motivating factor.
code4tee 10y ago
The AmEx lounges are much nicer than the airline lounges... only bad thing is that there aren't more of them
- saryant 10y ago
  If the rumor about an Amex lounge in Denver is true I'll drop Chase in a heartbeat.
arcticbull 10y ago
Over the last 5-ish years they: (1) Lost US Airways lounge access from the Amex platinum (merger). (2) Lost Continental as a transfer partner for MR (merger). (3) Lost Continental lounge access from the Amex platinum (merger). (4) Lost Delta lounge guest access. (5) Saw serious devaluations in Aeroplan for MR. (6) Saw serious devaluations in Delta for MR (no more 50% transfer bonuses). (7) Saw serious devaluations in BA for MR (transfer 1:1 with 50% bonuses to 1:0.8 with occasional bonuses). (8) No more points lending (you used to be able to transfer more than you had if you earned them back within a year, otherwise they'd bill you). (9) Lost JetBlue co-brand card. (10) Lost Costco co-brand card. (11) Saw Plenti flop, and I haven't really heard much of Bluebird. A few years ago, you needed 120,000 Amex points for a first-class round-the-world flight with no fuel surcharges and 2 stopovers in addition to your destination. That price has pretty much doubled in points and gone up 100x in cash. It's just not as rewarding as it used to be. On the other hand, Chase jumped in, offered lower-fee cards ($95 for Preferred vs $175 for Amex PRG) with more valuable transfer partners -- especially before the United devaluation -- and large signup bonuses. They were friendlier, less stodgy and offered a better value proposition overall in 2011 with the Sapphire Preferred. Then they upped the stakes with the Reserve. Amex should be worried.
- doug1001 10y ago
  nice one--i wasn't aware of most of these. also, i remember amex had exclusive deals with a few ultra high end retailers, Nieman Marcus, for one, and those are out--eg, so up until about 10 years ago, that was the only credit card accepted at NM.
- throwaway91111 10y ago
  If you don't fly, what distinguishes the two?
  - arcticbull 10y ago
    Fair question, actually. They're rather similar, but if you're not flying neither is probably right. If you want a daily driver and no interest in travel rewards, check out the Citi Double Cash. 2% flat cash back on everything, no annual fee, but watch the forex fees -- not that you'll pay them often if you don't fly :)
inmygarage 10y ago
Amex flooded their signed-in experience with awful pop-ups: upgrade your card! get a personal loan! It's distracting when, as a user, I'm simply trying to see how much I need to pay. I switched to Chase.
- jlgaddis 9y ago
  Mine (Amex PLT) is set up to simply auto-pay the full amount a few days before the due date. I haven't logged in to their web site in months.
ams6110 10y ago
I use AMEX because their anti-fraud and customer service is the best I've ever experienced. I refuse to use Chase anything because of how poorly they treat their lower income customers (staging transactions to maximize overdraft fees, etc.) When I'm someplace that won't take AMEX, I use Discover. If they won't take Discover I use my credit union Visa.
- protomyth 10y ago
  > I refuse to use Chase anything because of how poorly they treat their lower income customers (staging transactions to maximize overdraft fees, etc.) Yep, a true pain to explain to someone how pulling that stunt is legal. About the same fun as banks cashing checks in order to maximize overdraft fees. AMEX also does the Bluebird cards which are pretty nice for poor folks since you can do direct deposit to the card itself and it has no charge refilling at Walmart.
softbuilder 10y ago
I don't know what the perception is today, but Amex used to be known for outstanding (like, truly outstanding) customer service. I had a regular Amex and then a gold in the mid 2000s and I found that was no longer the case. They also used to stand apart from other credit cards, much more like old-school bankers used to be. When I was using them they started to act more and more like regular credit card companies. There was also an ownership change at some point iirc. I think they just lost their way, and along with it their differentiating value.
- cthalupa 10y ago
  I've had nothing but outstanding experiences with American Express customer service, even in the past few years. Miles ahead of what I've experienced with Chase and other issuers.
  - softbuilder 10y ago
    I don't doubt it. They always treated me well on the phone, but when I needed them to actually fix a problem they fell on their face and thew up their hands like they were powerless. I ended up having to solve it myself which blew the whole point of using them. I may be an outlier.
- rdl 9y ago
  Amex CS has gotten a lot weaker in the past few years; it got moved overseas. Closing the actual physical Amex offices also was a big step down (I've been a member since 97). I would not want to bet on Amex at this point -- losing Costco, competition from Chase, and now Citi pushing to expand their own cards. I'm surprised there hasn't been a lower-merchant-fees challenger now that everyone has a mobile phone; you could probably do something which presents at POSes as a credit card, handles a bunch of auth back through the customer's own mobile phone connection (but encrypted/authenticated), presenting a time of use credential which is matched by the POS while appearing as a regular credit card. Building something like that which costs the merchant <1%, and maybe which provides customers with a lot more purchasing/receipt info (for company purchasing cards).
mstade 10y ago
Amex has two great perks that justifies the cost for me: - Excellent travel insurance - 15-20% discount on car rentals with Hertz and Avis, priority service including complimentary upgrades, and no extra fees for super cover Additionally their fraud detection and customer service is great. If my card is stolen or there are unauthorized transactions, they'll sort it out immediately and get Anne's card in your hands within the day. As a European who travels a lot in Europe and across the Atlantic, there's no other card that offers the same. Then there's all the rest, VIP access, airport lounges, concierge service etc. Those are nice extras. I pay everything on my Amex. Some smaller shops don't take Amex, but most places I've been seem to accept it. The few times I have to fall back to a Visa or MC I struggle to recall the pin.
- perseusprime11 10y ago
  What about the scummy car rental insurance? Does Amex cover that?
  - ben1040 10y ago
    If you decline the car rental company's insurance and charge the rental fee to your Amex, then Amex has a free car rental insurance plan. It's essentially secondary to any other coverage you carry, so if you wreck a rental car and already carry collision insurance, then it hits your coverage first and the Amex plan just pays your deductible. They've also got an opt-in plan where any time you rent a car with your card they charge you a $25 flat free, and then that buys you coverage that runs primary so you don't have to claim against your own car insurance at all.
    - rallison 10y ago
      This was actually one of the reasons I ended up getting the Reserve card - it includes primary car rental insurance for no extra fee.
  - mstade 9y ago
    Yes, this is what I meant by super cover. Essentially you just rent without any additional coverage and Amex will cover anything not covered by the rental agency's insurance. This saves a good $20/day at least, meaning if you rent cars for just a few weeks per year the fee will be worth it, when considering the discount as well. I've racked up about 7-8 weeks of car rental so far since New Years, and thanks to Amex I saved a bunch of money on it, probably more than the fee. Another good feature is I've sometimes had to return the cars in different cities, and every time they waived the fee because of the preferred status as a card carrying member. These things add up for sure. As far as I know, the insurance also works with any agency, so not just Avis and Hertz, so there's money to save even if you go for a more "fun" agency like Sixt, with nicer cars. Disclaimer: You'll want to verify all this with Amex though, but this is what I've been told and what I've read in the ToS.
tristor 10y ago
I've got both cards and have traveled all over the world with them. I'm not giving up my Amex ever. They've saved my ass in big and small ways so many times and I just don't trust Chase to do the same. I do love the way the CSR looks and feels though, and it's essential to have a Visa or MasterCard when traveling as so many places only accept those two. Chase is doing great, I will keep both for the foreseeable future. It's going to take time to completely steal me from Amex though, they've been doing right by me for more than 10 years.
- deleted 10y ago
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- wsc981 10y ago
  In Thailand I can't seem to use my Amex card to get money from ATM's, but my MasterCard works fine.
  - deleted 10y ago
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  - brookside 9y ago
    Isn't it generally best get get money from an ATM using a debit card? (Money withdrawal being charged as an immediate cash advance with a high interest rate)
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  This reminds me of my friends who met an elderly retired couple on a cruise. They were Amex black card holders, and said that the biggest reason they carried it was that if something happened to them medically (the husband was a retired physician to boot), Amex would come through and get them to the best hospital in whatever part of the world they'd be in. That kind of support and service can be a huge difference maker to people who have experienced or can perceive such niche cases.
  - jeffwilcox 9y ago
    Super interesting, sure, but the Centurion card ("black card") is much more elite - minimum spend, $7,500 just to get the card, etc. Great offering from Amex but a different league than the middle class cards like Chase Sapphire, Amex Platinum, etc.
iambateman 10y ago
I have a run of the mill Amex and definitely just use it for the perks. If my Visa card offered 6% on groceries I would use that too...
rkho 10y ago
I have both the Amex Platinum and Chase Sapphire Reserve. If I could only justify one annual fee, I'd keep the Platinum. The Centurion Lounges are second to none in the US and Amex's end-to-end ownership of its purchase/return/travel protection benefits is too good to give up. I recently attempted to file a return protection claim with my Sapphire Reserve for a display cable that turned out to be faulty. I tried the Visa Infinite site, but Visa as an organization doesn't recognize the United States as a Visa Infinite country yet so I couldn't find anything relevant there. Then I recalled eclaimsline, which was the site I used a while ago when I had the Sapphire Preferred. It asked for my first/last name and credit card number, and then did not show me the option to file a 'return protection' claim -- just purchase and travel protection. After that, I went on Chase's website and dug through their documentation and eventually found cardbenefitservices.com, where I was prompted to create a new account and then verify my card number again. Upon filing a claim, I was asked to upload my purchase receipt and credit card statement proving the charge had hit my account. I waited one week and received an email in my spam folder that asked me to mail the item at my own expense to Visa before my claim could finish processing -- mind you, this is for a $20 display cable. My experience with Amex would have been a three-step online form containing a very small number of fields followed by an immediate credit within 48 hours.
- throwaway91111 10y ago
  What is a centurion lounge? You cant just drop that shit without explaining. Is it like a university club; like a place where members chill, drink, and play tennis? EDIT: it's just a room at an airport.
  - cycrutchfield 10y ago
    It's an airport lounge with free hot meals and alcoholic beverages. But yeah, it's also a room.
    - xyzzy_plugh 10y ago
      And massages and showers and fast wi-fi
gaoshan 10y ago
I use Amex (Blue Cash Preferred) because I get more cash back. I don't fly often so getting actual cash for the sorts of everyday purchases that dominate my usual spending works well for me. Amex has the best deals for that. The thought that people will choose a card for its signaling to others or, even more ridiculous, for its "feel" and/or look just makes me think people need to step back and reassess how they live.
- DiabloD3 10y ago
  I'd also like to drop in and say my Blue Cash Preferred is my favorite card out of all of the ones I've collected over the years. That 6% grocery cash back, ungh, so good.
morgante 10y ago
This article seems delusional, either on the part of Amex or the reporter. Chase isn't winning because Amex is too snobby or due to "cachet." They're winning because the Platinum rewards are inferior to the CSR, even after the recent updates. In fact, Amex did probably the stupidest thing possible by increasing the annual fee precisely when they're under threat. As much as I like the Platinum, it's hard for me to justify keeping it this year when the CSR is so rewarding. And that has nothing to do with wanting to avoid appearing snobby (after all, I do love the metal CSR).
fooey 10y ago
I must be poor. I had zero clue at all that having an Amex was prestigious in any way.
- pinum 10y ago
  This. I knew about the Centurion, but I considered their normal cards to be on the same standing as any other. I have their free Everyday card, because they're pretty much the only issues in the UK who still offer cashback.
  - phil21 9y ago
    And you are correct. Only the Centurion has any social signaling power (real, at least). Any other Amex? It's just a credit card, who gives a shit.
    - rdl 9y ago
      Amex Corp Card with the name of a well-known and respected company still has some social signaling power, I think. (Like if the card said SpaceX under the user's name)
Finbarr 10y ago
There's a good discussion about this on the churning subreddit[1]. One of my hobbies has been maximizing rewards over the last few years. I've had the Amex Gold, but Platinum rewards have never looked good enough to justify it for me. I'll keep the CSR until something better comes along, but it's easily the best card I've had. Part of Amex's problem is the ease of access to information about which cards are actually good. They can't rely on image anymore. I don't buy into the article's argument about the CSR making the purchaser "interesting" at all. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/65e347/amex_challenged_by_chase_is_losing_the_snob_war/ https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/65e347/amex_chall...
- clubm8 10y ago
  Ironically one fringe benefit about having a CSR is people often mistake the blue metal Chase for a black metal Amex :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_Card https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_Card
jpatokal 10y ago
I use Amex whenever I can because it gets me the most frequent flyer points, which in turn is because it has the highest merchant fees. I also use Android Pay, which means nobody can even see what card I use...
- rak00n 9y ago
  I wish more restaurants would accept Android pay. Right now I only use it in Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and sometimes in some random gas station which comes as a surprise.
throwaway91111 10y ago
How is this not a commodity market yet?
xopovue 10y ago
Wow
xopovue 10y ago
Wow
cobookman 9y ago
Amex travel sight also gives great discounts btw. I once got a fairmont hotel room for the price of a mariotte. And it came with an upgraded room, free breakfast each day, and $100 to spend while at the hotel.
scurvy 9y ago
The Amex Platinum paid out over $2k in benefits on my honeymoon alone (2 free nights at a Four Seasons, upgraded rooms, free breakfast for 2 every day, and a resort credit) through the Fine Hotels and Resorts program. I don't always travel like that, but I did then and the yearly fee was more than worth it.
rdl 9y ago
I have both, and end up putting 60% of my spend on SPG Amex (Starwood hotels for sure, and then anything generic), 10% (Amazon) on the Amazon Chase Prime Visa (5% back...), 20% (dining and other bonus categories, merchants that don't take amex) on the Chase Sapphire Reserve, and VX on the VX credit card, IHG on IHG card, UA on UA card, etc. Amex Platinum (MR) has pretty bad values for point redemption -- it's a good card to have for access to lounges and for certain airline tickets, but it's generally not the best return for most purchases. If you're eligible, there's a 2.5% back USAA credit card which is probably the cash-back winner, otherwise SPG seems to win for value, but I've seen some 5-7% return cases for the CSR too (Asian mileage tickets in C or F). There's also the fact that personal Amex PLT is $550/yr (now), with ~$200/yr in Uber reimbursements spread out over the year and a few other things. The biggest benefit of PLT is the Centurion Lounge, which for US domestic travel is nice if you're in those airports, but for international it's Priority Pass Select on both CSR and PLT. CSR is $450/yr with $300/yr in credit for virtually any travel, so it's net $150/yr. PP Select is worth that alone, and a bunch of other benefits. I'd drop Amex Platinum if I wanted to drop a card (and I actually just have the OPEN Small Business version; I don't have a personal PLT).
arjie 9y ago
LOL. Classic. You guys spend all your spare time talking about ad blocking and then what's left is spent on posting blatant advertisements to each other. Hilarious. The only thing missing from this is the 'press release' tag.
niuzeta 9y ago
I spent five minutes reading the article, another several minutes to contemplate if I've been pranked by the "new york times", then spent another minute feeling... lost. The auspicious "New York Times", to me, would have a standard to present more inquisitive spins into story like this. What a shame. I was waiting for the punchline then realized at the end that the punch was thrown, just never registered. To summarize this article, it starts off with a claim that Amex executives are worried that Chase is taking more "young professionals". Then the article discusses why that happens in this paragraph: > A credit card, mystifyingly, had suddenly become cool. And what really got under Amex executives’ skin was that Chase was succeeding by, essentially, copying the American Express playbook and chasing the same up-and-coming elites who had traditionally joined Amex’s ranks. "mystifyingly" being the key word here. There is no investigation, no speculation, no data gathering, no journalism. There is a claim that a Chase card "seems to be gaining preference" in the young professionals crowd. Why is this a thing? Why is Chase being preferred over Amex? Is Chase even actually being preferred over Amex? Is there a poll, at least? The only paragraph that attempts to answer any of the questions is this disjointed one in the middle of rambles: > “The message we send is, this isn’t your father’s credit card,” said Pam Codispoti, who created the Chase Sapphire Reserve after 18 years at Amex. “For millennials, travel might mean taking an Uber to a hole-in-the-wall restaurant in Chinatown, and then riding the subway to karaoke, and then catching a taxi home. So we’re going to give you accelerated travel points on all that. This is a card for accumulating experiences.” Other than that, there's no presentation of facts, but a rambling of speculations and hearsay. I feel as if I've been served an advertisement for Chase on thin veil. Do I have to start vetting articles from the "New York Times" for quality too? How disappointing.
- massysett 9y ago
  You should absolutely vet NYT articles for quality. I canceled my subscription to NYT because they are not putting out journalism worth paying $35 a month for.
  - dopamean 9y ago
    You were paying $35/mo for The Times?
myrandomcomment 9y ago
Amex Platinum for the win. Customer service is the best and they make things simple. Have an issue, just give them a call. Don't want to call, website is simple to use. A few years ago my wife and I were in LAX heading to Dublin via London. My wife left her card at home. Oops. Gave them a call. "I see your hotel reservation in Dublin here. A new card will be waiting for you when you arrive." It took all of 4 minutes. 11 hours later show up to the hotel and there is an envelope with a new card for my wife.
cs702 9y ago
More than two decades ago, I lost my Amex card (or perhaps it was stolen) in Chiang Mai, Thailand. I dialed the call-collect phone number on the back of a traveling companion's card, and explained everything to an Amex representative. The next day they had a replacement card waiting for me at the hotel lobby. I still don't know how they pulled it off. In that instant, I became a lifetime customer. AFAIK, no other credit card firm offers the same level and quality of service.
- branchless 9y ago
  No other credit card charges vendors anywhere near as much per transaction. My wife worked for a flight booking company in the UK. They absorbed the charge for all credit cards except Amex, who were far higher. In that moment I swore never to sign up to Amex.
- NelsonMinar 9y ago
  Chase should be able to do that kind of card replacement too. Me, I cancelled my AmEx the second time they flagged my card-present $30 grocery store transaction as fraud. There was no other hint of fraud on the account, but my buying groceries 100 miles from my home (in California) was enough to trip their algorithm. I could forgive the false positive, but AmEx's customer experience here is terrible. They declined the transaction and then called my call phone from an unrecognized caller ID. The call came from an Indian call center with very poorly trained staff reading a script at me to verify I had the card. So here I am in a stressful situation: can't buy my groceries, embarrassed my card is declined. And they decide that's the time to outsource to some lowest-bidder call center. Talk about contempt for the customer.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    Fraud declines can be really random. I put a lot of travel on my cards and in the last couple of years I had a decline at a grocery store while traveling and a decline at a gas station convenience store. Fortunately, someone else was with me for one of those and the amount was piddling with the second. I now always carry a spare card from a different bank although I'm not certain I wouldn't have issues if I suddenly started putting big charges on a card I rarely use.
tiatia 9y ago
Well, what makes the cards so great? Seriously? * Collect miles? I prefer the Cash back I have with my CC. * Zero foreign transaction fees is a nice feature. * Create virtual credit cards is a good feature. * Travel insurance? Have a better one that any CC could offer me, including air evacuation. Don't need that with my CC and also would be worried about the fine print. * Lounge Access? If you are a frequent flyer you should have Elite or whatever status anyway, hence I don't need this either. If you really need a card with "lounge access", Diners Club is still available in some European countries for less than US$ 100 per year. (Dines Club Lunge access included) If I miss something with my CC then it is bicoin access: https://bitpay.com/visa/ https://bitpay.com/visa/ If you need a "prestigious" card, try here: http://creditcardforum.com/blog/most-prestigious-credit-cards/ http://creditcardforum.com/blog/most-prestigious-credit-card... AH, Just saw. 100 bucks for, at least previously, 100k miles is not so bad. Most "prestigious" cards I know have fees from 400-1000 USD "Introductory Annual Fee of $0 the first year, then $95."
mark_l_watson 9y ago
In the past I have always just used my bank's VISA or Martercard offerings. Last year I joined American Express and I am very happy with the service, not having my card put on hold on long trips, and the web app. I must admit that this article made me want to also try the Chase Sapphire Reserve but for now I probably won't.

186 points by Cbasedlifeform 10y ago

I used to have an Amex card because of Costco's exclusivity deal with them. I only used it to shop at Costco because many other places didn't accept Amex and my daily driver card has better benefits. I didn't feel like applying for another credit card when the Costco deal ended, so it just ended up being turned into a Citi Visa that I pretty much never use.

coredog64 10y ago
I think you can still use something of a hack to shop at Costco and rack up AmEx rewards. You can purchase gift cards online with pretty much any credit card and then use the gift cards in the warehouse. A co-worker did that with his rewards Visa for a long time when AmEx was the only credit card accepted in Costco warehouses.
joeyo 10y ago
The Costco Citi Visa gives pretty solid cash back percentages [1]. What do you use that's better? 1. https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/credit-card-details/citi.action?ID=Citi-costco-anywhere-visa-credit-card https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/credit-card-details/citi.a...

function_seven 10y ago

It's always a bit disconcerting to find out that a decision I thought I made independently is actually part of some larger overall trend. This happens a lot to me. For a decade before last year, I used an Amex card exclusively. Then I switched to a Sapphire card for the great signing bonus and better rewards. (It's also metal, and as much as I'd like to pretend that doesn't sway me, it does.) Now I find out that this is a "thing" and that I'm just another part of the overall trend. Oh well. If Amex successfully counters this move, I'll happily return. Their customer service has been spectacular the few times I needed them.

ubernostrum 10y ago
I generally keep at least one miles/points-earning card around, because every place I've lived for the past half-decade has allowed me to pay my rent with a credit card (I'm going to spend that money anyway, why not put it on the card and pay it off the next day so I get something out of it?). None of the places I've lived have accepted American Express, so all branded/points-earning Amex cards are basically useless to me.
- kylehotchkiss 10y ago
  Oh I wish I could do that too but the $45 credit card fee for $20 in points doesn't ever make sense for me
  - ubernostrum 10y ago
    I used to live in a place where my rent -- for a nice apartment -- was about $1k/month. That's 12,000 points a year from putting rent on the card, and there are airlines where that's right around the lower bound of redeeming a flight. If your rent is higher than that, of course, it becomes a better deal.
    - seanp2k2 9y ago
      The way this all works is the merchant pays a fee to process you CC and the bank splits that fee with you. Gas stations are somewhat smart about this in that they charge you more when using a card since they're paying more for the transaction. However, it's annoying to consumers to charge a higher price depending on payment method. Not sure why gas stations are the only ones getting away with it.
  - seanp2k2 9y ago
    Strange, every apartment I've lived in required checks or ACH. One missed payment and they require a cashier's check for that month + the next month. They also required a cashiers check for the deposit.
- 10y ago

dawnerd 10y ago

I've been finding Fewer and fewer places that accept Amex. Sometimes when you hand over an Amex they'll give you a look since you're costing them money. If hey really want to compete they need to lower their merchant rates.

function_seven 10y ago
That's kind of a dilemma for them, though. They have been very successful up until now by distinguishing themselves from all the other cards with extra perks and a premium level of service. To pay for those perks and that service, they charge more on the merchant end, with an implied value that their members spend more and are worth courting. Now that this trend is shifting, merchants aren't seeing the value in accepting an expensive Amex card, and are deciding to go without. But Amex still needs something to separate them from the rest of the pack, lest they become just another commodity card. Once that happens (and the merchant network is slow to adapt), users may just switch to the Visa or MasterCard they're already carrying and forget about Amex altogether.
DiabloD3 10y ago
I don't know anyone I do regular business with that doesn't accept all four.
- ajdlinux 9y ago
  Here in Australia it's probably 50/50 that any given merchant will accept Amex or Diners, and of those that do, surcharging up to around 3% (though I've seen up to 7% before!) for Amex is quite common, particularly at small businesses.
smackfu 9y ago
OTOH, I think small businesses using Square has actually made it a lot less of a problem. The business just takes everything without having to make a decision about it.

patejam 10y ago

>“I don’t think it would be American Express,” one diner said. “I feel like that would be braggy, like I’m trying to prove I’m a big shot.” >Others nodded in agreement. “I’d probably use this,” said another, pulling out a blue-tinged credit card. “An Amex says you’re rich, but this says you’re interesting.” Where did they find these people? When did using the CSR become a statement? Everyone I know got it for the free money, and uses whatever card gets the most points for whatever purchase.

in_cahoots 10y ago
I think the real test will be how many people pay the renewal fee. You can get 2% cards for cheaper/free so in all but the most frequent travelers keeping it for a second year is more about the status symbol than the benefits.
- arcticbull 10y ago
  Freedom Unlimited + Reserve nets 2.25% cash back on everything and 4.5% on travel and dining, and the annual fee nets out to $150 once you take the travel credit into account. Used properly, it's probably the most rewarding card/combo out there.
  - xapata 10y ago
    I've been using Fidelity's 2% back AmEx since forever. I was happy when they changed it to Visa and kept the same rate. But for that extra .25% I might have to switch. Edit: reading more, it looks like that rate is only for purchasing travel through their site. Not worth it.
    - arcticbull 10y ago
      It is, yes, only when used for travel via their portal. Totally possible it's not worth it for you, but I certainly get by :) Being able to redeem as 2.25% cash if I want or 1.5X as airline miles is a ton of flexibility. Means if I want to fly Korean First to Asia, its 80K miles one-way. If I find a cheap flight, it's often better to redeem as cash. I fly a lot though. The usual cash-back card I point people to is the Citi Double Cash 2% flat with no annual fee -- didn't realize the Fidelity went Visa!

empath75 10y ago

The new Amex cash card is pretty solid with 6% back on groceries and 3% back on gas and department stores (and 10% on restaurants for 6 months), but those aren't exactly prestige categories. I use that for everyday spending and the sapphire card for travel.

huangc10 10y ago
Interesting. What card is this? Can you provide a link? Is there an yearly fee for this card?
- eam 10y ago
  It's the Amex Blue Cash Preferred card.
- forbiddenlake 10y ago
  Yes. There's a fee. The non-fee version is only 3% at restaurants.
skannamalai 10y ago
I've been rocking the same combo (Amex Blue Cash Preferred + Chase Sapphire Reserve) for a while now and I still marvel at how they compliment one another for max rewards across Groceries/Gas + Travel/Dining. The only category I have left would be Amazon really but I still buy 500 dollar Amazon gift cards at supermarkets rather get the Amazon store card to get total rewards coverage for my needs.

alxmdev 10y ago

> “Or, more precisely, snobbery has to be hidden and camouflaged as something else” Yes, just like this advertisement seems to have been hidden and camouflaged as a New York Times article...

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

SanFranManDan 10y ago

This article doesn't say anything about using your card abroad or how widely accepted Amex is. I have an Amex and use it for all my subscriptions, and spending when I'm in the US. In the rare chance that I can't use Amex, I have capital one venture. When I use Amex, almost universally people comment that my card looks cool and take it and play with it. But whenever I recommend Amex to someone, it is always met with "but I won't be able to use it everywhere", generally they are talking about the US, but the same sentiment applies abroad also. Its true, when I am outside the US, I can't use Amex, I have to use my Venture card. How much of the drop can be attributed to the fact that now say in a country like Brazil, even people selling packs of gum from mobile tables accept MC and Visa? How many more millennials travel abroad? How many want to use the same card in whatever country the find themselves in and not have to worry?

ubernostrum 10y ago
Barclays is quietly working that segment of the market. They are (or were last I checked) the only issuer providing cards to people in the US which actually support chip and PIN (instead of only doing chip and signature).
- throwaway91111 10y ago
  When will they just ping my phone to confirm the purchase? Are they stuck in the sixties?
  - Veratyr 10y ago
    I don't want my CC company pinging my phone, a PIN is much more convenient: PIN: Insert card, 1234, enter. Phone: Insert card, wait for notification, unlock phone, select notification, confirm purchase, wait for confirmation to get back. Plus, if you're somewhere without cell reception or your phone battery is dead, what do you do?
- graton 10y ago
  First Tech Federal Credit Union also issues chip & PIN cards. I think all of their cards are chip & PIN https://www.firsttechfed.com/credit_cards/choice_rewards https://www.firsttechfed.com/credit_cards/choice_rewards

sddfd 10y ago

The conclusion is not reasonable: what has competition in the credit card business to do with the end of the latest recession?

hunterwerlla 10y ago

This is relevant to a decision I made today. I was deciding which travel card to get between the amex platinum and the chase sapphire reserve, and I went with the sapphire reserve. I felt the amex's perks were catered more towards business travelers doing expensive things, while the chase card was more focused on people who travel for fun. However, I do not understand why people think the sapphire reserve is not a snobbish card like amex: it has a $450 a year fee, which is almost as much as the amex platinum's $550 fee, is ~metal~, and is trying to capture the same group of people.

huangc10 10y ago
$450 yearly fee with $300 travel credit. This includes Uber/Lyft and public transportation. It's basically $150/yr, unless you don't use any of the $300 travel credit.
- hunterwerlla 10y ago
  True, but you can't say that it doesn't have a $450 fee, the amex has $200 for travel expenses and $200 for uber but that doesn't mean it has a $150 fee either. The fee is a large upfront cost for most people.
- praneshp 10y ago
  As an economy traveller, I didn't realize how much international trips were if I used a lounge for hops. The CSR comes with free access to a large number of airport lounges, which was a benefit I was surprised I used.
  - arcticbull 10y ago
    Amex lounge benefits are now the same as Chase, both offer a Priority Pass Select, and now AFAIK offer the same number of guests. Amex also offers access to Amex Centurion lounges which are among the better domestic lounges.
    - saryant 10y ago

davidu 10y ago

This article focuses on the emotional attachment to a card, but that's not the driver. It just comes out that way. I spend a lot of time on FlyerTalk where the decline of Amex has been discussed over and over. There were mistakes made on the revenue side, and on the rewards side. Three events basically tilted the entire balance away from Amex: 1. Failed negotiation with CostCo and losing the CostCo credit business. 2. The United and Continental merger that signed the death of the United / Amex relationship as all of that credit business moved to Chase and United was removed as a redemption partner, which was the number one membership rewards partner by a long-shot. 3. The loss of JetBlue as a partner that demotivated Amex in the affluent NYC credit theatre. There were many other mistakes made, but those three had a compounding effect on Amex's negotiating leverage to earn transactions, carry cards, and to offer valuable rewards that drive member sentiment. That's it. Three moves, each on their own survivable, but in concert essentially destroyed a well-balanced equation. The question is, how will they catapult out of this?

function_seven 10y ago
> The question is, how will they catapult out of this? They could sign a deal with Amazon to provide a Prime card that gives the cardholder $0 Amazon Prime when they use the card. EDIT: I'm not suggesting that this is the ONLY benefit, just something comparable to the previous Costco arrangement they had.
- seattle_spring 10y ago
  $80 / year is a terrible credit card reward compared to almost all other credit cards. It would have to be free Amazon Prime + 5% back on all Amazon purchases + $500 sign up bonus.
  - function_seven 10y ago
    True, but I was searching for something comparable to the Costco deal they used to have. That perk was also pretty cheap (Isn't Costco membership in the same ballpark?) But yeah, throw some extra points/cash back in there as well. I'd go for that in a heartbeat, and so would a lot of the demographic they're currently losing.

skylark 10y ago

Chase's marketing team hit it out of the park with the Sapphire Preferred (and now Reserve.) This is going to sound stupid, but the Preferred/Reserve lines are fun to use. They have a metal core which makes the card feel heavy. Cashiers would always comment on the card's weight. It feels satisfying when you drop it on the table at a restaurant. The perks aren't the best in the industry, but they're good enough, and the incredible amount of points you got when you switched over lowered the barrier to entry enough to make the move. Without a doubt it's the "coolest" card in my wallet, and probably will be until I get an Amex Black (yeah, right.)

_raoulcousins 10y ago
I have the reserve, and was disappointed that the latest Chase Amazon Visa is also metal. If too many cards are metal, it becomes less special. The heft of the metal makes me want to spend more, but not if every card has the same heft!
- tbyehl 9y ago
  When did that happen? I just got a replacement Chase Amazon Visa Signature a couple months ago -- it's not embossed, but it ain't metal.
dnr 10y ago
I really dislike the metal in the card. I feel pretentious every time I use it. I still use it, of course, for the points.
cthalupa 10y ago
The Amex platinum is metal now as well. Actually just ordered my replacement.
venomsnake 10y ago
Look at that subtle off-white coloring. The tasteful thickness of it. Oh my God, it even has a watermark.
throwaway91111 10y ago

huangc10 10y ago

This is just me: I use whatever card I get the most points/benefits from for whatever scenario (travel, food, gas, groceries etc.). I couldn't care less what people think of me when I pull out my card. It just so happens Chase has been pushing out cards that benefits my lifestyle the most. *edit grammr

nols 10y ago
You couldn't care less

mattpratt 10y ago

I'm interested to watch retention through the first year for this card. The most attractive aspect for myself and many was the sign on bonus which was recently halved (https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/chase-sapphire-reserve-cutting-sign-up-bonus/ https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/chase-sapphire-...).

velodrome 10y ago
Many are looking to churn (cash in and leave)...The rest are doing it for utility and/or status. Read the SlickDeals thread: https://slickdeals.net/f/9036199-chase-sapphire-reserve-100k-ultimate-reward-points-w-4k-spend-in-3-months-1650-in-1st-year-benefits-expires-1-12-2017 https://slickdeals.net/f/9036199-chase-sapphire-reserve-100k...

user5994461 10y ago

What's the point of an Amex or Sapphire compared to a regular VISA or mastercard? Disclaimer: I am european, Amex doesn't exist here and you can't pay anything anywhere with that. Never heard about Sapphire before today. Maybe you guys don't have VISA and mastercard on your side of the Atlantic?

brianwawok 10y ago
Visa and MC are probably 75% of all cards in the US. Anyone takes them. Discover and Amex are less giant.
stock_toaster 10y ago
Amex vs Visa/MC - Amex had historically good flight/miles tie-ins (not as good these days), purchase coverage (returns, car insurance, etc), and concierge service for higher level cards. Odd as it sounds, good reporting on billing, and a requirement to pay off at the end of each month, made it appealing to some businesses for corporate credit cards. Yes, we have both Visa and MC over here.
saryant 10y ago
The Sapphire Reserve is a Visa credit card issued by Chase. It's not a new card network.
- user5994461 10y ago
  What's the difference then?
  - saryant 10y ago
    Perks. More points, lounge access, concierge programs, insurance.
  - function_seven 10y ago
    Think of Amex like the iPhone/iOS. Only Apple makes it, they deliver the hardware and the software. Visa/MC are Android. Samsung (Chase), LG (Citi), HTC (BofA) are the hardware makers (card issuers) but they're all delivering the same Android (Visa/MC) I don't have an analogy for Discover...

danso 10y ago

I hadn't heard about the Sapphire card until a few weeks ago when I read this WSJ story, "If You Have 29 Credit Cards, You’re Probably a Millennial" http://archive.is/XEYJY http://archive.is/XEYJY It details the efforts of someone who managed to get a Sapphire Reserve card after dressing up as a Sapphire Reserve card for Halloween and sending a photo of it to Chase: > “I’m kind of a credit-card—maybe junkie is not the right word—but I’m a credit-card enthusiast,” says Mary Xu, a San Francisco cybersecurity manager. In pursuit of points, she spends more than $1,000 a year on annual fees for high-end cards. > She was so disappointed to be rejected for the Sapphire Reserve last October that she spent hours constructing a costume of the card out of cardboard. She sent the bank a photo of herself dressed up, hoping for a second chance. She was approved about three months later.

swang 10y ago

That reminds me, I need to cancel my AMEX...

dade_ 10y ago

I don't think smart wealthy people pay a dime in service fees. I gave the privilege of collecting transaction fees on my purchases to HSBC, who charges me nothing. It has all the usual premium card perks, though not the latest silly ones. I'll buy my own Uber credits.

saryant 10y ago
I suppose it depends on your definition of "silly" but perks like Amex's Centurion lounges, their concierge program, hotel privileges and (of course) points all outweigh the annual fee for me.
revelation 10y ago
Smart people wouldn't pay the equivalent of a 2% sales tax to a private corporation in exchange for gimmicks. The best part is that they realized you can keep the people from finding out that they are being royally ripped off by giving every single 30 card toting person the special feeling that they are the one getting back more than they put in.
- rrdharan 10y ago
  For your logic to make sense businesses would have to charge 2% less for using cash. Very few do so.
  - hectormalot 9y ago
    If i recall correctly, this was more common but was lobbied against by the CC companies (and might not be allowed anymore in certain states?)
    - jameskegel 9y ago
      You recall wrong; cash discounts are fine
- MrRadar 9y ago
  Cash itself isn't cost-free for businesses. There's the extra time it takes to count change for customers, the mistakes cashiers make when counting change, there's the time it takes to count the register at the end of a shift, the cost of a safe to hold cash on-site, the risk of counterfeit bills (when I cashiered we'd check $50s and $100s but not $20s and lower since it would take too long), and the cost of transporting the cash to the bank (either in the cost of an armored car or the risk of getting robbed on the way to the bank (which happened at another location while I was cashiering, after that they switched to an armored car)).

smaili 10y ago

While by no means is this an apples to apples comparison, but for me this debate has always felt like PC/Mac vs Unix/Linux computers. Yes, the latter may seem/feel cooler, but there is far more support with the former platforms and to me that's always been the motivating factor.

code4tee 10y ago

The AmEx lounges are much nicer than the airline lounges... only bad thing is that there aren't more of them

saryant 10y ago
If the rumor about an Amex lounge in Denver is true I'll drop Chase in a heartbeat.

arcticbull 10y ago

Over the last 5-ish years they: (1) Lost US Airways lounge access from the Amex platinum (merger). (2) Lost Continental as a transfer partner for MR (merger). (3) Lost Continental lounge access from the Amex platinum (merger). (4) Lost Delta lounge guest access. (5) Saw serious devaluations in Aeroplan for MR. (6) Saw serious devaluations in Delta for MR (no more 50% transfer bonuses). (7) Saw serious devaluations in BA for MR (transfer 1:1 with 50% bonuses to 1:0.8 with occasional bonuses). (8) No more points lending (you used to be able to transfer more than you had if you earned them back within a year, otherwise they'd bill you). (9) Lost JetBlue co-brand card. (10) Lost Costco co-brand card. (11) Saw Plenti flop, and I haven't really heard much of Bluebird. A few years ago, you needed 120,000 Amex points for a first-class round-the-world flight with no fuel surcharges and 2 stopovers in addition to your destination. That price has pretty much doubled in points and gone up 100x in cash. It's just not as rewarding as it used to be. On the other hand, Chase jumped in, offered lower-fee cards ($95 for Preferred vs $175 for Amex PRG) with more valuable transfer partners -- especially before the United devaluation -- and large signup bonuses. They were friendlier, less stodgy and offered a better value proposition overall in 2011 with the Sapphire Preferred. Then they upped the stakes with the Reserve. Amex should be worried.

doug1001 10y ago
nice one--i wasn't aware of most of these. also, i remember amex had exclusive deals with a few ultra high end retailers, Nieman Marcus, for one, and those are out--eg, so up until about 10 years ago, that was the only credit card accepted at NM.
throwaway91111 10y ago
If you don't fly, what distinguishes the two?
- arcticbull 10y ago
  Fair question, actually. They're rather similar, but if you're not flying neither is probably right. If you want a daily driver and no interest in travel rewards, check out the Citi Double Cash. 2% flat cash back on everything, no annual fee, but watch the forex fees -- not that you'll pay them often if you don't fly :)

inmygarage 10y ago

Amex flooded their signed-in experience with awful pop-ups: upgrade your card! get a personal loan! It's distracting when, as a user, I'm simply trying to see how much I need to pay. I switched to Chase.

jlgaddis 9y ago
Mine (Amex PLT) is set up to simply auto-pay the full amount a few days before the due date. I haven't logged in to their web site in months.

ams6110 10y ago

I use AMEX because their anti-fraud and customer service is the best I've ever experienced. I refuse to use Chase anything because of how poorly they treat their lower income customers (staging transactions to maximize overdraft fees, etc.) When I'm someplace that won't take AMEX, I use Discover. If they won't take Discover I use my credit union Visa.

protomyth 10y ago
> I refuse to use Chase anything because of how poorly they treat their lower income customers (staging transactions to maximize overdraft fees, etc.) Yep, a true pain to explain to someone how pulling that stunt is legal. About the same fun as banks cashing checks in order to maximize overdraft fees. AMEX also does the Bluebird cards which are pretty nice for poor folks since you can do direct deposit to the card itself and it has no charge refilling at Walmart.

softbuilder 10y ago

I don't know what the perception is today, but Amex used to be known for outstanding (like, truly outstanding) customer service. I had a regular Amex and then a gold in the mid 2000s and I found that was no longer the case. They also used to stand apart from other credit cards, much more like old-school bankers used to be. When I was using them they started to act more and more like regular credit card companies. There was also an ownership change at some point iirc. I think they just lost their way, and along with it their differentiating value.

cthalupa 10y ago
I've had nothing but outstanding experiences with American Express customer service, even in the past few years. Miles ahead of what I've experienced with Chase and other issuers.
- softbuilder 10y ago
  I don't doubt it. They always treated me well on the phone, but when I needed them to actually fix a problem they fell on their face and thew up their hands like they were powerless. I ended up having to solve it myself which blew the whole point of using them. I may be an outlier.
rdl 9y ago
Amex CS has gotten a lot weaker in the past few years; it got moved overseas. Closing the actual physical Amex offices also was a big step down (I've been a member since 97). I would not want to bet on Amex at this point -- losing Costco, competition from Chase, and now Citi pushing to expand their own cards. I'm surprised there hasn't been a lower-merchant-fees challenger now that everyone has a mobile phone; you could probably do something which presents at POSes as a credit card, handles a bunch of auth back through the customer's own mobile phone connection (but encrypted/authenticated), presenting a time of use credential which is matched by the POS while appearing as a regular credit card. Building something like that which costs the merchant <1%, and maybe which provides customers with a lot more purchasing/receipt info (for company purchasing cards).

mstade 10y ago

Amex has two great perks that justifies the cost for me: - Excellent travel insurance - 15-20% discount on car rentals with Hertz and Avis, priority service including complimentary upgrades, and no extra fees for super cover Additionally their fraud detection and customer service is great. If my card is stolen or there are unauthorized transactions, they'll sort it out immediately and get Anne's card in your hands within the day. As a European who travels a lot in Europe and across the Atlantic, there's no other card that offers the same. Then there's all the rest, VIP access, airport lounges, concierge service etc. Those are nice extras. I pay everything on my Amex. Some smaller shops don't take Amex, but most places I've been seem to accept it. The few times I have to fall back to a Visa or MC I struggle to recall the pin.

perseusprime11 10y ago
What about the scummy car rental insurance? Does Amex cover that?
- ben1040 10y ago
  If you decline the car rental company's insurance and charge the rental fee to your Amex, then Amex has a free car rental insurance plan. It's essentially secondary to any other coverage you carry, so if you wreck a rental car and already carry collision insurance, then it hits your coverage first and the Amex plan just pays your deductible. They've also got an opt-in plan where any time you rent a car with your card they charge you a $25 flat free, and then that buys you coverage that runs primary so you don't have to claim against your own car insurance at all.
  - rallison 10y ago
    This was actually one of the reasons I ended up getting the Reserve card - it includes primary car rental insurance for no extra fee.
- mstade 9y ago
  Yes, this is what I meant by super cover. Essentially you just rent without any additional coverage and Amex will cover anything not covered by the rental agency's insurance. This saves a good $20/day at least, meaning if you rent cars for just a few weeks per year the fee will be worth it, when considering the discount as well. I've racked up about 7-8 weeks of car rental so far since New Years, and thanks to Amex I saved a bunch of money on it, probably more than the fee. Another good feature is I've sometimes had to return the cars in different cities, and every time they waived the fee because of the preferred status as a card carrying member. These things add up for sure. As far as I know, the insurance also works with any agency, so not just Avis and Hertz, so there's money to save even if you go for a more "fun" agency like Sixt, with nicer cars. Disclaimer: You'll want to verify all this with Amex though, but this is what I've been told and what I've read in the ToS.

tristor 10y ago

I've got both cards and have traveled all over the world with them. I'm not giving up my Amex ever. They've saved my ass in big and small ways so many times and I just don't trust Chase to do the same. I do love the way the CSR looks and feels though, and it's essential to have a Visa or MasterCard when traveling as so many places only accept those two. Chase is doing great, I will keep both for the foreseeable future. It's going to take time to completely steal me from Amex though, they've been doing right by me for more than 10 years.

deleted 10y ago
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wsc981 10y ago
In Thailand I can't seem to use my Amex card to get money from ATM's, but my MasterCard works fine.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- brookside 9y ago
  Isn't it generally best get get money from an ATM using a debit card? (Money withdrawal being charged as an immediate cash advance with a high interest rate)
hkmurakami 10y ago
This reminds me of my friends who met an elderly retired couple on a cruise. They were Amex black card holders, and said that the biggest reason they carried it was that if something happened to them medically (the husband was a retired physician to boot), Amex would come through and get them to the best hospital in whatever part of the world they'd be in. That kind of support and service can be a huge difference maker to people who have experienced or can perceive such niche cases.
- jeffwilcox 9y ago
  Super interesting, sure, but the Centurion card ("black card") is much more elite - minimum spend, $7,500 just to get the card, etc. Great offering from Amex but a different league than the middle class cards like Chase Sapphire, Amex Platinum, etc.

iambateman 10y ago

I have a run of the mill Amex and definitely just use it for the perks. If my Visa card offered 6% on groceries I would use that too...

rkho 10y ago

I have both the Amex Platinum and Chase Sapphire Reserve. If I could only justify one annual fee, I'd keep the Platinum. The Centurion Lounges are second to none in the US and Amex's end-to-end ownership of its purchase/return/travel protection benefits is too good to give up. I recently attempted to file a return protection claim with my Sapphire Reserve for a display cable that turned out to be faulty. I tried the Visa Infinite site, but Visa as an organization doesn't recognize the United States as a Visa Infinite country yet so I couldn't find anything relevant there. Then I recalled eclaimsline, which was the site I used a while ago when I had the Sapphire Preferred. It asked for my first/last name and credit card number, and then did not show me the option to file a 'return protection' claim -- just purchase and travel protection. After that, I went on Chase's website and dug through their documentation and eventually found cardbenefitservices.com, where I was prompted to create a new account and then verify my card number again. Upon filing a claim, I was asked to upload my purchase receipt and credit card statement proving the charge had hit my account. I waited one week and received an email in my spam folder that asked me to mail the item at my own expense to Visa before my claim could finish processing -- mind you, this is for a $20 display cable. My experience with Amex would have been a three-step online form containing a very small number of fields followed by an immediate credit within 48 hours.

throwaway91111 10y ago
What is a centurion lounge? You cant just drop that shit without explaining. Is it like a university club; like a place where members chill, drink, and play tennis? EDIT: it's just a room at an airport.
- cycrutchfield 10y ago
  It's an airport lounge with free hot meals and alcoholic beverages. But yeah, it's also a room.
  - xyzzy_plugh 10y ago
    And massages and showers and fast wi-fi

gaoshan 10y ago

I use Amex (Blue Cash Preferred) because I get more cash back. I don't fly often so getting actual cash for the sorts of everyday purchases that dominate my usual spending works well for me. Amex has the best deals for that. The thought that people will choose a card for its signaling to others or, even more ridiculous, for its "feel" and/or look just makes me think people need to step back and reassess how they live.

DiabloD3 10y ago
I'd also like to drop in and say my Blue Cash Preferred is my favorite card out of all of the ones I've collected over the years. That 6% grocery cash back, ungh, so good.

morgante 10y ago

This article seems delusional, either on the part of Amex or the reporter. Chase isn't winning because Amex is too snobby or due to "cachet." They're winning because the Platinum rewards are inferior to the CSR, even after the recent updates. In fact, Amex did probably the stupidest thing possible by increasing the annual fee precisely when they're under threat. As much as I like the Platinum, it's hard for me to justify keeping it this year when the CSR is so rewarding. And that has nothing to do with wanting to avoid appearing snobby (after all, I do love the metal CSR).

fooey 10y ago

I must be poor. I had zero clue at all that having an Amex was prestigious in any way.

pinum 10y ago
This. I knew about the Centurion, but I considered their normal cards to be on the same standing as any other. I have their free Everyday card, because they're pretty much the only issues in the UK who still offer cashback.
- phil21 9y ago
  And you are correct. Only the Centurion has any social signaling power (real, at least). Any other Amex? It's just a credit card, who gives a shit.
  - rdl 9y ago
    Amex Corp Card with the name of a well-known and respected company still has some social signaling power, I think. (Like if the card said SpaceX under the user's name)

Finbarr 10y ago

There's a good discussion about this on the churning subreddit[1]. One of my hobbies has been maximizing rewards over the last few years. I've had the Amex Gold, but Platinum rewards have never looked good enough to justify it for me. I'll keep the CSR until something better comes along, but it's easily the best card I've had. Part of Amex's problem is the ease of access to information about which cards are actually good. They can't rely on image anymore. I don't buy into the article's argument about the CSR making the purchaser "interesting" at all. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/65e347/amex_challenged_by_chase_is_losing_the_snob_war/ https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/65e347/amex_chall...

clubm8 10y ago
Ironically one fringe benefit about having a CSR is people often mistake the blue metal Chase for a black metal Amex :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_Card https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_Card

jpatokal 10y ago

I use Amex whenever I can because it gets me the most frequent flyer points, which in turn is because it has the highest merchant fees. I also use Android Pay, which means nobody can even see what card I use...

rak00n 9y ago
I wish more restaurants would accept Android pay. Right now I only use it in Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and sometimes in some random gas station which comes as a surprise.

throwaway91111 10y ago

How is this not a commodity market yet?

xopovue 10y ago

Wow

xopovue 10y ago

Wow

cobookman 9y ago

Amex travel sight also gives great discounts btw. I once got a fairmont hotel room for the price of a mariotte. And it came with an upgraded room, free breakfast each day, and $100 to spend while at the hotel.

scurvy 9y ago

The Amex Platinum paid out over $2k in benefits on my honeymoon alone (2 free nights at a Four Seasons, upgraded rooms, free breakfast for 2 every day, and a resort credit) through the Fine Hotels and Resorts program. I don't always travel like that, but I did then and the yearly fee was more than worth it.

rdl 9y ago

I have both, and end up putting 60% of my spend on SPG Amex (Starwood hotels for sure, and then anything generic), 10% (Amazon) on the Amazon Chase Prime Visa (5% back...), 20% (dining and other bonus categories, merchants that don't take amex) on the Chase Sapphire Reserve, and VX on the VX credit card, IHG on IHG card, UA on UA card, etc. Amex Platinum (MR) has pretty bad values for point redemption -- it's a good card to have for access to lounges and for certain airline tickets, but it's generally not the best return for most purchases. If you're eligible, there's a 2.5% back USAA credit card which is probably the cash-back winner, otherwise SPG seems to win for value, but I've seen some 5-7% return cases for the CSR too (Asian mileage tickets in C or F). There's also the fact that personal Amex PLT is $550/yr (now), with ~$200/yr in Uber reimbursements spread out over the year and a few other things. The biggest benefit of PLT is the Centurion Lounge, which for US domestic travel is nice if you're in those airports, but for international it's Priority Pass Select on both CSR and PLT. CSR is $450/yr with $300/yr in credit for virtually any travel, so it's net $150/yr. PP Select is worth that alone, and a bunch of other benefits. I'd drop Amex Platinum if I wanted to drop a card (and I actually just have the OPEN Small Business version; I don't have a personal PLT).

arjie 9y ago

LOL. Classic. You guys spend all your spare time talking about ad blocking and then what's left is spent on posting blatant advertisements to each other. Hilarious. The only thing missing from this is the 'press release' tag.

niuzeta 9y ago

I spent five minutes reading the article, another several minutes to contemplate if I've been pranked by the "new york times", then spent another minute feeling... lost. The auspicious "New York Times", to me, would have a standard to present more inquisitive spins into story like this. What a shame. I was waiting for the punchline then realized at the end that the punch was thrown, just never registered. To summarize this article, it starts off with a claim that Amex executives are worried that Chase is taking more "young professionals". Then the article discusses why that happens in this paragraph: > A credit card, mystifyingly, had suddenly become cool. And what really got under Amex executives’ skin was that Chase was succeeding by, essentially, copying the American Express playbook and chasing the same up-and-coming elites who had traditionally joined Amex’s ranks. "mystifyingly" being the key word here. There is no investigation, no speculation, no data gathering, no journalism. There is a claim that a Chase card "seems to be gaining preference" in the young professionals crowd. Why is this a thing? Why is Chase being preferred over Amex? Is Chase even actually being preferred over Amex? Is there a poll, at least? The only paragraph that attempts to answer any of the questions is this disjointed one in the middle of rambles: > “The message we send is, this isn’t your father’s credit card,” said Pam Codispoti, who created the Chase Sapphire Reserve after 18 years at Amex. “For millennials, travel might mean taking an Uber to a hole-in-the-wall restaurant in Chinatown, and then riding the subway to karaoke, and then catching a taxi home. So we’re going to give you accelerated travel points on all that. This is a card for accumulating experiences.” Other than that, there's no presentation of facts, but a rambling of speculations and hearsay. I feel as if I've been served an advertisement for Chase on thin veil. Do I have to start vetting articles from the "New York Times" for quality too? How disappointing.

massysett 9y ago
You should absolutely vet NYT articles for quality. I canceled my subscription to NYT because they are not putting out journalism worth paying $35 a month for.
- dopamean 9y ago
  You were paying $35/mo for The Times?

myrandomcomment 9y ago

Amex Platinum for the win. Customer service is the best and they make things simple. Have an issue, just give them a call. Don't want to call, website is simple to use. A few years ago my wife and I were in LAX heading to Dublin via London. My wife left her card at home. Oops. Gave them a call. "I see your hotel reservation in Dublin here. A new card will be waiting for you when you arrive." It took all of 4 minutes. 11 hours later show up to the hotel and there is an envelope with a new card for my wife.

cs702 9y ago

More than two decades ago, I lost my Amex card (or perhaps it was stolen) in Chiang Mai, Thailand. I dialed the call-collect phone number on the back of a traveling companion's card, and explained everything to an Amex representative. The next day they had a replacement card waiting for me at the hotel lobby. I still don't know how they pulled it off. In that instant, I became a lifetime customer. AFAIK, no other credit card firm offers the same level and quality of service.

branchless 9y ago
No other credit card charges vendors anywhere near as much per transaction. My wife worked for a flight booking company in the UK. They absorbed the charge for all credit cards except Amex, who were far higher. In that moment I swore never to sign up to Amex.
NelsonMinar 9y ago
Chase should be able to do that kind of card replacement too. Me, I cancelled my AmEx the second time they flagged my card-present $30 grocery store transaction as fraud. There was no other hint of fraud on the account, but my buying groceries 100 miles from my home (in California) was enough to trip their algorithm. I could forgive the false positive, but AmEx's customer experience here is terrible. They declined the transaction and then called my call phone from an unrecognized caller ID. The call came from an Indian call center with very poorly trained staff reading a script at me to verify I had the card. So here I am in a stressful situation: can't buy my groceries, embarrassed my card is declined. And they decide that's the time to outsource to some lowest-bidder call center. Talk about contempt for the customer.
- ghaff 9y ago
  Fraud declines can be really random. I put a lot of travel on my cards and in the last couple of years I had a decline at a grocery store while traveling and a decline at a gas station convenience store. Fortunately, someone else was with me for one of those and the amount was piddling with the second. I now always carry a spare card from a different bank although I'm not certain I wouldn't have issues if I suddenly started putting big charges on a card I rarely use.

tiatia 9y ago

Well, what makes the cards so great? Seriously? * Collect miles? I prefer the Cash back I have with my CC. * Zero foreign transaction fees is a nice feature. * Create virtual credit cards is a good feature. * Travel insurance? Have a better one that any CC could offer me, including air evacuation. Don't need that with my CC and also would be worried about the fine print. * Lounge Access? If you are a frequent flyer you should have Elite or whatever status anyway, hence I don't need this either. If you really need a card with "lounge access", Diners Club is still available in some European countries for less than US$ 100 per year. (Dines Club Lunge access included) If I miss something with my CC then it is bicoin access: https://bitpay.com/visa/ https://bitpay.com/visa/ If you need a "prestigious" card, try here: http://creditcardforum.com/blog/most-prestigious-credit-cards/ http://creditcardforum.com/blog/most-prestigious-credit-card... AH, Just saw. 100 bucks for, at least previously, 100k miles is not so bad. Most "prestigious" cards I know have fees from 400-1000 USD "Introductory Annual Fee of $0 the first year, then $95."

mark_l_watson 9y ago

In the past I have always just used my bank's VISA or Martercard offerings. Last year I joined American Express and I am very happy with the service, not having my card put on hold on long trips, and the web app. I must admit that this article made me want to also try the Chase Sapphire Reserve but for now I probably won't.