6 ms·

> Ford doesn't have any good ideas for the future, they are too busy with the here and now according to who? your average HN reader who basically hates cars?

> Ford doesn't have any good ideas for the future, they are too busy with the here and now according to who? your average HN reader who basically hates cars? yeah, sure. the guy who hates cars is bearish on ford, shocking. what about all the people buying raptors and gt350s and fgts and fists and fosts, hand over fist? do you even know what i'm talking about? do these insanely popular cars even register on your radar? it sounds like you're not-a-car-guy-but-a-tech-guy which makes up for a huge portion of tesla fans. and you're exposed when you make shit up like "ford doesn't innovate" or whatever your thesis is. signed, -not even a ford guy. porsche, there is no substitute.

erikpukinskis 10y ago
The kind of people who buy raptors and gt350s are a tiny fraction of the market compared to the people who just want to get to work. Tesla isn't interested in car enthusiasts, they want to be the default answer to the question "How do I get from point A to point B for $1?"
- emodendroket 10y ago
  The most popular cars are crossovers and SUVs, a segment Tesla hasn't shown any interest in so far.
  - Malice 10y ago
    http://www.theverge.com/2017/4/2/15155572/tesla-q1-production-delivery http://www.theverge.com/2017/4/2/15155572/tesla-q1-productio...
  - mee_too 10y ago
    Sure, if (your_universe == USA).
    - emodendroket 10y ago
      OK, sure, the picture becomes a lot more complex if we want to talk about international markets. Anyway the car I see in the Tesla showroom does not say "car for practical people who just want to get from point A and point B." The article claims they're selling to the kind of people who would normally buy a Porsche.
      - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        Beijing has a lot of Tesla Model S's these days, up from virtually nil a few years ago. Chalk it up to Beijing separating the plate lottery for EVs, and the people that normally buy Audi aren't going to buy a Chinese EV.
  - nicholassmith 10y ago
    The Model X is essentially their answer for an SUV/Crossover.
- aanm1988 10y ago
  Those people will just buy another Toyota. They aren't spending 35k+ on a Tesla.
- bigtimeidiot 10y ago
  >people who just want to get to work. People who "just want to get to work" aren't buying cars that start at $35,000, either.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Depends on the market. I see a lot of CLAs in LA, and they are probably paying more than $35K for them.
  - erikpukinskis 10y ago
    No, of course not. But They'll pay $0.10/mile for Tesla mobility services.
- icedchai 10y ago
  Currently, Tesla is a luxury car company. People who want to get from point A to point B buy a used Ford Focus.
- ams6110 10y ago
  Tesla isn't interested in enthusiasts? The only people buying them are enthusiasts. The pragmatic folks are still in wait-and-see mode.
paganel 10y ago
For what it's worth I'm a (European) tech-guy who would love to buy a Ford Focus RS, the only issue is that I don't have the financial means to do that. And I also love their Ranger line, both the new one and the one from the late '90s - early 2000s, whose models are cheaper than the Hilux and whose engines are just as reliable (the only issue seems to be rust, which inevitably sets in after 250-300,000km). I will also avoid buying a car connected to the Internet/which has a tablet-like dashboard for as long as I could, and I say that as a guy who has done web-programming for the last 10+ years.
seanmcdirmid 10y ago
I just bought an Acura ILX this year and I really like it (despite the reviews that it is just a luxury Civic), and I never even considered buying a Tesla. People misunderstand post car like post PC: it doesn't mean the market is going away, but merely that it is no longer growing. Therefore, WYSIWIG on earnings, because they aren't going to change dramatically. Ya, Ford might have record earnings that are slightly more than last year, but no one sees them doubling before inflation makes that happen naturally. > do you even know what i'm talking about? do these insanely popular cars even register on your radar? I have to admit, I prefer Japanese cars and would never consider buying an American brand. I found them unreliable in the past, and got burned more often than not. But I still don't see the Japanese companies pulling a Tesla in the future, they are fairly stable companies with stable market share and profits. They don't change the game. > -not even a ford guy. porsche, there is no substitute. German cars break down too much. Ya, you can get one, but after the warranty is up, you are toast. Better to lease instead.
- iamacynic 10y ago
  http://www.businessinsider.com/2016-was-a-record-breaking-year-for-global-car-sales-and-it-was-almost-entirely-driven-by-china-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/2016-was-a-record-breaking-ye... india and africa will be china in 20 years. this is the market that tesla is fighting for a fraction of, not the other way around. you're out of your mind. people like cars. people will spend an irrational amount of money on their cars. they don't give a shit if it pollutes, or kills people, or doesn't because it drives itself sometimes. the trends show this, decade after decade. guess what? teslas pollute also. how many tons of CO2 was emitted extracting all of the rare earths and other super toxic shit that makes a tesla? i'm sure tesla will be super successful. the rest of the brands aren't going anywhere either. and toyota was the first tesla. look at the prius figures. someone will do it again with electric cars. it won't just be tesla. you can't be serious if you think that.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Every year is potentially a record breaking year for profits. That's how inflation works! India and Africa are going to buy Fords? China has been really nice to Ford, it has kept them afloat while the American market tanked at home, BUT let's not delude ourselves about how Chinese JVs work. Also, China has some weird tax games going on, so its not clear where demand will eventually settle (disclaimer, I lived in Beijing for most of 2016). Other countries have and will follow similar home-grown biases. You seem to have a bullish outlook on Ford, I don't know. I don't see them as a tech company, they make cars, they always have and always will, nothing will change for them. They aren't aiming for a shot at more greatness than they already have.

erikpukinskis 10y ago

The kind of people who buy raptors and gt350s are a tiny fraction of the market compared to the people who just want to get to work. Tesla isn't interested in car enthusiasts, they want to be the default answer to the question "How do I get from point A to point B for $1?"

emodendroket 10y ago
The most popular cars are crossovers and SUVs, a segment Tesla hasn't shown any interest in so far.
- Malice 10y ago
  http://www.theverge.com/2017/4/2/15155572/tesla-q1-production-delivery http://www.theverge.com/2017/4/2/15155572/tesla-q1-productio...
- mee_too 10y ago
  Sure, if (your_universe == USA).
  - emodendroket 10y ago
    OK, sure, the picture becomes a lot more complex if we want to talk about international markets. Anyway the car I see in the Tesla showroom does not say "car for practical people who just want to get from point A and point B." The article claims they're selling to the kind of people who would normally buy a Porsche.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      Beijing has a lot of Tesla Model S's these days, up from virtually nil a few years ago. Chalk it up to Beijing separating the plate lottery for EVs, and the people that normally buy Audi aren't going to buy a Chinese EV.
- nicholassmith 10y ago
  The Model X is essentially their answer for an SUV/Crossover.
aanm1988 10y ago
Those people will just buy another Toyota. They aren't spending 35k+ on a Tesla.
bigtimeidiot 10y ago
>people who just want to get to work. People who "just want to get to work" aren't buying cars that start at $35,000, either.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Depends on the market. I see a lot of CLAs in LA, and they are probably paying more than $35K for them.
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  No, of course not. But They'll pay $0.10/mile for Tesla mobility services.
icedchai 10y ago
Currently, Tesla is a luxury car company. People who want to get from point A to point B buy a used Ford Focus.
ams6110 10y ago
Tesla isn't interested in enthusiasts? The only people buying them are enthusiasts. The pragmatic folks are still in wait-and-see mode.

paganel 10y ago

For what it's worth I'm a (European) tech-guy who would love to buy a Ford Focus RS, the only issue is that I don't have the financial means to do that. And I also love their Ranger line, both the new one and the one from the late '90s - early 2000s, whose models are cheaper than the Hilux and whose engines are just as reliable (the only issue seems to be rust, which inevitably sets in after 250-300,000km). I will also avoid buying a car connected to the Internet/which has a tablet-like dashboard for as long as I could, and I say that as a guy who has done web-programming for the last 10+ years.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago

I just bought an Acura ILX this year and I really like it (despite the reviews that it is just a luxury Civic), and I never even considered buying a Tesla. People misunderstand post car like post PC: it doesn't mean the market is going away, but merely that it is no longer growing. Therefore, WYSIWIG on earnings, because they aren't going to change dramatically. Ya, Ford might have record earnings that are slightly more than last year, but no one sees them doubling before inflation makes that happen naturally. > do you even know what i'm talking about? do these insanely popular cars even register on your radar? I have to admit, I prefer Japanese cars and would never consider buying an American brand. I found them unreliable in the past, and got burned more often than not. But I still don't see the Japanese companies pulling a Tesla in the future, they are fairly stable companies with stable market share and profits. They don't change the game. > -not even a ford guy. porsche, there is no substitute. German cars break down too much. Ya, you can get one, but after the warranty is up, you are toast. Better to lease instead.

iamacynic 10y ago
http://www.businessinsider.com/2016-was-a-record-breaking-year-for-global-car-sales-and-it-was-almost-entirely-driven-by-china-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/2016-was-a-record-breaking-ye... india and africa will be china in 20 years. this is the market that tesla is fighting for a fraction of, not the other way around. you're out of your mind. people like cars. people will spend an irrational amount of money on their cars. they don't give a shit if it pollutes, or kills people, or doesn't because it drives itself sometimes. the trends show this, decade after decade. guess what? teslas pollute also. how many tons of CO2 was emitted extracting all of the rare earths and other super toxic shit that makes a tesla? i'm sure tesla will be super successful. the rest of the brands aren't going anywhere either. and toyota was the first tesla. look at the prius figures. someone will do it again with electric cars. it won't just be tesla. you can't be serious if you think that.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Every year is potentially a record breaking year for profits. That's how inflation works! India and Africa are going to buy Fords? China has been really nice to Ford, it has kept them afloat while the American market tanked at home, BUT let's not delude ourselves about how Chinese JVs work. Also, China has some weird tax games going on, so its not clear where demand will eventually settle (disclaimer, I lived in Beijing for most of 2016). Other countries have and will follow similar home-grown biases. You seem to have a bullish outlook on Ford, I don't know. I don't see them as a tech company, they make cars, they always have and always will, nothing will change for them. They aren't aiming for a shot at more greatness than they already have.