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It's worth nothing that the admins did actively ban users trying to make swastikas. /b/ tried and found that out the hard way. Reddit's content policy[1] was st

It's worth nothing that the admins did actively ban users trying to make swastikas. /b/ tried and found that out the hard way. Reddit's content policy[1] was still applicable and was very much enforced. [1] https://www.reddit.com/help/contentpolicy/ https://www.reddit.com/help/contentpolicy/

dugditches 10y ago
Maybe it was even useful as bait, eliminating lots of accounts of those users from their userbase.
- stouset 10y ago
  If so, even better IMO.
  - lacampbell 10y ago
    Shame they didn't get rid of all the commies as well.
  - Coincoin 10y ago
    Yes! Let's prevent them from expressing themselves so they will never debate their ideas and never realize they might be wrong. Let's ostracize them until they have no choice but fester their frustration, hidden from the rest of world. Let's make those ideas illegal so that any of our parents, sibling and children, if they ever entertain them, will keep it their most sacred secret, protected from scrutiny. All that, in the name of some people not wanting to be offended.
    - therealdrag0 10y ago
      Sure worked well with Trump supporters right?
    - dwaltrip 10y ago
      Not being able to express your idea without intense backlash is a pretty strong signal you might be wrong. Of course, there are many exceptions to this in history.
      - Coincoin 10y ago
        I agree about the backlash, just not the mean. Banishment and censorship is 1) a very harsh punishment for what is basically wrong think, 2) doesn't actually fix the problem, it just moves it to a darker place.
    - wfo 10y ago
      Yes, the horrible life of the persecuted right wing racists. We MUST let them spew any racist garbage they wish at all times on any platform, otherwise they will throw a hissy fit and vote for Trump again. It's very important we let ourselves be held hostage to that idea. We need to constantly consider the feelings of the persecuted few outspoken racist conservatives. Can you imagine their plight and how bad they have it? They only control every branch of the united states government. Well, they don't control the judicial branch... yet.
monksy 10y ago
If it's anything it would be the moderators of r/Place. The admin's job is more of administration level (sitewide), and it's more of picking up where the mod privileges end. There are subs where swastikas are allowed.
- joshuamorton 10y ago
  The moderators of place are the admins, since it was an official reddit function ;)
  - monksy 10y ago
    Right, but theres a difference between a suspension/sidewide ban and a ban in a sub. One can be done by the admins while the other is done by the mods on a subreddit level.
- grkvlt 10y ago
  I wonder, are these subs blocked for users from e.g. Germany and Austria, where the swastika is still banned?
  - monksy 10y ago
    I would hope not. Bans on speech and expression don't work. Besides Reddit isn't based in Germany or France.
    - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
      Reddit is provided by the owners to people in Germany, say. You can't ship goods/services to Germany bearing swastikas, AIUI, under their law. If Reddit sell to Germany (eg Reddit Gold) then they likely broke the law. /IANAL
      - danielbln 10y ago
        The only sub that returns a 421 ("Unavailable For Legal Reasons") here in Germany is r/watchpeopledie, as can be seen in Reddit's latest transparency report.
baby 10y ago
When are we going to see this beautiful sign back in our culture as a positive symbol :( that and the Hitler mustache. I'm guessing we need a few hundred years before we can use these things without it being associated to Nazism.
- Buttons840 10y ago
  You need to explain yourself better. You seem to be opposed to Nazism, but in favor of their symbol. Why?
  - jstanley 10y ago
    Because it's a symbol that existed before they did. Why should they have the ability to wipe the symbol out of use just because they used it for bad things?
  - chipperyman573 10y ago
    The Nazis stole the symbol from a religion (I believe Hinduism, may be wrong).
    - revscat 10y ago
      Buddhism.
    - lacampbell 10y ago
      Variations of the swastika have been used in many cultures around the world, from the Far East to ancient Europe. The Nazis took it from the latter source, though it shows up in many Indian and East Asian religious contexts.
  - chaosphere2112 10y ago
    Presumably a reference to the long history of the symbol prior to its appropriation by the Nazis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
  - nkristoffersen 10y ago
Fizzer 10y ago
Where does your link say that swastikas are not allowed? Does a swastika "encourage or incite violence"? I'm curious since I don't ban swastikas on my site, although some of my users ask me to.
- darkstar999 10y ago
  It's more about reddit being able to sell ads than anything else. I'd say it falls under: > Threatens, harasses, or bullies or encourages others to do so
  - cyphar 10y ago
    While some users might feel that way, I'm not sure how an image (which is a collection of pixels on a screen that has many different historical interpretations) would threaten, harass or bully someone. Or incite it. Of course, these days ad networks are hyper-sensitive about this topic, so from an advertising perspective it does make sense.
    - spike021 10y ago
      I don't want to assume you lack a connection to swastikas used as they were during the Holocaust. For me personally, my grandfather and his family were persecuted along with other family members and friends. My grandfather was even beaten by Hitler Youth, among experiencing other horrible events (Kristallnacht in particular). I wish it weren't the case but the symbol is strongly associated with the feelings from this era of time. So yes, an image (which is a collection of pixels on a screen) does feel bullying to me. Maybe it's not active bullying where someone is specifically setting out to piss me off/scare me/whatever, but it's most certainly passive bullying because unfortunately there are people who still feel very strongly about it and its use in one of the most horrible eras of history.
      - cyphar 10y ago
        While I do empathise with you (my family wasn't under fascist rule, they were under communist rule), I disagree with your way of approaching the issue. In my mind, the best way of ridding ourselves of the mistakes of the past is to stop holding their symbolism as something that should be banned. It's the same with offensive words -- by keeping them as "things you should never say" you're effectively giving them power which goes against your wishes to eradicate the power they once had. Do you think that Hitler (or Stalin, Tito, Mao, Pot) would prefer that you made fun of them and lightheartedly used the symbolism they held dear or that you feared them after the deaths of their regimes? All of that being said, I completely understand why you would feel the way you do.
ocdtrekkie 10y ago
I wonder how they decided who was a willing participant. If I was a troll, I would try to create one with as many 'innocent' pixels as possible and get people banned for placing pixels they didn't know would become a swastika.
someguy101010 10y ago
I was surprised at the lack of swastikas, curse words, and nsfw content on the canvas, but that may say more about me than anything else.
- TheAdamAndChe 10y ago
  There was some NSFW stuff early on. There was a communist flag on the left side, under which was the statement "bash the fash." He-Man had a rainbow in his mouth like he was giving it a blowjob for the longest time, and all the nsfw stuff suddenly disappeared at the end. I highly suspect that moderators and bots took over by the end and made it come together, and I bet it was a PR move to amplify a sense of community.
  - rmccoy6435 10y ago
    Bots definitely did take over, and it's how communities left their images so preserved. A lot of subreddits had scripts they gave out to users to just run in the tab. I think this kind of ruined the joy of logging in after a few hours of being gone and seeing something completely different in an area.
  - NoGravitas 10y ago
    Not sure how a communist flag (stayed on till the end, by the way) or "bash the fash" is NSFW. Unless your workplace is fascist, of course.
    - TheAdamAndChe 10y ago
      There are many corporations who find any form of violence NSFW, especially among places with overly sensitive PC culture.
- najati83 10y ago
  Yes, me too. Admins were fine with a hammer and a sickle and an LGBT flag, though. We all have biases, after all. ;P
Ajedi32 10y ago
Interesting. Where there actually any real instances of the admins needing to step in like that? I saw some posts early on on the subreddit where a lot of people collectively resolved to erase swastikas on sight, so I just kinda assumed that was the reason why symbols like that never stayed up for long.
Angostura 10y ago
> It's worth nothing that the admins did actively ban users trying to make swastikas. I've heard it hypothesised, but I haven't seen any evidence. Swastikas did appear and disappear again, but what makes you think this was admin action?

dugditches 10y ago

Maybe it was even useful as bait, eliminating lots of accounts of those users from their userbase.

stouset 10y ago
If so, even better IMO.
- lacampbell 10y ago
  Shame they didn't get rid of all the commies as well.
- Coincoin 10y ago
  Yes! Let's prevent them from expressing themselves so they will never debate their ideas and never realize they might be wrong. Let's ostracize them until they have no choice but fester their frustration, hidden from the rest of world. Let's make those ideas illegal so that any of our parents, sibling and children, if they ever entertain them, will keep it their most sacred secret, protected from scrutiny. All that, in the name of some people not wanting to be offended.
  - therealdrag0 10y ago
    Sure worked well with Trump supporters right?
  - dwaltrip 10y ago
    Not being able to express your idea without intense backlash is a pretty strong signal you might be wrong. Of course, there are many exceptions to this in history.
    - Coincoin 10y ago
      I agree about the backlash, just not the mean. Banishment and censorship is 1) a very harsh punishment for what is basically wrong think, 2) doesn't actually fix the problem, it just moves it to a darker place.
  - wfo 10y ago
    Yes, the horrible life of the persecuted right wing racists. We MUST let them spew any racist garbage they wish at all times on any platform, otherwise they will throw a hissy fit and vote for Trump again. It's very important we let ourselves be held hostage to that idea. We need to constantly consider the feelings of the persecuted few outspoken racist conservatives. Can you imagine their plight and how bad they have it? They only control every branch of the united states government. Well, they don't control the judicial branch... yet.

monksy 10y ago

If it's anything it would be the moderators of r/Place. The admin's job is more of administration level (sitewide), and it's more of picking up where the mod privileges end. There are subs where swastikas are allowed.

joshuamorton 10y ago
The moderators of place are the admins, since it was an official reddit function ;)
- monksy 10y ago
  Right, but theres a difference between a suspension/sidewide ban and a ban in a sub. One can be done by the admins while the other is done by the mods on a subreddit level.
grkvlt 10y ago
I wonder, are these subs blocked for users from e.g. Germany and Austria, where the swastika is still banned?
- monksy 10y ago
  I would hope not. Bans on speech and expression don't work. Besides Reddit isn't based in Germany or France.
  - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
    Reddit is provided by the owners to people in Germany, say. You can't ship goods/services to Germany bearing swastikas, AIUI, under their law. If Reddit sell to Germany (eg Reddit Gold) then they likely broke the law. /IANAL
    - danielbln 10y ago
      The only sub that returns a 421 ("Unavailable For Legal Reasons") here in Germany is r/watchpeopledie, as can be seen in Reddit's latest transparency report.

baby 10y ago

When are we going to see this beautiful sign back in our culture as a positive symbol :( that and the Hitler mustache. I'm guessing we need a few hundred years before we can use these things without it being associated to Nazism.

Buttons840 10y ago
You need to explain yourself better. You seem to be opposed to Nazism, but in favor of their symbol. Why?
- jstanley 10y ago
  Because it's a symbol that existed before they did. Why should they have the ability to wipe the symbol out of use just because they used it for bad things?
- chipperyman573 10y ago
  The Nazis stole the symbol from a religion (I believe Hinduism, may be wrong).
  - revscat 10y ago
    Buddhism.
  - lacampbell 10y ago
    Variations of the swastika have been used in many cultures around the world, from the Far East to ancient Europe. The Nazis took it from the latter source, though it shows up in many Indian and East Asian religious contexts.
- chaosphere2112 10y ago
  Presumably a reference to the long history of the symbol prior to its appropriation by the Nazis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
- nkristoffersen 10y ago

Fizzer 10y ago

Where does your link say that swastikas are not allowed? Does a swastika "encourage or incite violence"? I'm curious since I don't ban swastikas on my site, although some of my users ask me to.

darkstar999 10y ago
It's more about reddit being able to sell ads than anything else. I'd say it falls under: > Threatens, harasses, or bullies or encourages others to do so
- cyphar 10y ago
  While some users might feel that way, I'm not sure how an image (which is a collection of pixels on a screen that has many different historical interpretations) would threaten, harass or bully someone. Or incite it. Of course, these days ad networks are hyper-sensitive about this topic, so from an advertising perspective it does make sense.
  - spike021 10y ago
    I don't want to assume you lack a connection to swastikas used as they were during the Holocaust. For me personally, my grandfather and his family were persecuted along with other family members and friends. My grandfather was even beaten by Hitler Youth, among experiencing other horrible events (Kristallnacht in particular). I wish it weren't the case but the symbol is strongly associated with the feelings from this era of time. So yes, an image (which is a collection of pixels on a screen) does feel bullying to me. Maybe it's not active bullying where someone is specifically setting out to piss me off/scare me/whatever, but it's most certainly passive bullying because unfortunately there are people who still feel very strongly about it and its use in one of the most horrible eras of history.
    - cyphar 10y ago
      While I do empathise with you (my family wasn't under fascist rule, they were under communist rule), I disagree with your way of approaching the issue. In my mind, the best way of ridding ourselves of the mistakes of the past is to stop holding their symbolism as something that should be banned. It's the same with offensive words -- by keeping them as "things you should never say" you're effectively giving them power which goes against your wishes to eradicate the power they once had. Do you think that Hitler (or Stalin, Tito, Mao, Pot) would prefer that you made fun of them and lightheartedly used the symbolism they held dear or that you feared them after the deaths of their regimes? All of that being said, I completely understand why you would feel the way you do.

ocdtrekkie 10y ago

I wonder how they decided who was a willing participant. If I was a troll, I would try to create one with as many 'innocent' pixels as possible and get people banned for placing pixels they didn't know would become a swastika.

someguy101010 10y ago

I was surprised at the lack of swastikas, curse words, and nsfw content on the canvas, but that may say more about me than anything else.

TheAdamAndChe 10y ago
There was some NSFW stuff early on. There was a communist flag on the left side, under which was the statement "bash the fash." He-Man had a rainbow in his mouth like he was giving it a blowjob for the longest time, and all the nsfw stuff suddenly disappeared at the end. I highly suspect that moderators and bots took over by the end and made it come together, and I bet it was a PR move to amplify a sense of community.
- rmccoy6435 10y ago
  Bots definitely did take over, and it's how communities left their images so preserved. A lot of subreddits had scripts they gave out to users to just run in the tab. I think this kind of ruined the joy of logging in after a few hours of being gone and seeing something completely different in an area.
- NoGravitas 10y ago
  Not sure how a communist flag (stayed on till the end, by the way) or "bash the fash" is NSFW. Unless your workplace is fascist, of course.
  - TheAdamAndChe 10y ago
    There are many corporations who find any form of violence NSFW, especially among places with overly sensitive PC culture.
najati83 10y ago
Yes, me too. Admins were fine with a hammer and a sickle and an LGBT flag, though. We all have biases, after all. ;P

Ajedi32 10y ago

Interesting. Where there actually any real instances of the admins needing to step in like that? I saw some posts early on on the subreddit where a lot of people collectively resolved to erase swastikas on sight, so I just kinda assumed that was the reason why symbols like that never stayed up for long.

Angostura 10y ago

> It's worth nothing that the admins did actively ban users trying to make swastikas. I've heard it hypothesised, but I haven't seen any evidence. Swastikas did appear and disappear again, but what makes you think this was admin action?